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There is a variant that I loved. It was called Carol of the Flyers. Forget the bells. It used farm animals, mostly chickens. Each animal played a different part. The chickens in particular would cluck at different frequencies. Then all the sudden they all become very quiet as though they are listening to something. It's a baby (Jesus) crying. Will ( Talk - contribs) 07:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey folks. I know that "lyrics" is a commonly-used term for the words to a song. Should we use the word "lyric" (since it's the correct singular term), or should we use "lyrics" (the common yet incorrect term)? Just looking for a little advice on that. :) Bdevoe 18:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
On 15 Dec 06, user 64.228.132.25 added that there was a popular rendition of Carol of the Bells as a collaboration between Trans-Siberian Orchestra and Metallica. I have been totally unable to locate any kind of reference to this. This carols is one of my favorites and if one existed, I would like to have it. :) However, I believe that it's likely a misunderstanding on 64.228.132.25's part (commonly made) and is actually just the TSO/Christmas in Sarajevo version with members of Savatage. If anyone can find a true citation for the Metallica version, I would appreciate it. Bdevoe 01:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know, the reason people think Metallica is on this song is because back in the limewire days that's how it was labeled. I'm pretty sure it was just mislabeling since the song does sound like Metallica. There may have been mislabeling before limewire days, but this is the first instance I'm aware of. 10:22, 28 November 2015 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.232.162 ( talk)
What are the rules on lyrics? It seems like the ultimate in enycopedic information about a song- the song itself. And it would do wonders for searching for a song that you only know the famous lyrics of but not the actual title, like Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme when you want Scarboroughfair/Canticle. It does seem perfect but almost every song on here doesn't have the lyrics. Most articles have links to the lyrics but not the lyrics themselves. Are they banned by any specific rule like page size, notability or even copyrite issues? I'm not suggesting we remove it, I', just curious as to why most pages don't have it. Is there a rule you could point me at? Simondrake 04:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Who actually did the Home Alone versions?
You guys do realize that this link simply links back to the original page, right? I mean, if someone is willing to make an article on this parody, then they can put in the link, but what use is a link that goes nowhere? Leprechaun Gamer ( talk) 05:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
This piece has enough of a foothold in western culture to merit its own page. The history and relation to Shchedryk is relevant to the western translation and the page should stay separate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.64.91 ( talk) 19:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Also keep in mind that "Shchedryk" existed with two text variants made by Leontovych. The standard "Shchedryk" has a pre-Christian pagan text, the other has a christian religious text - "Tam na richtsi na Yordani" which during the period of Soviet occupation was not used in performance or publication. Bandurist ( talk) 19:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
There is a Lemko church ic Passaic that also claims to have something to do with this song. I'll see if I can find a link. Pustelnik ( talk) 14:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Carol of the Old Ones at YouTube
Is a terrific song about Cthulhu returning. I think it's based on Carol of the Bells and perhaps should be mentioned as well as other variants. 70.6.206.196 ( talk) 22:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC) 70.6.206.196 ( talk) 22:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the Family Guy references:
193.171.40.5 ( talk) 22:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
– jaksmata 15:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
To prevent this article from becoming a list of every artist who has ever performed "Carol of the Bells", I propose including only recordings that have, independent of the artist, achieved notability. In other words, only songs that have or could have articles per these Wikipedia notability guidelines should be mentioned here. This would apply to any mention of performances or parodies of this song. – jaksmata 16:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Even ignoring whether the article is better or worse for the entire lyrics appearing on the page, according to U.S. Copyright law, that copyright exists for 70 years after the author's death. Peter Wilhousky died in 1978, meaning that his lyrics are copyright until 2048. Shouldn't they be removed? -- Jayron32. talk. contribs 19:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Both are hilarious, and play every year for some time now. Lowellt ( talk) 16:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I didn't return the edit, but I believe there are many people worldwide that look up the song and its background because of these current, sometime parodied, versions of the melody and their usage in popular culture. I don't see it as diminishing from the value of this work nor do I see anything wrong with mentioning the different variations, and surely not to exclude the ones that ran on television worldwide. Clearly, this was a source of much of the traffic to this entry. Are we serving the people's desire for knowledge or our own "elite" status by removing it? Keepitreal74 ( talk) 05:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Here are the notability guidelines. Just being there doesn't make it notable, there has to be outside coverage. This is not to ensure some sort of elitist standard, but to maintain WP:verifiability. Not everyone is going to watch television enough to see the commercials (I honestly wouldn't remember them if it weren't for people reinserting it over and over into the article). Ian.thomson ( talk) 13:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Aw...but the Garmin moose song is so funny! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.170.154 ( talk) 11:40, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
The "Carol of the Bells" is also known as the "Ukrainian Bell Carol". Garik 11 ( talk · contribs), can you give any good justification for removing this from the article and denying any reference to this? Maybe no one refers to it as such where you're from or you simply don't much about the song, but please don't start an edit war.-- Boguslav M 19:50, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
http://www.amazon.com/Ukrainian-Bell-Carol/dp/B0013GJBH8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322372544&sr=8-1
Mykyta ( talk) 05:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Oh come on already, seriously? "common English language title " ? It's very awkward at the very least. Why is another name of the carol, "Ukrainian Bell Carol", not addded? As you can see from the above links, there are many recordings and especially music sheets that refer to the carol by this name. The article is incomplete and inaccurate without it. At top of this discussion it was said that if a reliable source can be shown that the carol is also know as Ukrainian Bell Carol, it will be restored. Is Amazon not a reliable source? Mykyta ( talk) 00:27, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Firstly, please explain how I'm being disrespectful, would like to understand that. You stated above that in your opinion, there are 2 instances when this carol is called "Ukrainian Bell carol":
1) When the original lyrics are in Ukrainian - yet the Vienna choir boys recording to which I provided a link above, sing in English. Here is another link to a recording by Columbia Choir Boys. It's titled Ukrainian Bell Carol and even refers to "Carol of the bells" in brackets. There is a sample recording where you can hear the beautiful English rendition. http://www.amazon.com/Ukrainian-Bell-Carol-Bells/dp/B006AT6M4S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1322626243&sr=8-4
2) When we deal with an instrumental interpreation of Shchedryk - aren't all instrumental versions some sort of interpretations of Schedryk anyway? Nonetheless , here is another link to music notes where the piece is "arranged in Celtic style" and yet it is titled "Ukrainian Bell Carol". Please turn to page 3 on the link where you're allowed to "see inside"
At the risk of sounding disrespectful to you again, IMO, I don't think it counts what your personal opinion is when this song is called Ukrainian Bell Carol or Carol of the bells. What counts is that it is called both names. and for that reason, the name "Ukrainian Bell Carol" needs to be restored in the article. Mykyta ( talk) 04:29, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
All I was suggesting is that the name "Ukrainian Bell Carol" be restored back in the article. You might consider track listing unreliable, but I provided at least 2 links where the image of the actual item was used, so you can see clearly that this title is still used in the music world. I could also scan some of my music notes with that name, but I don't think it should be necessary. The name may not be as common as Carol of the Bells, but for accuracy and completeness it needs to be mentioned as an alternate title.
I would also like to say something about your comment regarding "nationalistic phrase" although it's just my opinion. I noticed that it's now used often in wikipedia, dismisively, as if there is something inherently wrong with someone keeping track of their country's accomplishments or contributions. You're probabaly right and in the global scheme of things it's silly and unimportant, but sometimes you just need to look at the source. Countries like Great Britain or Austria my not care if Silent Night for example, is noted as an Austrian or English carol - they have many, many contributions throughout the hundreds of years they were free to do so, but for countries, which have just emerged after sometimes hundreds of years of struggle, for countries that are smaller, this medium is the only way to keep track. It's a way of acknowledging that they're now free to do so, they're not silenced and told that they don't exist. It's not just Ukrainians, you can check others - countries in the Balkans or Israel or Jewish people not connected with Israel - anyone who struggled for years for the very existence. Sorry for being long winded, that's my rant for the day, I'll probably delete it later.
Anyway, stating that the carol is of Ukrainian origin is not nationalistic - it's just a fact? Mykyta ( talk) 00:12, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I did not intend this as a nationalistic argument at first. I simply wanted another, alternative name of the carol restored in the article, a name by which I and many others originally learned this carol. When I think of music, I don't think of Oxford books of whatever as the ultimate authority. Music is alive in what people sing, record, in the concerts of school or church choirs. As shown above, there are many recordings and music sheets and therefore there are many people who know and refer to this carol as "Ukrainian Bell Carol" regardless of what an authority such as Oxford Book says. To actually ignore the fact that the same exact song you call "Carol of the bells" has also many other recording as "Ukrainian Bell Carol" is a willful disregard of facts and frankly makes me think that there is something else at play here. I would like someone to review this discussion Mykyta ( talk) 02:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, I just checked and Oxford Book of Carols doesn't have this carol at all - does it mean that it exists? Mykyta ( talk) 02:35, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
And here is another thing , go on youtube and see how many English speaking school orchestras and school choirs uploaded their performances of this carol and called it "Ukrainian Bell Carol". This name is alive and well outside of stuffy Oxford books and Wikepedia should acknowledge it. For your enjoyment ( or maybe not so much in some cases)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lUsYcoOQM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bDYoa6fv8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWi4zbdpK1w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bDYoa6fv8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOeFbVecwxw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s83mp6bxe4 Mykyta ( talk) 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
When we speak about "Carol of the Bells" please keep in mind that we are specifically talking about the version that uses the copyrighted english text produced by Wilhousky to which royalty payments continue to go. When we speak about the Ukrainian Bell Carol no royalties are paid because the piece is not copyrighted. Many instrumental versions are noted such, in order not to pay royalties to someone who did not create the music. Bandurist ( talk) 12:32, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdVPE.asp?ppn=MN0087460
http://www.onlinesheetmusic.com/title-p375436.aspx http://www.music-scores.com/leontovich/composer.php http://musescore.org/en/node/3691 http://www.8notes.com/scores/9648.asp Mykyta ( talk) 06:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
By the way, your "reliable website" calls Peter Wilhousky, "the composer" of the song. Mykyta ( talk) 07:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC) What now? I disagree and I don't think one person's opinion cannot be the final decision? Is there a way to appeaal it? Mykyta ( talk) 19:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
How is that discussion of reliable sources coming? The reason I as is obvious: an anonymous editor added the information to the lede and another editor has removed it for various reasons. In short, an paragraph about the alternate title must be added to the body so that the section in the lede may remain. I will not "protect" the addition after today. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:42, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think this is true. It's not well known in the UK, for example - most British people have only heard it in American films/TV programs and so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.148.157 ( talk) 23:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I read with incredulity that the four-note ostinato is a "blending of a 2 vs. 3 beat pattern." I've never heard that before. Yes, I can see how it can be that. But is it really? Is that what the composer really had in mind? Or is it just the rhythm within the confines of a triple meter, mostly due to syllabification of the original Ukraine text. I would need a citation to justify this remark, especially since it also shows up in the entry for "polyrhythm," which it definitely is NOT an example of in that discussion. -- B0cean ( talk) 06:30, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Should Pentatonix be included in the list, given that their cover of the song is notable? - Mardus ( talk) 17:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Here I added a version by Pentatonix to the list, given that I deem it a notable version of the song, as it has gotten very good reception on YouTube. User:Walter Görlitz removed the listing in short order. - Mardus ( talk) 17:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
See RfC question.
The issue is that some notable versions are probably kept away, because the threshold of notablity might be higher for some editors. - Mardus ( talk) 17:46, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
August Burns Red released their own version of this song on several albums! It was originally released on the X Christmas collaboration in 2008, [1] Lost Messengers: The Outtakes in 2009, Constellations bonus Christmas version in 2009, as well as August Burns Red Presents: Sleddin' Hill in 2012. — Tha†emoover†here (talk) 22:06, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Walter Görlitz recently reverted an edit I made using this site as a source, stating that it was unreliable. Can you please explain? In terms of documenting internet phenomena, it's one of the most reliable sources I know of. You can see from its accolades that I'm not the only one who thinks this. -- Lasunncty ( talk) 01:54, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I've been directed here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#LQ for moving a period inside a "quote" for the translation of the Ukrainian title. It's not a quote that someone said, it's just stylistic quotes. From what I can tell, this portion of the MOS is concerned with punctuation of quotations only. I will leave it outside, but want to discuss. 162.206.141.210 ( talk) 18:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
(is this an adequate source for the article?)
The song Carol Of The Bells is sung starting a couple minutes after the start of the 1994 movie The Santa Clause during the opening credits, lasting a little over a minute. (Some consider this to be one of the best performances. The singers are obscure/uncertain. The recording may not have ever been published, other than as part of the movie itself.)-
71.174.188.32 (
talk) 23:42, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
Another possibility is that this performance of "Carol of the Bells" is from the NOV., 1951, Capitol Records Release (on 45 rpm or 78 rpm) of "Christmas In The Air" (multiple 45s or 78s in a box set): performed by the "Voices of Walter Schumann." If this was performed by the Singing Sergeants, then the Sergeants made this recording in 1951!! -- or they are clones, maybe?? If so, they used the exact same arrangement!! (See reference in Billboard, Nov 1951: https://books.google.com/books?id=6kQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=album+recordings+wonderful+counselor+and+carol+of+the+bells&source=bl&ots=5EAUsduGeW&sig=ACfU3U1_pizwGcO4HKcwhyzwh_IHDto-6w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU957HuqfmAhVlJzQIHeHqB90Q6AEwCnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=album%20recordings%20wonderful%20counselor%20and%20carol%20of%20the%20bells&f=false
DVD credits listed at end: Songs "CAROL OF THE BELLS" Written by Peter Wilhousky
(No performers etc credited.)
What would be the best way to credit either or both of these sources in the article?-
71.174.188.32 (
talk) 16:57, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
Ward Swingle moved to London in 1973 - IIRC those recordings were done with the reformed group, please check/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.250.71.167 ( talk) 00:59, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Apart from in a couple of American shows I don't think I've heard this in the UK. I doubt many Brits would have a clue what this tune is. Should it be noted that this is relatively obscure outside the US? 86.171.52.134 ( talk) 09:30, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
I made an addition to the "In popular culture" section, noting that the song appeared in the South Park episode, "Mr Hankey's Christmas Classics." Another editor removed the addition. I went to his talk page to ask why the South Park appearance was any less appropriate or noteworthy than the other instances already described in the article. The question was removed without comment. I don't want to start an edit war but I don't understand why Mr. Mackey's version doesn't belong up there with the Muppets'. PurpleChez ( talk) 15:46, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm gae 85.254.74.88 ( talk) 08:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Somebody please extend the section "Notable recordings" through the very beautiful non-lexical version of Dan Hicks (singer) in his 2010 album "Crazy for Christmas". It can be found in Youtube (Carol of the Bells, Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks). I do not write English so well and do not dare to edit the English Wikipedia by myself. Grunte ( talk) 20:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
About reverting the added reference: The same version used as the opening theme is used in a lot YT videos. My daughter knew the name of the song, but I had to ask ChatGPT where I new that from mainly from and wasn't disappointed, quite opposite to the article which lacked the information. Imagine how often this one is played every day, compared to e.g. an original recording of an orchestra. Plus the link form NOS4A2 to this article doesn't name the performing artist(s), which has/have to be added here. Mideal ( talk) 10:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
An editor added to the IPC section "Featured in the Doctor Who episode 'Church on Ruby Road' with Ncuti Gatwa's first solo outing as the Doctor." with no source. Sourcing is required, not only to avoid WP:OR, but to keep fan-sighting out and only add items that have at least gotten some coverage to establish the significance of its usage.
I deleted it as "unsourced, no indication of significance"; the same editor re-added it, again without any source or other basis to show its significance.
I still believe it should be deleted; otherwise articles on any song get filled with fancruft of editors adding any OR-sighting of music in their personal favorite films or show, without any regard to the actual importance as noted in third-party coverage; but I'm not going to edit-war. I've flagged it as needing a cite for now, but it's still probably best to delete it absent a showing of cultural significance. TJRC ( talk) 19:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
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There is a variant that I loved. It was called Carol of the Flyers. Forget the bells. It used farm animals, mostly chickens. Each animal played a different part. The chickens in particular would cluck at different frequencies. Then all the sudden they all become very quiet as though they are listening to something. It's a baby (Jesus) crying. Will ( Talk - contribs) 07:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Hey folks. I know that "lyrics" is a commonly-used term for the words to a song. Should we use the word "lyric" (since it's the correct singular term), or should we use "lyrics" (the common yet incorrect term)? Just looking for a little advice on that. :) Bdevoe 18:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
On 15 Dec 06, user 64.228.132.25 added that there was a popular rendition of Carol of the Bells as a collaboration between Trans-Siberian Orchestra and Metallica. I have been totally unable to locate any kind of reference to this. This carols is one of my favorites and if one existed, I would like to have it. :) However, I believe that it's likely a misunderstanding on 64.228.132.25's part (commonly made) and is actually just the TSO/Christmas in Sarajevo version with members of Savatage. If anyone can find a true citation for the Metallica version, I would appreciate it. Bdevoe 01:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I know, the reason people think Metallica is on this song is because back in the limewire days that's how it was labeled. I'm pretty sure it was just mislabeling since the song does sound like Metallica. There may have been mislabeling before limewire days, but this is the first instance I'm aware of. 10:22, 28 November 2015 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.232.162 ( talk)
What are the rules on lyrics? It seems like the ultimate in enycopedic information about a song- the song itself. And it would do wonders for searching for a song that you only know the famous lyrics of but not the actual title, like Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme when you want Scarboroughfair/Canticle. It does seem perfect but almost every song on here doesn't have the lyrics. Most articles have links to the lyrics but not the lyrics themselves. Are they banned by any specific rule like page size, notability or even copyrite issues? I'm not suggesting we remove it, I', just curious as to why most pages don't have it. Is there a rule you could point me at? Simondrake 04:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Who actually did the Home Alone versions?
You guys do realize that this link simply links back to the original page, right? I mean, if someone is willing to make an article on this parody, then they can put in the link, but what use is a link that goes nowhere? Leprechaun Gamer ( talk) 05:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
This piece has enough of a foothold in western culture to merit its own page. The history and relation to Shchedryk is relevant to the western translation and the page should stay separate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.64.91 ( talk) 19:51, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Also keep in mind that "Shchedryk" existed with two text variants made by Leontovych. The standard "Shchedryk" has a pre-Christian pagan text, the other has a christian religious text - "Tam na richtsi na Yordani" which during the period of Soviet occupation was not used in performance or publication. Bandurist ( talk) 19:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
There is a Lemko church ic Passaic that also claims to have something to do with this song. I'll see if I can find a link. Pustelnik ( talk) 14:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Carol of the Old Ones at YouTube
Is a terrific song about Cthulhu returning. I think it's based on Carol of the Bells and perhaps should be mentioned as well as other variants. 70.6.206.196 ( talk) 22:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC) 70.6.206.196 ( talk) 22:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the Family Guy references:
193.171.40.5 ( talk) 22:44, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
– jaksmata 15:30, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
To prevent this article from becoming a list of every artist who has ever performed "Carol of the Bells", I propose including only recordings that have, independent of the artist, achieved notability. In other words, only songs that have or could have articles per these Wikipedia notability guidelines should be mentioned here. This would apply to any mention of performances or parodies of this song. – jaksmata 16:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Even ignoring whether the article is better or worse for the entire lyrics appearing on the page, according to U.S. Copyright law, that copyright exists for 70 years after the author's death. Peter Wilhousky died in 1978, meaning that his lyrics are copyright until 2048. Shouldn't they be removed? -- Jayron32. talk. contribs 19:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Both are hilarious, and play every year for some time now. Lowellt ( talk) 16:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I didn't return the edit, but I believe there are many people worldwide that look up the song and its background because of these current, sometime parodied, versions of the melody and their usage in popular culture. I don't see it as diminishing from the value of this work nor do I see anything wrong with mentioning the different variations, and surely not to exclude the ones that ran on television worldwide. Clearly, this was a source of much of the traffic to this entry. Are we serving the people's desire for knowledge or our own "elite" status by removing it? Keepitreal74 ( talk) 05:01, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Here are the notability guidelines. Just being there doesn't make it notable, there has to be outside coverage. This is not to ensure some sort of elitist standard, but to maintain WP:verifiability. Not everyone is going to watch television enough to see the commercials (I honestly wouldn't remember them if it weren't for people reinserting it over and over into the article). Ian.thomson ( talk) 13:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
Aw...but the Garmin moose song is so funny! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.170.154 ( talk) 11:40, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
The "Carol of the Bells" is also known as the "Ukrainian Bell Carol". Garik 11 ( talk · contribs), can you give any good justification for removing this from the article and denying any reference to this? Maybe no one refers to it as such where you're from or you simply don't much about the song, but please don't start an edit war.-- Boguslav M 19:50, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
http://www.amazon.com/Ukrainian-Bell-Carol/dp/B0013GJBH8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322372544&sr=8-1
Mykyta ( talk) 05:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
Oh come on already, seriously? "common English language title " ? It's very awkward at the very least. Why is another name of the carol, "Ukrainian Bell Carol", not addded? As you can see from the above links, there are many recordings and especially music sheets that refer to the carol by this name. The article is incomplete and inaccurate without it. At top of this discussion it was said that if a reliable source can be shown that the carol is also know as Ukrainian Bell Carol, it will be restored. Is Amazon not a reliable source? Mykyta ( talk) 00:27, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
Firstly, please explain how I'm being disrespectful, would like to understand that. You stated above that in your opinion, there are 2 instances when this carol is called "Ukrainian Bell carol":
1) When the original lyrics are in Ukrainian - yet the Vienna choir boys recording to which I provided a link above, sing in English. Here is another link to a recording by Columbia Choir Boys. It's titled Ukrainian Bell Carol and even refers to "Carol of the bells" in brackets. There is a sample recording where you can hear the beautiful English rendition. http://www.amazon.com/Ukrainian-Bell-Carol-Bells/dp/B006AT6M4S/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1322626243&sr=8-4
2) When we deal with an instrumental interpreation of Shchedryk - aren't all instrumental versions some sort of interpretations of Schedryk anyway? Nonetheless , here is another link to music notes where the piece is "arranged in Celtic style" and yet it is titled "Ukrainian Bell Carol". Please turn to page 3 on the link where you're allowed to "see inside"
At the risk of sounding disrespectful to you again, IMO, I don't think it counts what your personal opinion is when this song is called Ukrainian Bell Carol or Carol of the bells. What counts is that it is called both names. and for that reason, the name "Ukrainian Bell Carol" needs to be restored in the article. Mykyta ( talk) 04:29, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
All I was suggesting is that the name "Ukrainian Bell Carol" be restored back in the article. You might consider track listing unreliable, but I provided at least 2 links where the image of the actual item was used, so you can see clearly that this title is still used in the music world. I could also scan some of my music notes with that name, but I don't think it should be necessary. The name may not be as common as Carol of the Bells, but for accuracy and completeness it needs to be mentioned as an alternate title.
I would also like to say something about your comment regarding "nationalistic phrase" although it's just my opinion. I noticed that it's now used often in wikipedia, dismisively, as if there is something inherently wrong with someone keeping track of their country's accomplishments or contributions. You're probabaly right and in the global scheme of things it's silly and unimportant, but sometimes you just need to look at the source. Countries like Great Britain or Austria my not care if Silent Night for example, is noted as an Austrian or English carol - they have many, many contributions throughout the hundreds of years they were free to do so, but for countries, which have just emerged after sometimes hundreds of years of struggle, for countries that are smaller, this medium is the only way to keep track. It's a way of acknowledging that they're now free to do so, they're not silenced and told that they don't exist. It's not just Ukrainians, you can check others - countries in the Balkans or Israel or Jewish people not connected with Israel - anyone who struggled for years for the very existence. Sorry for being long winded, that's my rant for the day, I'll probably delete it later.
Anyway, stating that the carol is of Ukrainian origin is not nationalistic - it's just a fact? Mykyta ( talk) 00:12, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I did not intend this as a nationalistic argument at first. I simply wanted another, alternative name of the carol restored in the article, a name by which I and many others originally learned this carol. When I think of music, I don't think of Oxford books of whatever as the ultimate authority. Music is alive in what people sing, record, in the concerts of school or church choirs. As shown above, there are many recordings and music sheets and therefore there are many people who know and refer to this carol as "Ukrainian Bell Carol" regardless of what an authority such as Oxford Book says. To actually ignore the fact that the same exact song you call "Carol of the bells" has also many other recording as "Ukrainian Bell Carol" is a willful disregard of facts and frankly makes me think that there is something else at play here. I would like someone to review this discussion Mykyta ( talk) 02:30, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, I just checked and Oxford Book of Carols doesn't have this carol at all - does it mean that it exists? Mykyta ( talk) 02:35, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
And here is another thing , go on youtube and see how many English speaking school orchestras and school choirs uploaded their performances of this carol and called it "Ukrainian Bell Carol". This name is alive and well outside of stuffy Oxford books and Wikepedia should acknowledge it. For your enjoyment ( or maybe not so much in some cases)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1lUsYcoOQM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bDYoa6fv8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWi4zbdpK1w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5bDYoa6fv8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOeFbVecwxw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s83mp6bxe4 Mykyta ( talk) 03:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
When we speak about "Carol of the Bells" please keep in mind that we are specifically talking about the version that uses the copyrighted english text produced by Wilhousky to which royalty payments continue to go. When we speak about the Ukrainian Bell Carol no royalties are paid because the piece is not copyrighted. Many instrumental versions are noted such, in order not to pay royalties to someone who did not create the music. Bandurist ( talk) 12:32, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdVPE.asp?ppn=MN0087460
http://www.onlinesheetmusic.com/title-p375436.aspx http://www.music-scores.com/leontovich/composer.php http://musescore.org/en/node/3691 http://www.8notes.com/scores/9648.asp Mykyta ( talk) 06:08, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
By the way, your "reliable website" calls Peter Wilhousky, "the composer" of the song. Mykyta ( talk) 07:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC) What now? I disagree and I don't think one person's opinion cannot be the final decision? Is there a way to appeaal it? Mykyta ( talk) 19:56, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
How is that discussion of reliable sources coming? The reason I as is obvious: an anonymous editor added the information to the lede and another editor has removed it for various reasons. In short, an paragraph about the alternate title must be added to the body so that the section in the lede may remain. I will not "protect" the addition after today. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:42, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't think this is true. It's not well known in the UK, for example - most British people have only heard it in American films/TV programs and so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.194.148.157 ( talk) 23:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
I read with incredulity that the four-note ostinato is a "blending of a 2 vs. 3 beat pattern." I've never heard that before. Yes, I can see how it can be that. But is it really? Is that what the composer really had in mind? Or is it just the rhythm within the confines of a triple meter, mostly due to syllabification of the original Ukraine text. I would need a citation to justify this remark, especially since it also shows up in the entry for "polyrhythm," which it definitely is NOT an example of in that discussion. -- B0cean ( talk) 06:30, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Should Pentatonix be included in the list, given that their cover of the song is notable? - Mardus ( talk) 17:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Here I added a version by Pentatonix to the list, given that I deem it a notable version of the song, as it has gotten very good reception on YouTube. User:Walter Görlitz removed the listing in short order. - Mardus ( talk) 17:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
See RfC question.
The issue is that some notable versions are probably kept away, because the threshold of notablity might be higher for some editors. - Mardus ( talk) 17:46, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
August Burns Red released their own version of this song on several albums! It was originally released on the X Christmas collaboration in 2008, [1] Lost Messengers: The Outtakes in 2009, Constellations bonus Christmas version in 2009, as well as August Burns Red Presents: Sleddin' Hill in 2012. — Tha†emoover†here (talk) 22:06, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Walter Görlitz recently reverted an edit I made using this site as a source, stating that it was unreliable. Can you please explain? In terms of documenting internet phenomena, it's one of the most reliable sources I know of. You can see from its accolades that I'm not the only one who thinks this. -- Lasunncty ( talk) 01:54, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I've been directed here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#LQ for moving a period inside a "quote" for the translation of the Ukrainian title. It's not a quote that someone said, it's just stylistic quotes. From what I can tell, this portion of the MOS is concerned with punctuation of quotations only. I will leave it outside, but want to discuss. 162.206.141.210 ( talk) 18:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
(is this an adequate source for the article?)
The song Carol Of The Bells is sung starting a couple minutes after the start of the 1994 movie The Santa Clause during the opening credits, lasting a little over a minute. (Some consider this to be one of the best performances. The singers are obscure/uncertain. The recording may not have ever been published, other than as part of the movie itself.)-
71.174.188.32 (
talk) 23:42, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
Another possibility is that this performance of "Carol of the Bells" is from the NOV., 1951, Capitol Records Release (on 45 rpm or 78 rpm) of "Christmas In The Air" (multiple 45s or 78s in a box set): performed by the "Voices of Walter Schumann." If this was performed by the Singing Sergeants, then the Sergeants made this recording in 1951!! -- or they are clones, maybe?? If so, they used the exact same arrangement!! (See reference in Billboard, Nov 1951: https://books.google.com/books?id=6kQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=album+recordings+wonderful+counselor+and+carol+of+the+bells&source=bl&ots=5EAUsduGeW&sig=ACfU3U1_pizwGcO4HKcwhyzwh_IHDto-6w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiU957HuqfmAhVlJzQIHeHqB90Q6AEwCnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=album%20recordings%20wonderful%20counselor%20and%20carol%20of%20the%20bells&f=false
DVD credits listed at end: Songs "CAROL OF THE BELLS" Written by Peter Wilhousky
(No performers etc credited.)
What would be the best way to credit either or both of these sources in the article?-
71.174.188.32 (
talk) 16:57, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
Ward Swingle moved to London in 1973 - IIRC those recordings were done with the reformed group, please check/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.250.71.167 ( talk) 00:59, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
Apart from in a couple of American shows I don't think I've heard this in the UK. I doubt many Brits would have a clue what this tune is. Should it be noted that this is relatively obscure outside the US? 86.171.52.134 ( talk) 09:30, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
I made an addition to the "In popular culture" section, noting that the song appeared in the South Park episode, "Mr Hankey's Christmas Classics." Another editor removed the addition. I went to his talk page to ask why the South Park appearance was any less appropriate or noteworthy than the other instances already described in the article. The question was removed without comment. I don't want to start an edit war but I don't understand why Mr. Mackey's version doesn't belong up there with the Muppets'. PurpleChez ( talk) 15:46, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm gae 85.254.74.88 ( talk) 08:15, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
Somebody please extend the section "Notable recordings" through the very beautiful non-lexical version of Dan Hicks (singer) in his 2010 album "Crazy for Christmas". It can be found in Youtube (Carol of the Bells, Dan Hicks and the Hot Licks). I do not write English so well and do not dare to edit the English Wikipedia by myself. Grunte ( talk) 20:30, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
About reverting the added reference: The same version used as the opening theme is used in a lot YT videos. My daughter knew the name of the song, but I had to ask ChatGPT where I new that from mainly from and wasn't disappointed, quite opposite to the article which lacked the information. Imagine how often this one is played every day, compared to e.g. an original recording of an orchestra. Plus the link form NOS4A2 to this article doesn't name the performing artist(s), which has/have to be added here. Mideal ( talk) 10:01, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
An editor added to the IPC section "Featured in the Doctor Who episode 'Church on Ruby Road' with Ncuti Gatwa's first solo outing as the Doctor." with no source. Sourcing is required, not only to avoid WP:OR, but to keep fan-sighting out and only add items that have at least gotten some coverage to establish the significance of its usage.
I deleted it as "unsourced, no indication of significance"; the same editor re-added it, again without any source or other basis to show its significance.
I still believe it should be deleted; otherwise articles on any song get filled with fancruft of editors adding any OR-sighting of music in their personal favorite films or show, without any regard to the actual importance as noted in third-party coverage; but I'm not going to edit-war. I've flagged it as needing a cite for now, but it's still probably best to delete it absent a showing of cultural significance. TJRC ( talk) 19:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)