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Shouldn't the activity by John Conyers calling for the censure (and perhaps impeachment) of Bush be listed under the crticisim section? This seems significant. ADDED: sorry about the series of wonky edits. I'm a newbie and I broke some stuff on the talk page somehow which I seem to have fixed (somehow) Numskll 15:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Impeach_Bush here is a wikipedia article that references Conyers Numskll 15:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Being recognized as Person of the Year is not an honor, according to the magazine. Therefore, this does not belong under his "perceptions," unless to show that he is influential. I believe that it is critical to make this specific distinction by describing the title in this article.
True. Hitler was person of the year. ~~
-- Time Magazine selects its 'Person of the Year' as being the person who had the biggest effect on the year's news. This is even mentioned as such in the Wikipedia article on the magazine. Kilraven 17:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
bush is clearly out of his mind get those dang troops outta iraq ya stinky head!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.252.171 ( talk • contribs)
No the crusade is not over, we still need to convert the infidels.
Shouldn't this banner be at the beginning of the article rather than at the end?
Would it hurt to note that some historians consider him the worst president ever?
I'm sure. Good luck with that.
Its really scary how some REALLY think that Bush cares a f*** about the people in Iraq. But if you live in any country of the world, it must be hard to admit that your country is doing evil, because the evil deserves punishment. 200.95.132.229 17:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)PEACEKEEPER
Quote- "How does any president's reputation sink so low? The reasons are best understood as the reverse of those that produce presidential greatness. In almost every survey of historians dating back to the 1940s, three presidents have emerged as supreme successes: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt. These were the men who guided the nation through what historians consider its greatest crises: the founding era after the ratification of the Constitution, the Civil War, and the Great Depression and Second World War. Presented with arduous, at times seemingly impossible circumstances, they rallied the nation, governed brilliantly and left the republic more secure than when they entered office. Calamitous presidents, faced with enormous difficulties -- [James] Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, [Herbert] Hoover and now Bush -- have divided the nation, governed erratically and left the nation worse off. In each case, different factors contributed to the failure: disastrous domestic policies, foreign-policy blunders and military setbacks, executive misconduct, crises of credibility and public trust. Bush, however, is one of the rarities in presidential history: He has not only stumbled badly in every one of these key areas, he has also displayed a weakness common among the greatest presidential failures -- an unswerving adherence to a simplistic ideology that abjures deviation from dogma as heresy, thus preventing any pragmatic adjustment to changing realities. Repeatedly, Bush has undone himself, a failing revealed in each major area of presidential performance." title -- Summer 19:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed with Gzuckier's last point. If you want to complain about Bush, go here -- Kchase02 ( T) 03:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Anyone who calls Bush the worst president ever is ignorant of history and appealing only to their dislike of the man, not his policies. I don't like Bush either, but I would prefer if people kept their complaints about him to the facts. If you're a Republican, there are many others that can be considered worse. If you're a Democrat? Nixon, possibly Reagan, Andrew Johnson perhaps, Herbert Hoover. And proper Libertarians would place Bush no higher than 4th on the all-time worst list. That said, let's get back to discussing the article. -- Golbez 20:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Gzuckier 20:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
While I wouldn't say that he was the "Worst Ever" you could say that his popularity polls fell lower that any president the United States has ever had. The difference is that this is undisputed fact as opposed to opinion. However, I think this is already in the article. Alshain 19:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
It is worth noting that other presidents, like Harry Truman, had lower approval ratings during his presidency than President Bush. Truman's ratings went as low as 22% in the Gallup poll. It led to his decision not to run for a third term (being the last eligible to do so). He is now considered among the better presidents. Criddic 23:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It would be most accurate to state, "Gzuckier believes Bush to be the worst president ever." Not really relevant for an encyclopedia, but gets to the heart of this debate . . . . . people's opinions about Bush. --Jedunc 67.189.110.131 02:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
We really should post the article with the opinion of the american public on Bush. That is all I want to say, because I don't see how that is not important in an encyclopedia. I'm sure someone will make a remake about that though. -- Salem XIII 10:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
This article is voicing out lots of opinions. It is not a real encyclopdia article anymore. I personally hate Bush, but that might not be some other people's views. People, write only facts, and maybe a few opinions on Bush's crazy attempts to go on war against Iraq, and now, probably North Korea. -- Haha169 16:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
We simply can't note that he may be considered the worst president. As someone said before, the American Civil War was extremely controversial when it happened. Half of the people in the Union wanted to fight it, and half wanted to recognize Confederate independence. Yet nobody today thinks that staying in the Civil War was a bad decision. The same may go for any issue currently in occurence. There will always be polarization, so to say that some people think he's the worst ever is unimportant. This is for FACT, not OPINION. We are not writing about the polarized and/or possibly radical opinions some people hold. We are writing about factual elements of his presidency, such as legislation, treaties, etc.
I am indeed saying "that people shouldn't judge Bush yet; and therefore Wikipedia shouldn't notice that people are judging Bush now", as Gzuckier put it. It's pointless. Anyway, many who edit this article seem so hateful of Bush they probably shouldn't edit here. Remeber NPOV? There are plenty of apolitical people who can make up for the loss. -- CommKing 13:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
It would be perfectly fine to add in polls as long as you note the time of the study and who it was done by. You could add it under a new section, popularity. You would have to use the same poll over a period of time, and make sure not to misrepresent information. And for the record, Bush is an idiot. But, you can't just write that in an encyclopedia. That's something Bush would do. Oh, and would the blind Bush followers save us the whole "you're blinded by a hate of Bush" speech. We're not. But this isn't the place to argue about that. Oh, and at least have the guts to sign your name. Stop Me Now! 21:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Sometimes, I wonder why so many people can not just write their criticisms of George W. Bush on a personal blog instead of on Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia, not a dirt sheet or critic's page. I doubt this page will ever be free again. So many people are in love with Dubya-bashing yet they'll praise a drug-addicted actor. User:Brighat 14:18, July 11th 2006 (UTC)
I'm not aware enough of the poll figures but it seems odd to me that there are people so willing to quote about how Lincoln was so unpopular and then became popular and dispute that we should report that currently George W Bush is unpopular. The poll results for Hoover or Lincoln, the public opinion had to be recorded somewhere so that we would know today that they were unpopular or perhaps less popular than they have become. I think the progression of public opinion about GWBush during his presidency and later after as well is noteworthy. Omishark 15:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree that reporting on the president's poll ratings is noteworthy, and should be included in the article. I disagree that he should be labeled "The Worst President Ever" simply based on those ratings, since Truman had lower ratings and he clearly is not noted as the "Worst President Ever" because of those ratings. I agree that the comparison to Lincoln's popularity is valid - before (and even during) the civil war, Lincoln's actions were highly controversial, and there were even calls for his impeachment. I disagree that this aspect of Lincoln's presidency has any real relevance to the current article on George Bush, as Lincoln's final job performance and historical impact was something that was assessed decades after his death, and his popularity and approval grew as the true historical contributions of the man became apparent in the light of further events. History may judge that Bush has done well, or may judge that he has done poorly. However, as with Lincoln, this is a decision historians of the future will make, not commentators or writers of today. I would like to add the comment, however, that including his poll ratings as a graph is a double-edged sword, because the production of the graph is, by definition, original research. Data was gathered by an editor, formatted on a graph and presented in the article to show something that the original data did not. I agree that it is much clearer and easier to understand than the original source. however, reformatting the original source data in this manner fits the definition of "any new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis of published data" as explained at WP:NOR and is original research. Xaa 08:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
This sentence is incorrect: "As of August 2, 2000, Bush had visited the ranch 49 times during his time as president, accruing 319 days away from the White House and nearly reaching Reagan’s eight-year record of 335 days in 5.5 years.[citation needed]". George Bush was inaugurated in January 2001 so the year on this date has to be incorrect. 35.11.38.58 04:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)Sayrah
The reference referred to the year 2005, according to [2]. I have since corrected the error (a.m.a.i.w.t.f.v.t.a.). Autopilots 08:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
All this talk about presidential ratings is ridiculous. The reason Bush is considered to be possibly the worst ever is the media. The reason so many have been influenced to this opinion is the media. Did we have such extensive internet, television, radio, magazines, newspapers, etc. during the terms of all other presidents? Did we have anything near the equivalent? It is a fact of life that the great people are the ones who are hated the most. Great people see a hard road ahead of them with failure and loss of popularity, and they take it anyway, even when there's a chance to turn back. I don't mean to say the George Bush is one of those people; all I'm saying is that anyone who takes the position of president, such an important role, is going to be hated by someone or other, and with media that is based more on opinion or agenda than dedication to truth, presidents in the information age will be more hated than any of the other presidents or leaders in history. Politicians are most hated of people in the world as far as I know, and that is because their task is so important. It's courageous to sacrifice your life and reputation to serve your country as current politicians are doing.
some_dude
Where does this nickname come from, if I wiki it, I just get a redirect to this page. -- Ktp72 09:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I think this entire talk page is an effort to find a civil alternative to personal attacks.
Well, this is just an opinion, and only mine, so I'm sure it's not "notable;" however, I'm going to insert it here. The point of the New York Times article is very simple:
Although it reports factual findings from previous articles, it is an opinion piece. As I've been told many times, "Wikipedia is not the place for opinions."
This being said, the Bush article can be restructured to present the factual premises as fact, and the opinion stuff as "related opinion."
To those who think that Rush Limbaugh's conservatism is equal to the Times's Liberalism, I disagree, to put it mildly. The Times is much more centrist than Limbaugh. A better comparison would be Limbaugh to Mother Jones.
To those who say the article on Bush is couched in right wing bias, I heartily agree. One only has to read the German Wikipedia pages to see the difference (I can read German, so I can tell). Now, I don't mean that we should only post Mr. Bush's shortcomings in the article. We should include any successes he's had in life, as well. In my opinion, however, there are damned few successes, if any.
Just food for thought...
TheKurgan 05:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I have to aggree with TheKurgan. The GWBush page is still larded with intermittent right-wing bias, although it's slowly improving, and is a lot better than it used to be. I realize that it's hard to deal with the Bush worshippers, who often claim that facts are "biased opinion", as "FairNBalanced" has amply demonstrated. Sometimes there are not two sides of an issue, but the "he-said she-said" style makes it seem as if there are.
Example: "Bush’s supporters respond that broad powers in the War on Terrorism are necessary to prevent major attacks against the United States [25] and that the president has not abused these powers. [26]" Obviously the President has abused those powers: we already know that he sent an innocent Canadian to be tortured in Syria (Maher Arar), and threw out his lawsuit for damages based on an implausible "state secrets" claim; locked a US citizen up for years without bringing him to trial, only to admit that there was no particular reason not to bring him to trial (Jose Padilla); and those are just the most obvious examples.
Mentioning that Bush supporters believe that the President has not abused his power, without mentioning that they're clearly wrong, is in fact a biased presentation.
Another example. In "Foreign Policy", regarding the so-called "missile defense system". "The American Physical Society criticized this policy change, citing doubts about the system’s effectiveness. [45]" These weren't "doubts", these were certainties. Everyone who's looked into it seriously knows that the system doesn't work *at all*. It couldn't even work properly in tests which were *blatantly rigged in its favor*. This is pretty much covered in the APS criticism.
Meanwhile, pro-Bush sections intermittently present opinion as fact. "A 1985 meeting with evangelist Billy Graham ultimately led Bush to devote himself to a more serious practice of Christianity [27], giving up alcohol, and beginning a pivotal phase in his life and career." Pure opinion, and hagiography too. Many would contend that Bush is not seriously practicing Christianity.
Unfortunately, this renders English Wikipedia a poor source for current affairs information. I'm not sure if there's any way within the Wiki medium to prevent the intrusion of anti-fact biases, though.
Incidentally, some improvements in coverage which could be made for the G.W.Bush page are: (1) "signing statements": related constitutional and rule-of-law issues. (a) Note that Bush applies these differently from previous presidents; while previous Presidents used them to declare that they were going to bring cases to court regarding constitutionality, Bush has used them to declare his intention to disregard a law *without* bringing a case to court. (b) Note that Bush applied such a statement to the McCain anti-torture bill (Or link to a full-length article on the topic.)
(2) Add discussion of issues relating to the extremely heavy use of recess appointments
(3) Discuss the controversy regarding the constitutionality of so-called "faith-based initiatives" (Or link to a full-length article on the topic.)
(4) Discuss Bush's illegal (in violation of FISA) domestic spying programs. (a) Note that Bush specifically stated to Congress in 2001 that he did not want any further amendments to FISA. (b) Note that he then started the programs in violation of FISA, without informing Congress. (Or link to a full-length article on the topic.)
(5) Cover the administration's well-documented penchant for secrecy, and the criticisms thereof.
(6) Cover the administration's aggressive responses to people who disagree with them.
(7) Cover foreign reaction to the Bush administration.
(8) Cover the case in which Bush signed a "law" not passed by both houses of Congress.
Most of these deserve links to full articles. In some cases, the articles already exist, but the links aren't clearly arranged.
There's almost no point in editing a controversial page on Wikipedia though, so I won't try. 24.59.100.172 18:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC) ANON May 25, 2006 24.59.100.172 18:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Since it is only an opinion that the president has engaged in unlawful activity or that he has abused his powers, I would not expect this site to use such rhetoric when documenting the Presidency of George W. Bush. If the courts and/or Congress were to judge that he did abuse his powers, then it would be of note. For example, if the House of Representatives impeached the president for "high crimes and misdemeanors" it would obviously have to be included. This is unlikely to happen, although not impossible at this point. There is no direct evidence to suggest that these claims are true, which is why the topic is controversial. Criddic 01:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me, but where is the new user who may have never edited Wikipedia before told that this page is the exception and not the norm when it comes to Wikipedia? I think that the semi-protection tag should be re-inserted in the article to make it very clear that the rest of Wikipedia is open. From what I see, there isn't even a tag on the talk page and the article doesn't even belong in the semi-protection category. Ronline ? 01:14, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
If the article is semi-protected, then the article has to say that. If people don't like the template been in, then unprotect the page. Leaving it semiprotected and then hiding the fact though not having a template is dishonest and not an option. FearÉIREANN \ (caint) 03:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this is currently possible, but the way it should be is to inform potential editors that they cannot edit this page (due to semi-protection) after they click on the "edit" link. I.e. clicking on the "edit" link should bring non-eligible editors to a page that explains semi-protection and why they are currently ineligible. There should be no indication on the article page itself about the semi-protection - such notices are highly distracting for the huge majority of Wikipedia users who are readers, not editors. The primary purpose of Wikipedia is to provide an encyclopedia, not to provide facilities for editors. Editing is a means to an end, not an end in itself, thus Wikipedia should be optimized for readers, not for editors. - Hayne 17:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone planning to add information about these two concepts into this biography. Granted, Bush was not the first to espouse this doctrine, but he is the first to take it as far as it has gone. JJ4sad6 20:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I have found an excellent source of information about Bush's Immigration Reform. The link should be included somewheres in the Immigration section 4.5.6. This is the link:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/immigration/
Maybe you could add a See Also section under the Immigration section, but I'd rather a link in the text itself.
Jake 17:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Should this be in the article somewhere? Bush told a German newspaper a few weeks ago that, since taking office in 2001, "the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5lb (3.4kg) perch in my lake." [3] Of course, that can't be true, since the largest perch on record in the US is under 5 pounds. He said the worst moment was 9/11. — 0918 BRIAN • 2006-05-31 19:42
Is anyone going to keep up with the Economy Section? If not then try to leave out monthly stats as they change so often. Also this part Private employment (seasonally adjusted) originally decreased under Bush from 111,680,000 in December 2000 to 108,250,000 in mid-2003. The economy then added private jobs for 25 consecutive months from (July 2003 to August 2005), and the private employment seasonally adjusted numbers increased as of June 2005 when it reached 111,828,000. Considering population growth, that still represents a 4.6% decrease in employment since Bush took office is a year old and seems wrong anyways. The 4.6% seems way wrong by basic math and why isn't this kind of specific info linked? -- Kswanks 15:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Should the Treasury spot on the administration chart be changed? John Snow resigned, and Henry M. Paulson, Jr. was nominated. -- Stonesour025 01:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed the failure vandalism, in that the page is a redirect to this article? I tried to change it, but it was protected. 138.162.5.8
When it says in the first paragraph that his term expires on the 20th, it should say 12:00 Eastern time on January 20th
Llosoc, would you mind explaining your reasons for adding these tags? You should be aware that explaining the specific problems you found is a requirement of applying any of the various NPOV and POV tags to an article. So, what specifically is POV? Kasreyn 23:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I asked him yesterday on his Talk page to explain them, he has not, so I have removed them. User:Zoe| (talk) 16:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I have read that Daddy Bush told Jr. that before he would help him get a political career going he needed to go out "and make his money". Bush started his oil company in Texas as a result (with financing from some of daddy's friends). Contrary to popular rumor, it WAS actually able to find oil in Texas. However, it went under because the company could not produce oil priced below $15/barrel and the market price at the time was $9/barrel and lost the investors money. Within a year he became an alcoholic and got his DUI. I believe all of this is accurate and verifiable and should be included in the article by someone. It really adds a backdrop to the Iraq war and the high oil prices as it points out that Bush's greatest personal failure (of making it on his own after Daddy told him to go out on his own) was because of low oil prices.
Can this be verified? I did read in the book "Parents of the Presidents" that the greatest comparison between the Bush family and the Kennedy family is that all the Bush men have had to create their own fortunes as adults before they could share in the family wealth, whereas the Kennedys got their inheritence upon becoming adults. But we also must remember that President George W. Bush also gained a lot from selling his share in the Texas Rangers before becoming governor of Texas. Criddic 23:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Defense of Marriage act passed in '94 garners no metion in this article, or even any attention from Bush himself. He keeps attempting to use the amendment process, which he has no real power to use directly, without looking at laws established already. I'm not saying include a biased point like that, just a note about the already passed Defense of Marriage act. Under Clinton, for God's sake! -- CmdrClow
Despite the fact that the Defense of Marraige law exists, President Bush has stated that the reason he wants an amendment is to prevent "activist judges" from overturning each state's legislation on the issue. Criddic 23:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
That is hardly unprecedented. It goes back to the early years of the presidency, with arguments made by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. Presidents who prefer stronger executive power are usually confronted with major military decisions or other major issues, requiring massive reforms or more immediate actions. Presidents Lincoln, FDR, and others, have asserted this viewpoint at various times. I doubt President Bush would have done so without the events of 9/11. Whether he oversteps his boundaries is for the Congress to decide. Criddic 05:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm rather curious about the recent changes to this section and their immediate removal with the edit summary of trimming POV material... is the Boston Globe not considered a reliable source? What is POV about noting a sworn deposition, or the opinion of a former assistant secretary of defense?
I feel that the user who removed these remarks is unclear on what "NPOV" means. "NPOV" does not mean "make sure you take an equal number of viewpoints from both right and left, and keep them even at all times." Ridiculous, especially since American concepts of "right" and "left" are not globally accepted. "NPOV" means primarily that claims must be presented in an unbiased manner, without verbiage or structuring that would deliberately frame or bias the reader. It also means not to give undue weight to certain minority viewpoints. Examining the sections removed, I do not see evidence of POV phrasing or verbiage, nor do I think they are being given undue weight. Perhaps the editor who removed them felt they were not notable, or that the Boston Globe was misquoted or is unreliable. These are all other reasons for removal of content. But I'm just not seeing the POV here. Surely a military officer swearing a deposition that he abused his authority is notable in the article on the man that abuse benefited? Surely the opinion of a former assistant secretary of state is notable on the subject of alleged dereliction of duty - an assistant secretary of defense for manpower and reserve affairs, no less!
I must say I'm puzzled. Kasreyn 02:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
According to several experts who examined his record, no.
US News obtained and reviewed Bush's National Guard records and disputes the Bush line that he fufilled the technical requirements of his service.
A recent examination of the records by U.S. News does not appear to support Lloyd's conclusions. Among the issues identified by the magazine:
"The White House used an inappropriate–and less stringent–Air Force standard in determining that President Bush fulfilled his National Guard duty. Even using this lesser standard, the president did not attend enough drills to complete his obligation to the Guard during his final year of service. During the final two years of his service obligation, Bush did not comply with Air Force regulations that impose a time limit on making up missed drills. Instead, he took credit for makeup drills he participated in outside that time frame. Five months of drills missed by the President in 1972 were never made up, contrary to assertions made by the White House." [1]
This contradicts the article's claim (before my edit) that Bush "fully completed his required time in service obligations." It also means the citation of the number of points Bush earned is misleading since every year he is above the quota, but it is not mentioned that more is required that simply meeting the quota of 50 points.
IworkforNASA deleted several key facts I added, including that a former Texas Speaker of the House swore under oath that he pulled strings to get Bush into his particular unit ahead of many others on the waitlist. He also slanted the article to make it appear that only "left-leaning" groups investigated or called attention to Bush's record. In fact the two investigations I cited included the Boston Globe's and US News, which is generally considered a slightly right-of-center newsmagazine. I also quoted critizism of Bush's record by a Reagan Administration official.
These should not have been deleted, and I am restoring him. If he feels more balance should be added, I invite him add additional discussion and facts, and to provide citations to these facts.
It is also misleading to simply say that Bush was honorably discharged without mentioning the fact that this does not mean that he fulfilled all of his duties, but simply that the military choose not to make a case against his honorable discharge. As the New Republic's article on the issue notes:
"John Allen Muhammad, convicted last November for his participation in the D.C. sniper shootings, served in the Louisiana National Guard from 1978-1985, where he faced two summary courts-martial. In 1983, he was charged with striking an officer, stealing a tape measure, and going AWOL. Sentenced to seven days in the brig, he received an honorable discharge in 1985."
If we are going to note that Bush was honorably discharged, then the context and meaning of being discharged, especially in 1974 when the military was very eager to shed soliders due to the end of the war, needs to be explained. Kitteneatkitten 02:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is there a link at the bottom of the page to a Scientology/Remote Viewing page, when the topic is never mentioned in the body of the article? 67.127.59.112 11:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)Kevin
An AFD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accusations of rape against United States presidents seems to be converging on a merge decision. That would involve moving the information into this article. 69.181.124.51 05:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Some of the arguments being made over there reveal to me a lack of understanding of the editing dynamics of major political articles. A merge is wrong, these allegations are an incredibly small part of the notability of the presidents. The allegations derive notability from the presidents, not the reverse. Deletion is wrong, even if these are frivolous, because these are reasonably well-known and have been published by the media. This provides a place for a neutral factual descriptions rather than conspiracy blog-rantings. I could see splitting the article into four, but I'm not sure why that's a better organization.
Anyway, Jimbo regards the AFD process as broken, because it gives control to editors with no experience or demonstrated interest in an area. I'm beginning to agree. I certainly don't think a discussion of a probable schizophrenic's lawsuit belongs in this article. I also think that it, and the others, are well-known enough that a brief discussion somewhere else is useful to the readers, and that's our purpose after all. Derex 17:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Ironically, I had never heard of the rape allegation against Bush until 69.181.124.51 mentioned the article. I wonder about the propriety of coming here apparently to recruit voters to stop the merge. Kasreyn 00:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The funding of $15 Billion refered to in the AIDS portion of this page fails to address the reality of AIDS funding under the Bush administration. The President's Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) is in fact a partial redistribution of existing funds committed to AIDS relief around the globe. The actual amount of new funding is $9 billion while the rest was already earmarked for AIDS relief. However, PEPFAR has placed restrictions on the distrbution of funding to countries based on their current form of government, the types of AIDS programs currently in place and political/religious views. In short, the president has politicized AIDS relief. For instance, countries that have programs that do not advocate abstinence until marriage receive less or no funding than countries that do. This has resulted in 14 so called focus countries that will receive a majority of the funding. Also, PEPFAR limits the total amount of funding to 3 billion dollars over 5 years, with each fiscal year requiring a budget to be set by congress. This means that the entire 3 billion for each year may not be actually allocated to AIDS relief. 3 billion is merely the maximum amount which can be budgeted.
I believe the above should be included in the AIDS section of this page which in its current form fails to accurately depict the implications of PEPFAR implemented by Bush.
More emphasis should be placed on the fact that the Bush administration pushes "Abstinence Only" programs. Having spent time in Ethiopia, I can attest to the fact that refusing to include condom education leads to increased spread of the virus.
72.139.184.107 14:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Is Bush's use of signing statements covered anywhere in Wikipedia (Boston Globe, April 30 [5]; or see here for a shorter comment on the issue)? Rd232 talk 10:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the Trivia section. It only had one item listed: "George W. Bush Appears as the first query found for the term 'Failure' when searched on the engine Google." This is not a noteable fact in this already very long article. -- ElKevbo 16:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Good call, ElKevbo, especially considering the fact that the Bush/failure/Google fact is true only because of the Google bombing phenomenon. (see Google bomb) I'm not saying I'm pro-Bush, I'm just debunking the validity to Google's ranking of Bush as a failure. -- User: Minaker
It is notable because this bomb reflects the public perception of Bush. The bomb affects not just Google - it also affects Yahoo! Search, MSN Search and others. I think it should go into section 4.6 on public perception of Bush. I added it, but was blocked by NSLE. -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
This isn't "George W. Bush" trivia precisely. It's a bit more universal than that, but it certainly involves him and the way he is described in this article as the "43rd President." 43rd, huh? So we've had 43 U.S. Presidents. ... Name 'em. Grover Cleveland served two nonconsecutive terms. Big deal. He's still only one person. I am sick of the silence over this issue. Clinton didn't count twice. Neither did Roosevelt and he was elected four times! There have been 42 men elected to the office of U.S. President so far. George W. Bush is the most recent. Therefore it follows that George W. Bush can be considered the 42nd man elected President.
While this is technically true, the fact is that Cleveland WAS elected before and after Benjamin Harrison, which makes him the 22nd and 24th presidents. Had he been elected consecutively, he would have been counted only once. His historic feat disrupted the order. Therefore, President Bush is counted as number 43, despite being the 42nd person elected to the office. Criddic 05:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyone else heard about W.'s affair with Condi, and Laura staying at a hotel? I though I saw something on the Wayne Masden Report.-- wakefencer
I've added a sentence mentioning Bush's controversial Jesus Day proclamation [6] to the religion section of the article. Any comments and/or objections?-- ? TBC ? (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 23:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand why Schrodinger's Mongoose considers this not to be controversial... but I have no desire to engage in a revert war, so hopefully he will discuss it here with me. In an effort to provide various points of view, I've added a notation of the criticism of this proclamation by two groups (AJC and AU). Kasreyn 06:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey...no offense intended, I just removed the word "controversial" to keep things neutral. If something is to be called "controversial" I thought there should probably be a citation...which obviously has now been found. However, I don't think "refuseandresist.org", a hard-core socialist website, is the best place to link to. The original source is a legit NYT article, so I agree it should stay, but can anyone find a better link than Refuse and Resist? Schrodingers Mongoose 16:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Did anybody see the Larry King Live episode where Bush disses McCain's war service? I found it to be very disheartening and disrespectful to McCain and all veterans. I think it is a notable subject and a good display of Bush's poor character. Therefore, I think it should be included in this wikipedia article.
The fact that you want to use Wikipedia to demonstrate the president's "poor character" indicates your proposed change is a bad idea. Read up on POV. 65.95.142.241 17:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
OK then. How about somebody else writes it to allow readers to come to their own conclusion about his character? MLSmateo 21:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
its not a pov if you just state what was said and allow the reader to draw there own conclusion, no matter what the intenetion of the writer is.
This article was taken off the BBC (English, not American news) website:
America was itself to blame for the events of September 11 because the US administration was using "kid gloves" in tracking down Osama bin Laden and "other fanatics linked to Saudi Arabia", a special BBC investigation has alleged in a damning indictment of the two presidents Bush and American foreign policy.
The report, which the BBC claimed was based on a secret FBI document, numbered 199I WF213589 and emanating out of the FBI’s Washington field office, alleged that the cynicism of the American establishment and "connections between the CIA and Saudi Arabia and the Bush men and bin Ladens" may have been the real cause of the deaths of thousands in the World Trade Centre attacks.
The investigation, which featured in the BBC’s leading current affairs programme, Newsnight, said the FBI was told to "back off" investigating one of Osama bin Laden’s brothers, Abdullah, who was linked to "the Saudi-funded World Association of Muslim Youth (WAMY), a suspected terrorist organisation," whose accounts have still not frozen by the US treasury despite "being banned by Pakistan some weeks ago and India claiming it was linked to an organisation involved in bombing in Kashmir".
Newsnight said there was a long history of "shadowy" American connections with Saudi Arabia, not least the two presidents Bush’s "business dealings" with the bin Ladens and another more insidious link revealed by the former head of the American visa section in Jeddah.
The official said he had been concerned about visas issued to large numbers of "unqualified" men "with no family links or any links with America or Saudi Arabia", only to find out later that it "was not visa fraud" but part of a scheme in which young men "recruited by Osama bin Laden" were being sent for "terrorist training by the CIA" after which they were sent on to Afghanistan.
In a reiteration of a now well-known claim by one of George W Bush’s former business partners, the BBC said he made his first million 20 years ago on the back of a company financed by Osama’s elder brother, Salem Bin Laden. But it added the more disturbing assertion that both presidents Bush had lucrative stakes along with the bin Ladens in Carlyle Corporation, a small private company which has gone on to become one of America's biggest defence contractors. The bin Ladens sold their stake in Carlyle soon after September 11, it said.
American politicians later told the BBC programme that they rejected the accusation that the establishment had called the dogs of the intelligence agencies off the bin Ladens and the royal House of Saud because of a strategic interest in Saudi Arabia, which has the world's biggest oil reserve.
I find this a bit disturbing to include. The Bin Ladens officially denounced Osama years ago. Is this meant to imply a Bush connection to 9/11? There's no evidence to support such a claim. Criddic 23:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It shows the facts. This article doesn't mention Clinton because the article we are talking about is NOT Bill Clinton, it is Goerge W. Bush. This shows the cold hard facts and not including would show a lack of comittment to the NPOV. Just because the facts don't support your view doesn't mean they aren't facts. Stop Me Now! 16:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
... the "List of resignations from the George W. Bush Administration" page, which is linked from the 'See also' section at the bottom of this page: George W. Bush Administration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.207.80.59 ( talk • contribs) .
how can this article pretend to be neutral when it opennly and unabashedly sites obvious partasain "news" sourcs like the New York Times, the BBC, The Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, and even CBS "news"? all of which have an open and on the reckord partasain bias, more importantly the writing on all of those isn't even good enough to line my bird cage. what a joke— (Kepin) RING THE LIBERTY BELL 23:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
see: http://www.weeklyradioaddress.com/WRA20051001.htm
I note that this category was removed, but the reasons were unclear. If it's not a category, then fine...but Bush WAS nominated for the peace prize in 2002. Can the editor explain why he/she thinks this is "a joke"? Schrodingers Mongoose 17:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I created a petition to Pope Benedict that I would like to add to the George W. Bush article. I don't think this should be deleted by administrators.
Pistolpierre 22:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I am still not sure why dubya insists on using the gesture of the "mano cornuta, horned hand". It is my belief that this topic deserves more attention. Are we to believe that this is nothing more than his family/ and organizations' devotion to the University of Texas ?
Should this article mention that the George Bush article holds a record on wikipedia as the most vandalised page on wikipedia? 195.93.21.137 10:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
meine lustigen Haar tatses, etwas Käse über dem Internet schicken Sie mir bitte, bevor der Affe meine Huhnkuh tötet -- 152.163.100.74 21:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Since I can't edit this page being a new user, could someone please fix the "In office since" line in the infobox, right now it just says {{{term_start}}}. Thanks, Newnam 02:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I just spent some time cleaning up the external links (mostly references) in this article. Somehow (vandalism? carelessness?) a space had been inserted between the opening bracket and the URL thus causing the links to display improperly. Please be careful when adding or editing external links. And please try to insert new references in a format consistent with existing references. Feel to drop me a line on my Talk page or here on this Talk page if you have any questions or need any help! -- ElKevbo 03:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Can someone check upon the Neo-fascism#Neo-Fascism and the United States piece. I find the inclusions (starting at the Chomsky bit) all very suspect. Intangible 18:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm rather concerned about a major rewrite of the "Life before Presidency" section done by Rama's Arrow several days ago. I only just now noticed. For one thing, links to the main articles on some topics, such as the substance abuse controversy, seem to have been removed from the main body, making it less likely the reader will notice them. I don't feel the edit was really an improvement. It seems rather muddled and mashed-together now. Kasreyn 23:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1562473 )while W Bush has not - as shown by the examples in the above entry. There is not even a reference via a link to the above wiki entry on rendition, nor any reference to other civil rights changes under W Bush such as the Patriot Act that was being written 7 months prior to 9/11, as well as the NSA changes to record domestic citizen communications via calls/internet that also began in Feb 2001.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abIV0cO64zJE&refer= Spy Agency Sought U.S. Call Records Before 9/11, Lawyers Say http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/02/feinstein-briefed Feinstein: I Wasn't Briefed On Bank Records Program until they knew
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-30-nsa_x.htm Lawmakers: NSA database incomplete http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20060619-124811-3332r
All of the arguments in favor of warrantless domestic surveillance start with the Argumentum in Terrorum -9/11 (but surveillance started 7 months earlier) http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060130&s=heymannposner013106
"In sum, while the full protections that accompany challenges to detentions in other settings may prove unworkable and inappropriate in the enemy-combatant setting, the threats to military operations posed by a basic system of independent review are not so weighty as to trump a citizen's core rights to challenge meaningfully the Government's case and to be heard by an impartial adjudicator."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-6696
Patriot Act http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/acf13a1.pdf
I'm seeing way too much of the former and absolutely nothing on the latter. If anything, the UN resolution(s) violations by Saddam are what the administration maintains was their basis for war with Iraq. I'm pretty upset that wiki is missing this vital info, but I don't have the required experience to update it myself.
It may be premature right now because it is still in the news, but I think that at least one line or so ought to be included regarding the rather unusually strong friendship between Junichiro Koizumi and GW Bush. Other than the obvious controversial issues, this fact is turning out to be one of the more defining aspects of his Presidency. Perhaps in the "Foreign Policy" section. [9] -- The Yar 18:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The phrasing "However, cuts were distributed disproportionately to higher income taxpayers" is questionable: while the total dollar value was greater for higher-income taxpayers, the effect of the changes in the tax code were to make the overall tax burden more progressive, with more tax revenue coming from high income taxpayers. Suggest correcting this to "While net savings were greater for higher-income taxpayers, the overall effect was to cause the tax burden to fall more upon these high-income taxpayers, resulting in a more 'progressive' tax code." -- Charlie (Colorado) 06:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I just edited it to say "Arguably" tax cuts were distributed disproportionately, but the results were also more progressive. That seems to get both views in. -- Charlie (Colorado) 18:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
This article lacks a npov because it has verry little discussion of the negative points of the subject. user:bob000555 9:58 2 Jully 2006 (east time zone)
i think a link to this video should be included to reinforcve the article including the section where he himself is quoted as saying he has drank too muhc in the past Qrc2006 02:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
WHO THINKS IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED OR NOT???? Qrc2006 23:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Who wrote that he is self-proclaimed war President??? It is the stupidest thing I have read! sasha_best
Hi all - I'm sorry for the delay in making further revisions and making this article an FA. I will be able to start work tomorrow for sure. Rama's Arrow 14:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
dubya has presenile dementia. why is this neglected in the article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickapeadeea ( talk • contribs)
A line in the article states "Following failed diplomatic efforts to coax Saddam Hussein into yielding to weapons inspections, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq..." Now, I'm not positive about htis, but I do believe weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq, and that their efforts actually had to be postponed when the U.S. invaded Iraq. Can someone check up on this and get back to me? I don't want to remove the line without being certain that it is, indeed, false. tmopkisn tlka 22:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't have sources, but I do remember inspectors were allowed back into Iraq in early 2003, but within the first week they were again blocked from visting sites they wanted to vist and reported this violation to the head of the IAEA and the National Security Council. They were, I believe, evacuated approx 5 days prior to the 48 hour ultimatium. -- mitrebox 07:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
He is officially 60 years old now. Wow.-- Chili14( Talk| Contribs) 01:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
i am rather shocked by Rama Arrow's "comprehensive rewrite" of 2006-06-26 11:52:06. it seems to me that the article was not rewritten but rather gutted. an incredible amount of information was removed, much of it in my opinion clearly relevant and important. first of all, i am bothered by what seems to me a significant reduction in the depth and relevance of information here, and what seems to me to be a pro-Bush bias in the complete revamping of this entry. secondly, i do not see anything in the discussion section proposing this massive change. i did not do a thorough review, but i would certainly expect such an audacious maneuver to have its own section in the talk page--BEFORE making the edit.
since some time has gone by and numerous edits have been made since the massive rewrite, it will be tricky to salvage the deleted info while preserving newer edits, but worthwhile in my opinion. i'm not sure exactly what to propose... but i certainly think that it would be more in keeping with the spirit of wikipedia to discuss the REMOVAL of valid information, rather than have to pre-emptively justify its inclusion, so what i'd like to see is the old, deeper, more complete version restored, incorporating any factual corrections, additions, or useful reorganizations made by Rama Arrow and others (but NOT undiscussed deletions of valid relevant material); then if a case can be made for removals, each removal can be discussed on a case-by-case basis (not referring of course to vandalism here, or to pieces of information so blatantly reflecting "original research" or complete irrelevance that there will be no argument to deletion provided a specific rationale is given in the revision comment).
(changes made in the rewrite: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=George_W._Bush&diff=prev&oldid=60711688)
if i'm wrong about how wikipedia is supposed to work, please let me know. i'm not sure i have time to undertake this project anyway, but i would appreciate comments about the idea. tej 07:53, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
A big issue is stability, which was a primary objection in the last FAC discussion. If the article now has a more pro-Bush POV than before, the POV pushers will just shove it back the other way. Even if it's an FA, its status as one will be short lived. To me, the way to improve this article would be to go through it and the subarticles topic by topic and get them to stable, readable versions that are at least close to NPOV.-- Kchase02 T 17:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
i think we can all agree that "heavy-handed" was referring not to your desire for peer review or aspiring to featured article status, but rather to (as the subject of this talk section indicates) your massive wholesale deletion of material accumulated through the cooperation and contention of hundreds of people over years, with no prior discussion. i agree with Kchase02 above: you need to go back to WP:BOLD and read the entire thing. it covers pretty much exactly this scenario and explicitly urges against the approach you have taken, and explains why you have made people so upset. just in case you do not actually go and read as i ask, here are two choice quotes:
people make two standard objections to the sprawling nature of this page: that it's too long and that it's about Bush's presidency rather than Bush himself. i disagree with both, but especially the latter. people will come to this page to learn about Bush as a president, what he's done, how it's worked, and how the world has reacted. you wouldn't expect to see separate articles on previous presidents for their biographies and their administrations. to me, it seems like a convenient excuse to bury in obscurity facts that show Bush in a more negative light than the GOP talking points currently listed. as for the length, i tend to think that encylopedia articles should be encyclopedic. if cases are to be made for the removal of excess material, this absolutely should be done on a case-by-case basis, not one fell swoop. tej 07:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is there no discussion of Bush´s Satanism? I find it incredibly rude that the question should be silenced under the "trolling" heading. A sizeable majority of people now believe that Bush is directly or indirectly engaged in satanism. Countless internet websites prove this conclusively. I don´t mind the debate. I also don´t mind disagreement. I even have compassion for those who don´t want to believe the evidence at first. But I do find it very poor manners to just erase any trace of serious discussiom for such a serious matter. We will probably never know better than the official reports legitimized by the intellectual establishment. But we do know when we are cheated.
To those hate-filled individuals: Won´t you at least offer an explanation for deleting my attempts at discussion? After all this page is named discussion. + To those hate-filled individuals: Won´t you at least offer an explanation for deleting my attempts at discussion? After all this page is named discussion. (unsigned)
Citations please? Right away! [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31]
How about not ignoring the following sentence before judging me?
Nobody claimed he was the anti-Christ. Just a satanist.
I point out in the article that President Bush refuses to discuss the ideologies and ethos of S&Bs. Here is the minor addition made to the article: "- a society so secretive that Bush will not discuss its ideologies or ethos with the american people." Of course it was immediately deleted with the familiar NPOV. In Bush's autobiography he states that he will not discuss this secret society. Please see the NPOV tutorial for making articles NPOV. It clearly states that one should not delete to make an article NPOV - one should add. Americans have had so many rights taken away from them by the patriot act, please don't take away my right to edit this article.
Moreover. it is not trivial that we have a President who belongs to a secret society, about which all the american people know is it's not for them, and its insignia is the Jolly Rogers - a [pirate] symbol. Pirates are thieves. This does not enhance the image of Skull & Bones. In a society that prides itself on being open and transparent, the fact that our President is a member of a secret society is extremely important and not merely POV. Therefore it should be featured in this article and not glossed over as a child's joke.
The fact is that our President honors his oath of secrecy to S&B's even after swearing that he takes the office of President "without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion." It seems to me, however, that he evades every question put to him by the american people regarding skull & Bones.
I think at the very least he should answer questions of the kind: Does the S&B organization do any charitable work? What are their views on nationalized health care? If the organization's views differed from yours, would you continue to support the organization - even to the extent of steering national policy in their direction? Does the organization have a history of preferrential treatment to its members? Are you bound by oath to give preferrential treatment to its members?
BmikeSci 21:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
BmikeSci 21:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
Secret societies are illegal in many countries. See below:
"Historically, secret societies are often the subject of suspicion and speculation from non-members; and as such have aroused nervousness from outsiders since the time of the ancient Greeks, when meetings were held "sub rosa" (Latin, "under the rose") to signify the secrecy and silence of the Hellenistic god Harpocrates.
For this reason, secret societies are illegal in several countries. In the European Union, Poland has made the ban a part of its constitution. Article 13 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland states:
"Political parties and other organizations whose programmes are based upon totalitarian methods and the modes of activity of nazism, fascism and communism, as well as those whose programmes or activities sanction racial or national hatred, the application of violence for the purpose of obtaining power or to influence the State policy, or provide for the secrecy of their own structure or membership, shall be prohibited.""
BmikeSci 22:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
I also want to add that this is not original research. GWB states in his autobiography that he will not say more about S&Bs. I simple google search can verify that 'fact'.
BmikeSci 22:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
(Copied from BmikeSci's talk): Removing POV material (and Wikipedia is not a soapbox) is not valdalism. That Bush won't discuss Skull & Bones is a fact. Your evaluation of that one fact is POV. And George H.W. Bush won't discuss it. And John Kerry won't discuss it. And Wiliiam F. Buckley won't discuss it. I am not unsympathetic to negative feelings toward secret societies (which, if they are not criminal organizations are Constitutionally protected in the U.S.) but this is for the S&B article, not the Bush aricle What part of that don't your understand? -- Cecropia 22:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
(Ibid)
I understand what you are saying. I just don't think you are a cannonical source. I don't think that my single adjectival phrase is soapbox or POV. I do think that removing it over and over again is vandalism. Even if it were somewhat POV, once again, please read the NPOV tutorial. It clearly states that the way to make an article NPOV is to include all alternate POVs, not to remove the ones you don't like.
Nevertheless, I consider my edit to be merely factual. Please provide evidence to the contrary, and I will remove it.
BmikeSci 22:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
I have been accused of being argumentative in the article. I waould like to point out that in the article I only added a small factual adjectival phrase. I am arguing here on the discussion page that it should be left in the article. Some editors think that it should not remain. They argue that it should be removed and have in fact removed it. In essence they are winning the argument by force not by logic. after all, will the President discuss the ideologies and ethos of skull and bones with the american people- or not? that is the onlything that should be debated. What my point of view is has no bearing on wether or not the president will discuss s&bs with the american people. Will he or won't he? That is the only fact here that matters.
BmikeSci 22:50, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
Once again, my source is GWB's autobiography. Please explain to me how this is not a verifiable source. I am not having a poitical discussion. I am having a discussion about why my edit should stand. You have made your statement that 'you' believe that it should not be included in the article. Please don't accuse me of misusing wikipedia. Wikipedia is an open project. I have as much right as anyone to work here so long as I work ethically and try to adhere to wikipedia policies and guidelines. If the wikipedia NPOV tutorial is not wikipedia policy, what is it? Once again, I made a very simple edit:
"- a society so secretive that Bush will not discuss its ideologies or ethos with the american people."
This is a fact, it is not my personal point of view. If it were a personal point of view, you could state: "That's not true, he will discuss skull and bones with the american people."
I really can't understand your short temper on the subject: "We have already offered sufficient explanation as to why your edit is unacceptable in this article." Do you have some sort of personal ax to grind? What do you mean by we? Are you an organized opposition to edits in this article?
Once again, you don't respond to my questions but give me a warning instead. I am really disheartened. I will not however engage in any sort of personal argument. Instead I will try once again to show why the edit should be maintained. The Freedom of Information Act states:
"(2) Each agency, in accordance with published rules, shall make available for public inspection and copying--
(A) final opinions, including concurring and dissenting opinions, as well as orders, made in the adjudication of cases;
(B) those statements of policy and interpretations which have been adopted by the agency and are not published in the Federal Register; and
(C) administrative staff manuals and instructions to staff that affect a member of the public;"
We see here that the office of the President is under obligation of law to make available to public inspection those statements of policyand interpretations that have been adopted by the agency.
Therefore, he must disclose to the american people what policies he must follow by "virtue" of his oaths taken on behalf of the secret society of which he is a member. Failure to do so violates existing US law. Of course you will argue that I don't understand this law either. That is your prerogative. I would do nothing to take that right away from you. Nevertheless, I believe that the President is breaking the law. I don't want to include my opinion of this in the article. That would clearly be a violation of NPOV. However I will use this argument to justify why my edit should be included.
Of course it should be included simply by virtue of being an undisputed fact. If it is a fact that shows where the president's allegences lie, then it is an important fact and should not be excluded.
additionally, I can provide you with many sources, articles, etc. that find it remarkable that President Bush will not discuss his membership in a society that takes the Jolly Rogers, the long time symbol of piracy, as its emblem.
24.206.125.213 00:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
Well my wikipedia account was disabled, and I had to get an administrator to get my editing turned back on. That's one way to silence me. BMIKESCI 02:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
U.S. President John Quincy Adams. Adams stressed that those who take oaths to politically powerful international secret societies cannot be depended on for loyalty to a democratic republic. BMIKESCI 07:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
You may not think that it's important now, but wait till your social security is gorne: Well it's happened. Bush wants to privatize (piretize) social security. What do you expect from someone whose secret society (Skull & Bones) flies the jolly rogers as its standard.
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Jul08/0,4670,DemocratsSocialSecurity,00.html
Why would americans want this system piretized? BTW, I think that it is in possible bad taste to put an entry into this discussion under the name of taxman. It may give the impression that anyone who contributes here runs the risk of an audit.
BMIKESCI 22:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
The article says "Following failed diplomatic efforts to coax Saddam Hussein into yielding to weapons inspections, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq.." but the inspectors were hard at work up to the point they were ordered out because of the impending invasion. How about a revision that says "Following failed diplomatic efforts to coax Saddam Hussein into full cooperation with weapons inspections, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq.." The article Iraq War says 'Iraq agreed to the resolution and UNMOVIC began inspections on November 18, 2002, replacing UNSCOM which had previously been in charge of monitoring Iraq since April 3, 1991 [6][7]. Four months later on March 7, 2003, head of the inspectors, Hans Blix made his last presentation to the U.N. describing Iraq's cooperation in resolving oustanding issues as "active or even proactive," he went on to state "these initiatives three to four months into the new resolution cannot be said to constitute immediate cooperation."[8]' It further says 'At the time of the invasion UNMOVIC inspectors were ordered out by the United Nations. The inspectors requested more time as they were unable to account for the destruction of all proscribed items in the four months since inspections had resumed.[50][51]' Thus the present article is incorrect and POV in stating that Hussein refused to allow weapons inspections. In about a week from now I will make the suggested change barring any verifiable sources to the contrary. Edison 16:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone made a case for the reason that this template is on this page? I just noticed it, and considering this is an article about an American President, it makes little sense particularly when we have a section and an entire sub-article on public perception. I have made my case on the Project talk page that this templates are slapped on a little too many topics, particularly topics that are expected to be centric around a particular country. So unless there is a case for it, I say it should go. PPGMD 00:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The Liberal Party of Canada is a centrist party: By what stretch of the imagination might Jean Chretien and especially Paul Martin (a shipping magnate and fiscal conservative) be called "left wing politicians" pace the "public perceptions" section? Given this, a more expansive term such as "centrist and left-of-centre politicians" might be in order. Fishhead64 00:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I put in bold face words to eliminate, and use italics to suggest substitions. Any hackers who can get past the padlock should fix this.
Faced with serious drinking issues and difficulties in his professional and personal life, Bush would abandoned his socializing lifestyle and began attending church regularly. In 1986, he would quit drinking alcohol, and following a personal meeting and exchange with Reverend Billy Graham, he would become became a born-again Christian.[4] Changing his lifestyle, Bush also began studying studied the Bible and Christian philosophy, participating also in church and community study groups. Bush would move moved his family to Washington, D.C. in 1988, to work on his father's campaign for the U.S. presidency. He would work worked with political activists Lee Atwater and Doug Wead to develop and coordinate a political strategy for courting conservative Christians and evangelical voters, which was seen as key to winning the party nomination and the election. Delivering speeches at rallies and fundraisers, Bush would also talk to spoke with representatives of conservative and religious organizations on behalf of his father.
Well, I seemed to be making progress, and fixed a lot of awful grammar and omitted some glaring and useless redundancies, while scrupulously avoiding any tampering with the biased tone and content of the Early Life and Texas Governor and the early Presidency sections. Then I arrived at the story of the Iraq war, and there the inaccuracies were coming at me so fast and furiously that I really had to start correcting the content a bit - and adding some content for balance. This was not sabotage - unless you really believe that Bush BEGAN preparations for war AFTER the UN Security Council refused to endorse military action (which would have allowed about a week to get all the ships and weapons and troops mobilized and moved into the vicinity)! When I clicked on "save page" what came up was the unaltered article, with all its nonsense intact.
For the record, here (BELOW) is what I attempted to insert. I will freely admit that I am not an enthusiastic supporter of either Bush or his war - but if the article had been written with any respect for truth and balance (as I assume the earlier sections were, more or less), I would have continued to simply edit for grammar and to eliminate meaningless redundancies. My own bias probably shows in my additions, but I think the result is generally closer to what a reader has a right to expect in an objective encyclopedia. The article as it was (and still is) reads like some kind of amateur campaign literature. I am boldfacing my additions that are most likely to cause offense. - Chelydra
Bush reputedly lacked interest in foreign affairs. His major changes to U.S. foreign policy included withdrawal from the 1998 Kyoto Protocol and from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with Russia, in order to pursue national missile defense. [1] International leaders also criticized Bush for withdrawing support for the International Criminal Court soon after he assumed the presidency. The administration voiced concern that the court could conceivably co-opt the authority of the United States' judicial system. [2] Bush publicly condemned the 'Stalinist' regime of Kim Jong-Il in North Korea, and expressed U.S. support for the defense of Taiwan following the stand-off in March 2001 with the People's Republic of China over the crash of a Chinese air force jet and the detention of U.S. personnel. In 2003-04, Bush authorized U.S. military intervention in Haiti and Liberia to restore order and oversee a transition to democracy. Although Bush's stands were lauded by Republicans and conservatives at home, global public opinion rose against his policies, and against America's hegemonic status the world's sole superpower.
Bush emphasized a "hands-off" approach to the conflict between Israel and Palestine in wake of rising violence and the failure of the Clinton administration's efforts to negotiate. Bush specifically disowned Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat for his support of the violence and militant groups, but following urgings from European leaders, became the first American president to embrace a two-state solution envisaging an independent Palestine existing side-by-side with Israel. Bush sponsored dialogue between Prime Ministers Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas, but continued his administration's boycott of Arafat. Bush supported Sharon's unilateral disengagement plan, and lauded the democratic elections held in Palestine following Arafat's death.
War on terrorism
The September 11th terrorist attacks were a major turning point in Bush's life and presidency. Bush was visiting an elementary school in Florida when chief of staff Andrew Card informed him that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center in New York City. Later, following news of a second plane crashing, Bush left the school and flew to an air base before returning to Washington, D.C. in the late afternoon. That evening, he addressed the nation from the Oval Office, promising a strong response to the attacks but emphasizing the need for the nation to come together and comfort the families of the victims. On September 14, he visited Ground Zero, meeting with mayor Rudy Giuliani and firefighters, policemen and volunteers. In a moment captured by press and media, Bush addressed the roused gathering from atop a heap of rubble: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." In a speech to the U.S. Congress, Bush declared war on terrorist groups and nations supporting terrorism across the world, and specifically endorsing the overthrow of the Taliban regime of Afghanistan, which had been harboring training camps for Al Qaeda militants. Bush ordered the invasion of Afghanistan, which resulted in the overthrow of the Taliban by the Northern Alliance with the help of U.S. special forces and bombing campaigns. Bush also backed secret programs to gather intelligence through the monitoring of bank funds and telephone records, and signed the controversial USA Patriot Act, which gave law enforcement agencies unprecedented powers. [3]
Iraq war Following the successful overthrow of the Taliban, the Bush administration also promoted urgent action in Iraq, stating that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and that in the post 9-11 world it was too dangerous to allow unstable regimes to possess weapons that could "potentially fall into the hands of terrorists." Bush also argued that Saddam was a threat to U.S. security, destabilized the Middle East, inflamed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and financed terrorists. CIA reports asserted that Saddam Hussein had tried to acquire nuclear material, had not properly accounted for Iraqi biological weapons and chemical weapons material in violation of U.N. sanctions, and that some Iraqi missiles had a range greater than allowed by the UN sanctions. [4]
Bush urged the United Nations to enforce Iraqi disarmament mandates, precipitating a diplomatic crisis. On November 13 2002, under UN Security Council Resolution 1441, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei led UN weapons inspectors in Iraq. Lapses in Iraqi cooperation triggered intense debate over the efficacy of inspections. UN inspection teams, after reporting some progress and demanding more time were strongly advised by the U.S. to leave Iraq four days prior to full-scale hostilities.
[5] At the urging of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, the Bush administration initially sought a UN Security Council resolution authorizing the use of military force pursuant to Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter. [6] However, upon facing vigorous opposition from several nations (primarily France and Germany, and several Security Council members who didn't appreciate the [London] Observer's revelations that their offices had been bugged by the U.S. ), the Bush administration dropped the bid for UN approval, while finalizing preparations for its invasion. The war effort was eventually joined by more than 20 other nations (most notably the United Kingdom) who were designated the " coalition of the willing". [7]
Military hostilities commenced on March 20 2003 to pre-empt Iraqi WMD deployment and remove Saddam from power, and successfully ended on May 1, 2003, when U.S. forces took control of Baghdad. The apparent success of U.S. operations would greatly increase Bush's popularity, but the U.S. forces would be challenged by public disorder, as well as increasing insurgency led by pro-Saddam and Islamist groups. The Bush administration was assailed in subsequent months following the report of the Iraq Survey Group, which found almost no trace of the weapons that the regime was said to possess. The 9/11 Commission report speculated that Saddam's government was actively attempting to acquire technology that would allow Iraq to produce WMD as soon as U.N. sanctions were lifted. [8] However, the Commission found no credible evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed stockpiles of WMD. On December 14, 2005, while discussing the WMD issue, Bush stated that "It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong." [9] However, Bush would remain unwavering when asked if the war had been worth it, and whether he would have made the same decisions if he had known more. For example, challenged by European reporters on the missing WMD issue, Bush replied by changing the subject, pointing out that "there are no more torture chambers" in Iraq - but then, perhaps remembering that Abu Grahib was starting to enter the news that very day, he quickly changed the subject back again. U.S. efforts in Iraq were supposed to be the centrepiece of Bush's grand strategic plan to discourage and defeat terrorists by removing tyrranical regimes, promoting democracy, and fostering social and economic development. As of 2006, three years after the conquest of Baghdad, the legitimacy of Iraq's new democratic process has been confirmed by the crushing electoral defeat of the Bush Administration's preferred presidential candidate, and the election of parties that demanded a speedy end of the occupation. However, economic conditions have apparently continued to deteriorate. According to the Brookings Institute's regularly updated Iraq reports, Baghdad's electricity, which was supplied for 20-24 hours every day under Saddam's rule, has steadily been reduced, down to an average of ten or twelve hours in 2004, six or eight hours in late 2005, and about four hours a day as of mid-2006. The results so far of the War on Terror, do not seem to be particularly encouraging. The Brookings Institute reports that the number of terrorist attacks worldwide in the year 2004 was 2,800. The total for 2005 was 11,111. (The Brookings chart only covers these two years.) [32]
References
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User:Dubc0724 has removed without discussion this sourced sentence from the article:
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Jan Frel (2006-07-10).
"Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?".
AlterNet. Retrieved 2006-07-10. {{
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Otherwise than this there was no citation in this article for the well know allegation of war crimes. This is clearly intended to censor disliked point of views. --
BMF81 12:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I readded this criticism with an additional source into the "Wars" section. -- ElKevbo 17:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
A very large part of this article is about Bush's first term. I would like to remove alot of it, as it goes into excessive detail. Any objections? Green caterpillar 02:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone can fix the signature and make it transparent. ~ Neo139 9:20pm, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I added Bush to that category, because he played rugby union for Yale university [33]. If you want to dispute it, please go on my talk page.-- Hamedog Talk| @ 10:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
In the Criticism and public perception section, the article states:
This is clearly a mistake (the September "following" early 2006 hasn't happened yet), but even if the word "following" should be "previous", it still doesn't match what is seen in the accompanying graph. According to it, his approval ratings in early 2006 were (perhaps) slightly higher than in October and November of 2005, but certainly not September. - dcljr ( talk) 10:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 40 | ← | Archive 42 | Archive 43 | Archive 44 | Archive 45 | Archive 46 | → | Archive 50 |
Shouldn't the activity by John Conyers calling for the censure (and perhaps impeachment) of Bush be listed under the crticisim section? This seems significant. ADDED: sorry about the series of wonky edits. I'm a newbie and I broke some stuff on the talk page somehow which I seem to have fixed (somehow) Numskll 15:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Impeach_Bush here is a wikipedia article that references Conyers Numskll 15:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Being recognized as Person of the Year is not an honor, according to the magazine. Therefore, this does not belong under his "perceptions," unless to show that he is influential. I believe that it is critical to make this specific distinction by describing the title in this article.
True. Hitler was person of the year. ~~
-- Time Magazine selects its 'Person of the Year' as being the person who had the biggest effect on the year's news. This is even mentioned as such in the Wikipedia article on the magazine. Kilraven 17:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
bush is clearly out of his mind get those dang troops outta iraq ya stinky head!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.252.171 ( talk • contribs)
No the crusade is not over, we still need to convert the infidels.
Shouldn't this banner be at the beginning of the article rather than at the end?
Would it hurt to note that some historians consider him the worst president ever?
I'm sure. Good luck with that.
Its really scary how some REALLY think that Bush cares a f*** about the people in Iraq. But if you live in any country of the world, it must be hard to admit that your country is doing evil, because the evil deserves punishment. 200.95.132.229 17:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)PEACEKEEPER
Quote- "How does any president's reputation sink so low? The reasons are best understood as the reverse of those that produce presidential greatness. In almost every survey of historians dating back to the 1940s, three presidents have emerged as supreme successes: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt. These were the men who guided the nation through what historians consider its greatest crises: the founding era after the ratification of the Constitution, the Civil War, and the Great Depression and Second World War. Presented with arduous, at times seemingly impossible circumstances, they rallied the nation, governed brilliantly and left the republic more secure than when they entered office. Calamitous presidents, faced with enormous difficulties -- [James] Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, [Herbert] Hoover and now Bush -- have divided the nation, governed erratically and left the nation worse off. In each case, different factors contributed to the failure: disastrous domestic policies, foreign-policy blunders and military setbacks, executive misconduct, crises of credibility and public trust. Bush, however, is one of the rarities in presidential history: He has not only stumbled badly in every one of these key areas, he has also displayed a weakness common among the greatest presidential failures -- an unswerving adherence to a simplistic ideology that abjures deviation from dogma as heresy, thus preventing any pragmatic adjustment to changing realities. Repeatedly, Bush has undone himself, a failing revealed in each major area of presidential performance." title -- Summer 19:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed with Gzuckier's last point. If you want to complain about Bush, go here -- Kchase02 ( T) 03:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Anyone who calls Bush the worst president ever is ignorant of history and appealing only to their dislike of the man, not his policies. I don't like Bush either, but I would prefer if people kept their complaints about him to the facts. If you're a Republican, there are many others that can be considered worse. If you're a Democrat? Nixon, possibly Reagan, Andrew Johnson perhaps, Herbert Hoover. And proper Libertarians would place Bush no higher than 4th on the all-time worst list. That said, let's get back to discussing the article. -- Golbez 20:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Gzuckier 20:22, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
While I wouldn't say that he was the "Worst Ever" you could say that his popularity polls fell lower that any president the United States has ever had. The difference is that this is undisputed fact as opposed to opinion. However, I think this is already in the article. Alshain 19:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
It is worth noting that other presidents, like Harry Truman, had lower approval ratings during his presidency than President Bush. Truman's ratings went as low as 22% in the Gallup poll. It led to his decision not to run for a third term (being the last eligible to do so). He is now considered among the better presidents. Criddic 23:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It would be most accurate to state, "Gzuckier believes Bush to be the worst president ever." Not really relevant for an encyclopedia, but gets to the heart of this debate . . . . . people's opinions about Bush. --Jedunc 67.189.110.131 02:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
We really should post the article with the opinion of the american public on Bush. That is all I want to say, because I don't see how that is not important in an encyclopedia. I'm sure someone will make a remake about that though. -- Salem XIII 10:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
This article is voicing out lots of opinions. It is not a real encyclopdia article anymore. I personally hate Bush, but that might not be some other people's views. People, write only facts, and maybe a few opinions on Bush's crazy attempts to go on war against Iraq, and now, probably North Korea. -- Haha169 16:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
We simply can't note that he may be considered the worst president. As someone said before, the American Civil War was extremely controversial when it happened. Half of the people in the Union wanted to fight it, and half wanted to recognize Confederate independence. Yet nobody today thinks that staying in the Civil War was a bad decision. The same may go for any issue currently in occurence. There will always be polarization, so to say that some people think he's the worst ever is unimportant. This is for FACT, not OPINION. We are not writing about the polarized and/or possibly radical opinions some people hold. We are writing about factual elements of his presidency, such as legislation, treaties, etc.
I am indeed saying "that people shouldn't judge Bush yet; and therefore Wikipedia shouldn't notice that people are judging Bush now", as Gzuckier put it. It's pointless. Anyway, many who edit this article seem so hateful of Bush they probably shouldn't edit here. Remeber NPOV? There are plenty of apolitical people who can make up for the loss. -- CommKing 13:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
It would be perfectly fine to add in polls as long as you note the time of the study and who it was done by. You could add it under a new section, popularity. You would have to use the same poll over a period of time, and make sure not to misrepresent information. And for the record, Bush is an idiot. But, you can't just write that in an encyclopedia. That's something Bush would do. Oh, and would the blind Bush followers save us the whole "you're blinded by a hate of Bush" speech. We're not. But this isn't the place to argue about that. Oh, and at least have the guts to sign your name. Stop Me Now! 21:45, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Sometimes, I wonder why so many people can not just write their criticisms of George W. Bush on a personal blog instead of on Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia, not a dirt sheet or critic's page. I doubt this page will ever be free again. So many people are in love with Dubya-bashing yet they'll praise a drug-addicted actor. User:Brighat 14:18, July 11th 2006 (UTC)
I'm not aware enough of the poll figures but it seems odd to me that there are people so willing to quote about how Lincoln was so unpopular and then became popular and dispute that we should report that currently George W Bush is unpopular. The poll results for Hoover or Lincoln, the public opinion had to be recorded somewhere so that we would know today that they were unpopular or perhaps less popular than they have become. I think the progression of public opinion about GWBush during his presidency and later after as well is noteworthy. Omishark 15:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree that reporting on the president's poll ratings is noteworthy, and should be included in the article. I disagree that he should be labeled "The Worst President Ever" simply based on those ratings, since Truman had lower ratings and he clearly is not noted as the "Worst President Ever" because of those ratings. I agree that the comparison to Lincoln's popularity is valid - before (and even during) the civil war, Lincoln's actions were highly controversial, and there were even calls for his impeachment. I disagree that this aspect of Lincoln's presidency has any real relevance to the current article on George Bush, as Lincoln's final job performance and historical impact was something that was assessed decades after his death, and his popularity and approval grew as the true historical contributions of the man became apparent in the light of further events. History may judge that Bush has done well, or may judge that he has done poorly. However, as with Lincoln, this is a decision historians of the future will make, not commentators or writers of today. I would like to add the comment, however, that including his poll ratings as a graph is a double-edged sword, because the production of the graph is, by definition, original research. Data was gathered by an editor, formatted on a graph and presented in the article to show something that the original data did not. I agree that it is much clearer and easier to understand than the original source. however, reformatting the original source data in this manner fits the definition of "any new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis of published data" as explained at WP:NOR and is original research. Xaa 08:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
This sentence is incorrect: "As of August 2, 2000, Bush had visited the ranch 49 times during his time as president, accruing 319 days away from the White House and nearly reaching Reagan’s eight-year record of 335 days in 5.5 years.[citation needed]". George Bush was inaugurated in January 2001 so the year on this date has to be incorrect. 35.11.38.58 04:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)Sayrah
The reference referred to the year 2005, according to [2]. I have since corrected the error (a.m.a.i.w.t.f.v.t.a.). Autopilots 08:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
All this talk about presidential ratings is ridiculous. The reason Bush is considered to be possibly the worst ever is the media. The reason so many have been influenced to this opinion is the media. Did we have such extensive internet, television, radio, magazines, newspapers, etc. during the terms of all other presidents? Did we have anything near the equivalent? It is a fact of life that the great people are the ones who are hated the most. Great people see a hard road ahead of them with failure and loss of popularity, and they take it anyway, even when there's a chance to turn back. I don't mean to say the George Bush is one of those people; all I'm saying is that anyone who takes the position of president, such an important role, is going to be hated by someone or other, and with media that is based more on opinion or agenda than dedication to truth, presidents in the information age will be more hated than any of the other presidents or leaders in history. Politicians are most hated of people in the world as far as I know, and that is because their task is so important. It's courageous to sacrifice your life and reputation to serve your country as current politicians are doing.
some_dude
Where does this nickname come from, if I wiki it, I just get a redirect to this page. -- Ktp72 09:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I think this entire talk page is an effort to find a civil alternative to personal attacks.
Well, this is just an opinion, and only mine, so I'm sure it's not "notable;" however, I'm going to insert it here. The point of the New York Times article is very simple:
Although it reports factual findings from previous articles, it is an opinion piece. As I've been told many times, "Wikipedia is not the place for opinions."
This being said, the Bush article can be restructured to present the factual premises as fact, and the opinion stuff as "related opinion."
To those who think that Rush Limbaugh's conservatism is equal to the Times's Liberalism, I disagree, to put it mildly. The Times is much more centrist than Limbaugh. A better comparison would be Limbaugh to Mother Jones.
To those who say the article on Bush is couched in right wing bias, I heartily agree. One only has to read the German Wikipedia pages to see the difference (I can read German, so I can tell). Now, I don't mean that we should only post Mr. Bush's shortcomings in the article. We should include any successes he's had in life, as well. In my opinion, however, there are damned few successes, if any.
Just food for thought...
TheKurgan 05:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
I have to aggree with TheKurgan. The GWBush page is still larded with intermittent right-wing bias, although it's slowly improving, and is a lot better than it used to be. I realize that it's hard to deal with the Bush worshippers, who often claim that facts are "biased opinion", as "FairNBalanced" has amply demonstrated. Sometimes there are not two sides of an issue, but the "he-said she-said" style makes it seem as if there are.
Example: "Bush’s supporters respond that broad powers in the War on Terrorism are necessary to prevent major attacks against the United States [25] and that the president has not abused these powers. [26]" Obviously the President has abused those powers: we already know that he sent an innocent Canadian to be tortured in Syria (Maher Arar), and threw out his lawsuit for damages based on an implausible "state secrets" claim; locked a US citizen up for years without bringing him to trial, only to admit that there was no particular reason not to bring him to trial (Jose Padilla); and those are just the most obvious examples.
Mentioning that Bush supporters believe that the President has not abused his power, without mentioning that they're clearly wrong, is in fact a biased presentation.
Another example. In "Foreign Policy", regarding the so-called "missile defense system". "The American Physical Society criticized this policy change, citing doubts about the system’s effectiveness. [45]" These weren't "doubts", these were certainties. Everyone who's looked into it seriously knows that the system doesn't work *at all*. It couldn't even work properly in tests which were *blatantly rigged in its favor*. This is pretty much covered in the APS criticism.
Meanwhile, pro-Bush sections intermittently present opinion as fact. "A 1985 meeting with evangelist Billy Graham ultimately led Bush to devote himself to a more serious practice of Christianity [27], giving up alcohol, and beginning a pivotal phase in his life and career." Pure opinion, and hagiography too. Many would contend that Bush is not seriously practicing Christianity.
Unfortunately, this renders English Wikipedia a poor source for current affairs information. I'm not sure if there's any way within the Wiki medium to prevent the intrusion of anti-fact biases, though.
Incidentally, some improvements in coverage which could be made for the G.W.Bush page are: (1) "signing statements": related constitutional and rule-of-law issues. (a) Note that Bush applies these differently from previous presidents; while previous Presidents used them to declare that they were going to bring cases to court regarding constitutionality, Bush has used them to declare his intention to disregard a law *without* bringing a case to court. (b) Note that Bush applied such a statement to the McCain anti-torture bill (Or link to a full-length article on the topic.)
(2) Add discussion of issues relating to the extremely heavy use of recess appointments
(3) Discuss the controversy regarding the constitutionality of so-called "faith-based initiatives" (Or link to a full-length article on the topic.)
(4) Discuss Bush's illegal (in violation of FISA) domestic spying programs. (a) Note that Bush specifically stated to Congress in 2001 that he did not want any further amendments to FISA. (b) Note that he then started the programs in violation of FISA, without informing Congress. (Or link to a full-length article on the topic.)
(5) Cover the administration's well-documented penchant for secrecy, and the criticisms thereof.
(6) Cover the administration's aggressive responses to people who disagree with them.
(7) Cover foreign reaction to the Bush administration.
(8) Cover the case in which Bush signed a "law" not passed by both houses of Congress.
Most of these deserve links to full articles. In some cases, the articles already exist, but the links aren't clearly arranged.
There's almost no point in editing a controversial page on Wikipedia though, so I won't try. 24.59.100.172 18:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC) ANON May 25, 2006 24.59.100.172 18:09, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Since it is only an opinion that the president has engaged in unlawful activity or that he has abused his powers, I would not expect this site to use such rhetoric when documenting the Presidency of George W. Bush. If the courts and/or Congress were to judge that he did abuse his powers, then it would be of note. For example, if the House of Representatives impeached the president for "high crimes and misdemeanors" it would obviously have to be included. This is unlikely to happen, although not impossible at this point. There is no direct evidence to suggest that these claims are true, which is why the topic is controversial. Criddic 01:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me, but where is the new user who may have never edited Wikipedia before told that this page is the exception and not the norm when it comes to Wikipedia? I think that the semi-protection tag should be re-inserted in the article to make it very clear that the rest of Wikipedia is open. From what I see, there isn't even a tag on the talk page and the article doesn't even belong in the semi-protection category. Ronline ? 01:14, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
If the article is semi-protected, then the article has to say that. If people don't like the template been in, then unprotect the page. Leaving it semiprotected and then hiding the fact though not having a template is dishonest and not an option. FearÉIREANN \ (caint) 03:36, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if this is currently possible, but the way it should be is to inform potential editors that they cannot edit this page (due to semi-protection) after they click on the "edit" link. I.e. clicking on the "edit" link should bring non-eligible editors to a page that explains semi-protection and why they are currently ineligible. There should be no indication on the article page itself about the semi-protection - such notices are highly distracting for the huge majority of Wikipedia users who are readers, not editors. The primary purpose of Wikipedia is to provide an encyclopedia, not to provide facilities for editors. Editing is a means to an end, not an end in itself, thus Wikipedia should be optimized for readers, not for editors. - Hayne 17:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Is anyone planning to add information about these two concepts into this biography. Granted, Bush was not the first to espouse this doctrine, but he is the first to take it as far as it has gone. JJ4sad6 20:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I have found an excellent source of information about Bush's Immigration Reform. The link should be included somewheres in the Immigration section 4.5.6. This is the link:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/immigration/
Maybe you could add a See Also section under the Immigration section, but I'd rather a link in the text itself.
Jake 17:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Should this be in the article somewhere? Bush told a German newspaper a few weeks ago that, since taking office in 2001, "the best moment of all was when I caught a 7.5lb (3.4kg) perch in my lake." [3] Of course, that can't be true, since the largest perch on record in the US is under 5 pounds. He said the worst moment was 9/11. — 0918 BRIAN • 2006-05-31 19:42
Is anyone going to keep up with the Economy Section? If not then try to leave out monthly stats as they change so often. Also this part Private employment (seasonally adjusted) originally decreased under Bush from 111,680,000 in December 2000 to 108,250,000 in mid-2003. The economy then added private jobs for 25 consecutive months from (July 2003 to August 2005), and the private employment seasonally adjusted numbers increased as of June 2005 when it reached 111,828,000. Considering population growth, that still represents a 4.6% decrease in employment since Bush took office is a year old and seems wrong anyways. The 4.6% seems way wrong by basic math and why isn't this kind of specific info linked? -- Kswanks 15:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Should the Treasury spot on the administration chart be changed? John Snow resigned, and Henry M. Paulson, Jr. was nominated. -- Stonesour025 01:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone noticed the failure vandalism, in that the page is a redirect to this article? I tried to change it, but it was protected. 138.162.5.8
When it says in the first paragraph that his term expires on the 20th, it should say 12:00 Eastern time on January 20th
Llosoc, would you mind explaining your reasons for adding these tags? You should be aware that explaining the specific problems you found is a requirement of applying any of the various NPOV and POV tags to an article. So, what specifically is POV? Kasreyn 23:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I asked him yesterday on his Talk page to explain them, he has not, so I have removed them. User:Zoe| (talk) 16:28, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I have read that Daddy Bush told Jr. that before he would help him get a political career going he needed to go out "and make his money". Bush started his oil company in Texas as a result (with financing from some of daddy's friends). Contrary to popular rumor, it WAS actually able to find oil in Texas. However, it went under because the company could not produce oil priced below $15/barrel and the market price at the time was $9/barrel and lost the investors money. Within a year he became an alcoholic and got his DUI. I believe all of this is accurate and verifiable and should be included in the article by someone. It really adds a backdrop to the Iraq war and the high oil prices as it points out that Bush's greatest personal failure (of making it on his own after Daddy told him to go out on his own) was because of low oil prices.
Can this be verified? I did read in the book "Parents of the Presidents" that the greatest comparison between the Bush family and the Kennedy family is that all the Bush men have had to create their own fortunes as adults before they could share in the family wealth, whereas the Kennedys got their inheritence upon becoming adults. But we also must remember that President George W. Bush also gained a lot from selling his share in the Texas Rangers before becoming governor of Texas. Criddic 23:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Defense of Marriage act passed in '94 garners no metion in this article, or even any attention from Bush himself. He keeps attempting to use the amendment process, which he has no real power to use directly, without looking at laws established already. I'm not saying include a biased point like that, just a note about the already passed Defense of Marriage act. Under Clinton, for God's sake! -- CmdrClow
Despite the fact that the Defense of Marraige law exists, President Bush has stated that the reason he wants an amendment is to prevent "activist judges" from overturning each state's legislation on the issue. Criddic 23:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
That is hardly unprecedented. It goes back to the early years of the presidency, with arguments made by Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton. Presidents who prefer stronger executive power are usually confronted with major military decisions or other major issues, requiring massive reforms or more immediate actions. Presidents Lincoln, FDR, and others, have asserted this viewpoint at various times. I doubt President Bush would have done so without the events of 9/11. Whether he oversteps his boundaries is for the Congress to decide. Criddic 05:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm rather curious about the recent changes to this section and their immediate removal with the edit summary of trimming POV material... is the Boston Globe not considered a reliable source? What is POV about noting a sworn deposition, or the opinion of a former assistant secretary of defense?
I feel that the user who removed these remarks is unclear on what "NPOV" means. "NPOV" does not mean "make sure you take an equal number of viewpoints from both right and left, and keep them even at all times." Ridiculous, especially since American concepts of "right" and "left" are not globally accepted. "NPOV" means primarily that claims must be presented in an unbiased manner, without verbiage or structuring that would deliberately frame or bias the reader. It also means not to give undue weight to certain minority viewpoints. Examining the sections removed, I do not see evidence of POV phrasing or verbiage, nor do I think they are being given undue weight. Perhaps the editor who removed them felt they were not notable, or that the Boston Globe was misquoted or is unreliable. These are all other reasons for removal of content. But I'm just not seeing the POV here. Surely a military officer swearing a deposition that he abused his authority is notable in the article on the man that abuse benefited? Surely the opinion of a former assistant secretary of state is notable on the subject of alleged dereliction of duty - an assistant secretary of defense for manpower and reserve affairs, no less!
I must say I'm puzzled. Kasreyn 02:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
According to several experts who examined his record, no.
US News obtained and reviewed Bush's National Guard records and disputes the Bush line that he fufilled the technical requirements of his service.
A recent examination of the records by U.S. News does not appear to support Lloyd's conclusions. Among the issues identified by the magazine:
"The White House used an inappropriate–and less stringent–Air Force standard in determining that President Bush fulfilled his National Guard duty. Even using this lesser standard, the president did not attend enough drills to complete his obligation to the Guard during his final year of service. During the final two years of his service obligation, Bush did not comply with Air Force regulations that impose a time limit on making up missed drills. Instead, he took credit for makeup drills he participated in outside that time frame. Five months of drills missed by the President in 1972 were never made up, contrary to assertions made by the White House." [1]
This contradicts the article's claim (before my edit) that Bush "fully completed his required time in service obligations." It also means the citation of the number of points Bush earned is misleading since every year he is above the quota, but it is not mentioned that more is required that simply meeting the quota of 50 points.
IworkforNASA deleted several key facts I added, including that a former Texas Speaker of the House swore under oath that he pulled strings to get Bush into his particular unit ahead of many others on the waitlist. He also slanted the article to make it appear that only "left-leaning" groups investigated or called attention to Bush's record. In fact the two investigations I cited included the Boston Globe's and US News, which is generally considered a slightly right-of-center newsmagazine. I also quoted critizism of Bush's record by a Reagan Administration official.
These should not have been deleted, and I am restoring him. If he feels more balance should be added, I invite him add additional discussion and facts, and to provide citations to these facts.
It is also misleading to simply say that Bush was honorably discharged without mentioning the fact that this does not mean that he fulfilled all of his duties, but simply that the military choose not to make a case against his honorable discharge. As the New Republic's article on the issue notes:
"John Allen Muhammad, convicted last November for his participation in the D.C. sniper shootings, served in the Louisiana National Guard from 1978-1985, where he faced two summary courts-martial. In 1983, he was charged with striking an officer, stealing a tape measure, and going AWOL. Sentenced to seven days in the brig, he received an honorable discharge in 1985."
If we are going to note that Bush was honorably discharged, then the context and meaning of being discharged, especially in 1974 when the military was very eager to shed soliders due to the end of the war, needs to be explained. Kitteneatkitten 02:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is there a link at the bottom of the page to a Scientology/Remote Viewing page, when the topic is never mentioned in the body of the article? 67.127.59.112 11:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)Kevin
An AFD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accusations of rape against United States presidents seems to be converging on a merge decision. That would involve moving the information into this article. 69.181.124.51 05:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Some of the arguments being made over there reveal to me a lack of understanding of the editing dynamics of major political articles. A merge is wrong, these allegations are an incredibly small part of the notability of the presidents. The allegations derive notability from the presidents, not the reverse. Deletion is wrong, even if these are frivolous, because these are reasonably well-known and have been published by the media. This provides a place for a neutral factual descriptions rather than conspiracy blog-rantings. I could see splitting the article into four, but I'm not sure why that's a better organization.
Anyway, Jimbo regards the AFD process as broken, because it gives control to editors with no experience or demonstrated interest in an area. I'm beginning to agree. I certainly don't think a discussion of a probable schizophrenic's lawsuit belongs in this article. I also think that it, and the others, are well-known enough that a brief discussion somewhere else is useful to the readers, and that's our purpose after all. Derex 17:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Ironically, I had never heard of the rape allegation against Bush until 69.181.124.51 mentioned the article. I wonder about the propriety of coming here apparently to recruit voters to stop the merge. Kasreyn 00:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
The funding of $15 Billion refered to in the AIDS portion of this page fails to address the reality of AIDS funding under the Bush administration. The President's Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) is in fact a partial redistribution of existing funds committed to AIDS relief around the globe. The actual amount of new funding is $9 billion while the rest was already earmarked for AIDS relief. However, PEPFAR has placed restrictions on the distrbution of funding to countries based on their current form of government, the types of AIDS programs currently in place and political/religious views. In short, the president has politicized AIDS relief. For instance, countries that have programs that do not advocate abstinence until marriage receive less or no funding than countries that do. This has resulted in 14 so called focus countries that will receive a majority of the funding. Also, PEPFAR limits the total amount of funding to 3 billion dollars over 5 years, with each fiscal year requiring a budget to be set by congress. This means that the entire 3 billion for each year may not be actually allocated to AIDS relief. 3 billion is merely the maximum amount which can be budgeted.
I believe the above should be included in the AIDS section of this page which in its current form fails to accurately depict the implications of PEPFAR implemented by Bush.
More emphasis should be placed on the fact that the Bush administration pushes "Abstinence Only" programs. Having spent time in Ethiopia, I can attest to the fact that refusing to include condom education leads to increased spread of the virus.
72.139.184.107 14:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Is Bush's use of signing statements covered anywhere in Wikipedia (Boston Globe, April 30 [5]; or see here for a shorter comment on the issue)? Rd232 talk 10:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the Trivia section. It only had one item listed: "George W. Bush Appears as the first query found for the term 'Failure' when searched on the engine Google." This is not a noteable fact in this already very long article. -- ElKevbo 16:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Good call, ElKevbo, especially considering the fact that the Bush/failure/Google fact is true only because of the Google bombing phenomenon. (see Google bomb) I'm not saying I'm pro-Bush, I'm just debunking the validity to Google's ranking of Bush as a failure. -- User: Minaker
It is notable because this bomb reflects the public perception of Bush. The bomb affects not just Google - it also affects Yahoo! Search, MSN Search and others. I think it should go into section 4.6 on public perception of Bush. I added it, but was blocked by NSLE. -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:50, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
This isn't "George W. Bush" trivia precisely. It's a bit more universal than that, but it certainly involves him and the way he is described in this article as the "43rd President." 43rd, huh? So we've had 43 U.S. Presidents. ... Name 'em. Grover Cleveland served two nonconsecutive terms. Big deal. He's still only one person. I am sick of the silence over this issue. Clinton didn't count twice. Neither did Roosevelt and he was elected four times! There have been 42 men elected to the office of U.S. President so far. George W. Bush is the most recent. Therefore it follows that George W. Bush can be considered the 42nd man elected President.
While this is technically true, the fact is that Cleveland WAS elected before and after Benjamin Harrison, which makes him the 22nd and 24th presidents. Had he been elected consecutively, he would have been counted only once. His historic feat disrupted the order. Therefore, President Bush is counted as number 43, despite being the 42nd person elected to the office. Criddic 05:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Anyone else heard about W.'s affair with Condi, and Laura staying at a hotel? I though I saw something on the Wayne Masden Report.-- wakefencer
I've added a sentence mentioning Bush's controversial Jesus Day proclamation [6] to the religion section of the article. Any comments and/or objections?-- ? TBC ? (aka Tree Biting Conspiracy) 23:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand why Schrodinger's Mongoose considers this not to be controversial... but I have no desire to engage in a revert war, so hopefully he will discuss it here with me. In an effort to provide various points of view, I've added a notation of the criticism of this proclamation by two groups (AJC and AU). Kasreyn 06:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey...no offense intended, I just removed the word "controversial" to keep things neutral. If something is to be called "controversial" I thought there should probably be a citation...which obviously has now been found. However, I don't think "refuseandresist.org", a hard-core socialist website, is the best place to link to. The original source is a legit NYT article, so I agree it should stay, but can anyone find a better link than Refuse and Resist? Schrodingers Mongoose 16:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Did anybody see the Larry King Live episode where Bush disses McCain's war service? I found it to be very disheartening and disrespectful to McCain and all veterans. I think it is a notable subject and a good display of Bush's poor character. Therefore, I think it should be included in this wikipedia article.
The fact that you want to use Wikipedia to demonstrate the president's "poor character" indicates your proposed change is a bad idea. Read up on POV. 65.95.142.241 17:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
OK then. How about somebody else writes it to allow readers to come to their own conclusion about his character? MLSmateo 21:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
its not a pov if you just state what was said and allow the reader to draw there own conclusion, no matter what the intenetion of the writer is.
This article was taken off the BBC (English, not American news) website:
America was itself to blame for the events of September 11 because the US administration was using "kid gloves" in tracking down Osama bin Laden and "other fanatics linked to Saudi Arabia", a special BBC investigation has alleged in a damning indictment of the two presidents Bush and American foreign policy.
The report, which the BBC claimed was based on a secret FBI document, numbered 199I WF213589 and emanating out of the FBI’s Washington field office, alleged that the cynicism of the American establishment and "connections between the CIA and Saudi Arabia and the Bush men and bin Ladens" may have been the real cause of the deaths of thousands in the World Trade Centre attacks.
The investigation, which featured in the BBC’s leading current affairs programme, Newsnight, said the FBI was told to "back off" investigating one of Osama bin Laden’s brothers, Abdullah, who was linked to "the Saudi-funded World Association of Muslim Youth (WAMY), a suspected terrorist organisation," whose accounts have still not frozen by the US treasury despite "being banned by Pakistan some weeks ago and India claiming it was linked to an organisation involved in bombing in Kashmir".
Newsnight said there was a long history of "shadowy" American connections with Saudi Arabia, not least the two presidents Bush’s "business dealings" with the bin Ladens and another more insidious link revealed by the former head of the American visa section in Jeddah.
The official said he had been concerned about visas issued to large numbers of "unqualified" men "with no family links or any links with America or Saudi Arabia", only to find out later that it "was not visa fraud" but part of a scheme in which young men "recruited by Osama bin Laden" were being sent for "terrorist training by the CIA" after which they were sent on to Afghanistan.
In a reiteration of a now well-known claim by one of George W Bush’s former business partners, the BBC said he made his first million 20 years ago on the back of a company financed by Osama’s elder brother, Salem Bin Laden. But it added the more disturbing assertion that both presidents Bush had lucrative stakes along with the bin Ladens in Carlyle Corporation, a small private company which has gone on to become one of America's biggest defence contractors. The bin Ladens sold their stake in Carlyle soon after September 11, it said.
American politicians later told the BBC programme that they rejected the accusation that the establishment had called the dogs of the intelligence agencies off the bin Ladens and the royal House of Saud because of a strategic interest in Saudi Arabia, which has the world's biggest oil reserve.
I find this a bit disturbing to include. The Bin Ladens officially denounced Osama years ago. Is this meant to imply a Bush connection to 9/11? There's no evidence to support such a claim. Criddic 23:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
It shows the facts. This article doesn't mention Clinton because the article we are talking about is NOT Bill Clinton, it is Goerge W. Bush. This shows the cold hard facts and not including would show a lack of comittment to the NPOV. Just because the facts don't support your view doesn't mean they aren't facts. Stop Me Now! 16:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
... the "List of resignations from the George W. Bush Administration" page, which is linked from the 'See also' section at the bottom of this page: George W. Bush Administration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.207.80.59 ( talk • contribs) .
how can this article pretend to be neutral when it opennly and unabashedly sites obvious partasain "news" sourcs like the New York Times, the BBC, The Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, and even CBS "news"? all of which have an open and on the reckord partasain bias, more importantly the writing on all of those isn't even good enough to line my bird cage. what a joke— (Kepin) RING THE LIBERTY BELL 23:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
see: http://www.weeklyradioaddress.com/WRA20051001.htm
I note that this category was removed, but the reasons were unclear. If it's not a category, then fine...but Bush WAS nominated for the peace prize in 2002. Can the editor explain why he/she thinks this is "a joke"? Schrodingers Mongoose 17:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I created a petition to Pope Benedict that I would like to add to the George W. Bush article. I don't think this should be deleted by administrators.
Pistolpierre 22:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
I am still not sure why dubya insists on using the gesture of the "mano cornuta, horned hand". It is my belief that this topic deserves more attention. Are we to believe that this is nothing more than his family/ and organizations' devotion to the University of Texas ?
Should this article mention that the George Bush article holds a record on wikipedia as the most vandalised page on wikipedia? 195.93.21.137 10:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
meine lustigen Haar tatses, etwas Käse über dem Internet schicken Sie mir bitte, bevor der Affe meine Huhnkuh tötet -- 152.163.100.74 21:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Since I can't edit this page being a new user, could someone please fix the "In office since" line in the infobox, right now it just says {{{term_start}}}. Thanks, Newnam 02:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I just spent some time cleaning up the external links (mostly references) in this article. Somehow (vandalism? carelessness?) a space had been inserted between the opening bracket and the URL thus causing the links to display improperly. Please be careful when adding or editing external links. And please try to insert new references in a format consistent with existing references. Feel to drop me a line on my Talk page or here on this Talk page if you have any questions or need any help! -- ElKevbo 03:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Can someone check upon the Neo-fascism#Neo-Fascism and the United States piece. I find the inclusions (starting at the Chomsky bit) all very suspect. Intangible 18:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm rather concerned about a major rewrite of the "Life before Presidency" section done by Rama's Arrow several days ago. I only just now noticed. For one thing, links to the main articles on some topics, such as the substance abuse controversy, seem to have been removed from the main body, making it less likely the reader will notice them. I don't feel the edit was really an improvement. It seems rather muddled and mashed-together now. Kasreyn 23:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1562473 )while W Bush has not - as shown by the examples in the above entry. There is not even a reference via a link to the above wiki entry on rendition, nor any reference to other civil rights changes under W Bush such as the Patriot Act that was being written 7 months prior to 9/11, as well as the NSA changes to record domestic citizen communications via calls/internet that also began in Feb 2001.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abIV0cO64zJE&refer= Spy Agency Sought U.S. Call Records Before 9/11, Lawyers Say http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/02/feinstein-briefed Feinstein: I Wasn't Briefed On Bank Records Program until they knew
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-30-nsa_x.htm Lawmakers: NSA database incomplete http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20060619-124811-3332r
All of the arguments in favor of warrantless domestic surveillance start with the Argumentum in Terrorum -9/11 (but surveillance started 7 months earlier) http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w060130&s=heymannposner013106
"In sum, while the full protections that accompany challenges to detentions in other settings may prove unworkable and inappropriate in the enemy-combatant setting, the threats to military operations posed by a basic system of independent review are not so weighty as to trump a citizen's core rights to challenge meaningfully the Government's case and to be heard by an impartial adjudicator."
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=03-6696
Patriot Act http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/acf13a1.pdf
I'm seeing way too much of the former and absolutely nothing on the latter. If anything, the UN resolution(s) violations by Saddam are what the administration maintains was their basis for war with Iraq. I'm pretty upset that wiki is missing this vital info, but I don't have the required experience to update it myself.
It may be premature right now because it is still in the news, but I think that at least one line or so ought to be included regarding the rather unusually strong friendship between Junichiro Koizumi and GW Bush. Other than the obvious controversial issues, this fact is turning out to be one of the more defining aspects of his Presidency. Perhaps in the "Foreign Policy" section. [9] -- The Yar 18:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
The phrasing "However, cuts were distributed disproportionately to higher income taxpayers" is questionable: while the total dollar value was greater for higher-income taxpayers, the effect of the changes in the tax code were to make the overall tax burden more progressive, with more tax revenue coming from high income taxpayers. Suggest correcting this to "While net savings were greater for higher-income taxpayers, the overall effect was to cause the tax burden to fall more upon these high-income taxpayers, resulting in a more 'progressive' tax code." -- Charlie (Colorado) 06:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I just edited it to say "Arguably" tax cuts were distributed disproportionately, but the results were also more progressive. That seems to get both views in. -- Charlie (Colorado) 18:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
This article lacks a npov because it has verry little discussion of the negative points of the subject. user:bob000555 9:58 2 Jully 2006 (east time zone)
i think a link to this video should be included to reinforcve the article including the section where he himself is quoted as saying he has drank too muhc in the past Qrc2006 02:22, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
WHO THINKS IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED OR NOT???? Qrc2006 23:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Who wrote that he is self-proclaimed war President??? It is the stupidest thing I have read! sasha_best
Hi all - I'm sorry for the delay in making further revisions and making this article an FA. I will be able to start work tomorrow for sure. Rama's Arrow 14:30, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
dubya has presenile dementia. why is this neglected in the article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickapeadeea ( talk • contribs)
A line in the article states "Following failed diplomatic efforts to coax Saddam Hussein into yielding to weapons inspections, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq..." Now, I'm not positive about htis, but I do believe weapons inspectors were allowed into Iraq, and that their efforts actually had to be postponed when the U.S. invaded Iraq. Can someone check up on this and get back to me? I don't want to remove the line without being certain that it is, indeed, false. tmopkisn tlka 22:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't have sources, but I do remember inspectors were allowed back into Iraq in early 2003, but within the first week they were again blocked from visting sites they wanted to vist and reported this violation to the head of the IAEA and the National Security Council. They were, I believe, evacuated approx 5 days prior to the 48 hour ultimatium. -- mitrebox 07:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
He is officially 60 years old now. Wow.-- Chili14( Talk| Contribs) 01:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
i am rather shocked by Rama Arrow's "comprehensive rewrite" of 2006-06-26 11:52:06. it seems to me that the article was not rewritten but rather gutted. an incredible amount of information was removed, much of it in my opinion clearly relevant and important. first of all, i am bothered by what seems to me a significant reduction in the depth and relevance of information here, and what seems to me to be a pro-Bush bias in the complete revamping of this entry. secondly, i do not see anything in the discussion section proposing this massive change. i did not do a thorough review, but i would certainly expect such an audacious maneuver to have its own section in the talk page--BEFORE making the edit.
since some time has gone by and numerous edits have been made since the massive rewrite, it will be tricky to salvage the deleted info while preserving newer edits, but worthwhile in my opinion. i'm not sure exactly what to propose... but i certainly think that it would be more in keeping with the spirit of wikipedia to discuss the REMOVAL of valid information, rather than have to pre-emptively justify its inclusion, so what i'd like to see is the old, deeper, more complete version restored, incorporating any factual corrections, additions, or useful reorganizations made by Rama Arrow and others (but NOT undiscussed deletions of valid relevant material); then if a case can be made for removals, each removal can be discussed on a case-by-case basis (not referring of course to vandalism here, or to pieces of information so blatantly reflecting "original research" or complete irrelevance that there will be no argument to deletion provided a specific rationale is given in the revision comment).
(changes made in the rewrite: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=George_W._Bush&diff=prev&oldid=60711688)
if i'm wrong about how wikipedia is supposed to work, please let me know. i'm not sure i have time to undertake this project anyway, but i would appreciate comments about the idea. tej 07:53, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
A big issue is stability, which was a primary objection in the last FAC discussion. If the article now has a more pro-Bush POV than before, the POV pushers will just shove it back the other way. Even if it's an FA, its status as one will be short lived. To me, the way to improve this article would be to go through it and the subarticles topic by topic and get them to stable, readable versions that are at least close to NPOV.-- Kchase02 T 17:55, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
i think we can all agree that "heavy-handed" was referring not to your desire for peer review or aspiring to featured article status, but rather to (as the subject of this talk section indicates) your massive wholesale deletion of material accumulated through the cooperation and contention of hundreds of people over years, with no prior discussion. i agree with Kchase02 above: you need to go back to WP:BOLD and read the entire thing. it covers pretty much exactly this scenario and explicitly urges against the approach you have taken, and explains why you have made people so upset. just in case you do not actually go and read as i ask, here are two choice quotes:
people make two standard objections to the sprawling nature of this page: that it's too long and that it's about Bush's presidency rather than Bush himself. i disagree with both, but especially the latter. people will come to this page to learn about Bush as a president, what he's done, how it's worked, and how the world has reacted. you wouldn't expect to see separate articles on previous presidents for their biographies and their administrations. to me, it seems like a convenient excuse to bury in obscurity facts that show Bush in a more negative light than the GOP talking points currently listed. as for the length, i tend to think that encylopedia articles should be encyclopedic. if cases are to be made for the removal of excess material, this absolutely should be done on a case-by-case basis, not one fell swoop. tej 07:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is there no discussion of Bush´s Satanism? I find it incredibly rude that the question should be silenced under the "trolling" heading. A sizeable majority of people now believe that Bush is directly or indirectly engaged in satanism. Countless internet websites prove this conclusively. I don´t mind the debate. I also don´t mind disagreement. I even have compassion for those who don´t want to believe the evidence at first. But I do find it very poor manners to just erase any trace of serious discussiom for such a serious matter. We will probably never know better than the official reports legitimized by the intellectual establishment. But we do know when we are cheated.
To those hate-filled individuals: Won´t you at least offer an explanation for deleting my attempts at discussion? After all this page is named discussion. + To those hate-filled individuals: Won´t you at least offer an explanation for deleting my attempts at discussion? After all this page is named discussion. (unsigned)
Citations please? Right away! [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31]
How about not ignoring the following sentence before judging me?
Nobody claimed he was the anti-Christ. Just a satanist.
I point out in the article that President Bush refuses to discuss the ideologies and ethos of S&Bs. Here is the minor addition made to the article: "- a society so secretive that Bush will not discuss its ideologies or ethos with the american people." Of course it was immediately deleted with the familiar NPOV. In Bush's autobiography he states that he will not discuss this secret society. Please see the NPOV tutorial for making articles NPOV. It clearly states that one should not delete to make an article NPOV - one should add. Americans have had so many rights taken away from them by the patriot act, please don't take away my right to edit this article.
Moreover. it is not trivial that we have a President who belongs to a secret society, about which all the american people know is it's not for them, and its insignia is the Jolly Rogers - a [pirate] symbol. Pirates are thieves. This does not enhance the image of Skull & Bones. In a society that prides itself on being open and transparent, the fact that our President is a member of a secret society is extremely important and not merely POV. Therefore it should be featured in this article and not glossed over as a child's joke.
The fact is that our President honors his oath of secrecy to S&B's even after swearing that he takes the office of President "without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion." It seems to me, however, that he evades every question put to him by the american people regarding skull & Bones.
I think at the very least he should answer questions of the kind: Does the S&B organization do any charitable work? What are their views on nationalized health care? If the organization's views differed from yours, would you continue to support the organization - even to the extent of steering national policy in their direction? Does the organization have a history of preferrential treatment to its members? Are you bound by oath to give preferrential treatment to its members?
BmikeSci 21:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
BmikeSci 21:51, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
Secret societies are illegal in many countries. See below:
"Historically, secret societies are often the subject of suspicion and speculation from non-members; and as such have aroused nervousness from outsiders since the time of the ancient Greeks, when meetings were held "sub rosa" (Latin, "under the rose") to signify the secrecy and silence of the Hellenistic god Harpocrates.
For this reason, secret societies are illegal in several countries. In the European Union, Poland has made the ban a part of its constitution. Article 13 of the Constitution of the Republic of Poland states:
"Political parties and other organizations whose programmes are based upon totalitarian methods and the modes of activity of nazism, fascism and communism, as well as those whose programmes or activities sanction racial or national hatred, the application of violence for the purpose of obtaining power or to influence the State policy, or provide for the secrecy of their own structure or membership, shall be prohibited.""
BmikeSci 22:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
I also want to add that this is not original research. GWB states in his autobiography that he will not say more about S&Bs. I simple google search can verify that 'fact'.
BmikeSci 22:15, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
(Copied from BmikeSci's talk): Removing POV material (and Wikipedia is not a soapbox) is not valdalism. That Bush won't discuss Skull & Bones is a fact. Your evaluation of that one fact is POV. And George H.W. Bush won't discuss it. And John Kerry won't discuss it. And Wiliiam F. Buckley won't discuss it. I am not unsympathetic to negative feelings toward secret societies (which, if they are not criminal organizations are Constitutionally protected in the U.S.) but this is for the S&B article, not the Bush aricle What part of that don't your understand? -- Cecropia 22:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
(Ibid)
I understand what you are saying. I just don't think you are a cannonical source. I don't think that my single adjectival phrase is soapbox or POV. I do think that removing it over and over again is vandalism. Even if it were somewhat POV, once again, please read the NPOV tutorial. It clearly states that the way to make an article NPOV is to include all alternate POVs, not to remove the ones you don't like.
Nevertheless, I consider my edit to be merely factual. Please provide evidence to the contrary, and I will remove it.
BmikeSci 22:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
I have been accused of being argumentative in the article. I waould like to point out that in the article I only added a small factual adjectival phrase. I am arguing here on the discussion page that it should be left in the article. Some editors think that it should not remain. They argue that it should be removed and have in fact removed it. In essence they are winning the argument by force not by logic. after all, will the President discuss the ideologies and ethos of skull and bones with the american people- or not? that is the onlything that should be debated. What my point of view is has no bearing on wether or not the president will discuss s&bs with the american people. Will he or won't he? That is the only fact here that matters.
BmikeSci 22:50, 7 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
Once again, my source is GWB's autobiography. Please explain to me how this is not a verifiable source. I am not having a poitical discussion. I am having a discussion about why my edit should stand. You have made your statement that 'you' believe that it should not be included in the article. Please don't accuse me of misusing wikipedia. Wikipedia is an open project. I have as much right as anyone to work here so long as I work ethically and try to adhere to wikipedia policies and guidelines. If the wikipedia NPOV tutorial is not wikipedia policy, what is it? Once again, I made a very simple edit:
"- a society so secretive that Bush will not discuss its ideologies or ethos with the american people."
This is a fact, it is not my personal point of view. If it were a personal point of view, you could state: "That's not true, he will discuss skull and bones with the american people."
I really can't understand your short temper on the subject: "We have already offered sufficient explanation as to why your edit is unacceptable in this article." Do you have some sort of personal ax to grind? What do you mean by we? Are you an organized opposition to edits in this article?
Once again, you don't respond to my questions but give me a warning instead. I am really disheartened. I will not however engage in any sort of personal argument. Instead I will try once again to show why the edit should be maintained. The Freedom of Information Act states:
"(2) Each agency, in accordance with published rules, shall make available for public inspection and copying--
(A) final opinions, including concurring and dissenting opinions, as well as orders, made in the adjudication of cases;
(B) those statements of policy and interpretations which have been adopted by the agency and are not published in the Federal Register; and
(C) administrative staff manuals and instructions to staff that affect a member of the public;"
We see here that the office of the President is under obligation of law to make available to public inspection those statements of policyand interpretations that have been adopted by the agency.
Therefore, he must disclose to the american people what policies he must follow by "virtue" of his oaths taken on behalf of the secret society of which he is a member. Failure to do so violates existing US law. Of course you will argue that I don't understand this law either. That is your prerogative. I would do nothing to take that right away from you. Nevertheless, I believe that the President is breaking the law. I don't want to include my opinion of this in the article. That would clearly be a violation of NPOV. However I will use this argument to justify why my edit should be included.
Of course it should be included simply by virtue of being an undisputed fact. If it is a fact that shows where the president's allegences lie, then it is an important fact and should not be excluded.
additionally, I can provide you with many sources, articles, etc. that find it remarkable that President Bush will not discuss his membership in a society that takes the Jolly Rogers, the long time symbol of piracy, as its emblem.
24.206.125.213 00:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
Well my wikipedia account was disabled, and I had to get an administrator to get my editing turned back on. That's one way to silence me. BMIKESCI 02:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
U.S. President John Quincy Adams. Adams stressed that those who take oaths to politically powerful international secret societies cannot be depended on for loyalty to a democratic republic. BMIKESCI 07:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
You may not think that it's important now, but wait till your social security is gorne: Well it's happened. Bush wants to privatize (piretize) social security. What do you expect from someone whose secret society (Skull & Bones) flies the jolly rogers as its standard.
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2006Jul08/0,4670,DemocratsSocialSecurity,00.html
Why would americans want this system piretized? BTW, I think that it is in possible bad taste to put an entry into this discussion under the name of taxman. It may give the impression that anyone who contributes here runs the risk of an audit.
BMIKESCI 22:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)BMIKESCI
The article says "Following failed diplomatic efforts to coax Saddam Hussein into yielding to weapons inspections, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq.." but the inspectors were hard at work up to the point they were ordered out because of the impending invasion. How about a revision that says "Following failed diplomatic efforts to coax Saddam Hussein into full cooperation with weapons inspections, Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq.." The article Iraq War says 'Iraq agreed to the resolution and UNMOVIC began inspections on November 18, 2002, replacing UNSCOM which had previously been in charge of monitoring Iraq since April 3, 1991 [6][7]. Four months later on March 7, 2003, head of the inspectors, Hans Blix made his last presentation to the U.N. describing Iraq's cooperation in resolving oustanding issues as "active or even proactive," he went on to state "these initiatives three to four months into the new resolution cannot be said to constitute immediate cooperation."[8]' It further says 'At the time of the invasion UNMOVIC inspectors were ordered out by the United Nations. The inspectors requested more time as they were unable to account for the destruction of all proscribed items in the four months since inspections had resumed.[50][51]' Thus the present article is incorrect and POV in stating that Hussein refused to allow weapons inspections. In about a week from now I will make the suggested change barring any verifiable sources to the contrary. Edison 16:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Has anyone made a case for the reason that this template is on this page? I just noticed it, and considering this is an article about an American President, it makes little sense particularly when we have a section and an entire sub-article on public perception. I have made my case on the Project talk page that this templates are slapped on a little too many topics, particularly topics that are expected to be centric around a particular country. So unless there is a case for it, I say it should go. PPGMD 00:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
The Liberal Party of Canada is a centrist party: By what stretch of the imagination might Jean Chretien and especially Paul Martin (a shipping magnate and fiscal conservative) be called "left wing politicians" pace the "public perceptions" section? Given this, a more expansive term such as "centrist and left-of-centre politicians" might be in order. Fishhead64 00:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I put in bold face words to eliminate, and use italics to suggest substitions. Any hackers who can get past the padlock should fix this.
Faced with serious drinking issues and difficulties in his professional and personal life, Bush would abandoned his socializing lifestyle and began attending church regularly. In 1986, he would quit drinking alcohol, and following a personal meeting and exchange with Reverend Billy Graham, he would become became a born-again Christian.[4] Changing his lifestyle, Bush also began studying studied the Bible and Christian philosophy, participating also in church and community study groups. Bush would move moved his family to Washington, D.C. in 1988, to work on his father's campaign for the U.S. presidency. He would work worked with political activists Lee Atwater and Doug Wead to develop and coordinate a political strategy for courting conservative Christians and evangelical voters, which was seen as key to winning the party nomination and the election. Delivering speeches at rallies and fundraisers, Bush would also talk to spoke with representatives of conservative and religious organizations on behalf of his father.
Well, I seemed to be making progress, and fixed a lot of awful grammar and omitted some glaring and useless redundancies, while scrupulously avoiding any tampering with the biased tone and content of the Early Life and Texas Governor and the early Presidency sections. Then I arrived at the story of the Iraq war, and there the inaccuracies were coming at me so fast and furiously that I really had to start correcting the content a bit - and adding some content for balance. This was not sabotage - unless you really believe that Bush BEGAN preparations for war AFTER the UN Security Council refused to endorse military action (which would have allowed about a week to get all the ships and weapons and troops mobilized and moved into the vicinity)! When I clicked on "save page" what came up was the unaltered article, with all its nonsense intact.
For the record, here (BELOW) is what I attempted to insert. I will freely admit that I am not an enthusiastic supporter of either Bush or his war - but if the article had been written with any respect for truth and balance (as I assume the earlier sections were, more or less), I would have continued to simply edit for grammar and to eliminate meaningless redundancies. My own bias probably shows in my additions, but I think the result is generally closer to what a reader has a right to expect in an objective encyclopedia. The article as it was (and still is) reads like some kind of amateur campaign literature. I am boldfacing my additions that are most likely to cause offense. - Chelydra
Bush reputedly lacked interest in foreign affairs. His major changes to U.S. foreign policy included withdrawal from the 1998 Kyoto Protocol and from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with Russia, in order to pursue national missile defense. [1] International leaders also criticized Bush for withdrawing support for the International Criminal Court soon after he assumed the presidency. The administration voiced concern that the court could conceivably co-opt the authority of the United States' judicial system. [2] Bush publicly condemned the 'Stalinist' regime of Kim Jong-Il in North Korea, and expressed U.S. support for the defense of Taiwan following the stand-off in March 2001 with the People's Republic of China over the crash of a Chinese air force jet and the detention of U.S. personnel. In 2003-04, Bush authorized U.S. military intervention in Haiti and Liberia to restore order and oversee a transition to democracy. Although Bush's stands were lauded by Republicans and conservatives at home, global public opinion rose against his policies, and against America's hegemonic status the world's sole superpower.
Bush emphasized a "hands-off" approach to the conflict between Israel and Palestine in wake of rising violence and the failure of the Clinton administration's efforts to negotiate. Bush specifically disowned Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat for his support of the violence and militant groups, but following urgings from European leaders, became the first American president to embrace a two-state solution envisaging an independent Palestine existing side-by-side with Israel. Bush sponsored dialogue between Prime Ministers Ariel Sharon and Mahmoud Abbas, but continued his administration's boycott of Arafat. Bush supported Sharon's unilateral disengagement plan, and lauded the democratic elections held in Palestine following Arafat's death.
War on terrorism
The September 11th terrorist attacks were a major turning point in Bush's life and presidency. Bush was visiting an elementary school in Florida when chief of staff Andrew Card informed him that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center in New York City. Later, following news of a second plane crashing, Bush left the school and flew to an air base before returning to Washington, D.C. in the late afternoon. That evening, he addressed the nation from the Oval Office, promising a strong response to the attacks but emphasizing the need for the nation to come together and comfort the families of the victims. On September 14, he visited Ground Zero, meeting with mayor Rudy Giuliani and firefighters, policemen and volunteers. In a moment captured by press and media, Bush addressed the roused gathering from atop a heap of rubble: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." In a speech to the U.S. Congress, Bush declared war on terrorist groups and nations supporting terrorism across the world, and specifically endorsing the overthrow of the Taliban regime of Afghanistan, which had been harboring training camps for Al Qaeda militants. Bush ordered the invasion of Afghanistan, which resulted in the overthrow of the Taliban by the Northern Alliance with the help of U.S. special forces and bombing campaigns. Bush also backed secret programs to gather intelligence through the monitoring of bank funds and telephone records, and signed the controversial USA Patriot Act, which gave law enforcement agencies unprecedented powers. [3]
Iraq war Following the successful overthrow of the Taliban, the Bush administration also promoted urgent action in Iraq, stating that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and that in the post 9-11 world it was too dangerous to allow unstable regimes to possess weapons that could "potentially fall into the hands of terrorists." Bush also argued that Saddam was a threat to U.S. security, destabilized the Middle East, inflamed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and financed terrorists. CIA reports asserted that Saddam Hussein had tried to acquire nuclear material, had not properly accounted for Iraqi biological weapons and chemical weapons material in violation of U.N. sanctions, and that some Iraqi missiles had a range greater than allowed by the UN sanctions. [4]
Bush urged the United Nations to enforce Iraqi disarmament mandates, precipitating a diplomatic crisis. On November 13 2002, under UN Security Council Resolution 1441, Hans Blix and Mohamed ElBaradei led UN weapons inspectors in Iraq. Lapses in Iraqi cooperation triggered intense debate over the efficacy of inspections. UN inspection teams, after reporting some progress and demanding more time were strongly advised by the U.S. to leave Iraq four days prior to full-scale hostilities.
[5] At the urging of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, the Bush administration initially sought a UN Security Council resolution authorizing the use of military force pursuant to Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter. [6] However, upon facing vigorous opposition from several nations (primarily France and Germany, and several Security Council members who didn't appreciate the [London] Observer's revelations that their offices had been bugged by the U.S. ), the Bush administration dropped the bid for UN approval, while finalizing preparations for its invasion. The war effort was eventually joined by more than 20 other nations (most notably the United Kingdom) who were designated the " coalition of the willing". [7]
Military hostilities commenced on March 20 2003 to pre-empt Iraqi WMD deployment and remove Saddam from power, and successfully ended on May 1, 2003, when U.S. forces took control of Baghdad. The apparent success of U.S. operations would greatly increase Bush's popularity, but the U.S. forces would be challenged by public disorder, as well as increasing insurgency led by pro-Saddam and Islamist groups. The Bush administration was assailed in subsequent months following the report of the Iraq Survey Group, which found almost no trace of the weapons that the regime was said to possess. The 9/11 Commission report speculated that Saddam's government was actively attempting to acquire technology that would allow Iraq to produce WMD as soon as U.N. sanctions were lifted. [8] However, the Commission found no credible evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed stockpiles of WMD. On December 14, 2005, while discussing the WMD issue, Bush stated that "It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong." [9] However, Bush would remain unwavering when asked if the war had been worth it, and whether he would have made the same decisions if he had known more. For example, challenged by European reporters on the missing WMD issue, Bush replied by changing the subject, pointing out that "there are no more torture chambers" in Iraq - but then, perhaps remembering that Abu Grahib was starting to enter the news that very day, he quickly changed the subject back again. U.S. efforts in Iraq were supposed to be the centrepiece of Bush's grand strategic plan to discourage and defeat terrorists by removing tyrranical regimes, promoting democracy, and fostering social and economic development. As of 2006, three years after the conquest of Baghdad, the legitimacy of Iraq's new democratic process has been confirmed by the crushing electoral defeat of the Bush Administration's preferred presidential candidate, and the election of parties that demanded a speedy end of the occupation. However, economic conditions have apparently continued to deteriorate. According to the Brookings Institute's regularly updated Iraq reports, Baghdad's electricity, which was supplied for 20-24 hours every day under Saddam's rule, has steadily been reduced, down to an average of ten or twelve hours in 2004, six or eight hours in late 2005, and about four hours a day as of mid-2006. The results so far of the War on Terror, do not seem to be particularly encouraging. The Brookings Institute reports that the number of terrorist attacks worldwide in the year 2004 was 2,800. The total for 2005 was 11,111. (The Brookings chart only covers these two years.) [32]
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User:Dubc0724 has removed without discussion this sourced sentence from the article:
ref:
Jan Frel (2006-07-10).
"Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?".
AlterNet. Retrieved 2006-07-10. {{
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Otherwise than this there was no citation in this article for the well know allegation of war crimes. This is clearly intended to censor disliked point of views. --
BMF81 12:44, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I readded this criticism with an additional source into the "Wars" section. -- ElKevbo 17:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
A very large part of this article is about Bush's first term. I would like to remove alot of it, as it goes into excessive detail. Any objections? Green caterpillar 02:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Someone can fix the signature and make it transparent. ~ Neo139 9:20pm, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I added Bush to that category, because he played rugby union for Yale university [33]. If you want to dispute it, please go on my talk page.-- Hamedog Talk| @ 10:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
In the Criticism and public perception section, the article states:
This is clearly a mistake (the September "following" early 2006 hasn't happened yet), but even if the word "following" should be "previous", it still doesn't match what is seen in the accompanying graph. According to it, his approval ratings in early 2006 were (perhaps) slightly higher than in October and November of 2005, but certainly not September. - dcljr ( talk) 10:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)