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This is my first time using the Talk page, so go easy with me, and please help me learn the etiquette for this. I was doing some copy editing on the Introduction of the page and noticed a paragraph on the doctrinal evolution of the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Catholicism that seemed a bit out of place. I'm unsure the author of it. Firstly I'd like to ask, is this even relevant for this page? It seems to pertain more to the cathedral (which has its own page) than the Camino. Secondly, if it is relevant, could someone please elucidate on what this doctrinal evolution is?? The original author seems to hint at something about the symbolism of relics, tombs, etc. (?), but I don't feel confident in saying what exactly that is. Finally, if anyone has a source(s) for the pope quotes used, it would be much appreciated; the section is currently bereft of any citations. Shawrkat ( talk) 03:50, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Its total length is .... km.- Mazarin07 ( talk) 16:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Finisterre, from the Latin Finis Terrae alludes to the westernmost point of Europe and is in three specific places: Galicia, Cornwall and Brittany, three of the more properly Celtic mainland territories. Moreover, the parallelism between the Galician and Breton Finisterre is emphasized by authors like ALARCÓN HERRERA in his In the Shadow of the Templars 1988.
The pilgrimage and the cult of the sun path is identified with the prehistoric symbol of the solar boat crossing the ocean to the west. This symbolism of the death of the Sun Road beyond was transmuted in classical times by the image of Charon crossing the Styx, which like the Solar boat transports the Hereafter from the east bank of the dead in search of the Promised Land . Rites that have survived until today, on the way to the more Western to die and be reborn in the gnostic and mystical plane banks. In this sense we can highlight the words of TW ROLLESTON, in his work The Celts, notes in this way, at pg. 62: "I believe that the full form of the megalithic symbol is the boat with figures and with the solar symbol above. These assume that the interpretation is correct, figures should be taken as representations of the dead on their journey to the afterlife "; (in this sense we can see how in the megalithic monuments, navetas take the form of an inverted boat shaped like other megalithic monuments In this regard, we can mention, for example, three analogies.'s's own shuttles, the Irish dolmens and the muogh Nevet of Malekula:
_ On Navetas: They have the shape of a ship with the inverted keel; and are as numerous experts, the representation of the solar boat, inside which the funeral rites of passage took place hereafter. Furthermore. On the Irish dolmens, as burial chambers with ticket broker: They are structures formed by cairns or stone chips like the navetas resemble an inverted boat. Respect thereto, W.C. Borlase, in his Dolmens of Ireland, not only puts these megaliths in relation menorquinas navetas; but also with the Scandinavian burial mounds, the sepulchral entrerramientos in boats across the Baltic and other forms of burial developed in the Iron Age.
_ On Nevet muogh: We can say that they were discovered by AB DEACON malecula on island in the Pacific, describing his work Malekula: A vanisshged People [1,934]. His work would be continued by JOHN LAYARD, the Stone Men of Malekula work, [1.942]. In this book, described as the inhabitants of Malekula ceremonial dolmen erected with blocks of coral, whose aim was to introduce the initiate in his sacred chamber for a time to be reborn to a new life: Knowledge; [as pick and Professor W. H. Rivers, in previous trials]. Meanwhile, the already mentioned A.B. DEACON, in Gnostic initiation of this distinguished company up to 32 degrees of refinement to reach the "Absolute Knowledge". In each and every one of these phases, played a vital role coral dolmen called muogh Nevet, [literally "Stone of Life"], which took three years to build; as well as the burial inside the camera, the initiate, a solar period of 30 days; in what was known as na-vot, ["chamber or place of rebirth"]).
It shall also be observed through different traditions; the most important, is the path of the current Camino de Santiago, which in pre-Christian times already ran in order to perform the ritual of seeing the sun die on their way to the Hereafter.
Finisterre's also in Celtic villages yet to dig, it seems that even the church of Santiago was put in there to stop the Celtic paganism, paganism which can also be seen in the very cathedral of Santiago, before the cathedral there was something in that place that is oriented in the way that they did it the Druids at that time, plus the very bowels of the cathedral seem to have something in previous years it was believed he was a legend, despite the Catholic church denies all the data and not allows research
Can also highlight the current pilgrimage to San Andrés de Teixido; where according to tradition the pilgrimage is essential, since the Galician said he prays: "Vai or non foi morto live"; include the dates of the pilgrimages, where in addition to other dates as Pentecost have been fixed: from August 16 to September 9, (which corresponds to the date of the Celtic celebration of Lughnasadh), from September 9 to 29 the same month (coinciding with the Celtic festival of Alban Elued) and from 27 to 30 November (coinciding with the end of the feast of Samhuinn). In addition, and according to tradition the deceased not having gone to the shrine in life, is not accompanied by a family member at his death, a stranger in a reptilian form (note the Orphic connotation).
While it can also stand out among the rites of pilgrimage to San Andrés de Teixido tradition of amilladoiros, testimonial pebbles which leaves behind him. The Rite (which is repeated on the Padron pedrón stones substituting coin), is identical to that developed by Celtic peoples, it was the custom to throw chinarros at the crossroads to ward off evil spirits. This rite reflected in the average age, identifies with the fact that the spells and pacts made with the devil at the crossroads, (here in Tragedy Policiana, 1,547 AD, Sebastian Fernandez, referred to in his act XXII to this Indeed, when it says: "Alla yras with devil facer conjuxuros by encrucixadas"); Finally, still in force today is the rite of amilladoiro to achieve Cebreiro Cross on the pilgrimage route, or solar shed casters to healing springs to cure some diseases (almost everyone in the habit of throwing coins into the water is inveterate).
This coincides Celtic cairn: artificial mound of rocks or slabs used in burials from the Neolithic era and today form landmark or cairn, which in turn is identified with the Castilian term amillarar. Or in other peoples such as Hebrew, that at funerals or whenever visiting a grave is the habit of leaving a testimonial stone; rite which remains in force; (Notice how this tradition remained within Christianity in the habit of touching the rock of Golgotha that is in the church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, where there is also the practice of throwing coins). The same tradition of forming cairns at crossroads is also in obos Mongols, Tibetans and Kazakhs. Furthermore, the idea of placing a stone on the graves is not limited to such cases; so the Ankou, which as recorded with his car to die, throws a stone thereof; and last but not least, the tradition of placing slabs and headstones on graves throughout the western area. Also, stand here the tradition of the "omphalos" type, as religious centers and abode of the souls of the departed; in which there were always sacred rocks or stones; (which can be linked with the Orphic connotation, cited above, and exemplified in stony monuments such as the currently known serpe in pedra da Coruña). Finally in relation to the tradition of death and resurrection of the Sun, is remarkable among Christianized traditional rites Danza das Areas in Finisterre during Easter to celebrate the death and resurrection of Christ; as before the death and resurrection of the sun was celebrated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.165.51.89 ( talk) 22:16, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
This may be the English translation of the words 'Camino de Santiago', but it is not the name of the Camino de Santiago in English. No-one who does the Camino ever calls it that. Can we move this to 'Camino de Santiago' please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.79.129.66 ( talk) 18:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I support a Camino de Santiago article as well as a way of St. James article, the Camino article representing the more secular interest in the Camino, and the St. James article representing the religious aspects. Any year's pilgrim statistics will show that about 50% of pilgrims getting the Compostella get it for religious reasons. They are well versed in the Catholic faith and the details in the current St. James articles. It appears to me that the religious faction controls the Camino de Santiago/St. James article at this time, and rigorously prunes out things that might be useful to the more secular pilgrim, such as route conditions, etc. In my experience in the United States, the Camino de Santiago is a much more widely known term for the route than is the Way of St. James. I suggest that the Camino de Santiago article be allowed to contain the more secular facts, and the Way of St. James article continue as it is at present. Since the religious/academic interests control this article at the moment, they will have to consent to this before it will happen. Just to be clear, I have web pages on the Camino de Santiago, and walking its routes in France, that I have been maintaining since 2003. They are excellent, useful links, more so than some of the official links that are allowed. I have added them, and they were deleted. Also my wife is a travel writer, with an award winning book on the Camino de Santiago, which I added, and it was deleted with some really inappropriate and inaccurate statements in the associated talk section. Backpack45scb ( talk) 20:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Santiago is the name of the place (destination). James is the name of the disciple of Jesus who came to Spain around 40CE. The invitations came for(from) the Jewish community in Santiago and their non-Jewish friends. They also served as sponsors for travel, stay and mission work. This occurred all over Europe, north Africa, central Asia, west Asia and south Asia. The people needed and wanted wisdom. The rulers of that period wanted to be .... JohnEC Jr ( talk) 01:08, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
Had a look at the links at the bottom. Removed a dead link. I'd suggest also removing http://www.caminosantiagodecompostela.com/ and http://www.santiago-compostela.net/ which both seem old and out of date.
And I'd suggest adding http://gospain.about.com/od/caminodesantiago/a/camino_santiago.htm The writer is a well known Spain travel writer (I heard him on the BBC a few days ago talking about Pamplona) and he did the Camino in 2009, so it's very up to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.79.129.66 ( talk) 18:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
reference #8 does not exist- there is no article by that name in that issue of Science. Mymerrytale ( talk) 22:26, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscrimate repository of hardly relevant information WP:INDISCRIMINATE frowns on Trivia WP:TRIVIA, demands reliable sources for anything contested WP:RS, should not pay undue attention to non-important facts WP:UNDUE.
The recently added, huge table with non-official routes and stopping places violates all above and is therefore making the article worse instead of better and it has to be removed unless each and every issue is satisfactorily solved BEFORE it is re-added.
Also, accusing a well established editor who removed some stuff violating all the above of vandalism; while doing so providing with a valid edit summary is at best WP:uncivil and bordering on a WP:personal attack. So no, I am not polite here. Arnoutf ( talk) 19:39, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm just back from walking the entire Camino Francés and not once did I hear an English speaker call it anything other than the "camino" or "camino de Santiago". It was certainly never called the "Way of St James" by English speakers. One non-English speaker asked a group of us one night what it was in English and we all agreed it is the Camino de Santiago. Even my guide, written in English by an English guy, was entitled the Camino de Santiago. This page should be changed to reflect this reality. 109.76.135.9 ( talk) 17:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
I reduced the ever expanding link collections. While there are 1,000s (if not more) websites, books and publications on the camino, some editors think their favorite should be here.
I removed obviously personal travellogues, commercial sites, and books where I could not see the notability of the book at all. I have as a rule kept books from 1995 in that are sufficiently notable to have an article on the book. Pre 1995 when the Camino was less popular I left books with a stated relation to the Camino in if at least hte author had an article.
Have I been too blunt? Please argue against me. These are the removed links:
From time to time editors add their local partition of the route that goes beyond the four French main starting places and the Iberian routes. All these early routes connect to the main routes in France (with the exception of Iberian routes).
So far, in this overview article we have not allowed routes beyond the main ones and Iberian routes. These are however summarised at
Way of St. James (route descriptions).
My question is now, should we start adding routes more far afield, or should we stick with the big 4 + iberia?
If we agree on the first option, it is in my view essential (because of neutral point of view and undue focus on certain bits of information) to provide a comprehensive overview of the routes far afield instead of focussing on whatever route the editor knows (recently it was a Polish route ending somewhere near the German border). My preference would be to leave the long routes to the specific
Way of St. James (route descriptions) and focus on the shorter routes here, but if there is a majority that sees otherwise, willing to reconsider.
Arnoutf (
talk) 17:30, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
This needs to be translated from French, and expanded to cover other countries (Poland, for example). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 18:35, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
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I see some problems with the following sentences from the scallop shell section: "Two versions of the most common myth about the origin of the symbol concern the death of Saint James, who was killed in Jerusalem for his convictions about his brother, John. James had spent some time preaching on the Iberian Peninsula."
1. It is kind of mixing myth / legend with Biblical evidence. I don't think any scholar doubts today that St. James was killed in Jerusalem, but several doubt that he ever preached / was in Spain.
2. "Saint James, who was killed in Jerusalem for his convictions about his brother, John." That is definitively wrong, St. James was decapitated, according to Acts 12, 1-3 because of being a Christian.
Thoughts? SybilleY ( talk) 10:33, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
As there has been some discussion about the External Links section as well as some reverting, I wanted to bring the discussion out to the open. In my opinion, there are two links (see below) that do not meet the requirements of WP:ELNO (a en.WP guideline). T
These two are both simply webpages with photos from pieces of the Way of St. James. Neither could count as a WP:RS. One of the two has been identified by the content editor as being his personal site. Also, as both are just for photos/music, neither really has any information that would be relevant to a reader. If the owners of said site wanted to have their photos seen by Wikipedia readers/editors, they should release said photos under a free license at WP:Commons. As these links have been removed and readded already, I believe a consensus should be come to before any further edits be done. -- Тимофей ЛееСуда. 20:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 12:25, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Way of St. James →
Camino de Santiago – by far most common name in English, article should conform to
WP:COMMONNAME
Keizers (
talk) 01:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Since when did 4/2 beoome consensus for a move? Arnoutf ( talk) 16:48, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
So on the English-language Wikipedia, we are now forced to use a foreign language name as a page title, even though we have an age-old English-language name for it! And worse, that foreign language name for it is only used along *part of* the route — admittedly a much-walked part, but try telling the French or Galicians that! Move it back, guys. It should be "St. James's Way" (with or without the ".") This is yet another sign that Wikipedia is no longer based on reason but on social conformity.... 04:55, 13 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.117.167 ( talk)
There used to be consensus we would limit the names in other languages to languages spoken in regions through which main routes passed. The main routes originate in France (via Frances) and a southern route in Portugal. In Spain the route crosses the Basque region and Castile before finishing in Galicia. Hence the consensus was to list five languages (France and Portuguese and 3 Spanish languages - Catalan only excluded because no main routes pass through the region).
This idea was overturned without discussion and an (in my view) arbitrary collection of translations was posted by User:Reinthal [ [4]](For some obscure reasons many many German editors over the time added the German name Jakobsweg again and again and again so the invisible note made specific mention of this language not because the note was biased against German over any other language, but because German language editors with a proven history of POV pushing necessitated special mention in this case).
As there are no good reasons why (current listing) Italian, German, Dutch, Polish and Hungarian are included but not Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Estonion, Lithuanion, Latvian, Russian, Czech, Slovakian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Greek, Serbian, Croatian, Slovakian, Albanian, (and others) we are now at some serious risk of making this an arbitrary list of translations, something that we should definitely not want. I suggest we go back to a version with only few languages, and German (nor Dutch) being among those. Arnoutf ( talk) 09:59, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Who's German? I have a good mind to report you both for racial profiling, Arnoutf and Keizers. You have both been doing enough damage on this page by letting it stagnate and treating it as your own personal fiefdom. But that seems to be your modus operandi. 16:49, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
AS we had in the past with literature, we now have a seriously bloated TV/film section. I propose to clean up soon, using the following criteria for materials that can stay.
If you disagree, can you please come up with another suggestion to keep this section under control. Arnoutf ( talk) 18:04, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Reason for removal: Neither the (anonymous) film maker, nor the actual movie have any indication of being notable
Reason for removal: Movie is not about the way but about tourists in 4 European cities - ie off topic
Reason for removal: The episode on its own is not notable. Nor is the director
Reason for removal: Neither the specific article, nor documentary are notable in their own right.
Reason for removal: No indication for notability on English Wikipedia of either Bertelsen, nor the specific series
Reason for removal: No indication for notability on English Wikipedia of either Smith, nor the actual documentary
Reason for removal: No indication for notability of the actual documentary nor the presenter Arnoutf ( talk) 08:40, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
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User:Jjhantsch recently changed the phrase "By the 1980s, only a few pilgrims per year arrived in Santiago." (a) to "By the 1980s, only a few thousand pilgrims per year arrived in Santiago, although in several years only a few hundred pilgrims received the official Compostella." (b). While neither statement was sourced, the first one (a) is not very specific and aligns with numbers from the bureau of pilgrims on awarding the Compostella (see later on in the article Camino_de_Santiago#As_tourism). The second claim (several thousands - (b)) is however backed up by no source. While I do tend to think these numbers may be likely, I would be against adding such a quantification without a source. I hope we can find one; but until that time it should not be added per WP:V. Arnoutf ( talk) 10:02, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Sunday July 25, 2021 has passed and one hopes pilgrimage numbers might be found to update this page. In addition, I believe that the next occurrence of a Sunday on July 25th will be 2026, please review edits to "Pilgrimage as tourism" for accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.212.150.173 ( talk) 23:35, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
For my better understanding of the reasoning/so I can better participate in edits in the future, could you explain why you reverted the edit to the Selected Literature section of the Camino de Santiago page? I'm still confused why authors who aren't significant enough to have their own pages are significant enough to be Selected Literature?
And I'm especially confused as to why an author adding a link to buy their book on Amazon is permissible? 24.148.60.37 ( talk) 04:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
I have added {{ Disputed map}} to the article as it incorrectly depicts Austria instead of Slovenia and Croatia on the right. If the map depicts the subject matter of this article fine, it may perhaps be cropped; otherwise, please replace it with another map. -- TadejM my talk 12:40, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Before and during the founding of the League of Nations the Way of St James (Camino de Santiago) served as a meeting place for "brothers and sisters for peace", since there were many guesthouses along the Way, and each guesthouse also served as a meeting place. Their writings are much read today, and their members would have included personalities such as Rene Cassin, Carl Jung, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Max Weber, Lujo Brentano, Hans Ehrenberg, Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy, Franz Rosenzweig, Martin Buber, Carlos Philipps, Sigmund Freud, Victor Mordechai Goldschmidt and many more. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 07:18, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
The documentation for this is only in the personal diaries of many visionaries in the Peace Movement, and in the novels (stories) written by Carlos Philipps (Zurich, Switzerland). Maybe also Franz Kafka. It is plausible that Rene Cassin bequeathed his "peace diaries" to the International Institute for Human Rights (Strasbourg). It is not evident if Max Weber did likewise in Heidelberg, or whether this was removed in the turmoil of the 1940's. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 21:36, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This should be researched in the archives of the International Peace Bureau (Geneva), International Committee of the Red Cross (Geneva), Inter-Parliamentary Union (Geneva), Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (Geneva), and International Institute of Human Rights (Strasbourg). Would that be good enough as sources? JohnEC Jr ( talk) 11:49, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
It would seem that the World Council of Churches (Geneva) is actively engaged in these matters since many decades or so. The books on these matters and conferences are internal to their organisation, that may suffice, is that so? Similarly with the Vatican. All their special books are not listed in the public domain. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 15:18, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
Would a reference to the libraries be suitable, e.g. the Vatican Library (Rome)? JohnEC Jr ( talk) 20:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The library at the University of Zurich is an open access library, for members of the University. The Vatican library in Rome is with restricted access, for members of the Vatican only. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 14:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
The most reliable sources would include the Jesuits, though their libraries are not publicly accessible. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 07:18, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
Our friends, ( International Council of Christians and Jews), have access to these libraries. Our communications with them are ongoing, JohnEC Jr ( talk) 09:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
May I add the following quotation, from the Book of Proverbs 1:20; "Out in the open wisdom calls aloud, she raises her voice in the public square". This book was compiled during the times of king Solomon, son of David. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 03:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Camino de santiago was copied or moved into Camino de Santiago with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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Hey all!
This is my first time using the Talk page, so go easy with me, and please help me learn the etiquette for this. I was doing some copy editing on the Introduction of the page and noticed a paragraph on the doctrinal evolution of the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Catholicism that seemed a bit out of place. I'm unsure the author of it. Firstly I'd like to ask, is this even relevant for this page? It seems to pertain more to the cathedral (which has its own page) than the Camino. Secondly, if it is relevant, could someone please elucidate on what this doctrinal evolution is?? The original author seems to hint at something about the symbolism of relics, tombs, etc. (?), but I don't feel confident in saying what exactly that is. Finally, if anyone has a source(s) for the pope quotes used, it would be much appreciated; the section is currently bereft of any citations. Shawrkat ( talk) 03:50, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Its total length is .... km.- Mazarin07 ( talk) 16:25, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Finisterre, from the Latin Finis Terrae alludes to the westernmost point of Europe and is in three specific places: Galicia, Cornwall and Brittany, three of the more properly Celtic mainland territories. Moreover, the parallelism between the Galician and Breton Finisterre is emphasized by authors like ALARCÓN HERRERA in his In the Shadow of the Templars 1988.
The pilgrimage and the cult of the sun path is identified with the prehistoric symbol of the solar boat crossing the ocean to the west. This symbolism of the death of the Sun Road beyond was transmuted in classical times by the image of Charon crossing the Styx, which like the Solar boat transports the Hereafter from the east bank of the dead in search of the Promised Land . Rites that have survived until today, on the way to the more Western to die and be reborn in the gnostic and mystical plane banks. In this sense we can highlight the words of TW ROLLESTON, in his work The Celts, notes in this way, at pg. 62: "I believe that the full form of the megalithic symbol is the boat with figures and with the solar symbol above. These assume that the interpretation is correct, figures should be taken as representations of the dead on their journey to the afterlife "; (in this sense we can see how in the megalithic monuments, navetas take the form of an inverted boat shaped like other megalithic monuments In this regard, we can mention, for example, three analogies.'s's own shuttles, the Irish dolmens and the muogh Nevet of Malekula:
_ On Navetas: They have the shape of a ship with the inverted keel; and are as numerous experts, the representation of the solar boat, inside which the funeral rites of passage took place hereafter. Furthermore. On the Irish dolmens, as burial chambers with ticket broker: They are structures formed by cairns or stone chips like the navetas resemble an inverted boat. Respect thereto, W.C. Borlase, in his Dolmens of Ireland, not only puts these megaliths in relation menorquinas navetas; but also with the Scandinavian burial mounds, the sepulchral entrerramientos in boats across the Baltic and other forms of burial developed in the Iron Age.
_ On Nevet muogh: We can say that they were discovered by AB DEACON malecula on island in the Pacific, describing his work Malekula: A vanisshged People [1,934]. His work would be continued by JOHN LAYARD, the Stone Men of Malekula work, [1.942]. In this book, described as the inhabitants of Malekula ceremonial dolmen erected with blocks of coral, whose aim was to introduce the initiate in his sacred chamber for a time to be reborn to a new life: Knowledge; [as pick and Professor W. H. Rivers, in previous trials]. Meanwhile, the already mentioned A.B. DEACON, in Gnostic initiation of this distinguished company up to 32 degrees of refinement to reach the "Absolute Knowledge". In each and every one of these phases, played a vital role coral dolmen called muogh Nevet, [literally "Stone of Life"], which took three years to build; as well as the burial inside the camera, the initiate, a solar period of 30 days; in what was known as na-vot, ["chamber or place of rebirth"]).
It shall also be observed through different traditions; the most important, is the path of the current Camino de Santiago, which in pre-Christian times already ran in order to perform the ritual of seeing the sun die on their way to the Hereafter.
Finisterre's also in Celtic villages yet to dig, it seems that even the church of Santiago was put in there to stop the Celtic paganism, paganism which can also be seen in the very cathedral of Santiago, before the cathedral there was something in that place that is oriented in the way that they did it the Druids at that time, plus the very bowels of the cathedral seem to have something in previous years it was believed he was a legend, despite the Catholic church denies all the data and not allows research
Can also highlight the current pilgrimage to San Andrés de Teixido; where according to tradition the pilgrimage is essential, since the Galician said he prays: "Vai or non foi morto live"; include the dates of the pilgrimages, where in addition to other dates as Pentecost have been fixed: from August 16 to September 9, (which corresponds to the date of the Celtic celebration of Lughnasadh), from September 9 to 29 the same month (coinciding with the Celtic festival of Alban Elued) and from 27 to 30 November (coinciding with the end of the feast of Samhuinn). In addition, and according to tradition the deceased not having gone to the shrine in life, is not accompanied by a family member at his death, a stranger in a reptilian form (note the Orphic connotation).
While it can also stand out among the rites of pilgrimage to San Andrés de Teixido tradition of amilladoiros, testimonial pebbles which leaves behind him. The Rite (which is repeated on the Padron pedrón stones substituting coin), is identical to that developed by Celtic peoples, it was the custom to throw chinarros at the crossroads to ward off evil spirits. This rite reflected in the average age, identifies with the fact that the spells and pacts made with the devil at the crossroads, (here in Tragedy Policiana, 1,547 AD, Sebastian Fernandez, referred to in his act XXII to this Indeed, when it says: "Alla yras with devil facer conjuxuros by encrucixadas"); Finally, still in force today is the rite of amilladoiro to achieve Cebreiro Cross on the pilgrimage route, or solar shed casters to healing springs to cure some diseases (almost everyone in the habit of throwing coins into the water is inveterate).
This coincides Celtic cairn: artificial mound of rocks or slabs used in burials from the Neolithic era and today form landmark or cairn, which in turn is identified with the Castilian term amillarar. Or in other peoples such as Hebrew, that at funerals or whenever visiting a grave is the habit of leaving a testimonial stone; rite which remains in force; (Notice how this tradition remained within Christianity in the habit of touching the rock of Golgotha that is in the church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, where there is also the practice of throwing coins). The same tradition of forming cairns at crossroads is also in obos Mongols, Tibetans and Kazakhs. Furthermore, the idea of placing a stone on the graves is not limited to such cases; so the Ankou, which as recorded with his car to die, throws a stone thereof; and last but not least, the tradition of placing slabs and headstones on graves throughout the western area. Also, stand here the tradition of the "omphalos" type, as religious centers and abode of the souls of the departed; in which there were always sacred rocks or stones; (which can be linked with the Orphic connotation, cited above, and exemplified in stony monuments such as the currently known serpe in pedra da Coruña). Finally in relation to the tradition of death and resurrection of the Sun, is remarkable among Christianized traditional rites Danza das Areas in Finisterre during Easter to celebrate the death and resurrection of Christ; as before the death and resurrection of the sun was celebrated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.165.51.89 ( talk) 22:16, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
This may be the English translation of the words 'Camino de Santiago', but it is not the name of the Camino de Santiago in English. No-one who does the Camino ever calls it that. Can we move this to 'Camino de Santiago' please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.79.129.66 ( talk) 18:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
I support a Camino de Santiago article as well as a way of St. James article, the Camino article representing the more secular interest in the Camino, and the St. James article representing the religious aspects. Any year's pilgrim statistics will show that about 50% of pilgrims getting the Compostella get it for religious reasons. They are well versed in the Catholic faith and the details in the current St. James articles. It appears to me that the religious faction controls the Camino de Santiago/St. James article at this time, and rigorously prunes out things that might be useful to the more secular pilgrim, such as route conditions, etc. In my experience in the United States, the Camino de Santiago is a much more widely known term for the route than is the Way of St. James. I suggest that the Camino de Santiago article be allowed to contain the more secular facts, and the Way of St. James article continue as it is at present. Since the religious/academic interests control this article at the moment, they will have to consent to this before it will happen. Just to be clear, I have web pages on the Camino de Santiago, and walking its routes in France, that I have been maintaining since 2003. They are excellent, useful links, more so than some of the official links that are allowed. I have added them, and they were deleted. Also my wife is a travel writer, with an award winning book on the Camino de Santiago, which I added, and it was deleted with some really inappropriate and inaccurate statements in the associated talk section. Backpack45scb ( talk) 20:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Santiago is the name of the place (destination). James is the name of the disciple of Jesus who came to Spain around 40CE. The invitations came for(from) the Jewish community in Santiago and their non-Jewish friends. They also served as sponsors for travel, stay and mission work. This occurred all over Europe, north Africa, central Asia, west Asia and south Asia. The people needed and wanted wisdom. The rulers of that period wanted to be .... JohnEC Jr ( talk) 01:08, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
Had a look at the links at the bottom. Removed a dead link. I'd suggest also removing http://www.caminosantiagodecompostela.com/ and http://www.santiago-compostela.net/ which both seem old and out of date.
And I'd suggest adding http://gospain.about.com/od/caminodesantiago/a/camino_santiago.htm The writer is a well known Spain travel writer (I heard him on the BBC a few days ago talking about Pamplona) and he did the Camino in 2009, so it's very up to date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.79.129.66 ( talk) 18:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
reference #8 does not exist- there is no article by that name in that issue of Science. Mymerrytale ( talk) 22:26, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an indiscrimate repository of hardly relevant information WP:INDISCRIMINATE frowns on Trivia WP:TRIVIA, demands reliable sources for anything contested WP:RS, should not pay undue attention to non-important facts WP:UNDUE.
The recently added, huge table with non-official routes and stopping places violates all above and is therefore making the article worse instead of better and it has to be removed unless each and every issue is satisfactorily solved BEFORE it is re-added.
Also, accusing a well established editor who removed some stuff violating all the above of vandalism; while doing so providing with a valid edit summary is at best WP:uncivil and bordering on a WP:personal attack. So no, I am not polite here. Arnoutf ( talk) 19:39, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm just back from walking the entire Camino Francés and not once did I hear an English speaker call it anything other than the "camino" or "camino de Santiago". It was certainly never called the "Way of St James" by English speakers. One non-English speaker asked a group of us one night what it was in English and we all agreed it is the Camino de Santiago. Even my guide, written in English by an English guy, was entitled the Camino de Santiago. This page should be changed to reflect this reality. 109.76.135.9 ( talk) 17:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
I reduced the ever expanding link collections. While there are 1,000s (if not more) websites, books and publications on the camino, some editors think their favorite should be here.
I removed obviously personal travellogues, commercial sites, and books where I could not see the notability of the book at all. I have as a rule kept books from 1995 in that are sufficiently notable to have an article on the book. Pre 1995 when the Camino was less popular I left books with a stated relation to the Camino in if at least hte author had an article.
Have I been too blunt? Please argue against me. These are the removed links:
From time to time editors add their local partition of the route that goes beyond the four French main starting places and the Iberian routes. All these early routes connect to the main routes in France (with the exception of Iberian routes).
So far, in this overview article we have not allowed routes beyond the main ones and Iberian routes. These are however summarised at
Way of St. James (route descriptions).
My question is now, should we start adding routes more far afield, or should we stick with the big 4 + iberia?
If we agree on the first option, it is in my view essential (because of neutral point of view and undue focus on certain bits of information) to provide a comprehensive overview of the routes far afield instead of focussing on whatever route the editor knows (recently it was a Polish route ending somewhere near the German border). My preference would be to leave the long routes to the specific
Way of St. James (route descriptions) and focus on the shorter routes here, but if there is a majority that sees otherwise, willing to reconsider.
Arnoutf (
talk) 17:30, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
This needs to be translated from French, and expanded to cover other countries (Poland, for example). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 18:35, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
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I see some problems with the following sentences from the scallop shell section: "Two versions of the most common myth about the origin of the symbol concern the death of Saint James, who was killed in Jerusalem for his convictions about his brother, John. James had spent some time preaching on the Iberian Peninsula."
1. It is kind of mixing myth / legend with Biblical evidence. I don't think any scholar doubts today that St. James was killed in Jerusalem, but several doubt that he ever preached / was in Spain.
2. "Saint James, who was killed in Jerusalem for his convictions about his brother, John." That is definitively wrong, St. James was decapitated, according to Acts 12, 1-3 because of being a Christian.
Thoughts? SybilleY ( talk) 10:33, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
As there has been some discussion about the External Links section as well as some reverting, I wanted to bring the discussion out to the open. In my opinion, there are two links (see below) that do not meet the requirements of WP:ELNO (a en.WP guideline). T
These two are both simply webpages with photos from pieces of the Way of St. James. Neither could count as a WP:RS. One of the two has been identified by the content editor as being his personal site. Also, as both are just for photos/music, neither really has any information that would be relevant to a reader. If the owners of said site wanted to have their photos seen by Wikipedia readers/editors, they should release said photos under a free license at WP:Commons. As these links have been removed and readded already, I believe a consensus should be come to before any further edits be done. -- Тимофей ЛееСуда. 20:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 12:25, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
Way of St. James →
Camino de Santiago – by far most common name in English, article should conform to
WP:COMMONNAME
Keizers (
talk) 01:38, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Since when did 4/2 beoome consensus for a move? Arnoutf ( talk) 16:48, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
So on the English-language Wikipedia, we are now forced to use a foreign language name as a page title, even though we have an age-old English-language name for it! And worse, that foreign language name for it is only used along *part of* the route — admittedly a much-walked part, but try telling the French or Galicians that! Move it back, guys. It should be "St. James's Way" (with or without the ".") This is yet another sign that Wikipedia is no longer based on reason but on social conformity.... 04:55, 13 December 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.117.167 ( talk)
There used to be consensus we would limit the names in other languages to languages spoken in regions through which main routes passed. The main routes originate in France (via Frances) and a southern route in Portugal. In Spain the route crosses the Basque region and Castile before finishing in Galicia. Hence the consensus was to list five languages (France and Portuguese and 3 Spanish languages - Catalan only excluded because no main routes pass through the region).
This idea was overturned without discussion and an (in my view) arbitrary collection of translations was posted by User:Reinthal [ [4]](For some obscure reasons many many German editors over the time added the German name Jakobsweg again and again and again so the invisible note made specific mention of this language not because the note was biased against German over any other language, but because German language editors with a proven history of POV pushing necessitated special mention in this case).
As there are no good reasons why (current listing) Italian, German, Dutch, Polish and Hungarian are included but not Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish, Estonion, Lithuanion, Latvian, Russian, Czech, Slovakian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Greek, Serbian, Croatian, Slovakian, Albanian, (and others) we are now at some serious risk of making this an arbitrary list of translations, something that we should definitely not want. I suggest we go back to a version with only few languages, and German (nor Dutch) being among those. Arnoutf ( talk) 09:59, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Who's German? I have a good mind to report you both for racial profiling, Arnoutf and Keizers. You have both been doing enough damage on this page by letting it stagnate and treating it as your own personal fiefdom. But that seems to be your modus operandi. 16:49, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
AS we had in the past with literature, we now have a seriously bloated TV/film section. I propose to clean up soon, using the following criteria for materials that can stay.
If you disagree, can you please come up with another suggestion to keep this section under control. Arnoutf ( talk) 18:04, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Reason for removal: Neither the (anonymous) film maker, nor the actual movie have any indication of being notable
Reason for removal: Movie is not about the way but about tourists in 4 European cities - ie off topic
Reason for removal: The episode on its own is not notable. Nor is the director
Reason for removal: Neither the specific article, nor documentary are notable in their own right.
Reason for removal: No indication for notability on English Wikipedia of either Bertelsen, nor the specific series
Reason for removal: No indication for notability on English Wikipedia of either Smith, nor the actual documentary
Reason for removal: No indication for notability of the actual documentary nor the presenter Arnoutf ( talk) 08:40, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
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User:Jjhantsch recently changed the phrase "By the 1980s, only a few pilgrims per year arrived in Santiago." (a) to "By the 1980s, only a few thousand pilgrims per year arrived in Santiago, although in several years only a few hundred pilgrims received the official Compostella." (b). While neither statement was sourced, the first one (a) is not very specific and aligns with numbers from the bureau of pilgrims on awarding the Compostella (see later on in the article Camino_de_Santiago#As_tourism). The second claim (several thousands - (b)) is however backed up by no source. While I do tend to think these numbers may be likely, I would be against adding such a quantification without a source. I hope we can find one; but until that time it should not be added per WP:V. Arnoutf ( talk) 10:02, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
Sunday July 25, 2021 has passed and one hopes pilgrimage numbers might be found to update this page. In addition, I believe that the next occurrence of a Sunday on July 25th will be 2026, please review edits to "Pilgrimage as tourism" for accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.212.150.173 ( talk) 23:35, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
For my better understanding of the reasoning/so I can better participate in edits in the future, could you explain why you reverted the edit to the Selected Literature section of the Camino de Santiago page? I'm still confused why authors who aren't significant enough to have their own pages are significant enough to be Selected Literature?
And I'm especially confused as to why an author adding a link to buy their book on Amazon is permissible? 24.148.60.37 ( talk) 04:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
I have added {{ Disputed map}} to the article as it incorrectly depicts Austria instead of Slovenia and Croatia on the right. If the map depicts the subject matter of this article fine, it may perhaps be cropped; otherwise, please replace it with another map. -- TadejM my talk 12:40, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Before and during the founding of the League of Nations the Way of St James (Camino de Santiago) served as a meeting place for "brothers and sisters for peace", since there were many guesthouses along the Way, and each guesthouse also served as a meeting place. Their writings are much read today, and their members would have included personalities such as Rene Cassin, Carl Jung, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Max Weber, Lujo Brentano, Hans Ehrenberg, Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy, Franz Rosenzweig, Martin Buber, Carlos Philipps, Sigmund Freud, Victor Mordechai Goldschmidt and many more. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 07:18, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
The documentation for this is only in the personal diaries of many visionaries in the Peace Movement, and in the novels (stories) written by Carlos Philipps (Zurich, Switzerland). Maybe also Franz Kafka. It is plausible that Rene Cassin bequeathed his "peace diaries" to the International Institute for Human Rights (Strasbourg). It is not evident if Max Weber did likewise in Heidelberg, or whether this was removed in the turmoil of the 1940's. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 21:36, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
This should be researched in the archives of the International Peace Bureau (Geneva), International Committee of the Red Cross (Geneva), Inter-Parliamentary Union (Geneva), Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (Geneva), and International Institute of Human Rights (Strasbourg). Would that be good enough as sources? JohnEC Jr ( talk) 11:49, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
It would seem that the World Council of Churches (Geneva) is actively engaged in these matters since many decades or so. The books on these matters and conferences are internal to their organisation, that may suffice, is that so? Similarly with the Vatican. All their special books are not listed in the public domain. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 15:18, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
Would a reference to the libraries be suitable, e.g. the Vatican Library (Rome)? JohnEC Jr ( talk) 20:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
The library at the University of Zurich is an open access library, for members of the University. The Vatican library in Rome is with restricted access, for members of the Vatican only. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 14:41, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
The most reliable sources would include the Jesuits, though their libraries are not publicly accessible. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 07:18, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
Our friends, ( International Council of Christians and Jews), have access to these libraries. Our communications with them are ongoing, JohnEC Jr ( talk) 09:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
May I add the following quotation, from the Book of Proverbs 1:20; "Out in the open wisdom calls aloud, she raises her voice in the public square". This book was compiled during the times of king Solomon, son of David. JohnEC Jr ( talk) 03:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)