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On 9 July 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Criticism of the Israeli government to Criticism of Israel. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 10:35, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Criticism of the Israeli government → Criticism of Israel – The current name is not reflective of realities. The article content refers to criticism of the whole of the state of Israel: its government, judiciary and parliament. It does not exclusively refer to criticism of the government. Moreover, current title implies there is the same government that is being criticized, ignoring the frequent government changes in Israel over the past decades, from left to right to far-right, etc.. And most importantly, "criticism of Israel" is the most common name in online sources, "criticism of the Israeli government" does not even come close. Makeandtoss ( talk) 09:51, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
its government, judiciary and parliament. I think that Criticism of the Israeli government is the more precise title, as it avoids any unnecessary antisemitic connotations that could arise if readers think that Criticism of Israel includes criticism of Israelis. — Freoh 17:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
I think it would be best to include a small note that the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism is a non-legally binding statement on what antisemitism. The language used in mentioning it in the beginning paragraph in Comparisons with Nazi Germany appears to lend a sense of official conclusion regarding the comparisons between Nazi Germany being antisemitism rather than them being legitimate scholarly discourse. Perhaps a rewording could help or a small note that the definition has its own criticisms and is a non-legally binding statement. Odin Vex ( talk) 16:47, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I would like to request an edit. The specific passage in question is as follows:
Original: "In 2002 Desmond Tutu is a critic of Israel who has compared Israel's policies to apartheid South Africa. Tutu wrote that criticism of Israel is suppressed in the United States, and that criticisms of Israel are 'immediately dubbed anti-Semitic'.”
Proposed Amendment: "In 2002, Desmond Tutu, a critic of Israel, compared Israel's policies to apartheid-era South Africa. Tutu wrote that criticism of Israel is suppressed in the United States, and that criticisms of Israel are 'immediately dubbed anti-Semitic'.” Bernsteinnn ( talk) 05:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
The current first paragraph contains the following sentence:
First, I propose to remove all citations to Alan Deshowitz's book which has been exposed as a fraud, with multiple sections plagiarized directly from another fraud (Joan Peters' book).
Second, I propose to remove citation 3 here which includes a quote which is definitely not NPOV, and is hardly relevant to the topic.
Third, I propose to remove citation 4 which is more of a response to criticisms rather than criticisms in their own right, so it's not a good citation for this first sentence. This article also conflates the notion of criticism of Israel with "vilification" of Israel.
I also propose to rework this sentence to be more consistent with the rest of the article and remove vague or non-essential content:
DMH43 ( talk) 03:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
References
The Jewish nation of Israel stands accused in the dock of international justice. The charges include being a criminal state, the prime violator of human rights, the mirror image of Nazism, and the most intransigent barrier to peace in the Middle East. Throughout the world, from the chambers of the United Nations to the campuses of universities, Israel is singled out for condemnation, divestment, boycott and demonization.
For a tiny nation of little more than six and a half million citizens living in an area roughly the size of New Jersey, Israel has proportionally more enemies than any nation on earth. No nation has been threatened more often with divestment, boycotts, and other sanctions. No nation has generated more protests against it on college and university campuses. No nation has been targeted for as much editorial abuse from the worldwide media. No nation has been subjected to more frequent threats of annihilation. No nation has had more genocidal incitements directed against its citizens. It is remarkable indeed that a democratic nation born in response to a decision of the United Nations should still not be accepted by so many countries, groups, and individuals. No other UN member is threatened with physical destruction by other member states so openly and with so little rebuke from the General Assembly or the Security Council. Indeed, no nation, regardless of its size or the number of deaths it has caused, has been condemned as often by the UN and its constituent bodies. Simply put, no nation is hated as much as the Jewish nation.
You look toward the United Nations, which Ambassador Dore Gold calls 'the Tower of Babble'. You look at Europe, where the ghost of Hitler is again walking across the stage of history. You open your newspapers and read about American universities, where Israel is being vilified by students taught by professors whose Middle Eastern chairs are sponsored by Saudi Arabia. You look to America's mainline churches and see their initiatives to divest from Israel. You go to the bookstore and see slanderous titles by the former president of the United States - and you feel very much alone.
The redirect Isnotreal has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 30 § Isnotreal until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 07:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Criticism of Israel article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Criticism of Israel. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Criticism of Israel at the Reference desk. |
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 9 July 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Criticism of the Israeli government to Criticism of Israel. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – Material Works 10:35, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Criticism of the Israeli government → Criticism of Israel – The current name is not reflective of realities. The article content refers to criticism of the whole of the state of Israel: its government, judiciary and parliament. It does not exclusively refer to criticism of the government. Moreover, current title implies there is the same government that is being criticized, ignoring the frequent government changes in Israel over the past decades, from left to right to far-right, etc.. And most importantly, "criticism of Israel" is the most common name in online sources, "criticism of the Israeli government" does not even come close. Makeandtoss ( talk) 09:51, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
its government, judiciary and parliament. I think that Criticism of the Israeli government is the more precise title, as it avoids any unnecessary antisemitic connotations that could arise if readers think that Criticism of Israel includes criticism of Israelis. — Freoh 17:42, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
I think it would be best to include a small note that the IHRA Working Definition of Antisemitism is a non-legally binding statement on what antisemitism. The language used in mentioning it in the beginning paragraph in Comparisons with Nazi Germany appears to lend a sense of official conclusion regarding the comparisons between Nazi Germany being antisemitism rather than them being legitimate scholarly discourse. Perhaps a rewording could help or a small note that the definition has its own criticisms and is a non-legally binding statement. Odin Vex ( talk) 16:47, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I would like to request an edit. The specific passage in question is as follows:
Original: "In 2002 Desmond Tutu is a critic of Israel who has compared Israel's policies to apartheid South Africa. Tutu wrote that criticism of Israel is suppressed in the United States, and that criticisms of Israel are 'immediately dubbed anti-Semitic'.”
Proposed Amendment: "In 2002, Desmond Tutu, a critic of Israel, compared Israel's policies to apartheid-era South Africa. Tutu wrote that criticism of Israel is suppressed in the United States, and that criticisms of Israel are 'immediately dubbed anti-Semitic'.” Bernsteinnn ( talk) 05:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
The current first paragraph contains the following sentence:
First, I propose to remove all citations to Alan Deshowitz's book which has been exposed as a fraud, with multiple sections plagiarized directly from another fraud (Joan Peters' book).
Second, I propose to remove citation 3 here which includes a quote which is definitely not NPOV, and is hardly relevant to the topic.
Third, I propose to remove citation 4 which is more of a response to criticisms rather than criticisms in their own right, so it's not a good citation for this first sentence. This article also conflates the notion of criticism of Israel with "vilification" of Israel.
I also propose to rework this sentence to be more consistent with the rest of the article and remove vague or non-essential content:
DMH43 ( talk) 03:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
References
The Jewish nation of Israel stands accused in the dock of international justice. The charges include being a criminal state, the prime violator of human rights, the mirror image of Nazism, and the most intransigent barrier to peace in the Middle East. Throughout the world, from the chambers of the United Nations to the campuses of universities, Israel is singled out for condemnation, divestment, boycott and demonization.
For a tiny nation of little more than six and a half million citizens living in an area roughly the size of New Jersey, Israel has proportionally more enemies than any nation on earth. No nation has been threatened more often with divestment, boycotts, and other sanctions. No nation has generated more protests against it on college and university campuses. No nation has been targeted for as much editorial abuse from the worldwide media. No nation has been subjected to more frequent threats of annihilation. No nation has had more genocidal incitements directed against its citizens. It is remarkable indeed that a democratic nation born in response to a decision of the United Nations should still not be accepted by so many countries, groups, and individuals. No other UN member is threatened with physical destruction by other member states so openly and with so little rebuke from the General Assembly or the Security Council. Indeed, no nation, regardless of its size or the number of deaths it has caused, has been condemned as often by the UN and its constituent bodies. Simply put, no nation is hated as much as the Jewish nation.
You look toward the United Nations, which Ambassador Dore Gold calls 'the Tower of Babble'. You look at Europe, where the ghost of Hitler is again walking across the stage of history. You open your newspapers and read about American universities, where Israel is being vilified by students taught by professors whose Middle Eastern chairs are sponsored by Saudi Arabia. You look to America's mainline churches and see their initiatives to divest from Israel. You go to the bookstore and see slanderous titles by the former president of the United States - and you feel very much alone.
The redirect Isnotreal has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 30 § Isnotreal until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 07:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)