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So I get here on random pages, only to find out that there's a really inaccurate, badly titles stub. Also, I'm looking at this, and thinking, somebody who doesn't seem to understand that France and Germany did not exist in the middle ages as we now know them has gone and created pages and stubs for people as Kings of France, when they had cousins who were also kings, not of the West Franks, but of the East Franks. I beg you all -- unless you know what you are talking about (and not copying from a book which may be oversimplifying or telling a story from a particular POV) STOP IT!!! JHK
I think this person has a real problem! ... Susan K.
From what I can make out in trying to sort out the HRE lists Arnulf's rule was over before the end of 896 when Lambert took back the title. What's the accepted view of the situation? Eclecticology 23:50 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)
Changed Normans -- that is, the particular group od Northmen who settled in Normandy and eventually ruled England and Sicily, to Northmen. There is a difference. JHK
I've changed back later term Carinthians to Karantanians since Carinthia at that time was named so. In fact Arnulf should be properly named Arnulf of Karantania, but I guess he was later named with the name of the province afterwards named Carinthia. Karantania was a state with a much larger territory settled with the ancestors of Slovenes and Carinthia was a province within this state. Jules can you please say what is wrong with abandoned sentences:
This in a sense shows how Arnulf was different from other absolute rulers of that time, most probably also because of his Karantanian origins, since this Slovene state had a strong electing system for its dukes. Best regards. -- XJamRastafire 09:28 30 May 2003 (UTC)
--- New edits -- unlinked Fulda Annals, but think if we do, we should link to Annales Fuldensis, since if people want to search for this source, they will only get the Reuter translation, while if in Latin, the can get multiple versions, perhaps even other translations. Also, is this the Count Ernst of the Eastern March? I will check AF again, but I thought he was a Popponid/RUpertiner, not from Carinthia?? JHK
That's neat about matrilineal descent! Do you know if inheritance also passed that way? Also, I'd be really interested in the sources -- are they secondary? primary? WHat language? (this is serious -- it's stuff that I might be able to use in my very delayed research!) Thanks! JHK
My understanding is that Karantania is the precise word (in English) for the ancient Slovenian nation of which you speak about. Carinthia, in English, refers to today's Austrian province of Kärnten. While highly likely (obvious?) that the name Karnten derives from Karantania, the terms are not equivalent. Karantania strictly refers to the ancient Slovenian state.
-- BT (a native English speaker of Slovenian descent and somebody with an immense amount of experience scavenging for documented info in English (and French) on Slovenia and Slovenians)
This is pure fantasy!
Even if it were original research, WP would not be the place for it.
Not one of the various theories concerning Arnulf's mother
[1] even remotely ventilates the idea that she might NOT have been of Bavarian descent.
Arnulf's mother had a Teutonic name - Liutswind or Litwinde, her father is said to have been one Bavarian count Ernst, perhaps the burgrave of Passau, as sources say. Where do the Slav Carantanians come in?
It hasn't even been proven that Arnulf's reported birthplace, the Mosaburch, was the one in Carinthia. - And the name Blatnograd for this Austrian
Moosburg is a retrospective invention! There were several others
Moosburg castles, e.g. one
Mosapurc or Mosabyrga in Bavaria and one in today's Hungary ( Mosapurc or Blatnohrad, modern name:
Zalavár, see
Kocel), which lateron became part of Arnulf's realm. Besides, only a few miles from the Carinthian
Moosburg was the Carlovingian
Kaiserpfalz, the imperial palace, of Karnburg (Slovene: Krnski grad). Does it really seem likely that father
Carloman afforded two expensive-to-keep fortresses so close to each other?
I have modified the incriminated statements, but I suggest the speculative passages about his mother's origin and about his youth be removed altogether.-- Marschner ( talk) 16:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The article says, quote: "Arnulf of Carinthia (850 – 8 December 899) was the Carolingian King of East Francia[2] from 887, the disputed King of Italy from 894 and the disputed Holy Roman Emperor from 22 February 896 until his death at Regensburg, Bavaria."
This is literally impossible. Because the Empire wasn't known as 'holy' until Frederick II appended the word 'holy' to the title during his reign (1220-1250, aka almost 400 years after Arnulf). Leecharleswalker ( talk) 14:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
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So I get here on random pages, only to find out that there's a really inaccurate, badly titles stub. Also, I'm looking at this, and thinking, somebody who doesn't seem to understand that France and Germany did not exist in the middle ages as we now know them has gone and created pages and stubs for people as Kings of France, when they had cousins who were also kings, not of the West Franks, but of the East Franks. I beg you all -- unless you know what you are talking about (and not copying from a book which may be oversimplifying or telling a story from a particular POV) STOP IT!!! JHK
I think this person has a real problem! ... Susan K.
From what I can make out in trying to sort out the HRE lists Arnulf's rule was over before the end of 896 when Lambert took back the title. What's the accepted view of the situation? Eclecticology 23:50 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)
Changed Normans -- that is, the particular group od Northmen who settled in Normandy and eventually ruled England and Sicily, to Northmen. There is a difference. JHK
I've changed back later term Carinthians to Karantanians since Carinthia at that time was named so. In fact Arnulf should be properly named Arnulf of Karantania, but I guess he was later named with the name of the province afterwards named Carinthia. Karantania was a state with a much larger territory settled with the ancestors of Slovenes and Carinthia was a province within this state. Jules can you please say what is wrong with abandoned sentences:
This in a sense shows how Arnulf was different from other absolute rulers of that time, most probably also because of his Karantanian origins, since this Slovene state had a strong electing system for its dukes. Best regards. -- XJamRastafire 09:28 30 May 2003 (UTC)
--- New edits -- unlinked Fulda Annals, but think if we do, we should link to Annales Fuldensis, since if people want to search for this source, they will only get the Reuter translation, while if in Latin, the can get multiple versions, perhaps even other translations. Also, is this the Count Ernst of the Eastern March? I will check AF again, but I thought he was a Popponid/RUpertiner, not from Carinthia?? JHK
That's neat about matrilineal descent! Do you know if inheritance also passed that way? Also, I'd be really interested in the sources -- are they secondary? primary? WHat language? (this is serious -- it's stuff that I might be able to use in my very delayed research!) Thanks! JHK
My understanding is that Karantania is the precise word (in English) for the ancient Slovenian nation of which you speak about. Carinthia, in English, refers to today's Austrian province of Kärnten. While highly likely (obvious?) that the name Karnten derives from Karantania, the terms are not equivalent. Karantania strictly refers to the ancient Slovenian state.
-- BT (a native English speaker of Slovenian descent and somebody with an immense amount of experience scavenging for documented info in English (and French) on Slovenia and Slovenians)
This is pure fantasy!
Even if it were original research, WP would not be the place for it.
Not one of the various theories concerning Arnulf's mother
[1] even remotely ventilates the idea that she might NOT have been of Bavarian descent.
Arnulf's mother had a Teutonic name - Liutswind or Litwinde, her father is said to have been one Bavarian count Ernst, perhaps the burgrave of Passau, as sources say. Where do the Slav Carantanians come in?
It hasn't even been proven that Arnulf's reported birthplace, the Mosaburch, was the one in Carinthia. - And the name Blatnograd for this Austrian
Moosburg is a retrospective invention! There were several others
Moosburg castles, e.g. one
Mosapurc or Mosabyrga in Bavaria and one in today's Hungary ( Mosapurc or Blatnohrad, modern name:
Zalavár, see
Kocel), which lateron became part of Arnulf's realm. Besides, only a few miles from the Carinthian
Moosburg was the Carlovingian
Kaiserpfalz, the imperial palace, of Karnburg (Slovene: Krnski grad). Does it really seem likely that father
Carloman afforded two expensive-to-keep fortresses so close to each other?
I have modified the incriminated statements, but I suggest the speculative passages about his mother's origin and about his youth be removed altogether.-- Marschner ( talk) 16:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The article says, quote: "Arnulf of Carinthia (850 – 8 December 899) was the Carolingian King of East Francia[2] from 887, the disputed King of Italy from 894 and the disputed Holy Roman Emperor from 22 February 896 until his death at Regensburg, Bavaria."
This is literally impossible. Because the Empire wasn't known as 'holy' until Frederick II appended the word 'holy' to the title during his reign (1220-1250, aka almost 400 years after Arnulf). Leecharleswalker ( talk) 14:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Arnulf of Carinthia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:24, 18 October 2016 (UTC)