A fact from Herschel Prins appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 September 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that criminologist Herschel Prins found in 1993 that young black men at
Broadmoor Hospital were often stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 06:16, 3 September 2021 (UTC)reply
Overall: Article is new enough, long enough and sourced. qpq has been provided, and Earwig is only picking up false positives. The hook is not quite ready, because quoting the title of his report without context might imply to readers that Prins was racist. In reality, the article explains that he actually refuted the idea that young black men were dangerous, and his report found that they were mistreated due to systemic racism. I think it would be better to go with a hook that is less misleading about Prins and the nature of his work, just in case people don't read the article.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 22:52, 6 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I don't think that we are responsble for the reactions of those who don't bother to read the article, and there is already a clear implication in the hook that he didn't think that, but perhaps there is an alternative form of words.
Philafrenzy (
talk) 23:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)reply
It might come down to a slight tweak which is probably worth the effort. I do think that we're a bit responsible for making sure that the hooks are accurate-ish, since the rules do say to be careful not to misstate the content. What do you think of ALT1@
Philafrenzy:?
BuySomeApples (
talk) 00:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT1:... that criminologist Herschel Prins questioned the idea that young Afro-Caribbean men were "big, black and dangerous" during his inquiry into the deaths of black patients at
Broadmoor Hospital?BuySomeApples (
talk) 00:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT2:... that criminologist Herschel Prins incorporated the subtitle "big, black and dangerous" in his report title, to reflect the racist labelling that allowed young black men at
Broadmoor Hospital to be restrained rather than receive treatment?[1]
ALT3:... that criminologist Herschel Prins's inquiry into the treatment of young black men by the British criminal justice system found that at Broadmoor Hospital they were often stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?Philafrenzy (
talk) 18:32, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Whispyhistory: both those hooks are great! They each run over the 200 character limit, so I trimmed down ALT3 below, let me know what you think.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 06:52, 9 August 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT3b:... that criminologist Herschel Prins's inquiry into the treatment of black men by the British criminal justice system found that at
Broadmoor Hospital they were stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?BuySomeApples (
talk) 06:52, 9 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Alt3b needs approval by a different editor.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 19:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)reply
This is only a comment and not a review, but ALT3b is 199 characters and thus I would highly suggest shortening it somehow (perhaps by removing the mention of the hospital?).
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 03:21, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
We are in danger of making his specific finding into a general finding. I see "young" has been dropped already in 3b from my 3. I don't think we should drop the hospital name either and it needs the year to be fair to the hospital as things may and probably have changed. How about:
ALT3c:... that in 1994, criminologist Herschel Prins found that at
Broadmoor Hospital, young black men were often stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?
Philafrenzy (
talk) 08:47, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes @
Narutolovehinata5:! I just wasn't sure if I could approve a hook that I proposed or significantly edited.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 07:04, 25 August 2021 (UTC)reply
BuySomeApples, I think you're correct to call for an uninvolved reviewer to approve ALT3c given your participation in the previous hook iterations.
New reviewer needed for ALT3c hook. Many thanks.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 02:05, 26 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I'll approve the hook—it is interesting, cited, and an accurate representation of how the quote was used.
theleekycauldron (
talk •
contribs) (
they/them) 04:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)reply
A fact from Herschel Prins appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 September 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that criminologist Herschel Prins found in 1993 that young black men at
Broadmoor Hospital were often stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Psychology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Psychology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PsychologyWikipedia:WikiProject PsychologyTemplate:WikiProject Psychologypsychology articles
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk) 06:16, 3 September 2021 (UTC)reply
Overall: Article is new enough, long enough and sourced. qpq has been provided, and Earwig is only picking up false positives. The hook is not quite ready, because quoting the title of his report without context might imply to readers that Prins was racist. In reality, the article explains that he actually refuted the idea that young black men were dangerous, and his report found that they were mistreated due to systemic racism. I think it would be better to go with a hook that is less misleading about Prins and the nature of his work, just in case people don't read the article.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 22:52, 6 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks, I don't think that we are responsble for the reactions of those who don't bother to read the article, and there is already a clear implication in the hook that he didn't think that, but perhaps there is an alternative form of words.
Philafrenzy (
talk) 23:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)reply
It might come down to a slight tweak which is probably worth the effort. I do think that we're a bit responsible for making sure that the hooks are accurate-ish, since the rules do say to be careful not to misstate the content. What do you think of ALT1@
Philafrenzy:?
BuySomeApples (
talk) 00:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT1:... that criminologist Herschel Prins questioned the idea that young Afro-Caribbean men were "big, black and dangerous" during his inquiry into the deaths of black patients at
Broadmoor Hospital?BuySomeApples (
talk) 00:20, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT2:... that criminologist Herschel Prins incorporated the subtitle "big, black and dangerous" in his report title, to reflect the racist labelling that allowed young black men at
Broadmoor Hospital to be restrained rather than receive treatment?[1]
ALT3:... that criminologist Herschel Prins's inquiry into the treatment of young black men by the British criminal justice system found that at Broadmoor Hospital they were often stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?Philafrenzy (
talk) 18:32, 7 August 2021 (UTC)reply
@
Whispyhistory: both those hooks are great! They each run over the 200 character limit, so I trimmed down ALT3 below, let me know what you think.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 06:52, 9 August 2021 (UTC)reply
ALT3b:... that criminologist Herschel Prins's inquiry into the treatment of black men by the British criminal justice system found that at
Broadmoor Hospital they were stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?BuySomeApples (
talk) 06:52, 9 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Alt3b needs approval by a different editor.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 19:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)reply
This is only a comment and not a review, but ALT3b is 199 characters and thus I would highly suggest shortening it somehow (perhaps by removing the mention of the hospital?).
Narutolovehinata5 (
talk ·
contributions) 03:21, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
We are in danger of making his specific finding into a general finding. I see "young" has been dropped already in 3b from my 3. I don't think we should drop the hospital name either and it needs the year to be fair to the hospital as things may and probably have changed. How about:
ALT3c:... that in 1994, criminologist Herschel Prins found that at
Broadmoor Hospital, young black men were often stereotyped as "big, black and dangerous"?
Philafrenzy (
talk) 08:47, 23 August 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes @
Narutolovehinata5:! I just wasn't sure if I could approve a hook that I proposed or significantly edited.
BuySomeApples (
talk) 07:04, 25 August 2021 (UTC)reply
BuySomeApples, I think you're correct to call for an uninvolved reviewer to approve ALT3c given your participation in the previous hook iterations.
New reviewer needed for ALT3c hook. Many thanks.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 02:05, 26 August 2021 (UTC)reply
I'll approve the hook—it is interesting, cited, and an accurate representation of how the quote was used.
theleekycauldron (
talk •
contribs) (
they/them) 04:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)reply