This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
@ Archives908: I’m gonna ping you because I saw in the archives that you created the current consensus. That conversation was very messy and was full of personal opinions and original research and not an objective analysis of sources. It seems that the conversation was cut short without a real consensus to save time and omits important information. The fact is that Armenia is occasionally considered part of the middle east. The other conversation was mistaken into thinking that the terms Middle East and Europe are mutually exclusive which is not the case at all. As the CIA World Factbook aptly puts it, Armenia can be considered to be geopolitically European, Middle Eastern, or both. Many reliable sources/definitions place Armenia in the middle east, I see no valid argument to omit the fact that Armenia is occasionally considered to be part of the middle east. “Is Armenia in the Middle East?” is one of the top google questions about Armenia and this article right now is taking a position that an Encyclopedia shouldn’t be taking, Encyclopedias present all major viewpoints, it’s not our job as editors to let our own personal beliefs decide which viewpoint gets included if there is significant scholarship supporting multiple viewpoints. This doesn’t have to be a drawn out discussion, my consensus is to mention that Armenia can be considered European, Middle Eastern or Both while also leaving the part that Armenia generally aligns more with Europe.
This is my proposed consensus:
Occasionally, Armenia is considered part of the Middle East due to historical and cultural ties to the region. Geopolitically, Armenia can be considered European, Middle Eastern, or both. Since Armenia aligns itself in many respects geopolitically with Europe, the country is a member of numerous European organizations…
With this note (Note: The Middle East has no set boundaries and is defined by multiple definitions. The South Caucasus, where Armenia is located, is occasionally considered to be the northern extent or an extension of the Middle East due to its close cultural and historical ties to the region. [1] The CIA World Factbook as well as multiple scholarly publications place the Republic of Armenia in the Middle East. [2] [3] [4] Other definitions exclude Armenia or nclude it rather in the Greater Middle East due to its geopolitical alignment. [5]}}) I believe this is more than fair, not purposefully omitting viewpoints that have significant scholarship behind them for personal political reasons. I see absolutely no reason that some mention of this classification shouldn’t be included in this article, it’s only serves to confuse readers more and takes a stance on a debated issue which is not what Wikipedia is for. TagaworShah ( talk) 02:13, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
@ Archives908: I see that you do not understand what the term geopolitics or Middle East actually mean. Geopolitics is a discipline of Geography, it is not just foreign policy but the effects of Earth's geography (human and physical) on politics and international relations. Human geography includes things such as historical and cultural ties as well as economy and foreign policy and physical geography is stuff like Armenia being in western Asia. The Middle East is a transcontinental GEOPOLITICAL term, it is not a physical geographical term such as Western Asia therefore your argument shows a misunderstanding. If Armenia is ever grouped in with the Middle East it is due to geopolitical reasons because the Middle East itself is a geopolitical term. Also, it is entirely possible to be Geopolitically European and Middle Eastern, Cyprus and Turkey are prime examples so any arguments about Armenia and Europe are irrelevant because one does not negate the other and nobody is arguing for removal of Europe from the lede. I suggest looking into what geopolitics actually means because this confusion is a rather big one and needs to be resolved before we can continue to reach consensus, I never said I wasn’t talking about Geography, I very much am, that’s why I titled this discussion that, Geopolitics is intrinsically linked with Geography and you cannot talk about one without mentioning the other since one is a discipline of the other. The reason Armenia is often grouped with the Middle East is because of its Human and Physical geography and it’s implications. Armenia has undeniable historical and cultural ties to the Middle East and its in Western Asia, whether Armenia’s current administration likes it or not, they are linked to the Middle East (literally) and have to establish geopolitical ties with their neighbors. This is why Armenia is grouped with the Middle East in many reliable sources such as GeoArabia, Middle East Review of International Affairs, Cambridge University Press [13], UCLA [14] and most importantly the Central Intelligence Agency; which is probably one of the best sources for Geopolitics since that is their specialty. As well as all the other sources I provided in my first comment. these are more than enough proof that this is a significant enough grouping to include in the lede. And Geopolitics includes all relations not only good, so while Armenia has strong geopolitical ties to Iran, it has very Negative ties with Turkey, but being it’s neighbor, they are involved in various geopolitical issues that factor into the consideration of Armenia as being apart of the Middle East. [15] But again you don’t have to take my word for it, the sources say what they say, and I strongly believe in listening to the sources especially specialized ones like the CIA who know this topic way better than we do. The argument that since Armenia is already part of West Asia, that covers its geopolitical ties with the Middle East is absurd, western Asia is a physical geographical term and is not mutually exclusive with the Middle East, and the Middle East is a geopolitical term. Also the assertion that Armenia is somehow a “cradle of European culture” is absolutely absurd and a WP:OR connection using a primary source, Armen Sarkissian, who is pushing a WP:FRINGE view, I have never seen a single peer reviewed journal from a reputable academic press push that notion, certainly Armenia has influences from places that have actually been labeled Cradles of European culture by reliable sources such as Greece, however, it also has deep cultural ties with Iran and the rest of the Middle East, that’s a well known fact and I’m not gonna argue that any further because it’s irrelevant to this conversation. Middle East is a TRANSCONTINENTAL region, it includes parts of Europe, West Asia, and North Africa. Your proposal is nowhere near fair and it is plain wrong as the Middle East is a geopolitical term, my proposal of adding a mention to the occasional inclusion of Armenia in the Middle East due to reasons stated above and in previous comments, you completely ignored the sources I provided in my other comment about Armenia strengthening geopolitical ties with the Middle East, in addition to what is already there to clear up one of the most notable questions about Armenia and improve the article. TagaworShah ( talk) 19:17, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
References
cia-fact
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The South Caucasus region--consisting of Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia--can be said to be the new, northern extension of the Middle East.
…defines the Middle East as comprising Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Georgia, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Syria, and Turkey.
What exactly is a "freedom index" and how can "it be claimed" that it improved after the death of Joseph Stalin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.102.105.155 ( talk) 20:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
The Kingdom of Armenia (antiquity) is missing on the info box in the establishment section 331 BC— Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.51.127 ( talk) 14:13, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Not useful, repetitive, incoherent... — Paleo Neonate – 04:08, 9 January 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Here is information by European Union Official Website regardless of Eastern European countries that I think it should be edited for "article of Armenia" where is mentioned as Asian country. From other side if Armenia were Asian country more % of the population must have been Asians but Armenians are not Asians. This information can be useful for edit for other countries below. Eastern Europe "EU relations with Region" Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU Eastern Partnership The Eastern Partnership (EaP) is a joint initiative involving the EU, its Member States and six Eastern European Partner countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, the Republic of Moldova and Ukraine - here is saying clearly ...six Eastern European countries nothing about Asia EU official website for Eastern Europe https://eeas.europa.eu/regions/eastern-europe/341/eastern-europe_en
Eastern Europe Neighbourhood East (Region 2) Armenia; Azerbaijan; Belarus; Georgia; Moldova; Territory of Ukraine as recognised by international law https://erasmus-plus.ec.europa.eu/programme-guide/part-a/eligible-countries — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catperson1 ( talk • contribs) 17:29, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I don't agree with your statement rejecting denying European Union statement while it says clearly the continent and countries. It doesn't matter if that information that allegedly Armenia is Western Asia stay from long time. Not everything is truth including geography. There are things which is not accurate in this worlds. However, I investigated also information by European Council where Caucasus countries are in there as Member States. Armenia Georgia Azerbaijan...are in European Council and I think none of Asian countries can be in European Council besides its continent. It's like to say Armenia United States of America. It's not logical. Here is about European Council, section "About" History Founded in 1949, the Council of Europe is one of the oldest and the biggest European organisation, which unifies 47 member states and promotes the main principles of the Human Rights. During its 50 years' activity the organisation has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the whole CONTINENT ●Pay attention it says the organisation has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the whole CONTINENT and so logically Caucasus countries belong to Europe Continent cause we are in European Council Besides that Armenia couldn't be Asian country I mention in above that. I don't understand why you insist yours. If Armenia is Asian country there must be Asians. Armenians are not Asians. 98% of nation is Armenians. Armenians form a distinctive cluster bounded by Europeans, Near Easterners, and the Caucasus populations. More specifically, Armenians are close to (1) Spaniards, Italians, and Romanians from Europe; (2) Lebanese, Jews, Druze, and Cypriots from the Near East; and (3) Georgians and Abkhazians from the Caucasus - according to European Journal Of Human Genetics European Journal Of Human Genetics https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015206 Every country has it's own nation. It can't be for example in Asia like Kazakhstan 50% more Swedish or French or Spanish. or contrary. Hope.it helps Catperson1 ( talk) 10:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
European Council Website https://www.coe.int/en/web/yerevan/the-coe/about-coe And as I explained above Armenia can't be Asian country for that reason above as I explained. It's mistake disinformation that Armenia is Western Asia. Regardless of USA it's North America according to their official website as I am aware. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catperson1 ( talk • contribs) 11:30, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
I think you don't get it what I say and what it says by European Council. There is not saying ...the organisation has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the whole CONTINENT and geopolitically continent. You don't get it what it says. I am not talking about just organization and the organization is about Europe continent. If China being in Europe Council do you think it would be called Europe? European county? It's not logic. And if Armenia or Caucasus countries are not in Europe continent why we would be in European Council then? It's not saying in EU official website about geopolitically things. It says ...has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the WHOLE CONTINENT where you read geopolitically things ? Enter and read at least. So EU and Council is nothing but you is something with your knowledge which is poor?. Not accurate. Wikipedia is not always accurate by the way. Catperson1 ( talk) 14:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC) I would like to mention that even some people are saying confirming that for example from Greece. He said being tourist I Armenia that Armenia And Greece are Estern European countries by continent despite that in Wikipedia says different and one Dubai man called me Eastern European and do you think they never searched in Google about Armenia so it means we know better and certain informations Catperson1 ( talk) 14:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC) And you don't think logically either. I have explained Armenia can't be Asian country cause Armenians are not Asians and how it's possible to live non Asian nation (Armenians 98%) in an Asian country? Or in other countries? Or Like French be in China 90%. It's not logically Catperson1 ( talk) 14:45, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Here is also Wikipedia page where is says correctly but it needs to be fixed in general Armenia page Eastern Europe is formed by countries with dominant Orthodox churches, like Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Georgia, Greece, Moldova, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Romania, Russia, Serbia, and Ukraine, for instance.[17][18] The Eastern Orthodox Church has played a prominent role in the history and culture of Eastern and Southeastern Europe.[19] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe Catperson1 ( talk) 14:58, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Also some information by EuroVoc. EuroVoc is a multilingual thesaurus maintained by the Publications Office of the European Union. where Caucasus countries are in the list of Europe Continent. Here is not saying geopolitically The geographical sub-regions of Europe as defined by EuroVoc:[1] Central and Eastern Europe Edit Albania Armenia Azerbaijan Belarus Bosnia and Herzegovina Bulgaria Czech Republic Croatia Georgia Hungary Moldova Montenegro North Macedonia Poland Romania Russia Serbia Slovakia Slovenia Ukraine
Here is EU Statement: (Eastern Europe) "EU relations with Region" Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU Eastern Partnership The Eastern Partnership (EaP) is a joint initiative involving the EU, its Member States and six Eastern European Partner countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, the Republic of Moldova and Ukraine - here is saying clearly ...six Eastern European countries nothing about Asia EU official website for Eastern Europe https://eeas.europa.eu/regions/eastern-europe/341/eastern-europe_en
https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/914 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catperson1 ( talk • contribs) 15:30, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
You are based on Wikipedia which is not always true. Asians are fanatic of Wikipedia but even I posted Eatearn European page by Wikipedia. I don't care your not logical explanation. It's about education. You should have been prove by European Union first that those Caucasus countries are not in European continent ok? In European Council page isn't saying that the European organisation deepened its field to Europe and geopolitical European continent. You are just envying. Don't be it's not my fault that I am European country and you Asia Catperson1 ( talk) 15:53, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Learn carefully and then say if there is saying about geopolitically countries ok!!! You don't have good logic don't urge with me https://www.coe.int/en/web/yerevan/the-coe/about-coe Catperson1 ( talk) 15:56, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Informations also that in LDS church countries page Armenia is in Europe page and in Swedish Cosmetic company also. I don't think they would think geopolitically. They could just put Armenia in Asia list. It needs to be fixed in Wikipedia https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics https://oriflame.com/ Catperson1 ( talk) 16:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC) The correction it's about also all Caucasus countries not only for Armenia Catperson1 ( talk) 16:21, 6 January 2022 (UTC) As I mentioned above anyway from Wikipedia regardless EuroVoc also, where it says geographically not geopolitically like this way "The geographical sub-regions of Europe as defined by EuroVoc:[1] Central and Eastern Europe then countries included Caucasus countries... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroVoc I share too official website of EUROPEAN UNION where is EuroVoc(EuroVoc is a multilingual thesaurus maintained by the Publications Office of the European Union) Caucasus Countries https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/7208 Central and Eastern Europe https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/914 There is nothing about geopolitically European countries Catperson1 ( talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC) I got paper statement It's called this ACTION FICHE FOR 2007 ENPI-EAST ANNUAL ACTION PROGRAMME (It's with PDF so I couldn't share here) you can search and read For the three Southern Caucasus countries. Here it says about Border management system with EU. Because EU is different than general "Europe" Caucasus countries located on the traditional 'Silk Road' transit route, border management has always been a key issue, with the goal of having a secure system where criminal flows are efficiently prevented whereas legitimate transit flows are facilitated. With the region now bordering the EU... Catperson1 ( talk) 23:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC) |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Elenazadoyan.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:43, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
We should try and follow other countries articles and not add random galleries. That is follow WP:Gallery and FA level articles with normal-sized images. Not seeing why we would need a few galleries causing WP:UNDUE in a few sections. We should also fix the text sandwich problem as per WP:SANDWICH. We should also remove the official Government website as this is not a government of article as per most other country articles. Needless to say mass revert was detrimental to the article. Was going to start adding sources....but wondering if this receent chnage is really a point of contention. Moxy- 16:00, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I disagree that the EL to the government's website is irrelevant to the infobox. Liberia's article, for instance, has one, too.
As for Moxy's concerns, are there any specific images that you think should be removed, and do you have a proposal for correcting the issue where too many images on one side of the page can spill into sections other than the one they relate to? As seen on my desktop, for instance, the Geography section has the two climate-related figures pushed out of the subsections they relate to, with the CO2 emissions graph overhanging into the Government and politics section. But for now, I'll focus on the Culture section, since this is the one that is most disputed. Here' my thoughts, broken down in the order they appear in the wikicode:
– LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 09:27, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
I just replaced the image of the sports complex with the one I listed; any other comments about the alphabet image? – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 14:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Which images should be included in the #History section? (There are no non-free files in this article.) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 20:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
15 images, in the order they appear in the wikicode
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No images References
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"By 1920, the state was incorporated into the Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic"
The article on that Republic says that it wasn't established until 1922. Which is correct? Harfarhs ( talk) 22:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Louis Aragon removed all the changes I made completely unjustifiably. [
seeCite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).
Louis Aragon: "rv sock of LTA Araxes theThief"
Sorry, it's been months since the "Araxes TheThief" account was shut down and I'm still on trial for it. It's clear that I'm no longer responsible for this, I haven't made a single change to the English Wikipedia in months. Thank you.
Araxishomegas (
talk) 00:15, 5 August 2022 (UTC)<---
CU blocked
sock of
User:Araxes TheThief
I removed some material from the end of the last paragraph of the lead and User:Archives908 restored it with the edit summary "confused how this is not lead worthy?" The paragraph is about Armenia's economy and membership in international associations. The three sentences I removed were:
Armenia supports the de facto independent Artsakh, which was proclaimed in 1991. Armenia also recognises the Armenian Apostolic Church, the world's oldest national church, as the country's primary religious establishment. The unique Armenian alphabet was created by Mesrop Mashtots in 405 AD.
These are three random facts that are off-topic for the paragraph, and none of them are defining facts about Armenia such as it makes sense to have in the lead. Regarding Artsakh, I would similarly not expect to find the fact that a country recognizes Taiwan or Somaliland to be mentioned in the lead of the article on that country. I also don't see the mention of the recognition of the church as lead-worthy. The fact about the alphabet is rather one step removed from being about the country, being, rather, a random fact about the national language. It's like discussing the origin of the Greek alphabet in the lead of the Greece article. Largoplazo ( talk) 21:22, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I would like the protection template to be changed to an icon. 64.114.239.31 ( talk) 19:08, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
I am just observing the current minor edit war. Armenia is without doubt geographically in Asia but is that too narrow a view? Iceland is geographically in North America but is treated as being in Europe. I don't know enough about its history to comment in any depth but Armenia obviously has a Christian heritage with the country divided in the past between Christian and non-Christian rule. With there being a fairly loose treatment of Europe=Christianity and Asia=Islam it is easy to see how Armenia could have been regarded as an outpost of Europe within Asia. As a comparison, it is not unknown, certainly pre- c.1920, for East Thrace (Turkey/Islam) to be thought of as a piece of Asia within Europe. This type of thinking is not fashionable now but it was in the past and I do wonder if that is the root of treating Armenia as being in Europe? Ultimately, what do sources say? Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 19:58, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Archives908, I removed uncited content. I thought this would be self-explanatory, as it had a citation request. Why have you restored this? Stara Marusya ( talk) 19:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Why does Archives908 say there's a consensus to retain unsourced text in the lead? Stara Marusya ( talk) 11:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the article, it says that Armenia is in West Asia, while it's at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia. Its neighbors Azerbaijan and Georgia are declared partially Eastern European in Wikipedia, while all three of these countries are located at the intersection of Eastern Europe. The sources to prove that Armenia is West Asian [19] are outdated and Georgia and Azerbaijan are declared as West Asian/Middle Eastern at all of those sources as well. So according to that outdated sources, Georgia and Azerbaijan should've been in West Asia/Middle East as well. I offer to change the line "Armenia is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of Western Asia." to "Armenia is a landlocked country at the intersection of Eastern Europe and Western Asia." Here are some sources I found declaring Armenia as Eastern European/at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia.
World Atlas puts Armenia at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia [20]. European Union(EEAS) says Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU [21]. BBC puts Armenia in Europe [22](check the navigation bar). Wikipedia puts Armenia in Eastern Europe in article "Eastern Europe" [23] McGill says Culturally, historically, and politically, Armenia is considered to be part of Europe. However, its location in the southern Caucasus means that it can also be considered to be at the arbitrary border between Europe and Asia [24] Albert11000 ( talk) 11:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template.
M.Bitton (
talk) 13:54, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the article, it says that Armenia is in West Asia, while it's at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia. Its neighbors Azerbaijan and Georgia are declared partially Eastern European in Wikipedia, while all three of these countries are located at the intersection of Eastern Europe. The sources to prove that Armenia is West Asian [25] are outdated and Georgia and Azerbaijan are declared as West Asian/Middle Eastern at all of those sources as well. So according to that outdated sources, Georgia and Azerbaijan should've been in West Asia/Middle East as well. I offer to change the line "Armenia is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of Western Asia." to "Armenia is a landlocked country at the intersection of Eastern Europe and Western Asia." Here are some sources I found declaring Armenia as Eastern European/at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia.
World Atlas puts Armenia at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia [26]. European Union(EEAS) says Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU [27]. BBC puts Armenia in Europe [28](check the navigation bar). Wikipedia puts Armenia in Eastern Europe in article "Eastern Europe" [29] McGill says Culturally, historically, and politically, Armenia is considered to be part of Europe. However, its location in the southern Caucasus means that it can also be considered to be at the arbitrary border between Europe and Asia [30] Albert11000 ( talk) 11:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
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M.Bitton (
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I marked the article In Use hoping for some time to rework the foreign relations section and trim the lede. The lede was entirely too long and needed trimmed. The info on all the foriegn bodies it belongs to can be incorporated into the appropriate section and this can be ce'd. If after I'm done (I'll removed the tag) it can be rv if necessary, hopefully though it will be seen as a positive change and any issues can be worked out from that point. // Timothy :: talk 17:22, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
The country is transcontinental and spans both Europe and Asia. It is incorrect to state that the country is solely in West Asia. This needs to be amended or some clarity needs to be added. It is simply not enough to state it has been discussed already, or cite sources. There are reliable sources that state Armenia is a European country, as well as an Asian country. The Armenian people have cultural ties to both continents. This needs to be referred to a competent administrator. — Preceding signed comment added by Mir 5.61.122.218 ( talk) 15:56, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
I am confused about the lead suggesting Armenia is in Western Asia, rather than in Eastern Europe and Western Asia. I don’t know when this update to this article happened. 130.88.226.20 ( talk) 14:48, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
130.88.226.20 ( talk) 17:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have copy edited the lede and the section on foriegn relations. It was wholesale rv'd. (See section above). See copy edited version Question: IIs this the right version?
here, status quo version
here
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The geographical location of Armenia is not correctly stated. The Lachin corridor citation [15] is not a credible source to suggest that the “Lachin corridor being under Russian peace keeping force” is the geographical border of Armenia. Armenia has its southern border with Iran not Nakhchivan. Nakhchivan is southwest and it being an exclave of Azerbaijan has nothing to do the geographical location of Armenia.
Please change: “It is part of the Caucasus region and is bordered by Turkey to the west, Georgia to the north, the Lachin corridor (under a Russian peacekeeping force) and Azerbaijan to the east, and Iran and the Azerbaijani exclave of Nakhchivan to the south.”
to
“It is part of the Caucasus region and is bordered by Georgia to the north, Azerbaijan to the east, Iran to the south and Nakhchivan and Turkey to the west.”
Sources: Encyclopedia Britannica https://www.britannica.com/place/Armenia Yotanasun ( talk) 10:55, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template. According to the
2020 Nagorno-Karabakh ceasefire agreement article, and its map, Armenia does not share an eastern border with Azerbaijan, only a northern one. Sole-sourcing your edit to Britannica seems ill-advised in this case. I think your request would be better discussed by an editor with deep experience in the region, and that appears to be @
Archives908. If they don't respond, check the edit history of the page (and related articles) and reach out to other editors active in those articles. Thanks!
Xan747 (
talk) 16:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)According to multiple sources, Armenia is considered a European country in Western Asia. In the article now we have: "is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of West Asia, with geopolitical ties to Europe.", but in reality it is more like "Armenia is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of West Asia. It is geographically in Western Asia, but culturally and geopolitically European". Some sources proving my point is already in the article( https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/armenia, "Armenia Country Overview | World Health Organization", https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/armenia.htm),
but I found some more sources: https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/a/Armenia.htm#:~:text=Culturally%2C%20historically%2C%20and%20politically%2C,other%20words%2C%20a%20transcontinental%20nation.
https://mycountryeurope.com/culture/other-side-europe-armenia/ Albert11000 ( talk) 11:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Archives908 You have it backwards in your edit summary at [31]. In an earlier discussion now at /Archive 9, two people challenged the inclusion of those sentences in the lead. The burden is therefore on you to persuade others that there's sufficient rationale for inclusion.
Three sentences about completely different topics from each other shouldn't be thrown together at the end of the lead, particularly in a paragraph that is otherwise about another topic altogether, which is at best poor writing, and especially when two of them are very subsidiary topics. (Possibly, if better presented, information about the official religion would be suitable.)
Most glaringly, the identity of the person who created the alphabet used to write the language spoken by most people in Armenia is at four levels of remove from the topic of Armenia (people of > language those people speak > alphabet used to write that language > creator of that alphabet). It's like mentioning in the lead of Italy that the Italian/Latin alphabet was derived from the Greek alphabet. It doesn't remotely belong.
You need to provide rationale for inclusion that overcomes this plenty sufficient rationale for removal. Largoplazo ( talk) 14:20, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Archives908: Don't know why ping didn't appear to be working. The little notification icon wasn't appearing for me but now I see that you were pinged three times. Apologies for pestering you, it was unintentional. Largoplazo ( talk) 14:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
A third person [32] has demonstrated agreement regarding the sentence about the alphabet, and has moved the sentence about the religion to an appropriate place. Largoplazo ( talk) 15:12, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
2607:FB91:7993:DC0:AC39:9A57:4FDC:4FC3 ( talk) 14:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
“Armenia supports the de facto independent Republic of Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh), which was proclaimed in 1991 on territory internationally recognized as part of Azerbaijan.” This statement from the lede appears out-of-date & misleading. That’s in view of ongoing reintegration of the region into Azerbaijan; unopposed by Armenia. Frenchmalawi ( talk) 00:40, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
@ Archives908: I’m gonna ping you because I saw in the archives that you created the current consensus. That conversation was very messy and was full of personal opinions and original research and not an objective analysis of sources. It seems that the conversation was cut short without a real consensus to save time and omits important information. The fact is that Armenia is occasionally considered part of the middle east. The other conversation was mistaken into thinking that the terms Middle East and Europe are mutually exclusive which is not the case at all. As the CIA World Factbook aptly puts it, Armenia can be considered to be geopolitically European, Middle Eastern, or both. Many reliable sources/definitions place Armenia in the middle east, I see no valid argument to omit the fact that Armenia is occasionally considered to be part of the middle east. “Is Armenia in the Middle East?” is one of the top google questions about Armenia and this article right now is taking a position that an Encyclopedia shouldn’t be taking, Encyclopedias present all major viewpoints, it’s not our job as editors to let our own personal beliefs decide which viewpoint gets included if there is significant scholarship supporting multiple viewpoints. This doesn’t have to be a drawn out discussion, my consensus is to mention that Armenia can be considered European, Middle Eastern or Both while also leaving the part that Armenia generally aligns more with Europe.
This is my proposed consensus:
Occasionally, Armenia is considered part of the Middle East due to historical and cultural ties to the region. Geopolitically, Armenia can be considered European, Middle Eastern, or both. Since Armenia aligns itself in many respects geopolitically with Europe, the country is a member of numerous European organizations…
With this note (Note: The Middle East has no set boundaries and is defined by multiple definitions. The South Caucasus, where Armenia is located, is occasionally considered to be the northern extent or an extension of the Middle East due to its close cultural and historical ties to the region. [1] The CIA World Factbook as well as multiple scholarly publications place the Republic of Armenia in the Middle East. [2] [3] [4] Other definitions exclude Armenia or nclude it rather in the Greater Middle East due to its geopolitical alignment. [5]}}) I believe this is more than fair, not purposefully omitting viewpoints that have significant scholarship behind them for personal political reasons. I see absolutely no reason that some mention of this classification shouldn’t be included in this article, it’s only serves to confuse readers more and takes a stance on a debated issue which is not what Wikipedia is for. TagaworShah ( talk) 02:13, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
@ Archives908: I see that you do not understand what the term geopolitics or Middle East actually mean. Geopolitics is a discipline of Geography, it is not just foreign policy but the effects of Earth's geography (human and physical) on politics and international relations. Human geography includes things such as historical and cultural ties as well as economy and foreign policy and physical geography is stuff like Armenia being in western Asia. The Middle East is a transcontinental GEOPOLITICAL term, it is not a physical geographical term such as Western Asia therefore your argument shows a misunderstanding. If Armenia is ever grouped in with the Middle East it is due to geopolitical reasons because the Middle East itself is a geopolitical term. Also, it is entirely possible to be Geopolitically European and Middle Eastern, Cyprus and Turkey are prime examples so any arguments about Armenia and Europe are irrelevant because one does not negate the other and nobody is arguing for removal of Europe from the lede. I suggest looking into what geopolitics actually means because this confusion is a rather big one and needs to be resolved before we can continue to reach consensus, I never said I wasn’t talking about Geography, I very much am, that’s why I titled this discussion that, Geopolitics is intrinsically linked with Geography and you cannot talk about one without mentioning the other since one is a discipline of the other. The reason Armenia is often grouped with the Middle East is because of its Human and Physical geography and it’s implications. Armenia has undeniable historical and cultural ties to the Middle East and its in Western Asia, whether Armenia’s current administration likes it or not, they are linked to the Middle East (literally) and have to establish geopolitical ties with their neighbors. This is why Armenia is grouped with the Middle East in many reliable sources such as GeoArabia, Middle East Review of International Affairs, Cambridge University Press [13], UCLA [14] and most importantly the Central Intelligence Agency; which is probably one of the best sources for Geopolitics since that is their specialty. As well as all the other sources I provided in my first comment. these are more than enough proof that this is a significant enough grouping to include in the lede. And Geopolitics includes all relations not only good, so while Armenia has strong geopolitical ties to Iran, it has very Negative ties with Turkey, but being it’s neighbor, they are involved in various geopolitical issues that factor into the consideration of Armenia as being apart of the Middle East. [15] But again you don’t have to take my word for it, the sources say what they say, and I strongly believe in listening to the sources especially specialized ones like the CIA who know this topic way better than we do. The argument that since Armenia is already part of West Asia, that covers its geopolitical ties with the Middle East is absurd, western Asia is a physical geographical term and is not mutually exclusive with the Middle East, and the Middle East is a geopolitical term. Also the assertion that Armenia is somehow a “cradle of European culture” is absolutely absurd and a WP:OR connection using a primary source, Armen Sarkissian, who is pushing a WP:FRINGE view, I have never seen a single peer reviewed journal from a reputable academic press push that notion, certainly Armenia has influences from places that have actually been labeled Cradles of European culture by reliable sources such as Greece, however, it also has deep cultural ties with Iran and the rest of the Middle East, that’s a well known fact and I’m not gonna argue that any further because it’s irrelevant to this conversation. Middle East is a TRANSCONTINENTAL region, it includes parts of Europe, West Asia, and North Africa. Your proposal is nowhere near fair and it is plain wrong as the Middle East is a geopolitical term, my proposal of adding a mention to the occasional inclusion of Armenia in the Middle East due to reasons stated above and in previous comments, you completely ignored the sources I provided in my other comment about Armenia strengthening geopolitical ties with the Middle East, in addition to what is already there to clear up one of the most notable questions about Armenia and improve the article. TagaworShah ( talk) 19:17, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
References
cia-fact
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The South Caucasus region--consisting of Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia--can be said to be the new, northern extension of the Middle East.
…defines the Middle East as comprising Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Georgia, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Syria, and Turkey.
What exactly is a "freedom index" and how can "it be claimed" that it improved after the death of Joseph Stalin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.102.105.155 ( talk) 20:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
The Kingdom of Armenia (antiquity) is missing on the info box in the establishment section 331 BC— Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.51.127 ( talk) 14:13, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Not useful, repetitive, incoherent... — Paleo Neonate – 04:08, 9 January 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Here is information by European Union Official Website regardless of Eastern European countries that I think it should be edited for "article of Armenia" where is mentioned as Asian country. From other side if Armenia were Asian country more % of the population must have been Asians but Armenians are not Asians. This information can be useful for edit for other countries below. Eastern Europe "EU relations with Region" Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU Eastern Partnership The Eastern Partnership (EaP) is a joint initiative involving the EU, its Member States and six Eastern European Partner countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, the Republic of Moldova and Ukraine - here is saying clearly ...six Eastern European countries nothing about Asia EU official website for Eastern Europe https://eeas.europa.eu/regions/eastern-europe/341/eastern-europe_en
Eastern Europe Neighbourhood East (Region 2) Armenia; Azerbaijan; Belarus; Georgia; Moldova; Territory of Ukraine as recognised by international law https://erasmus-plus.ec.europa.eu/programme-guide/part-a/eligible-countries — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catperson1 ( talk • contribs) 17:29, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
I don't agree with your statement rejecting denying European Union statement while it says clearly the continent and countries. It doesn't matter if that information that allegedly Armenia is Western Asia stay from long time. Not everything is truth including geography. There are things which is not accurate in this worlds. However, I investigated also information by European Council where Caucasus countries are in there as Member States. Armenia Georgia Azerbaijan...are in European Council and I think none of Asian countries can be in European Council besides its continent. It's like to say Armenia United States of America. It's not logical. Here is about European Council, section "About" History Founded in 1949, the Council of Europe is one of the oldest and the biggest European organisation, which unifies 47 member states and promotes the main principles of the Human Rights. During its 50 years' activity the organisation has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the whole CONTINENT ●Pay attention it says the organisation has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the whole CONTINENT and so logically Caucasus countries belong to Europe Continent cause we are in European Council Besides that Armenia couldn't be Asian country I mention in above that. I don't understand why you insist yours. If Armenia is Asian country there must be Asians. Armenians are not Asians. 98% of nation is Armenians. Armenians form a distinctive cluster bounded by Europeans, Near Easterners, and the Caucasus populations. More specifically, Armenians are close to (1) Spaniards, Italians, and Romanians from Europe; (2) Lebanese, Jews, Druze, and Cypriots from the Near East; and (3) Georgians and Abkhazians from the Caucasus - according to European Journal Of Human Genetics European Journal Of Human Genetics https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2015206 Every country has it's own nation. It can't be for example in Asia like Kazakhstan 50% more Swedish or French or Spanish. or contrary. Hope.it helps Catperson1 ( talk) 10:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
European Council Website https://www.coe.int/en/web/yerevan/the-coe/about-coe And as I explained above Armenia can't be Asian country for that reason above as I explained. It's mistake disinformation that Armenia is Western Asia. Regardless of USA it's North America according to their official website as I am aware. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catperson1 ( talk • contribs) 11:30, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
I think you don't get it what I say and what it says by European Council. There is not saying ...the organisation has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the whole CONTINENT and geopolitically continent. You don't get it what it says. I am not talking about just organization and the organization is about Europe continent. If China being in Europe Council do you think it would be called Europe? European county? It's not logic. And if Armenia or Caucasus countries are not in Europe continent why we would be in European Council then? It's not saying in EU official website about geopolitically things. It says ...has deepened and spread its field of action throughout the WHOLE CONTINENT where you read geopolitically things ? Enter and read at least. So EU and Council is nothing but you is something with your knowledge which is poor?. Not accurate. Wikipedia is not always accurate by the way. Catperson1 ( talk) 14:02, 6 January 2022 (UTC) I would like to mention that even some people are saying confirming that for example from Greece. He said being tourist I Armenia that Armenia And Greece are Estern European countries by continent despite that in Wikipedia says different and one Dubai man called me Eastern European and do you think they never searched in Google about Armenia so it means we know better and certain informations Catperson1 ( talk) 14:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC) And you don't think logically either. I have explained Armenia can't be Asian country cause Armenians are not Asians and how it's possible to live non Asian nation (Armenians 98%) in an Asian country? Or in other countries? Or Like French be in China 90%. It's not logically Catperson1 ( talk) 14:45, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Here is also Wikipedia page where is says correctly but it needs to be fixed in general Armenia page Eastern Europe is formed by countries with dominant Orthodox churches, like Armenia, Belarus, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Georgia, Greece, Moldova, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Romania, Russia, Serbia, and Ukraine, for instance.[17][18] The Eastern Orthodox Church has played a prominent role in the history and culture of Eastern and Southeastern Europe.[19] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe Catperson1 ( talk) 14:58, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Also some information by EuroVoc. EuroVoc is a multilingual thesaurus maintained by the Publications Office of the European Union. where Caucasus countries are in the list of Europe Continent. Here is not saying geopolitically The geographical sub-regions of Europe as defined by EuroVoc:[1] Central and Eastern Europe Edit Albania Armenia Azerbaijan Belarus Bosnia and Herzegovina Bulgaria Czech Republic Croatia Georgia Hungary Moldova Montenegro North Macedonia Poland Romania Russia Serbia Slovakia Slovenia Ukraine
Here is EU Statement: (Eastern Europe) "EU relations with Region" Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU Eastern Partnership The Eastern Partnership (EaP) is a joint initiative involving the EU, its Member States and six Eastern European Partner countries: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, the Republic of Moldova and Ukraine - here is saying clearly ...six Eastern European countries nothing about Asia EU official website for Eastern Europe https://eeas.europa.eu/regions/eastern-europe/341/eastern-europe_en
https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/914 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catperson1 ( talk • contribs) 15:30, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
You are based on Wikipedia which is not always true. Asians are fanatic of Wikipedia but even I posted Eatearn European page by Wikipedia. I don't care your not logical explanation. It's about education. You should have been prove by European Union first that those Caucasus countries are not in European continent ok? In European Council page isn't saying that the European organisation deepened its field to Europe and geopolitical European continent. You are just envying. Don't be it's not my fault that I am European country and you Asia Catperson1 ( talk) 15:53, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Learn carefully and then say if there is saying about geopolitically countries ok!!! You don't have good logic don't urge with me https://www.coe.int/en/web/yerevan/the-coe/about-coe Catperson1 ( talk) 15:56, 6 January 2022 (UTC) Informations also that in LDS church countries page Armenia is in Europe page and in Swedish Cosmetic company also. I don't think they would think geopolitically. They could just put Armenia in Asia list. It needs to be fixed in Wikipedia https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/facts-and-statistics https://oriflame.com/ Catperson1 ( talk) 16:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC) The correction it's about also all Caucasus countries not only for Armenia Catperson1 ( talk) 16:21, 6 January 2022 (UTC) As I mentioned above anyway from Wikipedia regardless EuroVoc also, where it says geographically not geopolitically like this way "The geographical sub-regions of Europe as defined by EuroVoc:[1] Central and Eastern Europe then countries included Caucasus countries... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroVoc I share too official website of EUROPEAN UNION where is EuroVoc(EuroVoc is a multilingual thesaurus maintained by the Publications Office of the European Union) Caucasus Countries https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/7208 Central and Eastern Europe https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept/-/resource?uri=http://eurovoc.europa.eu/914 There is nothing about geopolitically European countries Catperson1 ( talk) 18:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC) I got paper statement It's called this ACTION FICHE FOR 2007 ENPI-EAST ANNUAL ACTION PROGRAMME (It's with PDF so I couldn't share here) you can search and read For the three Southern Caucasus countries. Here it says about Border management system with EU. Because EU is different than general "Europe" Caucasus countries located on the traditional 'Silk Road' transit route, border management has always been a key issue, with the goal of having a secure system where criminal flows are efficiently prevented whereas legitimate transit flows are facilitated. With the region now bordering the EU... Catperson1 ( talk) 23:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC) |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Elenazadoyan.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 14:43, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
We should try and follow other countries articles and not add random galleries. That is follow WP:Gallery and FA level articles with normal-sized images. Not seeing why we would need a few galleries causing WP:UNDUE in a few sections. We should also fix the text sandwich problem as per WP:SANDWICH. We should also remove the official Government website as this is not a government of article as per most other country articles. Needless to say mass revert was detrimental to the article. Was going to start adding sources....but wondering if this receent chnage is really a point of contention. Moxy- 16:00, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
I disagree that the EL to the government's website is irrelevant to the infobox. Liberia's article, for instance, has one, too.
As for Moxy's concerns, are there any specific images that you think should be removed, and do you have a proposal for correcting the issue where too many images on one side of the page can spill into sections other than the one they relate to? As seen on my desktop, for instance, the Geography section has the two climate-related figures pushed out of the subsections they relate to, with the CO2 emissions graph overhanging into the Government and politics section. But for now, I'll focus on the Culture section, since this is the one that is most disputed. Here' my thoughts, broken down in the order they appear in the wikicode:
– LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 09:27, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
I just replaced the image of the sports complex with the one I listed; any other comments about the alphabet image? – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 14:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Which images should be included in the #History section? (There are no non-free files in this article.) – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 20:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
15 images, in the order they appear in the wikicode
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No images References
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"By 1920, the state was incorporated into the Transcaucasian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic"
The article on that Republic says that it wasn't established until 1922. Which is correct? Harfarhs ( talk) 22:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Louis Aragon removed all the changes I made completely unjustifiably. [
seeCite error: The opening <ref>
tag is malformed or has a bad name (see the
help page).
Louis Aragon: "rv sock of LTA Araxes theThief"
Sorry, it's been months since the "Araxes TheThief" account was shut down and I'm still on trial for it. It's clear that I'm no longer responsible for this, I haven't made a single change to the English Wikipedia in months. Thank you.
Araxishomegas (
talk) 00:15, 5 August 2022 (UTC)<---
CU blocked
sock of
User:Araxes TheThief
I removed some material from the end of the last paragraph of the lead and User:Archives908 restored it with the edit summary "confused how this is not lead worthy?" The paragraph is about Armenia's economy and membership in international associations. The three sentences I removed were:
Armenia supports the de facto independent Artsakh, which was proclaimed in 1991. Armenia also recognises the Armenian Apostolic Church, the world's oldest national church, as the country's primary religious establishment. The unique Armenian alphabet was created by Mesrop Mashtots in 405 AD.
These are three random facts that are off-topic for the paragraph, and none of them are defining facts about Armenia such as it makes sense to have in the lead. Regarding Artsakh, I would similarly not expect to find the fact that a country recognizes Taiwan or Somaliland to be mentioned in the lead of the article on that country. I also don't see the mention of the recognition of the church as lead-worthy. The fact about the alphabet is rather one step removed from being about the country, being, rather, a random fact about the national language. It's like discussing the origin of the Greek alphabet in the lead of the Greece article. Largoplazo ( talk) 21:22, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I would like the protection template to be changed to an icon. 64.114.239.31 ( talk) 19:08, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
I am just observing the current minor edit war. Armenia is without doubt geographically in Asia but is that too narrow a view? Iceland is geographically in North America but is treated as being in Europe. I don't know enough about its history to comment in any depth but Armenia obviously has a Christian heritage with the country divided in the past between Christian and non-Christian rule. With there being a fairly loose treatment of Europe=Christianity and Asia=Islam it is easy to see how Armenia could have been regarded as an outpost of Europe within Asia. As a comparison, it is not unknown, certainly pre- c.1920, for East Thrace (Turkey/Islam) to be thought of as a piece of Asia within Europe. This type of thinking is not fashionable now but it was in the past and I do wonder if that is the root of treating Armenia as being in Europe? Ultimately, what do sources say? Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 19:58, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Archives908, I removed uncited content. I thought this would be self-explanatory, as it had a citation request. Why have you restored this? Stara Marusya ( talk) 19:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Why does Archives908 say there's a consensus to retain unsourced text in the lead? Stara Marusya ( talk) 11:37, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:41, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the article, it says that Armenia is in West Asia, while it's at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia. Its neighbors Azerbaijan and Georgia are declared partially Eastern European in Wikipedia, while all three of these countries are located at the intersection of Eastern Europe. The sources to prove that Armenia is West Asian [19] are outdated and Georgia and Azerbaijan are declared as West Asian/Middle Eastern at all of those sources as well. So according to that outdated sources, Georgia and Azerbaijan should've been in West Asia/Middle East as well. I offer to change the line "Armenia is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of Western Asia." to "Armenia is a landlocked country at the intersection of Eastern Europe and Western Asia." Here are some sources I found declaring Armenia as Eastern European/at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia.
World Atlas puts Armenia at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia [20]. European Union(EEAS) says Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU [21]. BBC puts Armenia in Europe [22](check the navigation bar). Wikipedia puts Armenia in Eastern Europe in article "Eastern Europe" [23] McGill says Culturally, historically, and politically, Armenia is considered to be part of Europe. However, its location in the southern Caucasus means that it can also be considered to be at the arbitrary border between Europe and Asia [24] Albert11000 ( talk) 11:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template.
M.Bitton (
talk) 13:54, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the article, it says that Armenia is in West Asia, while it's at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia. Its neighbors Azerbaijan and Georgia are declared partially Eastern European in Wikipedia, while all three of these countries are located at the intersection of Eastern Europe. The sources to prove that Armenia is West Asian [25] are outdated and Georgia and Azerbaijan are declared as West Asian/Middle Eastern at all of those sources as well. So according to that outdated sources, Georgia and Azerbaijan should've been in West Asia/Middle East as well. I offer to change the line "Armenia is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of Western Asia." to "Armenia is a landlocked country at the intersection of Eastern Europe and Western Asia." Here are some sources I found declaring Armenia as Eastern European/at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia.
World Atlas puts Armenia at the intersection of Eastern Europe and West Asia [26]. European Union(EEAS) says Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Georgia, The Republic of Moldova and Ukraine are European countries not part of the EU [27]. BBC puts Armenia in Europe [28](check the navigation bar). Wikipedia puts Armenia in Eastern Europe in article "Eastern Europe" [29] McGill says Culturally, historically, and politically, Armenia is considered to be part of Europe. However, its location in the southern Caucasus means that it can also be considered to be at the arbitrary border between Europe and Asia [30] Albert11000 ( talk) 11:08, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
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M.Bitton (
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I marked the article In Use hoping for some time to rework the foreign relations section and trim the lede. The lede was entirely too long and needed trimmed. The info on all the foriegn bodies it belongs to can be incorporated into the appropriate section and this can be ce'd. If after I'm done (I'll removed the tag) it can be rv if necessary, hopefully though it will be seen as a positive change and any issues can be worked out from that point. // Timothy :: talk 17:22, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
The country is transcontinental and spans both Europe and Asia. It is incorrect to state that the country is solely in West Asia. This needs to be amended or some clarity needs to be added. It is simply not enough to state it has been discussed already, or cite sources. There are reliable sources that state Armenia is a European country, as well as an Asian country. The Armenian people have cultural ties to both continents. This needs to be referred to a competent administrator. — Preceding signed comment added by Mir 5.61.122.218 ( talk) 15:56, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
I am confused about the lead suggesting Armenia is in Western Asia, rather than in Eastern Europe and Western Asia. I don’t know when this update to this article happened. 130.88.226.20 ( talk) 14:48, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
130.88.226.20 ( talk) 17:28, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I have copy edited the lede and the section on foriegn relations. It was wholesale rv'd. (See section above). See copy edited version Question: IIs this the right version?
here, status quo version
here
This
edit request to
Armenia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The geographical location of Armenia is not correctly stated. The Lachin corridor citation [15] is not a credible source to suggest that the “Lachin corridor being under Russian peace keeping force” is the geographical border of Armenia. Armenia has its southern border with Iran not Nakhchivan. Nakhchivan is southwest and it being an exclave of Azerbaijan has nothing to do the geographical location of Armenia.
Please change: “It is part of the Caucasus region and is bordered by Turkey to the west, Georgia to the north, the Lachin corridor (under a Russian peacekeeping force) and Azerbaijan to the east, and Iran and the Azerbaijani exclave of Nakhchivan to the south.”
to
“It is part of the Caucasus region and is bordered by Georgia to the north, Azerbaijan to the east, Iran to the south and Nakhchivan and Turkey to the west.”
Sources: Encyclopedia Britannica https://www.britannica.com/place/Armenia Yotanasun ( talk) 10:55, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit semi-protected}}
template. According to the
2020 Nagorno-Karabakh ceasefire agreement article, and its map, Armenia does not share an eastern border with Azerbaijan, only a northern one. Sole-sourcing your edit to Britannica seems ill-advised in this case. I think your request would be better discussed by an editor with deep experience in the region, and that appears to be @
Archives908. If they don't respond, check the edit history of the page (and related articles) and reach out to other editors active in those articles. Thanks!
Xan747 (
talk) 16:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)According to multiple sources, Armenia is considered a European country in Western Asia. In the article now we have: "is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of West Asia, with geopolitical ties to Europe.", but in reality it is more like "Armenia is a landlocked country in the Armenian Highlands of West Asia. It is geographically in Western Asia, but culturally and geopolitically European". Some sources proving my point is already in the article( https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/armenia, "Armenia Country Overview | World Health Organization", https://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/armenia.htm),
but I found some more sources: https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispeedia/wpcd/wp/a/Armenia.htm#:~:text=Culturally%2C%20historically%2C%20and%20politically%2C,other%20words%2C%20a%20transcontinental%20nation.
https://mycountryeurope.com/culture/other-side-europe-armenia/ Albert11000 ( talk) 11:18, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Archives908 You have it backwards in your edit summary at [31]. In an earlier discussion now at /Archive 9, two people challenged the inclusion of those sentences in the lead. The burden is therefore on you to persuade others that there's sufficient rationale for inclusion.
Three sentences about completely different topics from each other shouldn't be thrown together at the end of the lead, particularly in a paragraph that is otherwise about another topic altogether, which is at best poor writing, and especially when two of them are very subsidiary topics. (Possibly, if better presented, information about the official religion would be suitable.)
Most glaringly, the identity of the person who created the alphabet used to write the language spoken by most people in Armenia is at four levels of remove from the topic of Armenia (people of > language those people speak > alphabet used to write that language > creator of that alphabet). It's like mentioning in the lead of Italy that the Italian/Latin alphabet was derived from the Greek alphabet. It doesn't remotely belong.
You need to provide rationale for inclusion that overcomes this plenty sufficient rationale for removal. Largoplazo ( talk) 14:20, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Archives908: Don't know why ping didn't appear to be working. The little notification icon wasn't appearing for me but now I see that you were pinged three times. Apologies for pestering you, it was unintentional. Largoplazo ( talk) 14:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
A third person [32] has demonstrated agreement regarding the sentence about the alphabet, and has moved the sentence about the religion to an appropriate place. Largoplazo ( talk) 15:12, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
2607:FB91:7993:DC0:AC39:9A57:4FDC:4FC3 ( talk) 14:09, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
“Armenia supports the de facto independent Republic of Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh), which was proclaimed in 1991 on territory internationally recognized as part of Azerbaijan.” This statement from the lede appears out-of-date & misleading. That’s in view of ongoing reintegration of the region into Azerbaijan; unopposed by Armenia. Frenchmalawi ( talk) 00:40, 26 September 2023 (UTC)