This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Rachel Levine article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find medical sources:  Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 180 days

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

view ·  Frequently asked questions Q: Why doesn’t this article include her former name? A: Per WP:DEADNAME: “If a living transgender or non-binary person was not notable under a former name (a deadname), it should not be included in any page (including lists, redirects, disambiguation pages, category names, templates, etc.), even in quotations, even if reliable sourcing exists. Treat the pre-notability name as a privacy interest separate from (and often greater than) the person's current name.”

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard. If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. Biography: Politics and Government / Science and Academia This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance). This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Mid-importance). Health and fitness Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Health and fitness, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of health and physical fitness related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Health and fitnessWikipedia:WikiProject Health and fitnessTemplate:WikiProject Health and fitnessHealth and fitness articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. LGBT studies: Person This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles This article is supported by the LGBT Person task force. Pennsylvania Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PennsylvaniaWikipedia:WikiProject PennsylvaniaTemplate:WikiProject PennsylvaniaPennsylvania articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. United States Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Women This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WomenWikipedia:WikiProject WomenTemplate:WikiProject WomenWikiProject Women articles Politics: American Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by American politics task force (assessed as Low-importance). Medicine Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Medicine, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the Manual of Style for medicine-related articles and that biomedical information in any article use high-quality medical sources. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.MedicineWikipedia:WikiProject MedicineTemplate:WikiProject Medicinemedicine articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Women writers Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Daily pageviews of this article A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

From: Health and Human Services Commemorating the First Openly Transgender Four-Star Officer and First Female Four-Star Admiral

To: Health and Human Services Commemorating the First Openly Transgender Four-Star Officer and First Male-to-Female Four-Star Admiral.

This is confusing because while she is a woman, she is not female by the literal definition. Without the context of male to female, it suggests she is a female from birth. Stating that she is the first female four-star general is factually inaccurate by definition and does a great disservice to literal females from birth who may hold a four-star position in the future.

I like to hold wikipedia to a high standard and expect it to be accurate. So until, or unless the definition is changed, I petition the page to make the correction for the accuracies sake

Define:female Female: adjective of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

Thank you! 2601:18D:780:4F60:8DAA:23D9:68CA:FBFA ( talk) 03:28, 20 September 2023 (UTC) reply

 Not done--the cited source says First Female Four-Star Admiral of the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, so we do too. Writ Keeper  ⚇ ♔ 04:08, 20 September 2023 (UTC) reply

Wow, so, without taking a position on the issue - just a point of clarification - is it the policy of Wikipedia to print things that are factually inaccurate as long as they are factually inaccurate in the cited source? Because that's the direct implication of the reason you gave here. 14.167.152.58 ( talk) 16:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Wikipedia doesn't publish original analysis, but rather independently verifiable information. You may think that the information published in reliable sources is "factually inaccurate" but we do not trust you to make that assessment. If this is a good-faith question, you may get something out of reading the essay WP:TRUTH. Generalrelative ( talk) 17:05, 10 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Congratulations Wikipedia you have successfully and indefinitely destroyed your credibility. 2604:3D08:D183:5500:8073:F176:3FF2:256A ( talk) 06:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC) reply

And we are heartbroken about it. Primefac ( talk) 06:54, 18 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I posted a relevant comment in this thread in response to "Generalrelative" and it was removed with the comment "Nope, not a chat room." Is this considered reasonable? This is the "Talk" page. This is where we talk. I was not "chatting" casually. I was challenging the application of this standard. Where am I supposed to talk about the content of this page if it's not allowed here? 113.166.213.203 ( talk) 07:30, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

A request was made and declined. A pointy question was then asked with the intention of trying to trick us into admitting... something... for which we did not take the bait. A ramble was then written and removed for being unnecessary. At a certain point the stick needs to be dropped, and jamie apparently felt that the stick just needed to be taken away. If you like I can formally close/hat this discussion, but either way I'm pretty sure future responses will either be ignored or removed. Primefac ( talk) 07:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC) reply

She is constantly being criticized. Someone should add a criticism section in this article. 2A01:E0A:57D:48E0:B095:1B41:B30F:2A78 ( talk) 08:43, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

All content, regardless of whether it is positive or negative, must be supported by reliable sources. If there is enough content to merit a full section, then a full section can be included. Otherwise, it will likely just be added in as a single sentence (or two). Primefac ( talk) 09:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC) reply

I added the birth name to this article in the infobox section as is standard wikipedia practice with anyone who changes their name. It was subsequently reverted, I am not sure I understand the justification for this. There is no reason to remove a birth name from an article because it is not the commonly used name of the individual. Magjozs ( talk) 01:46, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Magjozs please see MOS:DEADNAME, which not only explains our policy but speaks to this page specifically. Innisfree987 ( talk) 01:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Please also take note of the template at the top of this page that says, "Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting." Indeed this question is answered in the FAQs. Innisfree987 ( talk) 01:55, 3 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Modifying history for a political agenda tarnishes the respectability of this platform. Kyanwan ( talk) 05:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Nobody's modifying history here; we're not pretending she doesn't *have* a deadname, we're just not mentioning it, because it's both sensitive and not particularly relevant to what's covered by the article. And Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy per WP:BLP is not a political agenda. Writ Keeper  ⚇ ♔ 12:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC) reply

That's incorrect. A public official, especially one in a licensed profession, received their education under one name, worked under that name, then changed to another.

The circumstances under which they changed their legal or preferred name should not be relevant to an unbiased presentation of their history.

It creates an unnecessary layer of obfuscation for researchers trying to verify historical facts. For example, seeking documents like student records, licensure validation, or complaints about a person named Rachel who attended under <another name>. Jguttenburg ( talk) 07:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Someone looking up student records, license validation, etc will not be going to Wikipedia for that information, so I do not think your slippery slope argument really holds water. As a minor note, you copy/pasted the same line multiple times, so I have removed them (mainly for ease of reading). I also removed her deadname per our policies. Primefac ( talk) 08:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Censorship has no place in what should be a neutral source of information, even if you disagree on whether or not (Redacted) name should be disclosed as a matter of public historical record. Jguttenburg ( talk) 10:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

This is not the place to have a philosophical debate about societal topics. Primefac ( talk) 10:19, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply

I'm going to assume that that misgendering (which I have redacted) was accidental. Please take more care in future. If this tips over from kvetching into actual trolling then that will be removed per WP:NOTFORUM and may lead to warnings for disruptive editing. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 10:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC) reply