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Doreen Granpeesheh article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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user:TheSunIsAStar147147: You have reverted this edit, with the comment that it appears unconstructive. While I don't blame you for the mistake, if you look closely at the sources I removed you will see that all of them fail WP:MEDRS. Therefore unless you object I will re-instate the edit. -- 66.244.121.212 ( talk) 00:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I have placed a "Like resume" tag on the page and proposed its deletion. This page is entirely based on self-published materials, resembles a resume, and does not meet the guidelines for notability. Gershonmk ( talk) 21:27, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
GordonGlottal: - You have reverted a WP:BRD edit - GordonGlottal's revert edit with a comment that the material is promotional and unsourced. Normally you are obligated to begin a discussion on this Talk page prior to your revert.
First, the material is brand new as of June 26, 2022 and was not copied or otherwise derived from the Center for Autism and Related Disorders article, or even previous article revisions, as you claim.
Second, every sentence of this material is appropriately sourced from objective, third-party reliable sources. The sources are brand new and do not reflect my previous edits as you claim. Self-published sources by Granpeesheh were not used. Two independent sources were provided for each biographical fact. Elsvier is a well known and respected medical and science book publisher. Behavioral Health Business is less well known, however the reporter has a Masters graduate degree in Journalism from the Columbia School of Journalism. The article she wrote is well written and appears to be accurate. As a third source, biographical material from the U.S. State department web site must be assumed to be accurate.
Second, no promotional or self-published sources were used. It is not clear exactly what you mean by "promotional", however because facts regarding Granpeesheh's career and early life would not ordinarily be considered promotional given that she is already successful, is already well known in the field and has received numerous awards.
It is now your responsibility to explain your substantive reasons for the revert. Please be specific about your reasons. Please explain exactly which sources or sentences you consider not valid. MarsTrombone ( talk) 21:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
GordonGlottal: I am adding an additional comment on self-published sources, per Wikipedia guidelines. Your interpretations of the Wikipedia Guidelines is incorrect. But for the record, I did not use any self-published sources for the in question. However, it is not true that self-published or primary sources cannot be used for biographies of living persons. The Wikipedia Biography Guideline WP:BLP states that:
Using the subject as a self-published source
There are living persons who publish material about themselves, such as through press releases or personal websites. Such material may be used as a source only if: it is not unduly self-serving; it does not involve claims about third parties; it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity; and the article is not based primarily on such sources.
Granpeesheh has given numerous interviews about her life and career and per the guidelines WP:BLPSELFPUB these facts and narratives can be used as references to biographical content when they involve the subject, and are reasonably authentic and true and are not unduly self-serving. No self-published reference sources were used in my edit, however it is allowable to use them in a biography of the subject. MarsTrombone ( talk) 05:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
it is not unduly self-serving. You can't just outflank other editors by switching to a related page. There's no brute-force tactic that will work. We've seen them all before. This is not a BOLD edit, because you knew other editors objected before you made it. As I and other editors told you at CARD, you need reliable sources. Sources which are reliable according to WP:RS, not your personal rubric. "the reporter has a Masters graduate degree in Journalism from the Columbia School of Journalism. The article she wrote is well written" is not relevant, as several editors specifically told you, when you made this exact same argument, for the exact same source, and the exact same claims, at CARD. The site has none of the requisite qualities for a reliable source. Granpeesheh's own uncorroborated promotional claims, no matter in what forum she publishes them, will never be appropriate here.
Substantive rationale for content removal.
Negative content and potentially libelous material about a Subject requires extraordinary care. See WP:ECREE and WP:LIBEL This material is defined as "Libelous material (otherwise known as defamation) is reasonably likely to damage a person or company's reputation" The quote the editor highlights may be factual, but appears to be taken out of context. This film (never publicly released in a theatre) is from 2016 and we don't know her reasons for participating, the context for the statement or her current position. Highlighting a specific quote along with the editor's conclusion can be perceived or taken as original research WP:OR which is also forbidden.
Recent Primary Source references indicate that Granpeesheh supports vaccines and supports giving vaccines to children. See - Granpeesheh interview Youtube of Oct 2022 An primary source interview from 2011 also appears neutral to pro-vaccine - See Fox News interview.
Further without context, the encyclopedic value of this information is very low. Unless extraordinary care is taken, per policy WP:LIBEL the quote and material should be removed. MarsTrombone ( talk) 19:42, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Doreen Granpeesheh article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
user:TheSunIsAStar147147: You have reverted this edit, with the comment that it appears unconstructive. While I don't blame you for the mistake, if you look closely at the sources I removed you will see that all of them fail WP:MEDRS. Therefore unless you object I will re-instate the edit. -- 66.244.121.212 ( talk) 00:10, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
I have placed a "Like resume" tag on the page and proposed its deletion. This page is entirely based on self-published materials, resembles a resume, and does not meet the guidelines for notability. Gershonmk ( talk) 21:27, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
GordonGlottal: - You have reverted a WP:BRD edit - GordonGlottal's revert edit with a comment that the material is promotional and unsourced. Normally you are obligated to begin a discussion on this Talk page prior to your revert.
First, the material is brand new as of June 26, 2022 and was not copied or otherwise derived from the Center for Autism and Related Disorders article, or even previous article revisions, as you claim.
Second, every sentence of this material is appropriately sourced from objective, third-party reliable sources. The sources are brand new and do not reflect my previous edits as you claim. Self-published sources by Granpeesheh were not used. Two independent sources were provided for each biographical fact. Elsvier is a well known and respected medical and science book publisher. Behavioral Health Business is less well known, however the reporter has a Masters graduate degree in Journalism from the Columbia School of Journalism. The article she wrote is well written and appears to be accurate. As a third source, biographical material from the U.S. State department web site must be assumed to be accurate.
Second, no promotional or self-published sources were used. It is not clear exactly what you mean by "promotional", however because facts regarding Granpeesheh's career and early life would not ordinarily be considered promotional given that she is already successful, is already well known in the field and has received numerous awards.
It is now your responsibility to explain your substantive reasons for the revert. Please be specific about your reasons. Please explain exactly which sources or sentences you consider not valid. MarsTrombone ( talk) 21:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
GordonGlottal: I am adding an additional comment on self-published sources, per Wikipedia guidelines. Your interpretations of the Wikipedia Guidelines is incorrect. But for the record, I did not use any self-published sources for the in question. However, it is not true that self-published or primary sources cannot be used for biographies of living persons. The Wikipedia Biography Guideline WP:BLP states that:
Using the subject as a self-published source
There are living persons who publish material about themselves, such as through press releases or personal websites. Such material may be used as a source only if: it is not unduly self-serving; it does not involve claims about third parties; it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the subject;
there is no reasonable doubt as to its authenticity; and the article is not based primarily on such sources.
Granpeesheh has given numerous interviews about her life and career and per the guidelines WP:BLPSELFPUB these facts and narratives can be used as references to biographical content when they involve the subject, and are reasonably authentic and true and are not unduly self-serving. No self-published reference sources were used in my edit, however it is allowable to use them in a biography of the subject. MarsTrombone ( talk) 05:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
it is not unduly self-serving. You can't just outflank other editors by switching to a related page. There's no brute-force tactic that will work. We've seen them all before. This is not a BOLD edit, because you knew other editors objected before you made it. As I and other editors told you at CARD, you need reliable sources. Sources which are reliable according to WP:RS, not your personal rubric. "the reporter has a Masters graduate degree in Journalism from the Columbia School of Journalism. The article she wrote is well written" is not relevant, as several editors specifically told you, when you made this exact same argument, for the exact same source, and the exact same claims, at CARD. The site has none of the requisite qualities for a reliable source. Granpeesheh's own uncorroborated promotional claims, no matter in what forum she publishes them, will never be appropriate here.
Substantive rationale for content removal.
Negative content and potentially libelous material about a Subject requires extraordinary care. See WP:ECREE and WP:LIBEL This material is defined as "Libelous material (otherwise known as defamation) is reasonably likely to damage a person or company's reputation" The quote the editor highlights may be factual, but appears to be taken out of context. This film (never publicly released in a theatre) is from 2016 and we don't know her reasons for participating, the context for the statement or her current position. Highlighting a specific quote along with the editor's conclusion can be perceived or taken as original research WP:OR which is also forbidden.
Recent Primary Source references indicate that Granpeesheh supports vaccines and supports giving vaccines to children. See - Granpeesheh interview Youtube of Oct 2022 An primary source interview from 2011 also appears neutral to pro-vaccine - See Fox News interview.
Further without context, the encyclopedic value of this information is very low. Unless extraordinary care is taken, per policy WP:LIBEL the quote and material should be removed. MarsTrombone ( talk) 19:42, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
References