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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This page should only list the Secretaries for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The previous offices (Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Secretary of State for the Colonies, etc.) should have separate articles. john 23:51 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
I've reformatted the big list(section 1), but it's badly spaced out, I would fix this but I only did this to show how notepad + copy & paste can do, appologies if this messed anyone elses hard work, please revert if you don't like it, and feel free to fix the spacing -- 86.133.59.208 18:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
We've lost Jack Straw! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.119.84 ( talk) 00:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs → Foreign Secretary — The United Kingdom is the only country to have a minister commonly called a "Foreign Secretary"; the vast majority of foreign ministers hold titles which are all pretty much based on the formulations "Minister of/for Foreign Affairs", "Foreign Minister", and "Minister of External Relations". The US, the UK and Vatican City are pretty much the only exceptions with, respectively, "Secretary of State", "Foreign Secretary" and "Secretary for Relations with States". Foreign Secretary and Foreign secretary already redirect here. YeshuaDavid ( talk) 23:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
To respond to Skinsmoke: you are right in that "Foreign Secretary" is a common name name and not the full title, but WP:UCN stipulates we use the most comnon name where possible an appropriate. It's for that reason we use United Kingdom, not United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and FA Cup, not The Football Association Challenge Cup. YeshuaDavid ( talk) 18:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.I appreciate the discussion is now closed, but I'd suggest that this decision is not comsistent with established naning conventions. Wikipedia articles are not based on official names - they are based on commonly used names. See WP:COMMONNAME:
Except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication, title an article using the most common name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article (making the title unique when necessary as described in the following section and in the disambiguation guideline) (emphasis added)
AndrewRT( Talk)( WMUK) 11:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed someone has edited the style for all cabinet ministers and added "Mr/Madam Secretary" - this sounds terribly American so I will change this within the week unless a source is provided to support this style of address.
Loobeloo ( talk) 09:37, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
Which name should be used for Foreign Secretaries who inherited or were granted a title/higher title during their time in office? This would apply to Carmarthen/Leeds, Castlereagh/Londonderry, Dudley, Russell, Grey, Curzon, and Eden (who was made a knight during his last tenure at the foreign office). Currently, I believe all except Grey are listed by their highest title, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. It means, for instance, that the word "Castlereagh" does not appear in our article about British foreign secretaries. I'd suggest some mechanism to include both, with possible preference for the form at time of appointment as the main one displayed. john k ( talk) 19:20, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( non-admin closure) Celia Homeford ( talk) 14:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs → Foreign Secretary – (or Alternatively Foreign Secretary (United Kingdom)). As "Foreign Secretary" is overwhelming the common name for the position with almost all reliable sources refererring to the position as simply "Foreign Secretary" [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]. Google Ngram Viewer also shows the much more for the term "Foreign Secretary" than "Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs" [12]. The term would already be precise/unambigous as it " Foreign Secretary" already redirects here but if not just use "Foreign Secretary (United Kingdom)". Either way is more concise than the current title. Spy-cicle💥 Talk? 00:26, 25 January 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 17:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. — Nnadigoodluck ███ 23:24, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:48, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be an issue of contention with the capitalisation of the titles of certain positions in the British government on this page. As of right now, I'm currently in an edit war with Wallnot over how both 'Foreign Secretary' and ' ' should be capitalised, with an example of Wallnot's revision with their capitalisation as follows:
The secretary of state for foreign, Commonwealth and development affairs, also referred to as the foreign secretary, is a secretary of state in the Government of the United Kingdom, with overall responsibility for the work of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.[1] Seen as one of the most senior ministers in the government and a Great Office of State, the incumbent is a member of the Cabinet of the United Kingdom, fourth in the ministerial ranking.[2]
I disagree with the capitalisation in the following manner, because it isn't consistent (why is 'Commonwealth' capitalised, but 'Development Affairs' not if they're both proper nouns within a title?); it misunderstands MOS:JOBTITLES since 'Foreign Secretary' isn't being used as a common noun or denoting an office, but a title (e.g 'Madam Foreign Secretary' would be capitalised because it refers to a title held directly by a person--in this case, the Foreign Secretary); and finally, it isn't how the British government itself capitalises the title, as can be seen in this or this official government gazette release.
This was my revision:
The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, also referred to as the Foreign Secretary, is a secretary of state in the Government of the United Kingdom, with overall responsibility for the work of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.[1] Seen as one of the most senior ministers in the government and a Great Office of State, the incumbent is a member of the Cabinet of the United Kingdom, fourth in the ministerial ranking.[2]
I can't see any issue with my revision, since it's consistent with articles over the rest of wikipedia (e.g, T he Minister of Foreign Affairs for Pakistan, or the Foreign Secretary of India. When I asked Wallnot why proper nouns that referred to job titles were capitalised, I was referred to MOS:JOBTITLES but not given any additional clarification. Seeing as my edits didn't disagree with the MOS, I then re-inserted the capitals into the source, which prompted Wallnot to threaten me on my page with WP:ANI, while again linking MOS:JOBTITLES while once again failing to highlight what it is that would make it suitable to place proper nouns and job titles in lower capitals on the article.
With that said, I request intervention for comment to see what other users think, since I can tell this is a particularily contentious issue for this user. PeaceThruPramana26 ( talk) 23:53, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
This afternoon the Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab joined a meeting with counterparts from the US, Canada, the EU, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, NATO, Qatar and Turkey about the situation in Afghanistan.
"Under the MOS, job titles are typically not treated as proper nouns,"
not a proper RFC
|
---|
|
From the title being capped (like others at the disambig page), I'd think that we'd want to write the lead to use caps, in line with the MOS:JOBTITLE clause "Unmodified, denoting a title". But I'm unclear on what that means, exactly. We should either figure that out, or use lowercase in the lead, and maybe lowercase in the title(s). Dicklyon ( talk) 02:19, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
I made an attempt at a lead rewrite. Please comment (and optionally revert if you disagree or have a better idea). Dicklyon ( talk) 02:24, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Follow the lead at prime minister of the United Kingdom where I believe these things have been worked out already. Cinderella157 ( talk) 06:47, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
For the record, I agree with
Dicklyon. Across Wikipedia, virtually all the articles of heads of office have the titles capitalised, and only the articles edited by
Wallnot and a few others in concurment seemingly would make an exception to that rule, as you go across the wide breadth of wikipedia articles and see that all foreign secretaries and other such offices are always capitalised, e.g the
Foreign Minister of Thailand has his title capitalised. I don't think it makes sense to have a handful of articles uncapitalised, while the vast majority already follow an interpretation of MOS that would render this one as unorthodox in my humble opinion.
PeaceThruPramana26 (
talk) 00:15, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Wallnot has successfully convinced me. No further complaints on my part to his/her editing. PeaceThruPramana26 ( talk) 19:59, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The first part of Lloyd's stint as Foreign Secretary, from December 1955 to January 1957, was under Eden's premiership rather than Macmillan's. The table needs to be updated to reflect this (by someone who is better at editing tables than I am). Mark and inwardly digest ( talk) 17:07, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
Are we really doing this again? Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 17:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
given the context. In the context of infoboxes, his formal title, and what is used throughout Wikipedia as demonstrated on Talk:James Cleverly and at the top of his own IB, is "The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton". You are correct that in prose it would be inappropriate, which is where MOSLC would be cited. Not here though. The style, for peers, is "The Lord Blank of Blank". Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 17:44, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
as "The article linked to should correspond as closely as possible to the term showing as the link" which follows that the closest possible term showing as the link is "The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton"
Foreign Secretary David Cameron gave a statement on the deaths of people in Gaza waiting for an aid convoy on 29 February 2024.[14] DeCausa ( talk) 13:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Tim O'Doherty: In this particular case, the name is being used as a title. There is one, and only one, foreign secretary at any given time, and that person is referred to officially as "the Foreign Secretary", because it's their title, which is capitalised as a proper noun, per the MoS regarding titles. Note that if we were to say, in other contexts, "The name of the foreign secretary at the time was...", or "the foreign secretary can..." lowercase would be appropriate, as it's being used as a common noun. It's a fine distinction, but an important one. Please see here for the full entry on this in the Manual of Style. — The Anome ( talk) 13:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
the prime minister has the responsibility of forming a government" (referring to the responsibilities of a person holding the office of prime minister) versus "
the Prime Minister has the responsibility of forming a government" (referring to (for example) Sunak after becoming PM). Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 14:02, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
the incumbent is a member of the Cabinet of the United Kingdom and National Security Council, and reports directly to the prime minister" - rather than the "
Prime Minister". Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 14:07, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
David Cameron, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 2010 to 2016, was elevated to the House of Lords as Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, and simultaneously appointed Foreign Secretary. Several pages refer to him as Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton. The Foreign Secretary article appears to be the only outlier in time. The title Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton was originally placed on the Foreign Secretary article but was later reverted. Should the article Foreign Secretary be reverted to display Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton's title as he is now a peer? TheBishopAndHolyPrince ( talk) 12:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
every other article includes his title". They do not. As shown above, the vast majority of articles use David Cameron, including the article title of the David Cameron article.
It does not take a genius to figure it out." But it does take basic competence. Cambial — foliar❧ 13:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
factually incorrect points. I've merely pointed out the demonstrably false claim about usage in other articles you make in your campaigning RfC statement.
being a peeris not at issue here. It's about how we link to his page and how to follow the site-wide consensus at the manual of style. Cambial — foliar❧ 13:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Include a brief, neutral statement of or question about the issue in the talk page section, immediately below the {{
rfc}}
tag (see § Example).
You're arguing your point in the opening statement by referring to other pages that use your preferred name and saying that by not using your preferred name this article is an outlier.
DeCausa (
talk) 13:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Every other article" says he is a peer. If you want to seek an exception to the site-wide consensus, the manual of style talk page is the place to go. Cambial — foliar❧ 15:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
point is very misleading. Yep, that's the article subject's full name given in the lead. The article title remains David Cameron, per WP:RS and WP:COMMONNAME. Cambial — foliar❧ 15:15, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
misleading". Whether another article has those words in it is not relevant. Cambial — foliar❧ 16:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
no idea what result the OP is requesting". Cambial — foliar❧ 17:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
That is not able to be contentious”, reality differs from your version of events.
Does anyone object to or have changes to these:
Are there any other options that should be considered? DeCausa ( talk) 22:40, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Question 1: Should the incumbent parameter in the Infobox state (A) "David Cameron" or (B) "Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton"?
Question 2: Should the opening sentence of the fourth paragraph of the lead section state "The current foreign secretary is..." (A) "David Cameron" or (B) "Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton"?
-
The Gnome (
talk) 19:59, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Foreign Secretary David Cameron gave a statement on the deaths of people in Gaza waiting for an aid convoy on 29 February 2024.
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This page should only list the Secretaries for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The previous offices (Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Secretary of State for the Colonies, etc.) should have separate articles. john 23:51 May 9, 2003 (UTC)
I've reformatted the big list(section 1), but it's badly spaced out, I would fix this but I only did this to show how notepad + copy & paste can do, appologies if this messed anyone elses hard work, please revert if you don't like it, and feel free to fix the spacing -- 86.133.59.208 18:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
We've lost Jack Straw! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.119.84 ( talk) 00:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 00:03, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs → Foreign Secretary — The United Kingdom is the only country to have a minister commonly called a "Foreign Secretary"; the vast majority of foreign ministers hold titles which are all pretty much based on the formulations "Minister of/for Foreign Affairs", "Foreign Minister", and "Minister of External Relations". The US, the UK and Vatican City are pretty much the only exceptions with, respectively, "Secretary of State", "Foreign Secretary" and "Secretary for Relations with States". Foreign Secretary and Foreign secretary already redirect here. YeshuaDavid ( talk) 23:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
To respond to Skinsmoke: you are right in that "Foreign Secretary" is a common name name and not the full title, but WP:UCN stipulates we use the most comnon name where possible an appropriate. It's for that reason we use United Kingdom, not United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and FA Cup, not The Football Association Challenge Cup. YeshuaDavid ( talk) 18:04, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.I appreciate the discussion is now closed, but I'd suggest that this decision is not comsistent with established naning conventions. Wikipedia articles are not based on official names - they are based on commonly used names. See WP:COMMONNAME:
Except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication, title an article using the most common name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article (making the title unique when necessary as described in the following section and in the disambiguation guideline) (emphasis added)
AndrewRT( Talk)( WMUK) 11:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed someone has edited the style for all cabinet ministers and added "Mr/Madam Secretary" - this sounds terribly American so I will change this within the week unless a source is provided to support this style of address.
Loobeloo ( talk) 09:37, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
Which name should be used for Foreign Secretaries who inherited or were granted a title/higher title during their time in office? This would apply to Carmarthen/Leeds, Castlereagh/Londonderry, Dudley, Russell, Grey, Curzon, and Eden (who was made a knight during his last tenure at the foreign office). Currently, I believe all except Grey are listed by their highest title, but I'm not sure that's the best way to do it. It means, for instance, that the word "Castlereagh" does not appear in our article about British foreign secretaries. I'd suggest some mechanism to include both, with possible preference for the form at time of appointment as the main one displayed. john k ( talk) 19:20, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( non-admin closure) Celia Homeford ( talk) 14:19, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs → Foreign Secretary – (or Alternatively Foreign Secretary (United Kingdom)). As "Foreign Secretary" is overwhelming the common name for the position with almost all reliable sources refererring to the position as simply "Foreign Secretary" [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]. Google Ngram Viewer also shows the much more for the term "Foreign Secretary" than "Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs" [12]. The term would already be precise/unambigous as it " Foreign Secretary" already redirects here but if not just use "Foreign Secretary (United Kingdom)". Either way is more concise than the current title. Spy-cicle💥 Talk? 00:26, 25 January 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. ProcrastinatingReader ( talk) 17:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. — Nnadigoodluck ███ 23:24, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 09:48, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
There seems to be an issue of contention with the capitalisation of the titles of certain positions in the British government on this page. As of right now, I'm currently in an edit war with Wallnot over how both 'Foreign Secretary' and ' ' should be capitalised, with an example of Wallnot's revision with their capitalisation as follows:
The secretary of state for foreign, Commonwealth and development affairs, also referred to as the foreign secretary, is a secretary of state in the Government of the United Kingdom, with overall responsibility for the work of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.[1] Seen as one of the most senior ministers in the government and a Great Office of State, the incumbent is a member of the Cabinet of the United Kingdom, fourth in the ministerial ranking.[2]
I disagree with the capitalisation in the following manner, because it isn't consistent (why is 'Commonwealth' capitalised, but 'Development Affairs' not if they're both proper nouns within a title?); it misunderstands MOS:JOBTITLES since 'Foreign Secretary' isn't being used as a common noun or denoting an office, but a title (e.g 'Madam Foreign Secretary' would be capitalised because it refers to a title held directly by a person--in this case, the Foreign Secretary); and finally, it isn't how the British government itself capitalises the title, as can be seen in this or this official government gazette release.
This was my revision:
The Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs, also referred to as the Foreign Secretary, is a secretary of state in the Government of the United Kingdom, with overall responsibility for the work of the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.[1] Seen as one of the most senior ministers in the government and a Great Office of State, the incumbent is a member of the Cabinet of the United Kingdom, fourth in the ministerial ranking.[2]
I can't see any issue with my revision, since it's consistent with articles over the rest of wikipedia (e.g, T he Minister of Foreign Affairs for Pakistan, or the Foreign Secretary of India. When I asked Wallnot why proper nouns that referred to job titles were capitalised, I was referred to MOS:JOBTITLES but not given any additional clarification. Seeing as my edits didn't disagree with the MOS, I then re-inserted the capitals into the source, which prompted Wallnot to threaten me on my page with WP:ANI, while again linking MOS:JOBTITLES while once again failing to highlight what it is that would make it suitable to place proper nouns and job titles in lower capitals on the article.
With that said, I request intervention for comment to see what other users think, since I can tell this is a particularily contentious issue for this user. PeaceThruPramana26 ( talk) 23:53, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
This afternoon the Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab joined a meeting with counterparts from the US, Canada, the EU, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, NATO, Qatar and Turkey about the situation in Afghanistan.
"Under the MOS, job titles are typically not treated as proper nouns,"
not a proper RFC
|
---|
|
From the title being capped (like others at the disambig page), I'd think that we'd want to write the lead to use caps, in line with the MOS:JOBTITLE clause "Unmodified, denoting a title". But I'm unclear on what that means, exactly. We should either figure that out, or use lowercase in the lead, and maybe lowercase in the title(s). Dicklyon ( talk) 02:19, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
I made an attempt at a lead rewrite. Please comment (and optionally revert if you disagree or have a better idea). Dicklyon ( talk) 02:24, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Follow the lead at prime minister of the United Kingdom where I believe these things have been worked out already. Cinderella157 ( talk) 06:47, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
For the record, I agree with
Dicklyon. Across Wikipedia, virtually all the articles of heads of office have the titles capitalised, and only the articles edited by
Wallnot and a few others in concurment seemingly would make an exception to that rule, as you go across the wide breadth of wikipedia articles and see that all foreign secretaries and other such offices are always capitalised, e.g the
Foreign Minister of Thailand has his title capitalised. I don't think it makes sense to have a handful of articles uncapitalised, while the vast majority already follow an interpretation of MOS that would render this one as unorthodox in my humble opinion.
PeaceThruPramana26 (
talk) 00:15, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
Wallnot has successfully convinced me. No further complaints on my part to his/her editing. PeaceThruPramana26 ( talk) 19:59, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The first part of Lloyd's stint as Foreign Secretary, from December 1955 to January 1957, was under Eden's premiership rather than Macmillan's. The table needs to be updated to reflect this (by someone who is better at editing tables than I am). Mark and inwardly digest ( talk) 17:07, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
Are we really doing this again? Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 17:23, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
given the context. In the context of infoboxes, his formal title, and what is used throughout Wikipedia as demonstrated on Talk:James Cleverly and at the top of his own IB, is "The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton". You are correct that in prose it would be inappropriate, which is where MOSLC would be cited. Not here though. The style, for peers, is "The Lord Blank of Blank". Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 17:44, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
as "The article linked to should correspond as closely as possible to the term showing as the link" which follows that the closest possible term showing as the link is "The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton"
Foreign Secretary David Cameron gave a statement on the deaths of people in Gaza waiting for an aid convoy on 29 February 2024.[14] DeCausa ( talk) 13:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Tim O'Doherty: In this particular case, the name is being used as a title. There is one, and only one, foreign secretary at any given time, and that person is referred to officially as "the Foreign Secretary", because it's their title, which is capitalised as a proper noun, per the MoS regarding titles. Note that if we were to say, in other contexts, "The name of the foreign secretary at the time was...", or "the foreign secretary can..." lowercase would be appropriate, as it's being used as a common noun. It's a fine distinction, but an important one. Please see here for the full entry on this in the Manual of Style. — The Anome ( talk) 13:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
the prime minister has the responsibility of forming a government" (referring to the responsibilities of a person holding the office of prime minister) versus "
the Prime Minister has the responsibility of forming a government" (referring to (for example) Sunak after becoming PM). Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 14:02, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
the incumbent is a member of the Cabinet of the United Kingdom and National Security Council, and reports directly to the prime minister" - rather than the "
Prime Minister". Tim O'Doherty ( talk) 14:07, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
David Cameron, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 2010 to 2016, was elevated to the House of Lords as Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton, and simultaneously appointed Foreign Secretary. Several pages refer to him as Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton. The Foreign Secretary article appears to be the only outlier in time. The title Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton was originally placed on the Foreign Secretary article but was later reverted. Should the article Foreign Secretary be reverted to display Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton's title as he is now a peer? TheBishopAndHolyPrince ( talk) 12:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
every other article includes his title". They do not. As shown above, the vast majority of articles use David Cameron, including the article title of the David Cameron article.
It does not take a genius to figure it out." But it does take basic competence. Cambial — foliar❧ 13:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
factually incorrect points. I've merely pointed out the demonstrably false claim about usage in other articles you make in your campaigning RfC statement.
being a peeris not at issue here. It's about how we link to his page and how to follow the site-wide consensus at the manual of style. Cambial — foliar❧ 13:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Include a brief, neutral statement of or question about the issue in the talk page section, immediately below the {{
rfc}}
tag (see § Example).
You're arguing your point in the opening statement by referring to other pages that use your preferred name and saying that by not using your preferred name this article is an outlier.
DeCausa (
talk) 13:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Every other article" says he is a peer. If you want to seek an exception to the site-wide consensus, the manual of style talk page is the place to go. Cambial — foliar❧ 15:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
point is very misleading. Yep, that's the article subject's full name given in the lead. The article title remains David Cameron, per WP:RS and WP:COMMONNAME. Cambial — foliar❧ 15:15, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
misleading". Whether another article has those words in it is not relevant. Cambial — foliar❧ 16:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
no idea what result the OP is requesting". Cambial — foliar❧ 17:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
That is not able to be contentious”, reality differs from your version of events.
Does anyone object to or have changes to these:
Are there any other options that should be considered? DeCausa ( talk) 22:40, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Question 1: Should the incumbent parameter in the Infobox state (A) "David Cameron" or (B) "Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton"?
Question 2: Should the opening sentence of the fourth paragraph of the lead section state "The current foreign secretary is..." (A) "David Cameron" or (B) "Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton"?
-
The Gnome (
talk) 19:59, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Foreign Secretary David Cameron gave a statement on the deaths of people in Gaza waiting for an aid convoy on 29 February 2024.