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The picture doesn't seem real. It appears with a lot of filters. Here I would advise to have some common representation of the gender. 37.248.224.82 ( talk) 16:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the "Family" section currently says:
"The men's rights movement claims men face disadvantages when claiming child custody, however, empirical research does not support the notion of a judicial bias against men. Mothers do have custody the majority of the time, but fathers do not seek custody the majority of the time, and custody is settled out of court."
Issue 1: Even after reading the last sentence several times, I could not understand what the ending "and custody is settled out of court" meant. I looked up the references to see if it was a typo; but from reading some of the refs I think it is referring the idea that most child custody cases are settled out of court, and therefore courts cannot have a large influence on the resulting custody. So perhaps that last sentence is better written: "Mothers do have custody the majority of the time, but fathers do not seek custody the majority of the time. Also, custody is mainly settled out of court, and therefore the attitude of courts are not the determining factor regarding custody." (This is probably not satisfactory either because of other issues below.)
Issue 2: The first sentence says "The men's rights movement claims men face disadvantages..." but then goes on to say that this is not because true because "empirical research does not support the notion of a judicial bias against men". There can other reasons for disadvantages, for example: prevailing opinions about men.
Issue 3: From looking at the refs I think that "empirical research does not support" is too strong, and it should be more like "some empirical research...".
Also, note that "research does not support X" is not the same as "research supports the non-existence of X". Which is meant?
I think there is a lot of relevant stuff in the refs, and some of it is in this paragraph, but I think it needs more work. FrankSier ( talk) 17:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
Despite current gender-neutral statutes, men's advocacy groups claim that custody decisions continue to discriminate against fathers. ... Contradictory perceptions can be traced to the imprecision of the best interest standard, anecdotal cases that have been popularized in the media, a selection bias among cases that are decided in court, the absence of reliable nonpartisan research, distortions of existing research, and implicit assumptions about which parent should get custody. Gender stereotypes that favor mothers' preferential claims to custody are not supported by research.
User:Lukewarmbeer, what's wrong with my edits? Both cis and trans men are indeed diverse in their preferred gender expressions, and fatherhood is indeed not included in Universal Declaration of Human Rights. These facts have received attention in the academic literature. I do not think that these two facts are not important. Reprarina ( talk) 11:20, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
I added more photos two men from two races why was it reverted ? -- Ernne ( talk) 16:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Why do you support a random image of a man from South Asia but do not support adding more images? not all men are South Asian and not all women are East Asians and not all humans are Thais -- Ernne ( talk) 18:54, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I remind all those here writing as if race was some obvious, certain and clear way of categorising humans, that our article Race (human categorization) says "race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning...The concept of race is foundational to racism, the belief that humans can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another...Modern scientists consider such biological essentialism obsolete." We are all human. Nobody is more a "Man" than anybody else. Let's just stop this nonsense now. HiLo48 ( talk) 22:07, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't think the image of the South Asian man bother anyone he is attractive, I'm not white but if someone added a lead photo of white man without adding men from other continents it would be criticized for lack of diversity, I suggest these 3 photos as the lead images -- Ernne ( talk) 07:22, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a photomontage or gallery of images of group members. Even if we do add those additional two images to the lead, people will find other things about the lead images to complain about (lack of Latin/Native American men, lack of Trans men, lack of fat men, lack of disabled men, etc). Some1 ( talk) 14:04, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
The article is not about ethnic groups and I do not think what they mean by similarly large human populations is sexes, I think they mean citizens by populations, three is better than one, disabled men look like healthy men and Latinos are linguistic group and can look white or black maybe we should add mythological men to the article such as Adam as the first man ? -- Ernne ( talk) 14:22, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Who wants 3 photos ?? like I said the article is not about ethnicities and I do not think what they mean by , similarly large human populations is genders disabled men look like men and Latinos can look white or black -- Ernne ( talk) 15:06, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
None of men in these 2 additional images look like me even though i added them -- Ernne ( talk) 08:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Because if someone added a lead photo of white man without adding men from other continents it would be criticized for lack of diversity, but if someone added a lead photo of man of color without adding white man it would be considered diverse and inclusive, I'm not white but everyone don't like double standards -- Ernne ( talk) 12:16, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia is American and not from your country so do not talk again about racial label if someone added a lead photo of man of European descent without adding men from other continents it would be criticized for lack of diversity and considered exclusionary but if someone added a lead photo of man of non European descent without adding man of European descent it would be considered diverse and inclusive, I'm not white/European but everyone don't like double standards -- Ernne ( talk) 10:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
So the globe to you is only South Asia? someday most users will quit Wikipedia even if we didn't apply what you call bigotry, -- Ernne ( talk) 20:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I told you even if races don't exist it doesn't mean all men have his skin color, his eye shape, his hair, diversity don't mean only people of non European descent, suddenly an additional photo of a man of European descent is bigotry and anti-diversity yet a photo of man of South Asian descent is pro-diversity and inclusive. -- Ernne ( talk) 14:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Current image is bad, looks like a AI generated image. I think having a full body nude photo is the right way here. Proposed one is on the page we have dedicated to this subject. However these headshots are not the move. LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 02:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter( WP:IMGCONTENT), or preferable to the current choice. No one thus far has endeavored to explain either of these things. – RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ ( 💬 • 📝) 04:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
That's why not white. Levivich ( talk) 00:19, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Depicting light skin tones as normative perpetuates not only racism but “colorism,” which privileges light skin over dark skin.
I support the change of the lead image to a full body image even if it was full frontal with obscured genitals, I think it is better if the lead image have obscured genitals because a lot of people in societies feel uncomfortable with the male figure. -- Ernne ( talk) 14:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
most men in the world don't go around fully naked. If images are to be representative of an average member, they should reflect that on average, men wear clothes. While the biology of men is part of the page, the page is mostly about the cultural aspects of being a man. The biology section is already illustrated by our best, most tasteful, nude anatomical diagram.As for what kind of clothes, I'm not very picky; I think we'll be constrained by what high quality full length images we have. I'd lean for something modern and simple: shirt and pants of some kind. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 02:31, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
the lead photo of the article and all the photos of men in this article should be men in modern clothing, pants with shirts or pants with jackets or suits -- Ernne ( talk) 16:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with a full frontal lead photo of a man without obscured genitals but Wikipedia is visited by people of all ages so the genitals of the man should be obscured I think a lot of people think Wikipedia is kind of family friendly at least in articles not about sex education -- Ernne ( talk) 13:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I didn't say it should be the lead image I also support a lead clothed image for the article of the man no Wikipedian would accept gratuitous nudity in articles this is not Netflix I just meant if Wikipedians decided by vote to replace the lead image with new image similar to the image of the East Asian man it should be obscured to be less gratuitous since there is secondary unobscured image of the naked Asian man I said this to vote for the new image to be less gratuitous Wikipedia is website for all people the image should be clothed but if the new lead image is going to be similar to the naked East Asian man it should be obscured because the article is not about anatomy -- Ernne ( talk) 14:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Are photos of silhouettes acceptable? a lead photo of silhouette would make the article race neutral and more neutral appearance representative of all men ( excluding weight + height) -- Ernne ( talk) 14:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I would oppose any image that even might be considered not safe for school/work. Yes, Wikipedia isn't censored but we should try to err on the side of safe for work when discussing topics that a typical person might expect to be safe for work and when such a picture has little informational value with respect to the topic. Springee ( talk) 15:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
what do you think about these photos ?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wizzard_Photoshoot.jpg /info/en/?search=File:Joonie_with_Guitar_1.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alan_Light_(2088141238).jpg
I undone one of the links (he is other man not one of these men) the photo had flip flops because most men don't wear flip flops in public and flip flops are not acceptable in most public places -- Ernne ( talk) 20:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2008-10-04_Nate_Dizo_at_Beer_Fest.jpg he is an American if you want to suggest a photo of yourself in flip flops or other Australian man then we will start a poll -- Ernne ( talk) 10:21, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
3 new replies yet none of them about my new suggested photos -- Ernne ( talk) 09:12, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
My favorite image is the man in leather jacket, dark pants with sunglasses it is cool, fashionable and masculine image and it is a complete body image does any agree with me that it should be the lead image? you asked for photo that is not upper body photo -- Ernne ( talk) 11:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
WP:NPA EvergreenFir (talk) 15:35, 8 April 2024 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why does Levivich think white person not suitable for lead image? does he want Wikipedia to be like Gemini AI? does he want the photo of female Indian pope from Gemini in the article of Pope Francis does he want photos of Asian female soldier from Gemini AI, in the article about Nazi army ? I'm not white but this some kind of discrimination against white people -- Ernne ( talk) 14:33, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
|
Prioritizing race over image quality would ruin Wikipedia, if we put an image of a person just because the person is not white then Wikipedia failed as an encyclopedia. -- Ernne ( talk) 15:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Sorry Mr.Levivich if there was an attack in my comment it was unintentional. It wasn't personal attack directed at you or anyone else. it was reply to people who prioritize race over quality/content which destroyed Gemini AI -- Ernne ( talk) 15:42, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Why does this conversation need to exist? Wikipedia is not used by aliens, everyone knows what a man looks like. The top illustration is purely decorative and has no realistic educational value so debating whether these hypothetical alien readers would be benefited more by a naked man or a white man is just silly. Dronebogus ( talk) 12:44, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
I vote for this photo [9] -- Ernne ( talk) 13:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I have no problems with the status quo lead image, but some people here do. IMO, it would be a good idea to hold a lead image RfC so that there's consensus to refer back to if the topic comes up again in the future (which I don't doubt it will). Above are some of the images that have been mentioned in this discussion. Feel free to suggest more. My preference would be to narrow the options down to 10 and for the RfC, have editors rank them (similar to how it was done at the Woman lead image RfC). Some1 ( talk) 01:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
I support the montage, dwarf men are dehumanized and seen as half men and almost the same thing with men in wheelchairs -- Ernne ( talk) 10:53, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose change, I don't see anything wrong with the current image. The vast majority of men the vast majority of the time are clothed, so the picture is true-to-life. And MOS:PEOPLEGALLERY is against collages for "large human populations", not just ethnic groups. (Maybe we need a MOS:NOGENDERGALLERIES shortcut with how often this comes up...) Lastly, the photo we have is perfectly good at representing the topic. Crossroads -talk- 22:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
I vote for E -- Ernne ( talk) 18:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
I vote for the man in a white t-shirt and glasses -- Ernne ( talk) 08:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose change I feel that pretty much all of the images are subjective given the broad nature of "man", but the current one is well lit, high quality, and has good contrast, so I don’t really see a good reason for changing it. I also think that going to an RfC is far too time consuming and not worth it due to the inherent subjectivity of the topic, but should it go to that point, I think the images listed by Some1 are fine, but perhaps use a cropped version of the Pioneer one. Dantus21 ( talk) 04:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Man article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9Auto-archiving period: 91 days |
Important Note: The most appropriate image to use at the top of this article is a highly controversial issue with many valid viewpoints. Polite discussion and negotiation of the viewpoints is welcome below as we continuously strive to find an image which best matches the current consensus. A gallery and discussion of potential lead images is available here. Please add new images there rather than on this talk page, although the image discussion is welcome here. Any image which has not shown support here will be removed. |
This
level-3 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wikipedia is not censored. Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options to not see an image. |
This article has been
mentioned by multiple media organizations:
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article was selected as the article for improvement on 31 July 2023 for a period of one week. |
The picture doesn't seem real. It appears with a lot of filters. Here I would advise to have some common representation of the gender. 37.248.224.82 ( talk) 16:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the "Family" section currently says:
"The men's rights movement claims men face disadvantages when claiming child custody, however, empirical research does not support the notion of a judicial bias against men. Mothers do have custody the majority of the time, but fathers do not seek custody the majority of the time, and custody is settled out of court."
Issue 1: Even after reading the last sentence several times, I could not understand what the ending "and custody is settled out of court" meant. I looked up the references to see if it was a typo; but from reading some of the refs I think it is referring the idea that most child custody cases are settled out of court, and therefore courts cannot have a large influence on the resulting custody. So perhaps that last sentence is better written: "Mothers do have custody the majority of the time, but fathers do not seek custody the majority of the time. Also, custody is mainly settled out of court, and therefore the attitude of courts are not the determining factor regarding custody." (This is probably not satisfactory either because of other issues below.)
Issue 2: The first sentence says "The men's rights movement claims men face disadvantages..." but then goes on to say that this is not because true because "empirical research does not support the notion of a judicial bias against men". There can other reasons for disadvantages, for example: prevailing opinions about men.
Issue 3: From looking at the refs I think that "empirical research does not support" is too strong, and it should be more like "some empirical research...".
Also, note that "research does not support X" is not the same as "research supports the non-existence of X". Which is meant?
I think there is a lot of relevant stuff in the refs, and some of it is in this paragraph, but I think it needs more work. FrankSier ( talk) 17:32, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
Despite current gender-neutral statutes, men's advocacy groups claim that custody decisions continue to discriminate against fathers. ... Contradictory perceptions can be traced to the imprecision of the best interest standard, anecdotal cases that have been popularized in the media, a selection bias among cases that are decided in court, the absence of reliable nonpartisan research, distortions of existing research, and implicit assumptions about which parent should get custody. Gender stereotypes that favor mothers' preferential claims to custody are not supported by research.
User:Lukewarmbeer, what's wrong with my edits? Both cis and trans men are indeed diverse in their preferred gender expressions, and fatherhood is indeed not included in Universal Declaration of Human Rights. These facts have received attention in the academic literature. I do not think that these two facts are not important. Reprarina ( talk) 11:20, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
I added more photos two men from two races why was it reverted ? -- Ernne ( talk) 16:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Why do you support a random image of a man from South Asia but do not support adding more images? not all men are South Asian and not all women are East Asians and not all humans are Thais -- Ernne ( talk) 18:54, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I remind all those here writing as if race was some obvious, certain and clear way of categorising humans, that our article Race (human categorization) says "race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning...The concept of race is foundational to racism, the belief that humans can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another...Modern scientists consider such biological essentialism obsolete." We are all human. Nobody is more a "Man" than anybody else. Let's just stop this nonsense now. HiLo48 ( talk) 22:07, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't think the image of the South Asian man bother anyone he is attractive, I'm not white but if someone added a lead photo of white man without adding men from other continents it would be criticized for lack of diversity, I suggest these 3 photos as the lead images -- Ernne ( talk) 07:22, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Articles about ethnic groups or similarly large human populations should not be illustrated by a photomontage or gallery of images of group members. Even if we do add those additional two images to the lead, people will find other things about the lead images to complain about (lack of Latin/Native American men, lack of Trans men, lack of fat men, lack of disabled men, etc). Some1 ( talk) 14:04, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
The article is not about ethnic groups and I do not think what they mean by similarly large human populations is sexes, I think they mean citizens by populations, three is better than one, disabled men look like healthy men and Latinos are linguistic group and can look white or black maybe we should add mythological men to the article such as Adam as the first man ? -- Ernne ( talk) 14:22, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Who wants 3 photos ?? like I said the article is not about ethnicities and I do not think what they mean by , similarly large human populations is genders disabled men look like men and Latinos can look white or black -- Ernne ( talk) 15:06, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
None of men in these 2 additional images look like me even though i added them -- Ernne ( talk) 08:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Because if someone added a lead photo of white man without adding men from other continents it would be criticized for lack of diversity, but if someone added a lead photo of man of color without adding white man it would be considered diverse and inclusive, I'm not white but everyone don't like double standards -- Ernne ( talk) 12:16, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia is American and not from your country so do not talk again about racial label if someone added a lead photo of man of European descent without adding men from other continents it would be criticized for lack of diversity and considered exclusionary but if someone added a lead photo of man of non European descent without adding man of European descent it would be considered diverse and inclusive, I'm not white/European but everyone don't like double standards -- Ernne ( talk) 10:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
So the globe to you is only South Asia? someday most users will quit Wikipedia even if we didn't apply what you call bigotry, -- Ernne ( talk) 20:16, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I told you even if races don't exist it doesn't mean all men have his skin color, his eye shape, his hair, diversity don't mean only people of non European descent, suddenly an additional photo of a man of European descent is bigotry and anti-diversity yet a photo of man of South Asian descent is pro-diversity and inclusive. -- Ernne ( talk) 14:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Current image is bad, looks like a AI generated image. I think having a full body nude photo is the right way here. Proposed one is on the page we have dedicated to this subject. However these headshots are not the move. LegalSmeagolian ( talk) 02:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter( WP:IMGCONTENT), or preferable to the current choice. No one thus far has endeavored to explain either of these things. – RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ ( 💬 • 📝) 04:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
That's why not white. Levivich ( talk) 00:19, 6 April 2024 (UTC)Depicting light skin tones as normative perpetuates not only racism but “colorism,” which privileges light skin over dark skin.
I support the change of the lead image to a full body image even if it was full frontal with obscured genitals, I think it is better if the lead image have obscured genitals because a lot of people in societies feel uncomfortable with the male figure. -- Ernne ( talk) 14:03, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
most men in the world don't go around fully naked. If images are to be representative of an average member, they should reflect that on average, men wear clothes. While the biology of men is part of the page, the page is mostly about the cultural aspects of being a man. The biology section is already illustrated by our best, most tasteful, nude anatomical diagram.As for what kind of clothes, I'm not very picky; I think we'll be constrained by what high quality full length images we have. I'd lean for something modern and simple: shirt and pants of some kind. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n! ⚓ 02:31, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
the lead photo of the article and all the photos of men in this article should be men in modern clothing, pants with shirts or pants with jackets or suits -- Ernne ( talk) 16:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with a full frontal lead photo of a man without obscured genitals but Wikipedia is visited by people of all ages so the genitals of the man should be obscured I think a lot of people think Wikipedia is kind of family friendly at least in articles not about sex education -- Ernne ( talk) 13:19, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I didn't say it should be the lead image I also support a lead clothed image for the article of the man no Wikipedian would accept gratuitous nudity in articles this is not Netflix I just meant if Wikipedians decided by vote to replace the lead image with new image similar to the image of the East Asian man it should be obscured to be less gratuitous since there is secondary unobscured image of the naked Asian man I said this to vote for the new image to be less gratuitous Wikipedia is website for all people the image should be clothed but if the new lead image is going to be similar to the naked East Asian man it should be obscured because the article is not about anatomy -- Ernne ( talk) 14:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Are photos of silhouettes acceptable? a lead photo of silhouette would make the article race neutral and more neutral appearance representative of all men ( excluding weight + height) -- Ernne ( talk) 14:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I would oppose any image that even might be considered not safe for school/work. Yes, Wikipedia isn't censored but we should try to err on the side of safe for work when discussing topics that a typical person might expect to be safe for work and when such a picture has little informational value with respect to the topic. Springee ( talk) 15:09, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
what do you think about these photos ?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wizzard_Photoshoot.jpg /info/en/?search=File:Joonie_with_Guitar_1.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Alan_Light_(2088141238).jpg
I undone one of the links (he is other man not one of these men) the photo had flip flops because most men don't wear flip flops in public and flip flops are not acceptable in most public places -- Ernne ( talk) 20:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2008-10-04_Nate_Dizo_at_Beer_Fest.jpg he is an American if you want to suggest a photo of yourself in flip flops or other Australian man then we will start a poll -- Ernne ( talk) 10:21, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
3 new replies yet none of them about my new suggested photos -- Ernne ( talk) 09:12, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
My favorite image is the man in leather jacket, dark pants with sunglasses it is cool, fashionable and masculine image and it is a complete body image does any agree with me that it should be the lead image? you asked for photo that is not upper body photo -- Ernne ( talk) 11:36, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
WP:NPA EvergreenFir (talk) 15:35, 8 April 2024 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Why does Levivich think white person not suitable for lead image? does he want Wikipedia to be like Gemini AI? does he want the photo of female Indian pope from Gemini in the article of Pope Francis does he want photos of Asian female soldier from Gemini AI, in the article about Nazi army ? I'm not white but this some kind of discrimination against white people -- Ernne ( talk) 14:33, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
|
Prioritizing race over image quality would ruin Wikipedia, if we put an image of a person just because the person is not white then Wikipedia failed as an encyclopedia. -- Ernne ( talk) 15:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Sorry Mr.Levivich if there was an attack in my comment it was unintentional. It wasn't personal attack directed at you or anyone else. it was reply to people who prioritize race over quality/content which destroyed Gemini AI -- Ernne ( talk) 15:42, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
Why does this conversation need to exist? Wikipedia is not used by aliens, everyone knows what a man looks like. The top illustration is purely decorative and has no realistic educational value so debating whether these hypothetical alien readers would be benefited more by a naked man or a white man is just silly. Dronebogus ( talk) 12:44, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
I vote for this photo [9] -- Ernne ( talk) 13:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I have no problems with the status quo lead image, but some people here do. IMO, it would be a good idea to hold a lead image RfC so that there's consensus to refer back to if the topic comes up again in the future (which I don't doubt it will). Above are some of the images that have been mentioned in this discussion. Feel free to suggest more. My preference would be to narrow the options down to 10 and for the RfC, have editors rank them (similar to how it was done at the Woman lead image RfC). Some1 ( talk) 01:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
I support the montage, dwarf men are dehumanized and seen as half men and almost the same thing with men in wheelchairs -- Ernne ( talk) 10:53, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose change, I don't see anything wrong with the current image. The vast majority of men the vast majority of the time are clothed, so the picture is true-to-life. And MOS:PEOPLEGALLERY is against collages for "large human populations", not just ethnic groups. (Maybe we need a MOS:NOGENDERGALLERIES shortcut with how often this comes up...) Lastly, the photo we have is perfectly good at representing the topic. Crossroads -talk- 22:39, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
I vote for E -- Ernne ( talk) 18:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
I vote for the man in a white t-shirt and glasses -- Ernne ( talk) 08:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Oppose change I feel that pretty much all of the images are subjective given the broad nature of "man", but the current one is well lit, high quality, and has good contrast, so I don’t really see a good reason for changing it. I also think that going to an RfC is far too time consuming and not worth it due to the inherent subjectivity of the topic, but should it go to that point, I think the images listed by Some1 are fine, but perhaps use a cropped version of the Pioneer one. Dantus21 ( talk) 04:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)