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I looked some of books. And All of it writing that : İranian intelligentsia said for Şeyh Safiyüdin (Safi-ad-din Ardabili)patron saint of Turks (Pir-i Turk - Türklerin Piri)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.254.207.178 ( talk) 16:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Please refer to discussion of article Sheikh Zahed Gilani The phonetics Issue must be solved in General!
To Pantherarosa. The article on Kurds does not say they are the same as Persian people.
Kurds speak the mostly mutually-intelligible dialects of the Kurdish language, which is an Indo-European language of the Iranian branch. Their ethnic origins is uncertain but some sources state they are ethnically close to other Iranian groups such as the Persians and Lurs. Modern Kurds are commonly identified with the ancient Kingdom of Corduene inhabited by the Carduchi. Kurds are often classified as an Iranic ethnic group. According to the Encyclopedia of Islam, "The classification of the Kurds among the Iranian nations is based mainly on linguistic and historical data and does not prejudice the fact there is a complexity of ethnical elements incorporated in them." Grandmaster 10:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I wish to state, that Safi Al-Din is widely accepted (according to findings of relevant scholars) to have had Kurdish ancestors, such as the Kurdish Prince Firuz Shah "Zarrin Kulah". This forebearer lived however c. 300 years earlier. One can therefor not nessessarily conclude that Sheikh Safi Al-Din was of (pure) Kurdish extraction. Judging by his well recorded, more immediate ancestors, who were Persian speaking and who can definitely be regarded as Iranians, the family would appear to have been IRANIAN by then. Titles to the family's land and affiliated rights in Persian have also been recorded for several generations-before and after Safi Al-Din. The Genealogy later commissioned to be written about the Safavid family by descendants of Sheikh Safi [ [3]] , (of which I happen to hold a copy in the original diction), is written in Persian. There are also related court rulings as well as chronichal documents, preserved to this day, all written in Persian, which have been cited by Scholars, such as Monika Gronke in her habilitation DERVISCHE IM VORHOF DER MACHT. It would therefor actually make more sense to state the facts, namely that Safi Al-Din (and even his descensdants all the way down to Junayd, who married Uzun Hassan's daughter, the mother of Sheikh Isamail, who later was to be the first Safavid shah) were Iranian of Kurdish extraction or ancestry. The Kurds are nevertheless regardable as one of the Iranian people and are considered as close to Iranian/Lur ethnicity as the epitome of Iranian tribes, the Bakhtiaris. Pantherarosa 13:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Due to his User TALK Page being blocked, i find myself compelled to voice my concerns about his conduct here:
Every minute is wasted in following the escapades of User TABIB on this platform. Not only does his irate conduct insult one's intelligence, it insults the intelligence of readers seeking info on WIKIPEDIA. I have substantiated the related claims I made with dozens of sources and references (see Safavids TALK!), while he picks findings and hearsay out of context and randomly posts bits of them on the subject without reflection (here and on Safavids) While there are indeed sources referring to Safi Al-Din as Turk saint or youth, these have been proven misinformed and naive by notable scholars such as Falsafi, Minorski, Gronke and Savory (creme of scholars on the subject!). I ask User Tabib in a comparison: If some political fanatics claim that the Khojali Massacre/Genocide was an invention by Azeris or had been less dramatic then Azeris would want the world to believe, do you cite this as a verified fact, just because you read it in the Washington Post/Pravda/Times????? You are acting in exactly this fashion: You pic an unsubstantiated claim about SAFI AL-DIN out of context and irately post it here without reflection. While there are numerous well substantiated assertions by the relevant scholars that SAFI AL-DIN was indeed of Iranian/Kurdish descent, you seem to find it appropriate to actually POST unsubstantiated ones, which you have chanced upon, out of context. That, without even mentioning the universally established school of thought to the contrary.
Having conducted comprehensive studies on the subject, I wish to therefor warn all READERS: TAKE HEADE! YOU ARE FACING "REVELATIONS" BY A PERSON IGNORANT OF THIS MATTER, WHO NEVERTHELESS COMPELS HIMSELF TO CONTRIBUTE TO GROTESQUE MISINTERPRETATIONS ON THIS FORUM - TO THE DETRIMENT OF EVERYBODY SEEKING INFORMATION OR SEEKING TO PROVIDE INFORMATION! This unhelpful behaviour has been going on for a year now. Pantherarosa 12:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I removed a quote about Sheykh Safi's "mother tongue" allegedly being Taati, as there is no reference provided to such effect. Any comment with respect to ethnic or linguistic origin of a historical religious figure without supportive evidence, in form of valid reference from a historical source, shall be deemed invalid. Atabek 02:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
User:HistoryofIran The edit I did was pretty clear. The sources I gave already say what happened. You have no reason to take it back. You're deleting sources like Bartold and Petrushevsky.-- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 11:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
No. Bartold,Petrushevski, Hans Roemer, Ismail Hakkı Uzunçarşı, M. Ismail Marcinkowski, David Ayalon and many other historians say that they were Turks in origin. In the source I gave, it was clearly stated along with the evidence. You can't delete it. . [1] [2] [3]-- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 11:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I've never misused a source because this is my source [6] not Cambridge History of Iran -- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 12:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Actually, to be honest, I translated them from the Russian and Azerbaijani Wikipedia. But how can "Turkish" mean beautiful? That's impossible. Anyway, I'm sorry for my mistake. Have a good day -- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 13:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:54, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
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I looked some of books. And All of it writing that : İranian intelligentsia said for Şeyh Safiyüdin (Safi-ad-din Ardabili)patron saint of Turks (Pir-i Turk - Türklerin Piri)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.254.207.178 ( talk) 16:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Please refer to discussion of article Sheikh Zahed Gilani The phonetics Issue must be solved in General!
To Pantherarosa. The article on Kurds does not say they are the same as Persian people.
Kurds speak the mostly mutually-intelligible dialects of the Kurdish language, which is an Indo-European language of the Iranian branch. Their ethnic origins is uncertain but some sources state they are ethnically close to other Iranian groups such as the Persians and Lurs. Modern Kurds are commonly identified with the ancient Kingdom of Corduene inhabited by the Carduchi. Kurds are often classified as an Iranic ethnic group. According to the Encyclopedia of Islam, "The classification of the Kurds among the Iranian nations is based mainly on linguistic and historical data and does not prejudice the fact there is a complexity of ethnical elements incorporated in them." Grandmaster 10:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I wish to state, that Safi Al-Din is widely accepted (according to findings of relevant scholars) to have had Kurdish ancestors, such as the Kurdish Prince Firuz Shah "Zarrin Kulah". This forebearer lived however c. 300 years earlier. One can therefor not nessessarily conclude that Sheikh Safi Al-Din was of (pure) Kurdish extraction. Judging by his well recorded, more immediate ancestors, who were Persian speaking and who can definitely be regarded as Iranians, the family would appear to have been IRANIAN by then. Titles to the family's land and affiliated rights in Persian have also been recorded for several generations-before and after Safi Al-Din. The Genealogy later commissioned to be written about the Safavid family by descendants of Sheikh Safi [ [3]] , (of which I happen to hold a copy in the original diction), is written in Persian. There are also related court rulings as well as chronichal documents, preserved to this day, all written in Persian, which have been cited by Scholars, such as Monika Gronke in her habilitation DERVISCHE IM VORHOF DER MACHT. It would therefor actually make more sense to state the facts, namely that Safi Al-Din (and even his descensdants all the way down to Junayd, who married Uzun Hassan's daughter, the mother of Sheikh Isamail, who later was to be the first Safavid shah) were Iranian of Kurdish extraction or ancestry. The Kurds are nevertheless regardable as one of the Iranian people and are considered as close to Iranian/Lur ethnicity as the epitome of Iranian tribes, the Bakhtiaris. Pantherarosa 13:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Due to his User TALK Page being blocked, i find myself compelled to voice my concerns about his conduct here:
Every minute is wasted in following the escapades of User TABIB on this platform. Not only does his irate conduct insult one's intelligence, it insults the intelligence of readers seeking info on WIKIPEDIA. I have substantiated the related claims I made with dozens of sources and references (see Safavids TALK!), while he picks findings and hearsay out of context and randomly posts bits of them on the subject without reflection (here and on Safavids) While there are indeed sources referring to Safi Al-Din as Turk saint or youth, these have been proven misinformed and naive by notable scholars such as Falsafi, Minorski, Gronke and Savory (creme of scholars on the subject!). I ask User Tabib in a comparison: If some political fanatics claim that the Khojali Massacre/Genocide was an invention by Azeris or had been less dramatic then Azeris would want the world to believe, do you cite this as a verified fact, just because you read it in the Washington Post/Pravda/Times????? You are acting in exactly this fashion: You pic an unsubstantiated claim about SAFI AL-DIN out of context and irately post it here without reflection. While there are numerous well substantiated assertions by the relevant scholars that SAFI AL-DIN was indeed of Iranian/Kurdish descent, you seem to find it appropriate to actually POST unsubstantiated ones, which you have chanced upon, out of context. That, without even mentioning the universally established school of thought to the contrary.
Having conducted comprehensive studies on the subject, I wish to therefor warn all READERS: TAKE HEADE! YOU ARE FACING "REVELATIONS" BY A PERSON IGNORANT OF THIS MATTER, WHO NEVERTHELESS COMPELS HIMSELF TO CONTRIBUTE TO GROTESQUE MISINTERPRETATIONS ON THIS FORUM - TO THE DETRIMENT OF EVERYBODY SEEKING INFORMATION OR SEEKING TO PROVIDE INFORMATION! This unhelpful behaviour has been going on for a year now. Pantherarosa 12:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I removed a quote about Sheykh Safi's "mother tongue" allegedly being Taati, as there is no reference provided to such effect. Any comment with respect to ethnic or linguistic origin of a historical religious figure without supportive evidence, in form of valid reference from a historical source, shall be deemed invalid. Atabek 02:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
User:HistoryofIran The edit I did was pretty clear. The sources I gave already say what happened. You have no reason to take it back. You're deleting sources like Bartold and Petrushevsky.-- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 11:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
No. Bartold,Petrushevski, Hans Roemer, Ismail Hakkı Uzunçarşı, M. Ismail Marcinkowski, David Ayalon and many other historians say that they were Turks in origin. In the source I gave, it was clearly stated along with the evidence. You can't delete it. . [1] [2] [3]-- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 11:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I've never misused a source because this is my source [6] not Cambridge History of Iran -- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 12:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Actually, to be honest, I translated them from the Russian and Azerbaijani Wikipedia. But how can "Turkish" mean beautiful? That's impossible. Anyway, I'm sorry for my mistake. Have a good day -- 85.104.66.21 ( talk) 13:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
References
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:54, 30 June 2021 (UTC)