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The quote by Amundsen is borderline libelous and I don't see how it adds to the article. Not sure this follows Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons: "(...) written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone". 62.16.134.69 ( talk) 00:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
While we should verify all of our information with reliable sources, we do not have to write as they do when citing them. There is a difference between citing and quoting. This is key.
The encyclopedic voice requires that we present information in a neutral manner. "Politician" in English is usually reserved for people who run for office, have (or have had) a political office or are professional leaders of political parties. When used for people who are neither it has the weight of partisan epithet (i.e. questioning the motives of the subject). "Political activist" is a more standard neutral description for citizens active in politics but that are not running for office or are officers in a party or group.
Furthermore the claim that his popularity took a steep decline is sourced from an opinion piece in one source. Since this is an extraordinary claim, verifiability with multiple reliable sources should be done: if this is not done the sentence should be removed, or quoted and attributed to the source. For example, the fact that the Minister of Foreign Affairs for Norway is defending him patently questions the truth of the statement: I doubt such a politician would risk their career defending someone if their popularity was in decline.
There are other examples of WP:WTA and WP:WEASEL around here, and fixing them is our responsibility.
We are under no obligation to - and under NPOV/RS, we shouldn't - to write as truth whatever any writer writes around any subject. We must subject sources to verifiability in general, and when extraordinary claims are made we should exclude them unless verified. Reliance upon opinion pieces not otherwise verified by reliable sources is strongly frowned upon.
Lastly, this is a biography of a living person, a special kind of article, subject to much more strict interpretation of sources and a much more strict need for verifiability when doing assertions that can be seen as negative. Before reverting changes intended to provide neutrality and encyclopedic voice, please consider this. Thanks!-- Cerejota ( talk) 18:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
As far as the "politician"/"political activist" I don't care deeply, except that it is what the source states- politiker..lege. These are what is compared. Quotation marks would editorialize that. Gilbert has been politically active since the 70s (67 if counting when he volunteered for Isaeli service), infrequently acting as a "politican" (member of AKP (m-l), 3 periods as Troms fylkestingspolitiker for
RV, later Rødt), and has also acted as a "political activist" (for the Palestine cause), another role altogether.
[1] I see your Babel states you speak some Norwegian, and if you are committed to this I'd ask you to look more closely at the sources.
I'll remove this article off my watchlist now, having only intended to look over it during the initial DYK phase, as WPbehaviour surrounding articles of these topics grow more uncivil than what I prefer. MURGH disc. 01:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Its not a reliable secondary source: if there is a controversy, it should be covered by reliable sources, and then we can use LGF as a primary source for the criticism. WP:RS is very clear on this.
We should be careful when voicing WP:FRINGE ideas on a BLP.-- Cerejota ( talk) 19:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Mads Gilbert is a hero!
As it stands (after long-standing content was suddenly deleted), two editors now seem to insist it is either "weasel", "biased", or "BLP violation" to have a single short sentence in the introduction (among the otherwise one-sided praise) noting that Gilbert's political activism and comments have been the subject of controversy. Major controversies being that he once expressed support for terrorism against the West, specifically expressing support for the September 11 attacks, as well as being behind a number of other controversial initiatives, open conflict (from both sides) with Médecins Sans Frontières, allegations of facilitating propaganda from Hamas, and activism which resulted in a shortfall of doctors for humanitarian efforts in Afghanistan.
If the problem is it's "weasel" the solution should be to give more detailed accounts of the controversies (which I don't support as the introduction is supposed to be brief summary), and claiming that describing his own actions are "biased" or "BLP violation" doesn't make any sense. The sources that even specifically describe him as controversial are The Local/ AFP and Verdens Gang (the Guardian source is perhaps more subjective). User2534 ( talk) 21:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
I've fully protected the article for three days due to the ongoing edit war. Please try to reach a consensus for the proposed changes to the article. Mark Arsten ( talk) 21:15, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
User2534: IMO you are getting close to libel, here. Gilbert have said (like here, in 2009) that he is completely against using terror agains civilians. As to "to medically boycott entire nations": he was against having medical personnel "embedded" with Norwegian military forces in Afghanistan..which is something else. Personally, I have absolutely nothing against MSF....but it is after all, a legitimate opinion not to support them. Huldra ( talk) 21:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I think the details regarding the official reason provided by Israel from banning him from Israel should be moved to the section below, per WP:UNDUE. It is sufficiently notable to be mentioned in the introduction, in a slightly shorter form, only because it inhibits his humanitarian work in Palestine (for which he is known), but in itself being banned from entering Israel by the far right government there is not taken seriously anywhere else in the world, as they routinely ban academics or Nobel laureates who criticize them as well. I have no problem with including the fact that Israel says the reason was contact with Hamas leaders below (which is hardly considered a very strong or sensational accusation, as they are the governing party there and considering the fact that Norwegian conservative politicians also have meetings with Hamas, and having contact with Hamas is hardly considered any more controversial than meeting their Israeli counterparts in the Israeli government). Tadeusz Nowak ( talk) 08:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
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I want to accompany him to gaza Iam a qulified dentist 41.43.159.235 ( talk) 21:08, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Mads Gilbert appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 15 January 2009, and was viewed approximately 1,776 times (
disclaimer) (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The quote by Amundsen is borderline libelous and I don't see how it adds to the article. Not sure this follows Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons: "(...) written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to take sides; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone". 62.16.134.69 ( talk) 00:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
While we should verify all of our information with reliable sources, we do not have to write as they do when citing them. There is a difference between citing and quoting. This is key.
The encyclopedic voice requires that we present information in a neutral manner. "Politician" in English is usually reserved for people who run for office, have (or have had) a political office or are professional leaders of political parties. When used for people who are neither it has the weight of partisan epithet (i.e. questioning the motives of the subject). "Political activist" is a more standard neutral description for citizens active in politics but that are not running for office or are officers in a party or group.
Furthermore the claim that his popularity took a steep decline is sourced from an opinion piece in one source. Since this is an extraordinary claim, verifiability with multiple reliable sources should be done: if this is not done the sentence should be removed, or quoted and attributed to the source. For example, the fact that the Minister of Foreign Affairs for Norway is defending him patently questions the truth of the statement: I doubt such a politician would risk their career defending someone if their popularity was in decline.
There are other examples of WP:WTA and WP:WEASEL around here, and fixing them is our responsibility.
We are under no obligation to - and under NPOV/RS, we shouldn't - to write as truth whatever any writer writes around any subject. We must subject sources to verifiability in general, and when extraordinary claims are made we should exclude them unless verified. Reliance upon opinion pieces not otherwise verified by reliable sources is strongly frowned upon.
Lastly, this is a biography of a living person, a special kind of article, subject to much more strict interpretation of sources and a much more strict need for verifiability when doing assertions that can be seen as negative. Before reverting changes intended to provide neutrality and encyclopedic voice, please consider this. Thanks!-- Cerejota ( talk) 18:59, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
As far as the "politician"/"political activist" I don't care deeply, except that it is what the source states- politiker..lege. These are what is compared. Quotation marks would editorialize that. Gilbert has been politically active since the 70s (67 if counting when he volunteered for Isaeli service), infrequently acting as a "politican" (member of AKP (m-l), 3 periods as Troms fylkestingspolitiker for
RV, later Rødt), and has also acted as a "political activist" (for the Palestine cause), another role altogether.
[1] I see your Babel states you speak some Norwegian, and if you are committed to this I'd ask you to look more closely at the sources.
I'll remove this article off my watchlist now, having only intended to look over it during the initial DYK phase, as WPbehaviour surrounding articles of these topics grow more uncivil than what I prefer. MURGH disc. 01:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Its not a reliable secondary source: if there is a controversy, it should be covered by reliable sources, and then we can use LGF as a primary source for the criticism. WP:RS is very clear on this.
We should be careful when voicing WP:FRINGE ideas on a BLP.-- Cerejota ( talk) 19:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Mads Gilbert is a hero!
As it stands (after long-standing content was suddenly deleted), two editors now seem to insist it is either "weasel", "biased", or "BLP violation" to have a single short sentence in the introduction (among the otherwise one-sided praise) noting that Gilbert's political activism and comments have been the subject of controversy. Major controversies being that he once expressed support for terrorism against the West, specifically expressing support for the September 11 attacks, as well as being behind a number of other controversial initiatives, open conflict (from both sides) with Médecins Sans Frontières, allegations of facilitating propaganda from Hamas, and activism which resulted in a shortfall of doctors for humanitarian efforts in Afghanistan.
If the problem is it's "weasel" the solution should be to give more detailed accounts of the controversies (which I don't support as the introduction is supposed to be brief summary), and claiming that describing his own actions are "biased" or "BLP violation" doesn't make any sense. The sources that even specifically describe him as controversial are The Local/ AFP and Verdens Gang (the Guardian source is perhaps more subjective). User2534 ( talk) 21:59, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
I've fully protected the article for three days due to the ongoing edit war. Please try to reach a consensus for the proposed changes to the article. Mark Arsten ( talk) 21:15, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
User2534: IMO you are getting close to libel, here. Gilbert have said (like here, in 2009) that he is completely against using terror agains civilians. As to "to medically boycott entire nations": he was against having medical personnel "embedded" with Norwegian military forces in Afghanistan..which is something else. Personally, I have absolutely nothing against MSF....but it is after all, a legitimate opinion not to support them. Huldra ( talk) 21:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
I think the details regarding the official reason provided by Israel from banning him from Israel should be moved to the section below, per WP:UNDUE. It is sufficiently notable to be mentioned in the introduction, in a slightly shorter form, only because it inhibits his humanitarian work in Palestine (for which he is known), but in itself being banned from entering Israel by the far right government there is not taken seriously anywhere else in the world, as they routinely ban academics or Nobel laureates who criticize them as well. I have no problem with including the fact that Israel says the reason was contact with Hamas leaders below (which is hardly considered a very strong or sensational accusation, as they are the governing party there and considering the fact that Norwegian conservative politicians also have meetings with Hamas, and having contact with Hamas is hardly considered any more controversial than meeting their Israeli counterparts in the Israeli government). Tadeusz Nowak ( talk) 08:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mads Gilbert. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:21, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
I want to accompany him to gaza Iam a qulified dentist 41.43.159.235 ( talk) 21:08, 1 November 2023 (UTC)