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Is this the same as The Persian Wars? I couldn't verify this. If so, can someone add that at the head of the article? This would really help as the LOEB edition calls it (at least it seems to be this book) The Persian Wars. Tojasonharris ( talk) 06:55, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Am I including too-much/not-enough information in the outline? My intention was twofold: (1) make it easy to find stuff later (e.g., Herodotus's description of Babylon) and (2) to give people a sense of the kind of stuff that he wrote about. Now that this project is underway, it seems to be running rather long. And my brief description don't really convey the (nutty) things that Herodotus wrote about. (Herodotus is really a collection of stories, rather than a "history" in the modern sense, and many of these stories are rather outlandish.) Feedback? Jeffrey L. Whitledge 20:16, 2004 Oct 7 (UTC)
I've a 1960 reprint of the 1954 Aubrey de Sélincourt, Penguin Classics translation. And it begins:
So exactly which version is quoted in the text? -- Fuchsia Groan 17:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there any information about the original text? I believe that there is one copy of the original text and it is in Arabic, if anybody knows can you add to this page? User:Sinanozel
I added the fact that Pactyes' fled to Cyme (Aeolis) after he was defeated by Mazares. Citation provided as (Herodotus: 1.157) based on the following direct quote:
Pactyes, when he learnt that an army was already on his tracks and near, took fright and fled to Cyme, and Mazares the Mede marched to Sardis with a detachment of Cyrus' troops. Finding Pactyes and his supporters and his supporters gone, the first thing he did was to compel the Lydians to carry out Cyrus' orders - as a result of which they altered from that moment their whole way of life; he then sent a demand to Cyme that Pactyes should be surrendered, and the men of the town decided to consult the oracle at Branchidae as to whether they should obey...The messengers returned home to report, and the citizens of Cyme were prepared in consequence to give up the wanted man. (Herodotus: 1.157)
The Histories by Herodotus is a series of books about the war between Greece and Persia during the 5th century. It is a detailed account of the men that served and the battles that were fought. I found this book on the third floor of Moody Library in the "D" section. If you go to the right it is on the aisle marked between D7-D117 on the top shelf. Patricia New ( talk) 04:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Where on earth did the connection between the books of the Histories and the nine Muses come from? Additionally, aren't the book divisions post-Herodotean? [[User:timmy] 8:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.226.89.207 ( talk)
The second paragraph of this article says: "Herodotus portrays the conflict as one between the forces of slavery (the Persians) on the one hand, and freedom (the Athenians and the confederacy of Greek city-states which united against the invaders) on the other."
This statement generalizes the "Histories" far too excessively, in my opinion. A reader who was not previously knowledgeable about the ancient world might assume from that statement that Athens and the other Greek city-states were modern liberal democracies like the United States, whereas the Persian Empire was a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany. I do not know of any passage in the "Histories" where Herodotus *explicitly* says anything quite like this; it sounds more like a modern reading and viewpoint imposed onto the work.
I believe that this sentence needs to be re-written in a more neutral tone that is not so heavily laden with modern interpretations. Maybe something along these lines: "Herodotus portrays the Greek city-states as fighting for their freedom and independence from the conquering Persian Empire." This would eliminate the metaphorical suggestion that the Greeks were "representatives" of freedom while the Persians were "representatives" of slavery.
From the way that the statement is currently written, its tone seems to imply that the Greeks were fighting for "freedom for everybody", which they were not. Ancient civilizations, including the Greek city-states and the Persian Empire, regularly practised some form of slavery (although it should be noted that ancient slavery was somewhat different from American slavery during the nineteenth century and that its practice varied widely from one ancient people to another). Athens and Sparta were, in fact, the two Greek city-states most dependent on slavery. In the ancient world, those who were already "free" were assumed to have the right to fight to maintain that freedom for themselves; therefore, the "free men" of Athens and the other Greek city-states were fighting to maintain their independence and freedom from Persian imperialism. They were not, however, fighting for "freedom" as an external, objective, and universal ideal. The Greco-Persian Wars were not waged to "spread freedom and democracy for everybody", but rather to maintain that freedom for those that already had it, i.e.: the (already) free citizens of the Greek city-states. From that statement above, a modern reader might easily be lead to believe that the Greeks fought for a "universal" ideal of freedom, but they were actually fighting for a "limited" freedom for themselves from the Persian Empire.
A (very crude) analogy might be made here to the American Revolution, in that it was also a fight for "limited" freedom from the rule of Great Britain; the American colonists were not fighting for universal freedom for every single person living in the British Empire. On the other hand, the American Civil War might be seen as a fight for universal freedom for all people living in the United States of America. In this sense, the Greco-Persian Wars were closer to the Revolution than to the Civil War. But, this article would suggest that the Greco-Persian Wars, as described by Herodotus, were fought for universal freedom for everybody.
The article should just explain what Herodotus wrote as clearly and distinctly as possible, and leave the reader to search out further studies, analyses, and interpretations of the "Histories" and the Greco-Persian Wars on his own. Metaphorical interpretations about the Greek city-states representing "freedom" and the Persian Empire representing "slavery" might belong, for instance, in a separate article on the evolution of the ideal of "freedom" throughout Western history; such an article might describe the influence and contribution of the "Histories" and the Greco-Persian Wars on the development of "freedom" in the modern West. This article here, however, should just adhere to a factual report of the ancient text by Herodotus. IonNerd ( talk) 20:12, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article on the Battle of Plataea has some great information (all cited appropriately) on Herodotus (in the section called "Sources"):
The Wikipedia article on the Greco-Persian Wars repeats the exact same information.
I think that this information is incredibly relevant to this article here and that someone should try and integrate it in. I would do it myself, but I am not a very skilled writer and editor of Wikipedia; perhaps someone with more experience at using wikis could try. IonNerd ( talk) 12:52, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Can we move the gold-digging ants section from the Herodotus page to here? -- 15lsoucy ( talk) 22:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Why does it say he wrote it from 450-420 BC, but then the small box says it was published in 440 BC?-- 192.5.215.254 ( talk) 18:17, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
The Clio speaks of the rape of a woman named "Io," whom I always took to be mortal, but this page links you to the goddess Io. Maybe that's what Herodotus meant? Well, the wikipedia page on Io the goddess says nothing about a rape. Sorry if I've just confused myself, I'm not that familiar with this stuff. Fredo699 ( talk) 15:36, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to add Henry Cary's translation from 1849. Seems to be one of the first good translations straight to English rather than from Greek to another language then to English. It is still in print, and has been referred to here ( https://muse.jhu.edu/article/591320/pdf) as being preferable to the Rawlinson, Godley, and de Selincourt versions. Here is the worldcat.org address: http://www.worldcat.org/title/herodotus-a-new-and-literal-version-from-the-text-of-baehr-with-a-geographical-and-general-index/oclc/8555525&referer=brief_results
Here is the MLA Citation: Herodotus, , Henry Cary, and Johann C. F. Bähr. Herodotus: A New and Literal Version from the Text of Baehr with a Geographical and General Index. London: Bohn, 1850. Print. [2602:306:cdaf:40e0:1c37:9211:8877:d8b3]
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Is this the same as The Persian Wars? I couldn't verify this. If so, can someone add that at the head of the article? This would really help as the LOEB edition calls it (at least it seems to be this book) The Persian Wars. Tojasonharris ( talk) 06:55, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Am I including too-much/not-enough information in the outline? My intention was twofold: (1) make it easy to find stuff later (e.g., Herodotus's description of Babylon) and (2) to give people a sense of the kind of stuff that he wrote about. Now that this project is underway, it seems to be running rather long. And my brief description don't really convey the (nutty) things that Herodotus wrote about. (Herodotus is really a collection of stories, rather than a "history" in the modern sense, and many of these stories are rather outlandish.) Feedback? Jeffrey L. Whitledge 20:16, 2004 Oct 7 (UTC)
I've a 1960 reprint of the 1954 Aubrey de Sélincourt, Penguin Classics translation. And it begins:
So exactly which version is quoted in the text? -- Fuchsia Groan 17:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Is there any information about the original text? I believe that there is one copy of the original text and it is in Arabic, if anybody knows can you add to this page? User:Sinanozel
I added the fact that Pactyes' fled to Cyme (Aeolis) after he was defeated by Mazares. Citation provided as (Herodotus: 1.157) based on the following direct quote:
Pactyes, when he learnt that an army was already on his tracks and near, took fright and fled to Cyme, and Mazares the Mede marched to Sardis with a detachment of Cyrus' troops. Finding Pactyes and his supporters and his supporters gone, the first thing he did was to compel the Lydians to carry out Cyrus' orders - as a result of which they altered from that moment their whole way of life; he then sent a demand to Cyme that Pactyes should be surrendered, and the men of the town decided to consult the oracle at Branchidae as to whether they should obey...The messengers returned home to report, and the citizens of Cyme were prepared in consequence to give up the wanted man. (Herodotus: 1.157)
The Histories by Herodotus is a series of books about the war between Greece and Persia during the 5th century. It is a detailed account of the men that served and the battles that were fought. I found this book on the third floor of Moody Library in the "D" section. If you go to the right it is on the aisle marked between D7-D117 on the top shelf. Patricia New ( talk) 04:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Where on earth did the connection between the books of the Histories and the nine Muses come from? Additionally, aren't the book divisions post-Herodotean? [[User:timmy] 8:24, 8 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.226.89.207 ( talk)
The second paragraph of this article says: "Herodotus portrays the conflict as one between the forces of slavery (the Persians) on the one hand, and freedom (the Athenians and the confederacy of Greek city-states which united against the invaders) on the other."
This statement generalizes the "Histories" far too excessively, in my opinion. A reader who was not previously knowledgeable about the ancient world might assume from that statement that Athens and the other Greek city-states were modern liberal democracies like the United States, whereas the Persian Empire was a totalitarian dictatorship like Nazi Germany. I do not know of any passage in the "Histories" where Herodotus *explicitly* says anything quite like this; it sounds more like a modern reading and viewpoint imposed onto the work.
I believe that this sentence needs to be re-written in a more neutral tone that is not so heavily laden with modern interpretations. Maybe something along these lines: "Herodotus portrays the Greek city-states as fighting for their freedom and independence from the conquering Persian Empire." This would eliminate the metaphorical suggestion that the Greeks were "representatives" of freedom while the Persians were "representatives" of slavery.
From the way that the statement is currently written, its tone seems to imply that the Greeks were fighting for "freedom for everybody", which they were not. Ancient civilizations, including the Greek city-states and the Persian Empire, regularly practised some form of slavery (although it should be noted that ancient slavery was somewhat different from American slavery during the nineteenth century and that its practice varied widely from one ancient people to another). Athens and Sparta were, in fact, the two Greek city-states most dependent on slavery. In the ancient world, those who were already "free" were assumed to have the right to fight to maintain that freedom for themselves; therefore, the "free men" of Athens and the other Greek city-states were fighting to maintain their independence and freedom from Persian imperialism. They were not, however, fighting for "freedom" as an external, objective, and universal ideal. The Greco-Persian Wars were not waged to "spread freedom and democracy for everybody", but rather to maintain that freedom for those that already had it, i.e.: the (already) free citizens of the Greek city-states. From that statement above, a modern reader might easily be lead to believe that the Greeks fought for a "universal" ideal of freedom, but they were actually fighting for a "limited" freedom for themselves from the Persian Empire.
A (very crude) analogy might be made here to the American Revolution, in that it was also a fight for "limited" freedom from the rule of Great Britain; the American colonists were not fighting for universal freedom for every single person living in the British Empire. On the other hand, the American Civil War might be seen as a fight for universal freedom for all people living in the United States of America. In this sense, the Greco-Persian Wars were closer to the Revolution than to the Civil War. But, this article would suggest that the Greco-Persian Wars, as described by Herodotus, were fought for universal freedom for everybody.
The article should just explain what Herodotus wrote as clearly and distinctly as possible, and leave the reader to search out further studies, analyses, and interpretations of the "Histories" and the Greco-Persian Wars on his own. Metaphorical interpretations about the Greek city-states representing "freedom" and the Persian Empire representing "slavery" might belong, for instance, in a separate article on the evolution of the ideal of "freedom" throughout Western history; such an article might describe the influence and contribution of the "Histories" and the Greco-Persian Wars on the development of "freedom" in the modern West. This article here, however, should just adhere to a factual report of the ancient text by Herodotus. IonNerd ( talk) 20:12, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
The Wikipedia article on the Battle of Plataea has some great information (all cited appropriately) on Herodotus (in the section called "Sources"):
The Wikipedia article on the Greco-Persian Wars repeats the exact same information.
I think that this information is incredibly relevant to this article here and that someone should try and integrate it in. I would do it myself, but I am not a very skilled writer and editor of Wikipedia; perhaps someone with more experience at using wikis could try. IonNerd ( talk) 12:52, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
Can we move the gold-digging ants section from the Herodotus page to here? -- 15lsoucy ( talk) 22:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Why does it say he wrote it from 450-420 BC, but then the small box says it was published in 440 BC?-- 192.5.215.254 ( talk) 18:17, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
The Clio speaks of the rape of a woman named "Io," whom I always took to be mortal, but this page links you to the goddess Io. Maybe that's what Herodotus meant? Well, the wikipedia page on Io the goddess says nothing about a rape. Sorry if I've just confused myself, I'm not that familiar with this stuff. Fredo699 ( talk) 15:36, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I'd like to add Henry Cary's translation from 1849. Seems to be one of the first good translations straight to English rather than from Greek to another language then to English. It is still in print, and has been referred to here ( https://muse.jhu.edu/article/591320/pdf) as being preferable to the Rawlinson, Godley, and de Selincourt versions. Here is the worldcat.org address: http://www.worldcat.org/title/herodotus-a-new-and-literal-version-from-the-text-of-baehr-with-a-geographical-and-general-index/oclc/8555525&referer=brief_results
Here is the MLA Citation: Herodotus, , Henry Cary, and Johann C. F. Bähr. Herodotus: A New and Literal Version from the Text of Baehr with a Geographical and General Index. London: Bohn, 1850. Print. [2602:306:cdaf:40e0:1c37:9211:8877:d8b3]