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The ship is listed as having a capacity of 200 vehicles yet the text says it had 222. Was it 11% over capacity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.37.139.132 ( talk) 21:03, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I suggest that the accident be split off into a separate article, and that a summary be left in this article. The way the article is written, the nominal topic, the ship, is not the actual topic, as the accident forms the majority of the article, so would be more appropriately named as an accident article, with the ship information instead being relegated to a background section. A solution to this problem is to split off the 2014 December accident into a separate article, until everything is resolved, and see afterwards if we need to merge them together again or not. The Costa Concordia disaster is a separate article from Costa Concordia. And our Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 article is at the accident name, not the airplane name -- 65.94.40.137 ( talk) 13:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
If this ship is a total loss, is it appropriate to go to the past tense? Paul, in Saudi ( talk) 06:13, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Right now accident map is under infobox and it is disconnected from accident description section. Maybe someone more experienced with layout can do smthng with this?
-- 91.189.59.198 ( talk) 14:07, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Could someone kindly archive the Telegraph letters page with Rear Admiral John Lang's letter please? I will learn by their example! JRPG ( talk) 13:02, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
The first victim recovered is not who they said it was. The body was not recognized by the man's son, as reported on numerous Italian papers; one paper says that the person's documents also do not confirm the Greek man. "Non è lui" ( http://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2014/12/29/news/norman_-103974424/); "Giallo sul cadavere all'obitorio di Brindisi. I documenti non sono quelli di Gheorgiu Douli." ( http://www.quotidianodipuglia.it/brindisi/traghetto_nave_mare_fiamme_canale_otranto_salento_soccorsi/notizie/1089645.shtml)-- Valmataro ( talk) 15:33, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
The description and the general characteristics sections seem to differ. Spdhall ( talk) 21:31, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
There is confusion over the accurate count of persons aboard (passengers + crew). The manifest total was 478 persons, but according to BBC reports there are discrepancies between the identities of some of the survivors landed and the persons listed on the manifest, leading to a belief that the actual number aboard at the time of the fire was 499. If only 427 survivors (at the present count) have been taken off, and 11 people are dead (excluding the 2 men killed in attempts to salvage the ship, as these 2 were presumably not aboard at the time of the fire), that means only 438 are accounted for, leaving some 61 unaccounted. Even if the manifest total was correct, that still leaves 40 unaccounted. Rif Winfield ( talk) 07:53, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
There may be a problem with the statement: "A fire broke out on the car deck just before 6:00 am local time, half an hour after leaving port of Igoumenitsa, Greece, an intermediate stop, when she was 44 nautical miles (81 km) northwest of the island of Corfu, 33 nautical miles (61 km) northwest of the island of Othonoi." The maximum speed of the ferry was about 24 knots. Half an hour after leaving port she could have been only about 12 miles northwest of Corfu. RFB ( talk) 11:42, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
"A fire broke out on the car deck just before 6:00 am local time, half an hour after leaving port of Igoumenitsa, Greece, an intermediate stop, when she was 44 nautical miles (81 km) northwest of the island of Corfu, "
It would seem to be impossible for this ship to be 44 nautical miles northwest of Corfu, in only half an hour after leaving Igoumenitsa. How fast is it ? Lathamibird ( talk) 15:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi there from the Italian Wikipedia and happy new year to everyone! I wonder if somebody can help me to draft a list of the whole Greek assets alerted for the rescue attempts using this Greek sources: [1], [2]; [3]; [4]; [5]; [6]; [7]; [8]; As you can see there are files such press kit and file *.ppt to be used as valuable and useful sources from the Hellenic Coast Guard to improve the page! Than IMHO the voice should also specify that the Norman Atlantic was replacing the oldest Ierapetra L. ferry for the same route due to another fire occurred In the evening of Nov 29, 2014 [9] [10] [11]). Thank you in advance for your help. -- Nicola Romani ( talk) 22:44, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
We should know more about the cruise ship before the fire incident. How were the rooms and the cooking, for example? -- George Ho ( talk) 01:59, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 14:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
MS Norman Atlantic →
MS Norman Atlantic fire – Or
MS Norman Atlantic disaster? Which is more prominent, the ferry itself or the fire disaster of the ferry? Regardless,
extra precision is discouraged; whether the proposal is too precise is your decision. [EDIT: I'm abstaining.] --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 05:20, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
George Ho (
talk) 06:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
On the first days of February 2015, Italian newspapers are saying that 10 (dieci, not 12) persons died directly from the burning ship plus the two Albanian tugboat operators; 18 persons (not 19) are now listed as missing. The change is due to finding a body on deck 4 of the boat.
http://www.lastampa.it/2015/02/03/italia/cronache/traghetto-437lrIRaF0xqbRYvPJzXVN/premium.html
http://www.trasportoeuropa.it/index.php/home/archvio/14-marittimo/12068-trovato-un-corpo-nel-garage-della-norman-atlantic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valmataro ( talk • contribs) 19:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
NORMAN ASTURIAS [1] is also a sister ship. I made an edit but it was removed--probably my fault--I am a total novice so probably did it incorrectly. 123ert678lop — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.49.101.14 ( talk) 18:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually I gave you a link to the Google page 83.49.101.14 ( talk) 21:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
So where are we now.? How does Norman Asturias get added to "sister ships"?~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.49.101.14 ( talk) 19:15, 12 February 2015 (UTC) What is the procedure? Do I add Norman Asturias to the sister ships again and have you delete it again or what? Why are you so averse to this edit?~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.34.235.148 ( talk) 21:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
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She's being scrapped right now: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1tKWaBAXhP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.36.89.35 ( talk) 14:03, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
This page is horribly cluttered with outdated recentism, especially regarding the death toll. It seems like everyone has added the latest rumour and left the old figures in place, such that it's difficult to work out the final figure. The page is less an encyclopedia entry and more a compendium on minute-by-minute updates. It's going to take a lot of work to repair. Patrick Neylan ( talk) 16:24, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
There were 47 refrigerator trucks on board and only 44 electric hookups. 3 trucks had running generators, which is contrary to policy. One of the diesel generators created a spark which ignited a fire. A crew member deployed the drenchers for deck 3 rather than deck 4 because of a confusing numbering system, therefore there was no sprinkler system dousing the flames. The deck 4 fire raged on unimpeded and was made much worse due to strong winds from a winter storm. An "illegal Afghan immigrant" was not to blame. I believe this unsubstantiated claim should be removed because it stokes division and racism and has no merit. 2601:18D:8C81:4AE0:1847:6919:A558:8A82 ( talk) 15:57, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
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A news item involving MS Norman Atlantic was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 30 December 2014. |
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While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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The ship is listed as having a capacity of 200 vehicles yet the text says it had 222. Was it 11% over capacity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.37.139.132 ( talk) 21:03, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I suggest that the accident be split off into a separate article, and that a summary be left in this article. The way the article is written, the nominal topic, the ship, is not the actual topic, as the accident forms the majority of the article, so would be more appropriately named as an accident article, with the ship information instead being relegated to a background section. A solution to this problem is to split off the 2014 December accident into a separate article, until everything is resolved, and see afterwards if we need to merge them together again or not. The Costa Concordia disaster is a separate article from Costa Concordia. And our Indonesia AirAsia Flight 8501 article is at the accident name, not the airplane name -- 65.94.40.137 ( talk) 13:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
If this ship is a total loss, is it appropriate to go to the past tense? Paul, in Saudi ( talk) 06:13, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Right now accident map is under infobox and it is disconnected from accident description section. Maybe someone more experienced with layout can do smthng with this?
-- 91.189.59.198 ( talk) 14:07, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Could someone kindly archive the Telegraph letters page with Rear Admiral John Lang's letter please? I will learn by their example! JRPG ( talk) 13:02, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
The first victim recovered is not who they said it was. The body was not recognized by the man's son, as reported on numerous Italian papers; one paper says that the person's documents also do not confirm the Greek man. "Non è lui" ( http://bari.repubblica.it/cronaca/2014/12/29/news/norman_-103974424/); "Giallo sul cadavere all'obitorio di Brindisi. I documenti non sono quelli di Gheorgiu Douli." ( http://www.quotidianodipuglia.it/brindisi/traghetto_nave_mare_fiamme_canale_otranto_salento_soccorsi/notizie/1089645.shtml)-- Valmataro ( talk) 15:33, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
The description and the general characteristics sections seem to differ. Spdhall ( talk) 21:31, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
There is confusion over the accurate count of persons aboard (passengers + crew). The manifest total was 478 persons, but according to BBC reports there are discrepancies between the identities of some of the survivors landed and the persons listed on the manifest, leading to a belief that the actual number aboard at the time of the fire was 499. If only 427 survivors (at the present count) have been taken off, and 11 people are dead (excluding the 2 men killed in attempts to salvage the ship, as these 2 were presumably not aboard at the time of the fire), that means only 438 are accounted for, leaving some 61 unaccounted. Even if the manifest total was correct, that still leaves 40 unaccounted. Rif Winfield ( talk) 07:53, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
There may be a problem with the statement: "A fire broke out on the car deck just before 6:00 am local time, half an hour after leaving port of Igoumenitsa, Greece, an intermediate stop, when she was 44 nautical miles (81 km) northwest of the island of Corfu, 33 nautical miles (61 km) northwest of the island of Othonoi." The maximum speed of the ferry was about 24 knots. Half an hour after leaving port she could have been only about 12 miles northwest of Corfu. RFB ( talk) 11:42, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
"A fire broke out on the car deck just before 6:00 am local time, half an hour after leaving port of Igoumenitsa, Greece, an intermediate stop, when she was 44 nautical miles (81 km) northwest of the island of Corfu, "
It would seem to be impossible for this ship to be 44 nautical miles northwest of Corfu, in only half an hour after leaving Igoumenitsa. How fast is it ? Lathamibird ( talk) 15:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi there from the Italian Wikipedia and happy new year to everyone! I wonder if somebody can help me to draft a list of the whole Greek assets alerted for the rescue attempts using this Greek sources: [1], [2]; [3]; [4]; [5]; [6]; [7]; [8]; As you can see there are files such press kit and file *.ppt to be used as valuable and useful sources from the Hellenic Coast Guard to improve the page! Than IMHO the voice should also specify that the Norman Atlantic was replacing the oldest Ierapetra L. ferry for the same route due to another fire occurred In the evening of Nov 29, 2014 [9] [10] [11]). Thank you in advance for your help. -- Nicola Romani ( talk) 22:44, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
We should know more about the cruise ship before the fire incident. How were the rooms and the cooking, for example? -- George Ho ( talk) 01:59, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 14:57, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
MS Norman Atlantic →
MS Norman Atlantic fire – Or
MS Norman Atlantic disaster? Which is more prominent, the ferry itself or the fire disaster of the ferry? Regardless,
extra precision is discouraged; whether the proposal is too precise is your decision. [EDIT: I'm abstaining.] --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 05:20, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
George Ho (
talk) 06:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
On the first days of February 2015, Italian newspapers are saying that 10 (dieci, not 12) persons died directly from the burning ship plus the two Albanian tugboat operators; 18 persons (not 19) are now listed as missing. The change is due to finding a body on deck 4 of the boat.
http://www.lastampa.it/2015/02/03/italia/cronache/traghetto-437lrIRaF0xqbRYvPJzXVN/premium.html
http://www.trasportoeuropa.it/index.php/home/archvio/14-marittimo/12068-trovato-un-corpo-nel-garage-della-norman-atlantic — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valmataro ( talk • contribs) 19:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
NORMAN ASTURIAS [1] is also a sister ship. I made an edit but it was removed--probably my fault--I am a total novice so probably did it incorrectly. 123ert678lop — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.49.101.14 ( talk) 18:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually I gave you a link to the Google page 83.49.101.14 ( talk) 21:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
So where are we now.? How does Norman Asturias get added to "sister ships"?~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.49.101.14 ( talk) 19:15, 12 February 2015 (UTC) What is the procedure? Do I add Norman Asturias to the sister ships again and have you delete it again or what? Why are you so averse to this edit?~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.34.235.148 ( talk) 21:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
References
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She's being scrapped right now: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1tKWaBAXhP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.36.89.35 ( talk) 14:03, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
This page is horribly cluttered with outdated recentism, especially regarding the death toll. It seems like everyone has added the latest rumour and left the old figures in place, such that it's difficult to work out the final figure. The page is less an encyclopedia entry and more a compendium on minute-by-minute updates. It's going to take a lot of work to repair. Patrick Neylan ( talk) 16:24, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
There were 47 refrigerator trucks on board and only 44 electric hookups. 3 trucks had running generators, which is contrary to policy. One of the diesel generators created a spark which ignited a fire. A crew member deployed the drenchers for deck 3 rather than deck 4 because of a confusing numbering system, therefore there was no sprinkler system dousing the flames. The deck 4 fire raged on unimpeded and was made much worse due to strong winds from a winter storm. An "illegal Afghan immigrant" was not to blame. I believe this unsubstantiated claim should be removed because it stokes division and racism and has no merit. 2601:18D:8C81:4AE0:1847:6919:A558:8A82 ( talk) 15:57, 2 January 2023 (UTC)