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Well, yeah, and so does the article:
The vast majority of these words is plausibly, if not obviously from Dutch, not English. It's for the most part the (approximate) Dutch pronunciation in Indonesian spelling. Imaginatie > imajinasi, conservatief > konservatif, real > real … and so on. Like a myriad of other Indonesian words, these were taken from or inspired by Dutch, for obvious historical reasons. English just happened to get these words the same place where Dutch got them: Latin, French, Standard-European scientific vocabulary.
(Universitas is a latinism, like komunitas, minoritas …)
I don't read Indonesian, but the source linked superficially doesn't seem to support the claim it's given as a source for. For example, it doesn't seem to contain the word Inggris (or Inggeris).
I'm not sure what this section is intended to convey, but such as it is, it's non-sense. 2A02:8108:1100:7B71:D110:FE9A:8754:1295 ( talk) 20:01, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Are you sure that English borrowed these words from Indonesian and not Malay? According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, all of these words were first attested in English long before Indonesian came into existence, and the dictionary says these loanwords were borrowed from Malay too, not Indonesian.
Links to the etymology pages of all the aforementioned Indonesian/Malay loanwords in English: orangutan, gong, bamboo, rattan, sarong, paddy, sago, kapok, amok. -- GinormousBuildings ( talk) 09:24, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
The phrase "Bhinneka Tunggal Ika" is not in Sanskrit but in Old Javanese. Ентусиастъ ( talk) 07:50, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
@ Sgphawker: Please discuss your changes here first before reintroducing them. Much of it is unencyclopedic, poorly sourced or even incorrect (e.g. the etymology of "Indonesian" has nothing to do with "indigenous"). Davidelit and I will then show you in detail why most (if not all) of your changes are not an improvement. – Austronesier ( talk) 09:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Chipmunkdavis has reverted to the last stable version; with this revert, some constructive edits by Davidelit "fell victim", s. this version (don't mind the overblown "Examples" section with §2 of the UDHR and the OR trying-hard "colloquial" rendering).
I agree with removing the "Words" section per WP:NOTDICTIONARY; but the trimmed lede is too short, with some good information lost, so I'd prefer to keep the long-standing lede version. Thoughts? Pinging also Ckfasdf – Austronesier ( talk) 12:32, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Austronesier, this is to point out that the editor ran a whole bunch of socks and is now blocked indefinitely, though I doubt they'll stay away. Drmies ( talk) 19:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
I am a bit confused with these terms and how do we put it on the infobox as |nation=
parameter on
Template:Infobox language is only meant to be used for
official language.
Indonesian language is national language of Indonesia according to article 36 of the Indonesian constitution. However, it is official language of Indonesia per article 1 and 25 of Law No. 24/2009. Indonesian language is also one of working language of East Timor per article 159 of East Timor constitution.
I couldn't find reference that stated Indonesian language is official language in ASEAN, however there are several proposal to make Indonesian or Malay as official language of ASEAN. AFAIK, only English is declared as working language of ASEAN per article 34 of ASEAN charter.
Is there any idea to fix this issue? as I note that there are several past edit on this parameter on the infobox. Ckfasdf ( talk) 01:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
@ Sarapritil: Here's the relevant policy behind User:Davidelit's revert:
While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content [emphasis added].
Frankly, why is it relevant to compare the "popularity" of Indonesian to another arbitrarily selected language? Indonesian's position in a global ranking of FL-teaching would be a welcome addition to this article, but not the unencyclopedic extension of regional rivalries.
FWIW, your number of languages (>700) is correct. Austronesier ( talk) 10:19, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Refer to the latest edition on spelling of the Indonesian Language, whereas it was mentioned that there is new addition of digraph "eu" as mentioned here. On that reference, badan bahasa stated that " Monophthong in Indonesian language are denoted by combination vowel eu pronounced [ɘ]".
I did try to put this info on the article previously, however there are another editor who objected on this addition. Therefore, I'd like to open up discussion on how we include this new digraph into the article. Ckfasdf ( talk) 02:59, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Btw, the reference above also explained words example that uses digraph "eu", such as eurih, seudati and sadeu. All of those word are included Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia, so I believe they are part of standard Indonesian. Ckfasdf ( talk) 03:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Actually, depending on where you go, Indonesians do in fact call Indonesian with Bahasa, particularly among students from more well to do families. (This is interesting to me, but I just want to request someone share a source if they could find one on this) 125.165.110.255 ( talk) 13:11, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
Recently, I removed "Netherlands Indies Malay/Balai Pustaka Malay" on the Infobox. But Bebasnama and Austronesier, still suggest to keep it to differentiate the Malay language which eventually become Indonesian language from other Malay language which eventually become Malaysian Malay. And I am fine with that, however I still have concern on that addition since per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, infobox should present summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article. And in this case, I couldn't find any mention of either Netherlands Indies Malay or Balai Pustaka Malay on the article. It'll better if someone can also add those information into the article. Ckfasdf ( talk) 22:58, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
I question the Map of Indonesian language sphere being used in the Geographical distribution section. Where can we find the data this map is based on? It doesn't seem to remotely reflect reality. For instance, all of North America and Scandanavia are depicted as locations "where Indonesian language is seen as a business language, and is taught in some schools". My experience and knowledge is that of a layman, but that seems patently wrong to me. Certainly, "taught in some schools" can't be argued with, but except perhaps for small enclaves in metropolitan cities, I'm not aware of any areas in North America where Indonesian is routinely used as a language for conducting business. I see on 18 March 2023 it was nominated for deletion ( Commons:Deletion requests/File:Map of Indonesian language sphere - Linguistic map.png), and on 13 April 2023, for lack of any other discussion, it was kept as being "in use". Maybe it should be renominated with a more expansive criticism ("poor map"). signed, Willondon ( talk) 18:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
Sri Paduka Baginda Sultan Makhotah Sultan Maulana Muhammad Kasim Aldin/(Kasimuddin.)The 8th Successor Sultan Bulungan with wife Her majesty Puan Prinçess Sharifa Amina from Bulungan.in the unavoidable Circumstances During Confrontation/Confrantasi Late President Sukarno.Republic Indonesia the Only Son Crown Sultan was Voluntarily Exile To Kalap Tumindao,Philippines with his Wife therein,living about12 successive years with a Descendants Four Sons and One Daughter.before Going back to Bulungan Palace to Replace his Mother Rato Karsuma. 14.1.64.206 ( talk) 04:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
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Well, yeah, and so does the article:
The vast majority of these words is plausibly, if not obviously from Dutch, not English. It's for the most part the (approximate) Dutch pronunciation in Indonesian spelling. Imaginatie > imajinasi, conservatief > konservatif, real > real … and so on. Like a myriad of other Indonesian words, these were taken from or inspired by Dutch, for obvious historical reasons. English just happened to get these words the same place where Dutch got them: Latin, French, Standard-European scientific vocabulary.
(Universitas is a latinism, like komunitas, minoritas …)
I don't read Indonesian, but the source linked superficially doesn't seem to support the claim it's given as a source for. For example, it doesn't seem to contain the word Inggris (or Inggeris).
I'm not sure what this section is intended to convey, but such as it is, it's non-sense. 2A02:8108:1100:7B71:D110:FE9A:8754:1295 ( talk) 20:01, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Are you sure that English borrowed these words from Indonesian and not Malay? According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, all of these words were first attested in English long before Indonesian came into existence, and the dictionary says these loanwords were borrowed from Malay too, not Indonesian.
Links to the etymology pages of all the aforementioned Indonesian/Malay loanwords in English: orangutan, gong, bamboo, rattan, sarong, paddy, sago, kapok, amok. -- GinormousBuildings ( talk) 09:24, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
The phrase "Bhinneka Tunggal Ika" is not in Sanskrit but in Old Javanese. Ентусиастъ ( talk) 07:50, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:09, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
@ Sgphawker: Please discuss your changes here first before reintroducing them. Much of it is unencyclopedic, poorly sourced or even incorrect (e.g. the etymology of "Indonesian" has nothing to do with "indigenous"). Davidelit and I will then show you in detail why most (if not all) of your changes are not an improvement. – Austronesier ( talk) 09:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
Chipmunkdavis has reverted to the last stable version; with this revert, some constructive edits by Davidelit "fell victim", s. this version (don't mind the overblown "Examples" section with §2 of the UDHR and the OR trying-hard "colloquial" rendering).
I agree with removing the "Words" section per WP:NOTDICTIONARY; but the trimmed lede is too short, with some good information lost, so I'd prefer to keep the long-standing lede version. Thoughts? Pinging also Ckfasdf – Austronesier ( talk) 12:32, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Austronesier, this is to point out that the editor ran a whole bunch of socks and is now blocked indefinitely, though I doubt they'll stay away. Drmies ( talk) 19:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
I am a bit confused with these terms and how do we put it on the infobox as |nation=
parameter on
Template:Infobox language is only meant to be used for
official language.
Indonesian language is national language of Indonesia according to article 36 of the Indonesian constitution. However, it is official language of Indonesia per article 1 and 25 of Law No. 24/2009. Indonesian language is also one of working language of East Timor per article 159 of East Timor constitution.
I couldn't find reference that stated Indonesian language is official language in ASEAN, however there are several proposal to make Indonesian or Malay as official language of ASEAN. AFAIK, only English is declared as working language of ASEAN per article 34 of ASEAN charter.
Is there any idea to fix this issue? as I note that there are several past edit on this parameter on the infobox. Ckfasdf ( talk) 01:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
@ Sarapritil: Here's the relevant policy behind User:Davidelit's revert:
While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content [emphasis added].
Frankly, why is it relevant to compare the "popularity" of Indonesian to another arbitrarily selected language? Indonesian's position in a global ranking of FL-teaching would be a welcome addition to this article, but not the unencyclopedic extension of regional rivalries.
FWIW, your number of languages (>700) is correct. Austronesier ( talk) 10:19, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
Refer to the latest edition on spelling of the Indonesian Language, whereas it was mentioned that there is new addition of digraph "eu" as mentioned here. On that reference, badan bahasa stated that " Monophthong in Indonesian language are denoted by combination vowel eu pronounced [ɘ]".
I did try to put this info on the article previously, however there are another editor who objected on this addition. Therefore, I'd like to open up discussion on how we include this new digraph into the article. Ckfasdf ( talk) 02:59, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Btw, the reference above also explained words example that uses digraph "eu", such as eurih, seudati and sadeu. All of those word are included Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia, so I believe they are part of standard Indonesian. Ckfasdf ( talk) 03:16, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:39, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Actually, depending on where you go, Indonesians do in fact call Indonesian with Bahasa, particularly among students from more well to do families. (This is interesting to me, but I just want to request someone share a source if they could find one on this) 125.165.110.255 ( talk) 13:11, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
Recently, I removed "Netherlands Indies Malay/Balai Pustaka Malay" on the Infobox. But Bebasnama and Austronesier, still suggest to keep it to differentiate the Malay language which eventually become Indonesian language from other Malay language which eventually become Malaysian Malay. And I am fine with that, however I still have concern on that addition since per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, infobox should present summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article. And in this case, I couldn't find any mention of either Netherlands Indies Malay or Balai Pustaka Malay on the article. It'll better if someone can also add those information into the article. Ckfasdf ( talk) 22:58, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
I question the Map of Indonesian language sphere being used in the Geographical distribution section. Where can we find the data this map is based on? It doesn't seem to remotely reflect reality. For instance, all of North America and Scandanavia are depicted as locations "where Indonesian language is seen as a business language, and is taught in some schools". My experience and knowledge is that of a layman, but that seems patently wrong to me. Certainly, "taught in some schools" can't be argued with, but except perhaps for small enclaves in metropolitan cities, I'm not aware of any areas in North America where Indonesian is routinely used as a language for conducting business. I see on 18 March 2023 it was nominated for deletion ( Commons:Deletion requests/File:Map of Indonesian language sphere - Linguistic map.png), and on 13 April 2023, for lack of any other discussion, it was kept as being "in use". Maybe it should be renominated with a more expansive criticism ("poor map"). signed, Willondon ( talk) 18:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
Sri Paduka Baginda Sultan Makhotah Sultan Maulana Muhammad Kasim Aldin/(Kasimuddin.)The 8th Successor Sultan Bulungan with wife Her majesty Puan Prinçess Sharifa Amina from Bulungan.in the unavoidable Circumstances During Confrontation/Confrantasi Late President Sukarno.Republic Indonesia the Only Son Crown Sultan was Voluntarily Exile To Kalap Tumindao,Philippines with his Wife therein,living about12 successive years with a Descendants Four Sons and One Daughter.before Going back to Bulungan Palace to Replace his Mother Rato Karsuma. 14.1.64.206 ( talk) 04:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)