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Yukon Gold potato. Please take a moment to review
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– Per
WP:NATURALDIS policy (part of
WP:AT) and
WP:DISAMBIG, we choose natural over parenthetic disambiguation when natural is available. Also per
WP:CONSISTENCY, both with other disambiguated potato articles and with other breed articles (thousands of them). These all being cultivars (plant breeds),
several years of breed RMs – consistently in favor of natural disambiguation – are strong precedent. NB: Cultivar names are conventionally capitalized, as codified in the ICNCP; this does not extend to a disambiguating word added to the end for clarity. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 04:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting.Anarchyte (
work |
talk)12:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Hmm, but we don't even have redirects from things like
Potato 'Yukon Gold', so the demand (reader expectation) seems to be low, at least for
Category:Food plant cultivars. I.e., that version isn't the
WP:COMMONNAME. (It might be
Category:Ornamental plant cultivars, mostly covered in specialist publications. At least, botantical editors here have consistently applied Cryptanthus 'Koning' style to them. I'll constrain any more RMs of this sort to food plants.) People may some day try to make a
WP:CONSISTENCY and
WP:JARGON case against the ornamental titles, but they are consistent within the category, and we're also stably using scientific names for plant species, so it seems unlikely, and unlikely to succeed.) We probably should have those Potato 'Yukon Gold' redirs, but that'll be a lot of work. I've been afraid to look and see how many cultivar articles we have. ;-) —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC), revised —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 03:46, 4 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Support. I don't think the ambiguity identified by
Anthony Appleyard is especially likely to cause confusion – presumably readers are capable of distinguishing between a value judgement in Wikipedia's voice and a value judgement in the name of the thing being discussed, or we would have more people complaining about our failure to include their favourite song in
The Best of Pink Floyd, noting that
The World's Greatest Tag Team were actually mediocre, etc. –
Arms & Hearts (
talk)
20:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
That, and the lead sentence makes it clear that 'Superior' is the cultivar name. Also, "potatoes that are [claimed to be] superior" isn't a valid encyclopedia topic, so it's not something we'd disambiguate for. Lots of other cases:
[1],
[2],
[3]. They're all either a) names that contain/are the superlative word (as is the case here); b) "
words as words treatment of
terms of art that use a superlative (e.g. "
best practice" – it's the real world that says whether something is one, not WP); or c) a different use of the word (e.g. "superior" in an organizational hierarchy sense). The only exception I remember seeing is
List of best Major League Baseball season win-loss records which is a bit iffy, but perhaps defensible in that it's 100% provable, objective mathematics (and we had an RfC a few years ago against the jargon term "winningest") —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Disagree Potato 'Yukon Gold' etc. is my preferred choice, reflecting the naming practices found beyond WP -- vs the choices here being discussed ("parentheses" and "natural"). See
International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. Yes it is a lot of work, but so is removing all the parenthesis, and at least the 'single-quote' way you have a scientifically respectable product.
GeeBee60 (
talk)
21:24, 7 October 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm not going Edit War on this, (choose the hill you want to die on), but I'm not convinced that the rationale that it is a lot of work and lay folk don't care is necessarily a valid argument. Way back when, I didn't want to learn scientific nomenclature. But I did and am grateful for it. Same for varietal names -- the correct name is Potato 'Yukon Gold' (etc.). But, do what you want, I've commented twice.
GeeBee60 (
talk)
16:49, 12 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment: I feel like a consensus is starting to brew, but there's some contention as to whether it should go to "Potato 'x'" or "x potato". I believe another week will help settle the dirt. Anarchyte (
work |
talk)12:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
"...and a 'Norgleam' potato native to North Dakota."
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
plants and
botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PlantsWikipedia:WikiProject PlantsTemplate:WikiProject Plantsplant articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
food and
drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review
WP:Trivia and
WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
select here.
Consider joining this project's
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Note: These lists are
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External links modified
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Yukon Gold potato. Please take a moment to review
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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– Per
WP:NATURALDIS policy (part of
WP:AT) and
WP:DISAMBIG, we choose natural over parenthetic disambiguation when natural is available. Also per
WP:CONSISTENCY, both with other disambiguated potato articles and with other breed articles (thousands of them). These all being cultivars (plant breeds),
several years of breed RMs – consistently in favor of natural disambiguation – are strong precedent. NB: Cultivar names are conventionally capitalized, as codified in the ICNCP; this does not extend to a disambiguating word added to the end for clarity. —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 04:03, 3 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting.Anarchyte (
work |
talk)12:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Hmm, but we don't even have redirects from things like
Potato 'Yukon Gold', so the demand (reader expectation) seems to be low, at least for
Category:Food plant cultivars. I.e., that version isn't the
WP:COMMONNAME. (It might be
Category:Ornamental plant cultivars, mostly covered in specialist publications. At least, botantical editors here have consistently applied Cryptanthus 'Koning' style to them. I'll constrain any more RMs of this sort to food plants.) People may some day try to make a
WP:CONSISTENCY and
WP:JARGON case against the ornamental titles, but they are consistent within the category, and we're also stably using scientific names for plant species, so it seems unlikely, and unlikely to succeed.) We probably should have those Potato 'Yukon Gold' redirs, but that'll be a lot of work. I've been afraid to look and see how many cultivar articles we have. ;-) —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC), revised —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 03:46, 4 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Support. I don't think the ambiguity identified by
Anthony Appleyard is especially likely to cause confusion – presumably readers are capable of distinguishing between a value judgement in Wikipedia's voice and a value judgement in the name of the thing being discussed, or we would have more people complaining about our failure to include their favourite song in
The Best of Pink Floyd, noting that
The World's Greatest Tag Team were actually mediocre, etc. –
Arms & Hearts (
talk)
20:01, 3 October 2017 (UTC)reply
That, and the lead sentence makes it clear that 'Superior' is the cultivar name. Also, "potatoes that are [claimed to be] superior" isn't a valid encyclopedia topic, so it's not something we'd disambiguate for. Lots of other cases:
[1],
[2],
[3]. They're all either a) names that contain/are the superlative word (as is the case here); b) "
words as words treatment of
terms of art that use a superlative (e.g. "
best practice" – it's the real world that says whether something is one, not WP); or c) a different use of the word (e.g. "superior" in an organizational hierarchy sense). The only exception I remember seeing is
List of best Major League Baseball season win-loss records which is a bit iffy, but perhaps defensible in that it's 100% provable, objective mathematics (and we had an RfC a few years ago against the jargon term "winningest") —
SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 00:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Disagree Potato 'Yukon Gold' etc. is my preferred choice, reflecting the naming practices found beyond WP -- vs the choices here being discussed ("parentheses" and "natural"). See
International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants. Yes it is a lot of work, but so is removing all the parenthesis, and at least the 'single-quote' way you have a scientifically respectable product.
GeeBee60 (
talk)
21:24, 7 October 2017 (UTC)reply
I'm not going Edit War on this, (choose the hill you want to die on), but I'm not convinced that the rationale that it is a lot of work and lay folk don't care is necessarily a valid argument. Way back when, I didn't want to learn scientific nomenclature. But I did and am grateful for it. Same for varietal names -- the correct name is Potato 'Yukon Gold' (etc.). But, do what you want, I've commented twice.
GeeBee60 (
talk)
16:49, 12 October 2017 (UTC)reply
Relisting comment: I feel like a consensus is starting to brew, but there's some contention as to whether it should go to "Potato 'x'" or "x potato". I believe another week will help settle the dirt. Anarchyte (
work |
talk)12:26, 10 October 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
"...and a 'Norgleam' potato native to North Dakota."