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Hi Osioni, First of all, there should be a secondary source for that information, not the industry website. If secondary sources aren't talking about where it is practiced and taught, that information fails the "notability" test. WP:Notability PI is not currently being taught in the US. There is a teacher in the US, and I emailed her to check on US trainings to make sure I wasn't missing something. She confirmed that there have not been trainings in the US recently nor upcoming, and that there simply isn't much demand in terms of students. It appears that South Africa and Mexico each have a teacher as well; the presence of a teacher means that trainings *could* happen there, not that they do. The only locations that have trainings on the calendar are in Europe. So, an appropriate revision could be: "Postural Integration is taught primarily in Europe." I did not find a list of practitioners on the site so I can't begin to say where they do or don't practise, but unless practise is highly concentrated in certain countries, it doesn't warrant mentioning. So, an alternative edit would be "Postural Integration is taught and practised primarily in Europe." These two edit proposals still are a bit weak without an external source, but I think with this more limited scope they could stand with the website as the source for now. Let me know what you think of this, and/or make a counterproposal. If I don't hear back from you, I'll make the change and we can go from there. Other editors' opinions welcome too. Source: http://www.icpit.info/calendar.php
PS. I did add a secondary source to the references for this page. If a few other editors did the same, the article would be much stronger. The heavy reliance on Painter sources makes the subject seem not notable. Let's work together to help this article stand on its own feet - otherwise it risks drawing the attention of the infamous Skeptic editors who would happily rip into it. Browse the other altmed articles to see some examples of this. -- Karinpower ( talk) 05:18, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Am inserting here Postural Integration section you deleted from your personal Talk page. Please clarify the question raised:
Hi, I followed up with the PI USA trainer representative about the picture you said was given of PI in that country because I have a relative in the States who earlier in the year told me about positive sessions or treatments he had in this method with a therapist there. So I took the liberty to ask the US trainer of PI there if PI had really faded away, quoting what you said the trainer had said who replied "I have no recollection nor record of communicating with a Karin Power or any Wikipedia representative. I don't know who she's referring to when she says "US trainer." If she did contact me under a fictitous name, I never said "that there isn't much demand in term of students". I could have said that I don't have a training planned at this time. If I don't have a training planned, I don't have to lie about it." The trainer asked me to have you contact her again for clarification. Perhaps you can kindly do this, thank you. Osioni ( talk) 12:22, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I am prepared to go with what you suggest, however my research shows that the trainers in South Africa and Mexico are certainly active trainers. Some trainers such the one you contacted in America, do pause at times as they may also have a general therapy practise with clients to attend to. However what needs to be taken into consideration is that three or four year trainings in Postural Integration or similar methods do not always run concurrently. It may take several foundation or introductory workshops to gather ten or sixteen suitable candidates for a training, which are usually quite intensive. As far as practitioners are concerned, my research estimates that over the past twenty or more years certainly two to three thousand practitioners have been certified in this method in Europe and the Americas. As with most methods in the area of alternative holistic bodywork, practitioners will seldom if ever use the methods they are certified in as the sole title of their practise. They will also have qualified in a number of complimentary methods such as NLP, Gestalt, EMDR, Aromatherapy or Hypnotherapy, so that for their portfolio of different complimentary methods, they might use for example such a title as "Practise or Practitioner for Psychodynamic Bodymind-Therapy, or for Therapeutic Deep-Bodywork", mentioning the methods in their flyer. Therefore you would have difficulty seeking practitioners who only call themselves a practitioner in Postural Integration or for Hakomi, Trager approach, Somatic Experiencing, Rosen Method Bodywork, Bioenergetic analysis or the Gerda Boyesen Method, just to mention a few of a string of methods in the field of alternative medicine, which names may mean little to the general public. But why the focus on Postural Integration? Many other methods have credentials of a similar nature (see Franklin Method, Metamorphic Technique or Vegetotherapy).
FYI, I have raised a query about this article at WP:FT/N. Alexbrn ( talk) 17:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Alexbrn, hello!! Re your unexplained and baffling edits and deletions of perfectly legitimate sourced texts. Seeing you come from an acclaimed medical background, I wonder your involvement with a physio-therapy page not related to the medical world? This is NOT a medicine method. In advance of reinstating some texts you deleted I wish to avoid an edit war. I strive in the Wikipedia towards reaching respectful consensus and compromise. I left your inclusion of an US quackery definition which, in the European world, could never apply. Nor do we call any field of body-oriented therapy “alternative medicine” as in the US. They are “Complimentary Methods” MDs here will recommend for specific ailments not requiring medical interventions. Or they practice them themselves (TCM, Ayurveda, Acupuncture etc.) some of which are covered by EU health systems. The point being, this page may not just one-sidedly reflect the US worldview. Your recently inserted led texts are nonsense, WP is NOT for Nonsense, nowhere does this method purport to “draw on energy” nor be primarily past or mother-earth oriented? All fantasy! Where are the qualified secondary ref/sources? Permissible EU secondary sourced texts may not be deleted on the ground they are “not medical”. This is not a medical method!! Let’s at least agree on that! Osioni ( talk) 00:22, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I wanted to add useful hints for studies on the topic. Why was this deleted immediately? This was the recommendation: 'There have been three published case studies about the work of postural integration in a book from scientific research of EABP.<ref>Schlage, Bernhard (2018), 3 case studys about body psychotherapy; in: Young, Courtenay (editor); The Body Psychotherapy Case Studys; Body Psychotherapy Publications, 60 Earlston Road, Stow, Scottish Borders, Scotland UK, TD1 2QT pp. 89 - 114<ref>' Oolivers ( talk) 13:57, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Hi Osioni, First of all, there should be a secondary source for that information, not the industry website. If secondary sources aren't talking about where it is practiced and taught, that information fails the "notability" test. WP:Notability PI is not currently being taught in the US. There is a teacher in the US, and I emailed her to check on US trainings to make sure I wasn't missing something. She confirmed that there have not been trainings in the US recently nor upcoming, and that there simply isn't much demand in terms of students. It appears that South Africa and Mexico each have a teacher as well; the presence of a teacher means that trainings *could* happen there, not that they do. The only locations that have trainings on the calendar are in Europe. So, an appropriate revision could be: "Postural Integration is taught primarily in Europe." I did not find a list of practitioners on the site so I can't begin to say where they do or don't practise, but unless practise is highly concentrated in certain countries, it doesn't warrant mentioning. So, an alternative edit would be "Postural Integration is taught and practised primarily in Europe." These two edit proposals still are a bit weak without an external source, but I think with this more limited scope they could stand with the website as the source for now. Let me know what you think of this, and/or make a counterproposal. If I don't hear back from you, I'll make the change and we can go from there. Other editors' opinions welcome too. Source: http://www.icpit.info/calendar.php
PS. I did add a secondary source to the references for this page. If a few other editors did the same, the article would be much stronger. The heavy reliance on Painter sources makes the subject seem not notable. Let's work together to help this article stand on its own feet - otherwise it risks drawing the attention of the infamous Skeptic editors who would happily rip into it. Browse the other altmed articles to see some examples of this. -- Karinpower ( talk) 05:18, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Am inserting here Postural Integration section you deleted from your personal Talk page. Please clarify the question raised:
Hi, I followed up with the PI USA trainer representative about the picture you said was given of PI in that country because I have a relative in the States who earlier in the year told me about positive sessions or treatments he had in this method with a therapist there. So I took the liberty to ask the US trainer of PI there if PI had really faded away, quoting what you said the trainer had said who replied "I have no recollection nor record of communicating with a Karin Power or any Wikipedia representative. I don't know who she's referring to when she says "US trainer." If she did contact me under a fictitous name, I never said "that there isn't much demand in term of students". I could have said that I don't have a training planned at this time. If I don't have a training planned, I don't have to lie about it." The trainer asked me to have you contact her again for clarification. Perhaps you can kindly do this, thank you. Osioni ( talk) 12:22, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
I am prepared to go with what you suggest, however my research shows that the trainers in South Africa and Mexico are certainly active trainers. Some trainers such the one you contacted in America, do pause at times as they may also have a general therapy practise with clients to attend to. However what needs to be taken into consideration is that three or four year trainings in Postural Integration or similar methods do not always run concurrently. It may take several foundation or introductory workshops to gather ten or sixteen suitable candidates for a training, which are usually quite intensive. As far as practitioners are concerned, my research estimates that over the past twenty or more years certainly two to three thousand practitioners have been certified in this method in Europe and the Americas. As with most methods in the area of alternative holistic bodywork, practitioners will seldom if ever use the methods they are certified in as the sole title of their practise. They will also have qualified in a number of complimentary methods such as NLP, Gestalt, EMDR, Aromatherapy or Hypnotherapy, so that for their portfolio of different complimentary methods, they might use for example such a title as "Practise or Practitioner for Psychodynamic Bodymind-Therapy, or for Therapeutic Deep-Bodywork", mentioning the methods in their flyer. Therefore you would have difficulty seeking practitioners who only call themselves a practitioner in Postural Integration or for Hakomi, Trager approach, Somatic Experiencing, Rosen Method Bodywork, Bioenergetic analysis or the Gerda Boyesen Method, just to mention a few of a string of methods in the field of alternative medicine, which names may mean little to the general public. But why the focus on Postural Integration? Many other methods have credentials of a similar nature (see Franklin Method, Metamorphic Technique or Vegetotherapy).
FYI, I have raised a query about this article at WP:FT/N. Alexbrn ( talk) 17:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Alexbrn, hello!! Re your unexplained and baffling edits and deletions of perfectly legitimate sourced texts. Seeing you come from an acclaimed medical background, I wonder your involvement with a physio-therapy page not related to the medical world? This is NOT a medicine method. In advance of reinstating some texts you deleted I wish to avoid an edit war. I strive in the Wikipedia towards reaching respectful consensus and compromise. I left your inclusion of an US quackery definition which, in the European world, could never apply. Nor do we call any field of body-oriented therapy “alternative medicine” as in the US. They are “Complimentary Methods” MDs here will recommend for specific ailments not requiring medical interventions. Or they practice them themselves (TCM, Ayurveda, Acupuncture etc.) some of which are covered by EU health systems. The point being, this page may not just one-sidedly reflect the US worldview. Your recently inserted led texts are nonsense, WP is NOT for Nonsense, nowhere does this method purport to “draw on energy” nor be primarily past or mother-earth oriented? All fantasy! Where are the qualified secondary ref/sources? Permissible EU secondary sourced texts may not be deleted on the ground they are “not medical”. This is not a medical method!! Let’s at least agree on that! Osioni ( talk) 00:22, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
I wanted to add useful hints for studies on the topic. Why was this deleted immediately? This was the recommendation: 'There have been three published case studies about the work of postural integration in a book from scientific research of EABP.<ref>Schlage, Bernhard (2018), 3 case studys about body psychotherapy; in: Young, Courtenay (editor); The Body Psychotherapy Case Studys; Body Psychotherapy Publications, 60 Earlston Road, Stow, Scottish Borders, Scotland UK, TD1 2QT pp. 89 - 114<ref>' Oolivers ( talk) 13:57, 14 June 2020 (UTC)