This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This under the section Greece calls Eleutheria e Thanatos (in big bold letters) a "national slogan" (it's the bloody title of the book). It's secondary since it gives the Greek embassy as a source (thas verifying the original propagator of the idea that it is a "national slogan")
If what User:Future Perfect at Sunrise is doing here is not disruptive editing, then what is it? 87.249.103.246 ( talk) 08:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Why not delete the "Independence from the Ottoman Empire 25 March 1821" information too? That is not in any official document — it is only the official date of celebration — (some fringe theories actually claim it was the 24th). And also no one has found a non-tertiary source that "Greece drives on the right"; that info has remained unsourced for ages (sic). It just happens that 99% of Greeks will tell you that is by tradition. Unless we can source that with secondary sources or Greek legislation, we should remove it? Shadowmorph ^"^ 08:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Greece only has an official "εθνόσημο": http://www.presidency.gr/en/ethnoshmo.htm (ethnosemo, English:national emblem). There is no such thing as an official current "Coat of Arms of Greece" (the page redirects to National emblem of Greece). The designation "coat of arms" in the infobox is factually wrong. Shadowmorph ^"^ 09:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
The Hymn to Liberty is not the official national anthem. Only the first two verses of it is the national anthem: http://www.presidency.gr/en/ethn_Ymnos.htm. In order for the infobox to go in accordance with official information it should read: National Anthem: the first two verses of the Hymn to Liberty. Shadowmorph ^"^ 09:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
According to above discussions, the following edits were requested by one or more editors:
(<)Comment about #1: In the absense of sources that you would describe as secondary there is nothing against using tertiary sources until we can do better. Only they would have to be verifiable and reliable sources) like the European Parliament source and vexillology sources like Flags of the World (and some books), I believe. Anyway the discussion is found above. It's on any admin's discretion to assess it Shadowmorph ^"^ 23:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Thx, Taivo, I will need that in the future when we will again talk about consensus! GK1973 ( talk) 13:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I have reviewed the requests and assessed the consensus for them on this page.
Regards, — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 22:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Ambassade de Grèce Greek Embassy at France official site:
Maxime du pays : « La Liberté ou la Mort ». (it's near the bottom before section "Institution", or Ctrl-F to find it)
Everytime a source was provided, some reason was made up to disregard it. Even after all that orgy of evidence about being a traditional motto.... Now can we include the motto??? Or is there any more work requested by me? The info is verifiable. The Greek embassy is primary or secondary, reliable and official. So it's all good. In case you wonder, I found it in Quid's sources. Shadowmorph ^"^ 06:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Embajada de Grecia en Madrid Greek Embassy at Spain:
the motto is explanatory inscribed on the flag. Shadowmorph ^"^
The GREEK EMBASSIES are foreign sources!!!???? Something is definitely wrong with us.... GK1973 ( talk) 14:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a "foreign" source:
ERT: http://news.ert.gr/el/21953-ellada.htm "Ελλάδα ... σύνθημα: 'Ελευθερία ή Θάνατος'", English:"Greece ... motto: 'Freedom or Death'" Shadowmorph ^"^ 18:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I still don't get it... it's in the European Parliament web site, in the Greek army site, in the Greek school books in many other sources too and believe me if any of you will ask the Greek people "what is your national motto?" 99% will say "Freedom or Death" (it's something we learn in school and the motto we know when we celebrate our independence day)... still we need to find a reliable source. I really don't get it! Perhaps we have to make the Greek Prime minister to state on CNN that Greece's national motto is "Freedom or Death" and to sign on a reaaaaally big paper, with reaaaally big letters (just in case) to be valid :p It's the last time i write for this issue and that's because i really don't care if Wikipedia will write or not what the 11 millions of Greeks already know. It's obvious to me that some people for an unknown reason to me don't want it -- xvvx ( talk) 01:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Attention All Editors: Please peruse/follow this in order to learn how the Wikipedia rules are formulated and implemented over time. This has a nexus to the current (non-ending) discussion, if you can understand the inner (I mean the inner-inner) workings of Wikipedia policies, the free encyclopedia. Esem0 ( talk) 03:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Already in protection. Is it forbidden to edit in the article?..... --— Ioannes Tzimiskes Talk 13:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't forget the text in the map in any proposal for "sectional" protection. While not as sure a method of protection as total protection, it would at least keep the most rabid edit warriors at bay (Shadowmorph, you're not one of those). But if a consensus on the current text could be hammered out.... But that's probably just a pipe dream. ( Taivo ( talk) 13:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC))
I have no intention to change it and really can't understand the logic about locking an article 2 months already (and with no final date in sight) because of two words! Moreover shadowmorph had a point by saying that the Republic's article is unprotected while also pending on the arbcom decision and i don't see any case of serious vandalism. The whole thing about the name dispute and how it was handled (for the core issue maybe surprisingly enough for you my objections are less) by members of the community towards greek editors is in my opinion unfair. Wikipedia has certain procedures and i feel they were multiply abused. --— Ioannes Tzimiskes Talk 17:41, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Following the conclusion of the Arbcom case, a new centralised discussion for Macedonia-related naming issues is now being opened at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Macedonia. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I move that the credibility of the above page is in serious doubt, considering the relevant history of the user who started it, and the bias of certain observations on it, as well as that user's inappropriate - to say the least - language towards a good number of users who have contgributed to this topic. Let it RIP. Politis ( talk) 17:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
There needs to be a correction. Republic of Macedonia is listed as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and not just Republic of Macedonia. Since there is already a state called Macedonia which is in Greece this need to be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.91.5.101 ( talk) 07:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest placing the term 'Republic of Macedonia' in this article in quotation marks until the name issue is resolved, like so, "Republic of Macedonia". Any feedback on the suggestion? (please, I most kindly propose no comment be made from FPS since I am in no mood for rude, dismissive or abrupt remarks, I suggest some users need to learn the difference when editors - such as myself - make a suggestion on the talk page or make a direct edit on the article). Politis ( talk) 16:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
The Centralized discussion set up to decide on a comprehensive naming convention about Macedonia-related naming practices is now inviting comments on a number of competing proposals from the community. Please register your opinions on the RfC subpages 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. (Page 5 deals with the conventions most directly affecting this article.)
Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Just a note about the language "Macedonian" which by some linguists is identified as a dialect of Bulgarian (a Slavic language) some linguists identify it as Serbo-Croatian ( also a Slavic language) therefore is extremely confusing and does not comply with history as we know it. Since the Slavic people did not come to occupy the Balkan penninsula until a thousand years after the death of Alexander the Great of Macedon how can a Slavic language be termed "Macedonian?" It's like Papua New Guinea claiming they have changed their ethnicity to Queenslanders and changing their country's name to Queensland and naming their language as Queenslandish! I find this an usurpation and falsification of Greek history and territory and a gross miscarriage of truth and justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.9.241 ( talk) 11:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
There is a missing section explaining that Hellas means THE LAND OF LIGHT and implies that the rest of territories were submerged into intellectual darkness/barbarism. 87.219.85.254 ( talk) 00:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
We've missed out the fact that Ancient Greece (?) invented fire, light, oxygen and everything else.
On a more serious note, the lead reads like an advertisement for visiting Greece.
Firstly, Western drama was made famous by Shakespeare more so than by Ancient Greece.
Mathematical principles where articulated in the East as were major scientific discoveries which facilitated later Western advancements. The claim to being the birthplace for political science is equally disputable. This needs to be fixed, methinks, Interestedinfairness ( talk) 20:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Since the article is protected, I make a comment here. In the sports section, it is stated that the national soccer team is currently ranked 20th, which is not valid (it was true sometime in 2007, when this was posted) - current rank is 11th. Since FIFA ranking changes continuously, either somebody should regularly update this paragraph, or - perhaps better - takes off entirely the ranking info and simply provides link to the FIFA ranking site. Skartsis ( talk) 07:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
The segment on ancient Greek philosophy is somewhat limited, esp. the section dealing with the Presocratics. A more apt name(though 'Presocratics' is a name still being used), would be the Materialist Philosophers of Ionia, the region now known as the southwestern coast of Turkey, (the part of Turkey facing Greece, right across from the island of Rhodes). The term "materialist" is a philosophical term referring to a branch of philosophy advocating that matter precedes spirit. Most notable philosophers of Ioania were three, namely: Thales, Anaximandros, (or Anaximander), and Anaximenis. All three believed that life originated from either, water, air, soil, fire, or from all four substances taken together. They all came from the then known Ionian city states of Miletus, and Alikarnassus (modern day Turkish town of Bodrum). Their ideas were kept alive by such other later day philosophers as Heraclitus (all is in a state of flow - ΤΑ ΠΑΝΤΑ ΡΕΙ), Epicurus, and Democritus, the father of the atomic theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.132.118.239 ( talk) 18:53, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
The map that you have in this article indicates the FYROM as republic of "macedonia" Since Greece has not accepted this name for FYROM it is not right to have this map here. Please change or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.205.213 ( talk) 13:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I dont say that you must change it with a map that contains the name FYROM but you should remove the map due to the decision of Greece for the name. And i dont want a battle just this map removed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
79.107.238.152 (
talk) 11:02, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Vampires are real because i have seen one in calacary in 1996.i think is good to put some photos of famous greeks ,such as theodorakis and callas in the field of music,
for example http://www.os3.gr/arhive_afieromata/videothiki/theodorakis4.jpg Greco22 ( talk) 18:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I ve made some chenges.I added some new photographs which i belive thy are more characteristics Greco22 ( talk) 16:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
actually is not a characteristic photo of greek tourism,when somebody thinks about greek tourism doesnt think the loutraki beach!!!
the picture is about a typical greek island where is the main interest from tourists!
if u want we can put a explanation under the photo or search for another!thanku
Greco22 (
talk) 22:07, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
On 19:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC), Greece is socialist to present due to a new leader in power named George Papandreou Jr.
Please update the info.
Sereniama ( talk) 19:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Riiiight... and Cyprus is a People's Republic. -- JokerXtreme ( talk) 14:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
That new map on the infobox must be updated, because its wrong. It does not show the Aegean Islands of Greece! 77.83.191.156 ( talk) 12:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for that! I think that it would be great if you could complete your nice job and add corfu as well as cyclades islands, as well as sporades. Thanks! 77.83.191.156 ( talk) 15:56, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Why? I want to know why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.71.36.132 ( talk) 13:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
03:02, 17 June 2009 J.delanoy (talk | contribs) changed protection level of Greece [edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=sysop] (indefinite) (Excessive vandalism: sigh) (hist) -- JokerXtreme ( talk) 18:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
What? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
83.212.41.168 (
talk) 18:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Greece as the country of greek - greek: from the old Turkish slang word greco meaning slave the Hellenic community chose this name in order never forget(or forgive) the time their nation was under their cruel hold.
The original name Hellas (the h is mute) is the most proper name of their nation that they mostly prefer over the others, in the extend you can very easily earn ones of them respect by showing the respect calling them Hellenic (the h is mute)
-thrust me I am from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.200.205 ( talk) 14:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
On the infobox, Ranking for GDP per capita and GDP per capita (nominal)should change to 25th and 26th respectively and include the new vaules for 2009 according to IMF. 82.68.83.147 ( talk) 15:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Greece as the country of greek - greek: from the old Turkish slang word greco meaning slave the Hellenic community chose this name in order never forget(or forgive) the time their nation was under their cruel hold.
The original name Hellas (the h is mute) is the most proper name of their nation that they mostly prefer over the others, in the extend you can very easily earn ones of them respect by showing the respect calling them Hellenic (the h is mute)
-thrust me I am from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.200.205 ( talk) 14:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
On the infobox, Ranking for GDP per capita and GDP per capita (nominal)should change to 25th and 26th respectively and include the new vaules for 2009 according to IMF. 82.68.83.147 ( talk) 15:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Athenean, do you have any explanation for this revert, other than "nice try"?
I simply reverted a POV pushing nationalistic edit which contained unsourced speculations against Turkey and added a {{failed verification|date=March 2010}} to the ref which does not support what was being written on that sentence.
Oh, and one more thing, this is English WP, so Constantinople -> Istanbul.
Thank you. kedadial 01:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Currently the national language links to the broad and more ancient Greek and not the Modern Greek page, which is the national language of Greece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glaenia ( talk • contribs) 21:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The first paragraph in the History section of the article starts with "Greece was the first area in Europe where advanced early civilizations emerged". This phrase is very bold and I would say untrue. Every civilization is based on previous advancements and to call a civilization the first would be inappropriate. Are we implying something about the Thracian? What do you mean by Greece as an area of advanced civilization? Was there any Greece at that time?
Therefore instead of:
Greece was the first area in Europe where advanced early civilizations emerged, beginning with the Minoan civilization in Crete and then the Mycenean (note the typo) civilization on the mainland.
I propose:
Some of the early advanced European civilizations emerged in modern day Greece, beginning with the Minoan civilization in Crete and later the Mycenaean civilization on the mainland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.26.79.18 ( talk) 09:09, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion, the only good part of this edit is that the Cycladic civilization was added. On the other hand, I cannot see what's the point of it and the argument of A.Kamburov. Actually, "But although today for most of the Western world it is "common knowledge" that everything started from Greece, maybe tomorrow we'll include the other pieces of the puzzle and discover a more colorful image" isn't an argument to base on your changes on a stable version of this sentence. A good argument could be if this editor could provide to us some earlier advanced civilizations in Europe than the Cycladic, the Minoan and the Mycenaean. I'm against this change too. - Sthenel ( talk) 21:09, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Using other Wikipedia articles as an argument is one of my favorite mistakes to watch. What other advanced civilzations were there in the Balkans beside the Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenean (please, please, do not tell me the Thracians)? All the early advanced civilizations in Europe evolved on the territory of what is now Greece. There is nothing incorrect or inappropriate about that statement. Therefore I don't see any reason to change the relevant passage in the history section. You and your sources have proven absolutely nothing. Athenean ( talk) 07:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
It is important to mention that Greece according to the World Meterological Organisation hold the official highest temperature record in Europe with 48.0C recorded in Athens.Please see Athens article for reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.76.107 ( talk) 21:07, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't wish to comment on the argument about Greece as a pseudo-primordial civilisation. I haven't read the thread and I suspect both sides have a point about wording.
But the opening six paragraphs of the history section seem to me an excellent and intriguing introduction to the subject. Bravo, Greece editors, and thank you! Robertbyrne ( talk) 03:50, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Needs Section on Current Economic Crisis
75.166.179.110 ( talk) 00:53, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand why editors do not want to include the greece bankruptcy. I now people say wiki isn't the news, but this has been going on for nearly a year, it's just now that it's been advertised and made present to the public. Dates saying greece was deep in the red date back to early-mid 2009, so I don't get why editors say "it's too recent". It's recent enough to be included and important, but old enough to be considered an established fact and not just a recent news swoop. As for now, I'm re-putting it, 'cause I'm sorry, but anyone who reads the economy section is stunned at how there isn't even any info on Greece's 2008 - 2010 huge financial crisis, banking problems, massive debt and vicinity to bankruptcy. As for that, since it's relevant and recent, but not just a one minute yesterday news swoop and is an established fact with tonnes of reliable sources, I'm putting it back in.-- Theologiae ( talk) 21:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
By the end of 2009, as a result of a combination of international (financial crisis) and local (uncontrolled spending prior to the October 2009 national elections) factors, the Greek economy faced its most severe crisis after 1993, with the second highest budget deficit as well as the second highest debt to GDP ratio in the EU. Your addition is thus redundant. Second, it's placement at the top of the economy section and its tone are not NPOV ("causing problems for the euro). Athenean ( talk) 00:20, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
What is written in the article is factually incorrect and reflects a Greek nationalist agenda. The rest of the EU is not happy with Greek government policy in dealing with the crisis, and this article claims that they are. Furthermore, other so-called facts are completely misleading: Greeks have always had a problem with saving money, and most of the assets in Greek banks are from Albanian deposits rather than Greek account holders. It is therefore debatable what the deposit-lending ratio means for the economy, although it has implications for individual banks. Other economic data are just left as the fraudulent statistics that Greece presented to the EU -- without comment. Sorry, this is not a serious article when it ignores the worst economic crisis for Greece in 50 years. 85.72.235.178 ( talk) 13:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Not at all. You just quote idiotic press: the British economy has budgetary problems, and is also in a weak position because of banking dependency. The Greek economy has had a sustained history of indebtedness for no reason other than giving unnecessary jobs to political friends and corruption in the pension system, while doing nothing to support industry or even small family businesses. However, the situation with the Euro has made all of this even worse, and that is where the rest of the EU comes in. The UK was not in the Euro and its currency collapsed a year ago as a consequence of its weaker economy; the Greek currency is the Euro and remains the same, leaving Greece with no soluations to its longer term economic problems as well as no solution to its debt problems. Leaving the article as it is, hides all of this and is deliberate fraud, much as the cause of the mess in the real economy! 85.72.235.178 ( talk) 23:45, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
You Greeks assume that everyone is as full of bullshit as you are. Wrong. 85.72.235.178 ( talk) 19:45, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The whole world is aware of the difficult financial situation in Greece. Based on the above comments may I suggest something that at least addresses what the media have been suggesting and a brief discussion of who does and does not support this opinion. For example "Media reports throughout the world have suggested that Greece may be heading towards bankruptcy. The following may support this view 1. Standard and Poor's have labeled government bonds as "junk bonds" etc etc. In contrast there are many who believe that bankrupcy is unlikely. For example so and so says etc etc." I'm not an expert on the subject, but everyone except this wikipedia article seem to be discussing it. Regardless of whether or not you believe the media reports, please stay current and make the article a more complete and trustworthy source of information. kerfuffle ( talk) 23:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This under the section Greece calls Eleutheria e Thanatos (in big bold letters) a "national slogan" (it's the bloody title of the book). It's secondary since it gives the Greek embassy as a source (thas verifying the original propagator of the idea that it is a "national slogan")
If what User:Future Perfect at Sunrise is doing here is not disruptive editing, then what is it? 87.249.103.246 ( talk) 08:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Why not delete the "Independence from the Ottoman Empire 25 March 1821" information too? That is not in any official document — it is only the official date of celebration — (some fringe theories actually claim it was the 24th). And also no one has found a non-tertiary source that "Greece drives on the right"; that info has remained unsourced for ages (sic). It just happens that 99% of Greeks will tell you that is by tradition. Unless we can source that with secondary sources or Greek legislation, we should remove it? Shadowmorph ^"^ 08:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Greece only has an official "εθνόσημο": http://www.presidency.gr/en/ethnoshmo.htm (ethnosemo, English:national emblem). There is no such thing as an official current "Coat of Arms of Greece" (the page redirects to National emblem of Greece). The designation "coat of arms" in the infobox is factually wrong. Shadowmorph ^"^ 09:15, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
The Hymn to Liberty is not the official national anthem. Only the first two verses of it is the national anthem: http://www.presidency.gr/en/ethn_Ymnos.htm. In order for the infobox to go in accordance with official information it should read: National Anthem: the first two verses of the Hymn to Liberty. Shadowmorph ^"^ 09:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
{{
editprotected}}
According to above discussions, the following edits were requested by one or more editors:
(<)Comment about #1: In the absense of sources that you would describe as secondary there is nothing against using tertiary sources until we can do better. Only they would have to be verifiable and reliable sources) like the European Parliament source and vexillology sources like Flags of the World (and some books), I believe. Anyway the discussion is found above. It's on any admin's discretion to assess it Shadowmorph ^"^ 23:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Thx, Taivo, I will need that in the future when we will again talk about consensus! GK1973 ( talk) 13:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
I have reviewed the requests and assessed the consensus for them on this page.
Regards, — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 22:00, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Ambassade de Grèce Greek Embassy at France official site:
Maxime du pays : « La Liberté ou la Mort ». (it's near the bottom before section "Institution", or Ctrl-F to find it)
Everytime a source was provided, some reason was made up to disregard it. Even after all that orgy of evidence about being a traditional motto.... Now can we include the motto??? Or is there any more work requested by me? The info is verifiable. The Greek embassy is primary or secondary, reliable and official. So it's all good. In case you wonder, I found it in Quid's sources. Shadowmorph ^"^ 06:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Embajada de Grecia en Madrid Greek Embassy at Spain:
the motto is explanatory inscribed on the flag. Shadowmorph ^"^
The GREEK EMBASSIES are foreign sources!!!???? Something is definitely wrong with us.... GK1973 ( talk) 14:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a "foreign" source:
ERT: http://news.ert.gr/el/21953-ellada.htm "Ελλάδα ... σύνθημα: 'Ελευθερία ή Θάνατος'", English:"Greece ... motto: 'Freedom or Death'" Shadowmorph ^"^ 18:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I still don't get it... it's in the European Parliament web site, in the Greek army site, in the Greek school books in many other sources too and believe me if any of you will ask the Greek people "what is your national motto?" 99% will say "Freedom or Death" (it's something we learn in school and the motto we know when we celebrate our independence day)... still we need to find a reliable source. I really don't get it! Perhaps we have to make the Greek Prime minister to state on CNN that Greece's national motto is "Freedom or Death" and to sign on a reaaaaally big paper, with reaaaally big letters (just in case) to be valid :p It's the last time i write for this issue and that's because i really don't care if Wikipedia will write or not what the 11 millions of Greeks already know. It's obvious to me that some people for an unknown reason to me don't want it -- xvvx ( talk) 01:36, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Attention All Editors: Please peruse/follow this in order to learn how the Wikipedia rules are formulated and implemented over time. This has a nexus to the current (non-ending) discussion, if you can understand the inner (I mean the inner-inner) workings of Wikipedia policies, the free encyclopedia. Esem0 ( talk) 03:44, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Already in protection. Is it forbidden to edit in the article?..... --— Ioannes Tzimiskes Talk 13:01, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Don't forget the text in the map in any proposal for "sectional" protection. While not as sure a method of protection as total protection, it would at least keep the most rabid edit warriors at bay (Shadowmorph, you're not one of those). But if a consensus on the current text could be hammered out.... But that's probably just a pipe dream. ( Taivo ( talk) 13:47, 6 June 2009 (UTC))
I have no intention to change it and really can't understand the logic about locking an article 2 months already (and with no final date in sight) because of two words! Moreover shadowmorph had a point by saying that the Republic's article is unprotected while also pending on the arbcom decision and i don't see any case of serious vandalism. The whole thing about the name dispute and how it was handled (for the core issue maybe surprisingly enough for you my objections are less) by members of the community towards greek editors is in my opinion unfair. Wikipedia has certain procedures and i feel they were multiply abused. --— Ioannes Tzimiskes Talk 17:41, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
Following the conclusion of the Arbcom case, a new centralised discussion for Macedonia-related naming issues is now being opened at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Macedonia. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:48, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
I move that the credibility of the above page is in serious doubt, considering the relevant history of the user who started it, and the bias of certain observations on it, as well as that user's inappropriate - to say the least - language towards a good number of users who have contgributed to this topic. Let it RIP. Politis ( talk) 17:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
There needs to be a correction. Republic of Macedonia is listed as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and not just Republic of Macedonia. Since there is already a state called Macedonia which is in Greece this need to be clarified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.91.5.101 ( talk) 07:45, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest placing the term 'Republic of Macedonia' in this article in quotation marks until the name issue is resolved, like so, "Republic of Macedonia". Any feedback on the suggestion? (please, I most kindly propose no comment be made from FPS since I am in no mood for rude, dismissive or abrupt remarks, I suggest some users need to learn the difference when editors - such as myself - make a suggestion on the talk page or make a direct edit on the article). Politis ( talk) 16:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
The Centralized discussion set up to decide on a comprehensive naming convention about Macedonia-related naming practices is now inviting comments on a number of competing proposals from the community. Please register your opinions on the RfC subpages 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. (Page 5 deals with the conventions most directly affecting this article.)
Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Just a note about the language "Macedonian" which by some linguists is identified as a dialect of Bulgarian (a Slavic language) some linguists identify it as Serbo-Croatian ( also a Slavic language) therefore is extremely confusing and does not comply with history as we know it. Since the Slavic people did not come to occupy the Balkan penninsula until a thousand years after the death of Alexander the Great of Macedon how can a Slavic language be termed "Macedonian?" It's like Papua New Guinea claiming they have changed their ethnicity to Queenslanders and changing their country's name to Queensland and naming their language as Queenslandish! I find this an usurpation and falsification of Greek history and territory and a gross miscarriage of truth and justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.9.241 ( talk) 11:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
There is a missing section explaining that Hellas means THE LAND OF LIGHT and implies that the rest of territories were submerged into intellectual darkness/barbarism. 87.219.85.254 ( talk) 00:12, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
We've missed out the fact that Ancient Greece (?) invented fire, light, oxygen and everything else.
On a more serious note, the lead reads like an advertisement for visiting Greece.
Firstly, Western drama was made famous by Shakespeare more so than by Ancient Greece.
Mathematical principles where articulated in the East as were major scientific discoveries which facilitated later Western advancements. The claim to being the birthplace for political science is equally disputable. This needs to be fixed, methinks, Interestedinfairness ( talk) 20:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
Since the article is protected, I make a comment here. In the sports section, it is stated that the national soccer team is currently ranked 20th, which is not valid (it was true sometime in 2007, when this was posted) - current rank is 11th. Since FIFA ranking changes continuously, either somebody should regularly update this paragraph, or - perhaps better - takes off entirely the ranking info and simply provides link to the FIFA ranking site. Skartsis ( talk) 07:24, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
The segment on ancient Greek philosophy is somewhat limited, esp. the section dealing with the Presocratics. A more apt name(though 'Presocratics' is a name still being used), would be the Materialist Philosophers of Ionia, the region now known as the southwestern coast of Turkey, (the part of Turkey facing Greece, right across from the island of Rhodes). The term "materialist" is a philosophical term referring to a branch of philosophy advocating that matter precedes spirit. Most notable philosophers of Ioania were three, namely: Thales, Anaximandros, (or Anaximander), and Anaximenis. All three believed that life originated from either, water, air, soil, fire, or from all four substances taken together. They all came from the then known Ionian city states of Miletus, and Alikarnassus (modern day Turkish town of Bodrum). Their ideas were kept alive by such other later day philosophers as Heraclitus (all is in a state of flow - ΤΑ ΠΑΝΤΑ ΡΕΙ), Epicurus, and Democritus, the father of the atomic theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.132.118.239 ( talk) 18:53, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
The map that you have in this article indicates the FYROM as republic of "macedonia" Since Greece has not accepted this name for FYROM it is not right to have this map here. Please change or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.107.205.213 ( talk) 13:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I dont say that you must change it with a map that contains the name FYROM but you should remove the map due to the decision of Greece for the name. And i dont want a battle just this map removed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
79.107.238.152 (
talk) 11:02, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Vampires are real because i have seen one in calacary in 1996.i think is good to put some photos of famous greeks ,such as theodorakis and callas in the field of music,
for example http://www.os3.gr/arhive_afieromata/videothiki/theodorakis4.jpg Greco22 ( talk) 18:45, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I ve made some chenges.I added some new photographs which i belive thy are more characteristics Greco22 ( talk) 16:16, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
actually is not a characteristic photo of greek tourism,when somebody thinks about greek tourism doesnt think the loutraki beach!!!
the picture is about a typical greek island where is the main interest from tourists!
if u want we can put a explanation under the photo or search for another!thanku
Greco22 (
talk) 22:07, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
On 19:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC), Greece is socialist to present due to a new leader in power named George Papandreou Jr.
Please update the info.
Sereniama ( talk) 19:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Riiiight... and Cyprus is a People's Republic. -- JokerXtreme ( talk) 14:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
That new map on the infobox must be updated, because its wrong. It does not show the Aegean Islands of Greece! 77.83.191.156 ( talk) 12:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for that! I think that it would be great if you could complete your nice job and add corfu as well as cyclades islands, as well as sporades. Thanks! 77.83.191.156 ( talk) 15:56, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Why? I want to know why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.71.36.132 ( talk) 13:36, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
03:02, 17 June 2009 J.delanoy (talk | contribs) changed protection level of Greece [edit=autoconfirmed] (indefinite) [move=sysop] (indefinite) (Excessive vandalism: sigh) (hist) -- JokerXtreme ( talk) 18:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
What? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
83.212.41.168 (
talk) 18:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Greece as the country of greek - greek: from the old Turkish slang word greco meaning slave the Hellenic community chose this name in order never forget(or forgive) the time their nation was under their cruel hold.
The original name Hellas (the h is mute) is the most proper name of their nation that they mostly prefer over the others, in the extend you can very easily earn ones of them respect by showing the respect calling them Hellenic (the h is mute)
-thrust me I am from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.200.205 ( talk) 14:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
On the infobox, Ranking for GDP per capita and GDP per capita (nominal)should change to 25th and 26th respectively and include the new vaules for 2009 according to IMF. 82.68.83.147 ( talk) 15:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Greece as the country of greek - greek: from the old Turkish slang word greco meaning slave the Hellenic community chose this name in order never forget(or forgive) the time their nation was under their cruel hold.
The original name Hellas (the h is mute) is the most proper name of their nation that they mostly prefer over the others, in the extend you can very easily earn ones of them respect by showing the respect calling them Hellenic (the h is mute)
-thrust me I am from there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.200.205 ( talk) 14:38, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
On the infobox, Ranking for GDP per capita and GDP per capita (nominal)should change to 25th and 26th respectively and include the new vaules for 2009 according to IMF. 82.68.83.147 ( talk) 15:26, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
Athenean, do you have any explanation for this revert, other than "nice try"?
I simply reverted a POV pushing nationalistic edit which contained unsourced speculations against Turkey and added a {{failed verification|date=March 2010}} to the ref which does not support what was being written on that sentence.
Oh, and one more thing, this is English WP, so Constantinople -> Istanbul.
Thank you. kedadial 01:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Currently the national language links to the broad and more ancient Greek and not the Modern Greek page, which is the national language of Greece. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glaenia ( talk • contribs) 21:02, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The first paragraph in the History section of the article starts with "Greece was the first area in Europe where advanced early civilizations emerged". This phrase is very bold and I would say untrue. Every civilization is based on previous advancements and to call a civilization the first would be inappropriate. Are we implying something about the Thracian? What do you mean by Greece as an area of advanced civilization? Was there any Greece at that time?
Therefore instead of:
Greece was the first area in Europe where advanced early civilizations emerged, beginning with the Minoan civilization in Crete and then the Mycenean (note the typo) civilization on the mainland.
I propose:
Some of the early advanced European civilizations emerged in modern day Greece, beginning with the Minoan civilization in Crete and later the Mycenaean civilization on the mainland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.26.79.18 ( talk) 09:09, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
In my opinion, the only good part of this edit is that the Cycladic civilization was added. On the other hand, I cannot see what's the point of it and the argument of A.Kamburov. Actually, "But although today for most of the Western world it is "common knowledge" that everything started from Greece, maybe tomorrow we'll include the other pieces of the puzzle and discover a more colorful image" isn't an argument to base on your changes on a stable version of this sentence. A good argument could be if this editor could provide to us some earlier advanced civilizations in Europe than the Cycladic, the Minoan and the Mycenaean. I'm against this change too. - Sthenel ( talk) 21:09, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Using other Wikipedia articles as an argument is one of my favorite mistakes to watch. What other advanced civilzations were there in the Balkans beside the Cycladic, Minoan, and Mycenean (please, please, do not tell me the Thracians)? All the early advanced civilizations in Europe evolved on the territory of what is now Greece. There is nothing incorrect or inappropriate about that statement. Therefore I don't see any reason to change the relevant passage in the history section. You and your sources have proven absolutely nothing. Athenean ( talk) 07:03, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
It is important to mention that Greece according to the World Meterological Organisation hold the official highest temperature record in Europe with 48.0C recorded in Athens.Please see Athens article for reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.76.107 ( talk) 21:07, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't wish to comment on the argument about Greece as a pseudo-primordial civilisation. I haven't read the thread and I suspect both sides have a point about wording.
But the opening six paragraphs of the history section seem to me an excellent and intriguing introduction to the subject. Bravo, Greece editors, and thank you! Robertbyrne ( talk) 03:50, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Needs Section on Current Economic Crisis
75.166.179.110 ( talk) 00:53, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand why editors do not want to include the greece bankruptcy. I now people say wiki isn't the news, but this has been going on for nearly a year, it's just now that it's been advertised and made present to the public. Dates saying greece was deep in the red date back to early-mid 2009, so I don't get why editors say "it's too recent". It's recent enough to be included and important, but old enough to be considered an established fact and not just a recent news swoop. As for now, I'm re-putting it, 'cause I'm sorry, but anyone who reads the economy section is stunned at how there isn't even any info on Greece's 2008 - 2010 huge financial crisis, banking problems, massive debt and vicinity to bankruptcy. As for that, since it's relevant and recent, but not just a one minute yesterday news swoop and is an established fact with tonnes of reliable sources, I'm putting it back in.-- Theologiae ( talk) 21:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
By the end of 2009, as a result of a combination of international (financial crisis) and local (uncontrolled spending prior to the October 2009 national elections) factors, the Greek economy faced its most severe crisis after 1993, with the second highest budget deficit as well as the second highest debt to GDP ratio in the EU. Your addition is thus redundant. Second, it's placement at the top of the economy section and its tone are not NPOV ("causing problems for the euro). Athenean ( talk) 00:20, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
What is written in the article is factually incorrect and reflects a Greek nationalist agenda. The rest of the EU is not happy with Greek government policy in dealing with the crisis, and this article claims that they are. Furthermore, other so-called facts are completely misleading: Greeks have always had a problem with saving money, and most of the assets in Greek banks are from Albanian deposits rather than Greek account holders. It is therefore debatable what the deposit-lending ratio means for the economy, although it has implications for individual banks. Other economic data are just left as the fraudulent statistics that Greece presented to the EU -- without comment. Sorry, this is not a serious article when it ignores the worst economic crisis for Greece in 50 years. 85.72.235.178 ( talk) 13:48, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Not at all. You just quote idiotic press: the British economy has budgetary problems, and is also in a weak position because of banking dependency. The Greek economy has had a sustained history of indebtedness for no reason other than giving unnecessary jobs to political friends and corruption in the pension system, while doing nothing to support industry or even small family businesses. However, the situation with the Euro has made all of this even worse, and that is where the rest of the EU comes in. The UK was not in the Euro and its currency collapsed a year ago as a consequence of its weaker economy; the Greek currency is the Euro and remains the same, leaving Greece with no soluations to its longer term economic problems as well as no solution to its debt problems. Leaving the article as it is, hides all of this and is deliberate fraud, much as the cause of the mess in the real economy! 85.72.235.178 ( talk) 23:45, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
You Greeks assume that everyone is as full of bullshit as you are. Wrong. 85.72.235.178 ( talk) 19:45, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The whole world is aware of the difficult financial situation in Greece. Based on the above comments may I suggest something that at least addresses what the media have been suggesting and a brief discussion of who does and does not support this opinion. For example "Media reports throughout the world have suggested that Greece may be heading towards bankruptcy. The following may support this view 1. Standard and Poor's have labeled government bonds as "junk bonds" etc etc. In contrast there are many who believe that bankrupcy is unlikely. For example so and so says etc etc." I'm not an expert on the subject, but everyone except this wikipedia article seem to be discussing it. Regardless of whether or not you believe the media reports, please stay current and make the article a more complete and trustworthy source of information. kerfuffle ( talk) 23:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)