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American Heritage Dictionary spells it correctly without the accent. I'm going to change it, since it reflects a post-colonial bias to misspell stubbornly a foreign-loan word. Peace. Why is mate spelled maté here? I've never seen it spelled this way before. I believe the right way of doing it is just as "mate", with a plain E. - Pilaf 03:39, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The word hierba is Spanish for grass or herb; yerba is a variant spelling of it which is quite common... ...Mate is from the Quechua mati, meaning "cup". Yerba mate is therefore literally the "cup herb".
yerba One entry found. Main Entry: yer·ba ma·té Pronunciation: \ˌyer-bə-ˈmä-ˌtā, ˌyər-\ Function: noun Etymology: American Spanish yerba mate, from yerba herb + mate maté Date: 1839
It might not be an English drink, but both Brazil and Argentina have significant numbers of Anglophone immigrants and descendants and other sojourners who would quickly come in contact with the beverage.
Of course the spelling maté could also suggest a French usage as well. The accent aigu is not a real accent in French and really isn't in English. The alternative to maté is either to pronounce it like 'matey' or to barbarically spell it *matay (the asterisk designating a form not in use, as in " *eated"). Such words as café, résumé, and protégé -- all originally French -- are in use in English and are properly so spelled.
I checked the French version of the article on yerba maté ... and the beverage and plant are identified as such -- literally. To be sure, the area in which yerba maté is grown and heavily consumed is not an officially Francophone area. But that said, both Argentina and Brazil have had substantial numbers of French immigrants and their descendants, and they surely use the accent aigu for the beverage and the drink when communicating in French. Such people would know about the beverage and the plant. The acute accent does not have the same significance in French as in Spanish.
The acute accent would be barbarous in Spanish or Portuguese prose, but it would be expected in French (where it isn't a real accent) and reasonable in English. Americans do not have a problem with the pronunciation of the Spanish e as in Laredo or even Tecate, let alone the barbarously-named Mission Viejo. Pbrower2a ( talk) 18:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
That's not how you spell it. There are hardly any Google hits with this spelling (either Spanish or English). Is this an April fools joke? I don't find it very funny since the page move cannot be undone without admin assistance. I have requested undoing this move on WP:AN. Han-Kwang 10:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
It is irrelevant whether it is used with an accent in Spanish, this is the English Wikipedia. This page is being monopolised by Spanish speaking users who speak English as a second or third language and had no idea how the word was spelled in English. Come to your senses people! —☆ CieloEstrellado 19:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that this is the English Wikipedia. Writing it in English would not be correct spelling, regardless of what Wikipedia this is. The word is originally Spanish and thus must be written as it is written in said language. It would be idiotic to put something wrong just because dictionary-based bureaucracies demand it. In fact, writing it as it should be written would help people who don't know how it's spelled or pronounced to actually know how to say it. It would sound extremely awkward if somebody from an English speaking country just came to Argentina and asked for a drink of "maté". Needless to say, this English dictionary is wrong. As if it wasn't obvious enough, I think the best option is to leave it as Yerba Mate. Slartibartfast1992 03:09, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the only relevant question is whether we choose the official spelling (maté) or the most common spelling in English context (mate). The Spanish spelling convention is not relevant. Han-Kwang 17:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
All the major sources are agreed that the correct English spelling carries an acute accent. This article has been renamed from Yerba mate to Yerba maté as the result of a move request. -- Stemonitis 19:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC) Excuse me, but there was no concensus whatsoever to move the page, why did you move it and closed the discussion??? BTW, All mejor sources recognice Yerba mate as the most common spelling. -- Mariano( t/ c) 19:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC) Hypercorrection. User:Ejrrjs says What? 22:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
From a latecomer, some thoughts:
The motivation for use of the "é" rather than a plain "e" appears to be due to a perception that without the indicator, typical English speakers would pronounce the term improperly - ie. in a way which is uncommon, (!) or in a way which conforms to the way "mate" is pronounced in another context. There is plenty of variance in the way English vowels are pronounced, with British and American pronunciation providing some intrinsic (but not official) guidance. The term "Yerba mate" is from Spanish and Quechua (nice explanation here). The word "yerba" itself is spelled in a way which is inconsistent with most Spanish usage (see Y#Spanish) and appears to be borrowed spelling from English usage. Genuine native language purists could argue that it should be spelled hierba mate rather than yerba mate. But English spelling conventions don't conform to Spanish rules. Nor do they conform to English "authorities". Spelling is a convention based on custom. There is little chance that someone who is familiar with the term will pronounce it incorrectly. So what are those who want the accented spelling complaining about? There is in fact a convention in English which dismisses the usage of accents and other non-standard characters in favor of plain spelling. What is lost in precise pronunciation is made up for in ease of spelling - hence more consistent spelling. The major influence for the use of accents in English appears to come by way of French, not Spanish. In either case, the acceptance of the "native" spelling is largely dealt with by the simplest-spelling rule. Anything else is a matter of taste - for which all argument is practically pointless.
As to the spelling of "yerba," it is completely consistent with the Spanish usage among the people who consume it in the rioplatense area of South America. The word may well be etymologically derived from the word "hierba," originally a dialectal variation of it, but I doubt that any native speakers of the region even think of a connection between the two words. They are both used with mutually exclusive meanings. Yerba is yerba /ʒerβa/ and hierba is hierba /jerβa/ (herb). The spelling "yerba" comes directly from the local Spanish, not from any anglicisation of "hierba." The introductory sentence "The leaves, popularly called "herb" (Spanish: yerba, Portuguese: erva)" needs to be changed or deleted, as the Spanish really does not mean "herb," but specifically refers to yerba mate. When they want to say "herb" they use the word "hierba." I challenge anyone who speaks Spanish with people from the region to replace one term with the other, and then see how people react. They will either be confused or correct you. Cospelero ( talk)
In addition, I don't think the accent helps pronunciation at all - in fact I think its more confusing because the accent in English is used largely to indicate stress and intonation, not the proper vowel sound - "ma-te" is neither pronounced as "MA-te" nor as "ma-TE", but the accent on the e would suggest the latter. Compare with "máte" 0- which seems to indicates a sound closer to the proper one. The point of diacritics is to be of help - it doesnt serve its apparent intended purpose here. This is to say nothing of the problem of inconsistency accross languages as to the usage of diacritics - they are special to the language and often not transferable. (This is not the only case where Frenchies seem to want to assert Frenchified spelling - Talk:Langues d'oïl).
The other motivation is claimed consistency with defacto language authorities like Oxford's. Because spelling is largely a matter of convention - or choices between conventions - Wikipedia defers to our own policy - not to Oxford's. - Ste vertigo 21:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
The article says
In English-speaking countries, the spelling used is yerba maté (with an accented é)[four cites]—where the acute accent indicates that the e is not silent, and thus that the word should not be pronounced as the English word mate.
and yet every non-Italicized usage of the word is unaccented and the article is mistitled.
As posters have already pointed out, the OED, Random House, Merriam-Webster, American Heritage all have maté as the correct English spelling, and this despite the tendency (especially in America and especially with ALT codes annoying to come by) to disaccent any word that can stand it. The Columbia Electronic Encylopedia and Encyclopedia Britannica also use the accent. Although the standard English spelling may change in the future, it hasn't yet, and the Latin American posters correcting English spelling based on their personal experiences in (Rioplatense- & Portuguese-speaking) Latin America are (although in perfectly good faith) simply in error.
Insulting the Oxford scholars above is an extreme example of avoiding NPOV, but illustrative; albeit those scholars do use British English, their English should be understood by the poster to be more correct and common for England than his own. Similarly the American English dictionaries, &c. WP:Competence.
If mate were a modern borrowing and unlisted in any English dictionaries, it'd be different; but it is listed and accented é simply has a different effect in English words than it does in Spanish or Portuguese. Similarly, given its presence and usage in English, italicizing every instance is silly. I appreciate that the Uruguayan and Argentine posters are active on this page and more interested in a subject closer to their culture, but consensus really doesn't apply ( WP: Democracy) when you're disregarding all authorities on a subject and not using English. The confusion with Spanish "I kill" is amusing but aside the point, since this isn't the Spanish wiki.
So far, the only probative argument against the maté spelling is the googling of current internet usage performed by Han-Kwang above, but it represents WP:OR and is far outweighed by the unanimous voice of the dictionaries and other encyclopedias. (Additionally, his search applies only to online usage and did not exclude pages based on this one or pages treating mate as a foreign Spanish word without reference to its native English usage.)
All English usage in the article should have the accented é; all italicized references to the Spanish origin of the word should not. The contradiction of pointing out English usage and not following it should've been clear before now, but regardless it's really that simple. Edits will follow shortly, and hopefully people will read through the discussion and relevant policies before inducing a revert war, prior to the dictionaries changing their spellings of the word. - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Part of the revision history of this page is at (the incorrectly capitalized) Yerba Mate [2]. -- Koyaanis Qatsi 13:15 Jan 18, 2003 (UTC)
Many English words come from French and not Spanish. So café and cafe - I think most English speakers would say them the same and recognize them as so in context. I guess they would do so for maté and mate too. Just because there are a lot of Spanish speakers here, doesn't mean that we have to look at a Spanish origin. WE should also look at a French etymological path. In which case maté fits with café, outré and blasé very well. There do not seem to be good arguments why we should look to a Spanish etymological path which would be inconsistent with this French pattern. If anyone knows please give them.
The article on maté or mate as it now should probably be consistent with this one - it is not as of now:
[3] - can an editor fix them. I am sorry to say they will both need locking due to the intransigence and unreasonableness of many readers of wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.96.60 ( talk) 07:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
As KQ points out, all of the claims that mate is caffeine-free come from unreliable sources. The reference to the Florida study I found in a quote from Dr. Andrew Weil, who is about as far from a skeptic about such things as one can be and still get the M.D. If he doesn't buy the claims, then there's certainly no credibility to them, because he believes lots of "herbal/alternative medicine" things there's very little evidence for. - Lee Daniel Crocker
In 1843, Stenhouse found in mate an alkaloid and proved that it was, identical with caffeine.
It's been stated in several places on the web that Mateine is a stereo-isomer of Caffeine. Caffeine isn't stereo-isotopic. Simply put, Yerba Mate does contain caffeine. If you doubt this, ask anyone studying Pre-Med, or better still, ask an organic chemist at any university if Caffeine is stereo-isotopic, and you'll get an emphatic "NO". If you are trying to quit Caffeine, Yerba Mate is not an option. If you are looking for an alternative to coffee, you may find Yerba Mate beneficial. Hope this helps. - Edward D.
Regarding the mateine/caffeine confusion, I have often been quoted as the source for that mistake. The original article that contained that informaiton was first produced as a draft that was supposed to have been validated before publication. Unfortunately, it was published by a distributor of yerba mate in a pamphlet before I was able to verify the veracity Dr. Martin's statement (I have his quote in a letter, so his denial of that quote is in error). My first guess as to what would differentiate mateine from caffeine was that they must be stereoisomers; I have repeatedly rescinded that opinion once I learned of the impossiblity of this arrangement. It was meant to be a minor point in my monograph, one that would have been immediately discarded if it had not been prematurely published for all the world to see (which popularity, by the way, I find outrageous).
Having admitted my chemical error, however, I am more convinced today than ever, that the physiological and nutritional activity of mate is very different than those provided by coffee, gurana and kola nut. The healthful benefits of mate far outweigh any activity traceable to caffeine alone, and may, as I originally implied, be related to the particular constellation of xanthines and other nutrients found in mate.
It states in this article:
However, the net amount of caffeine in one preparation of yerba mate is typically quite high, in large part because the repeated filling of the mate with hot water is able to extract the highly-soluble xanthines extremely effectively. It is for this reason that one mate may be shared among several people and yet produce the desired stimulating effect in all of them.
But, according to my understanding, the high water solubility of caffeine (and other xanthines, I suppose) means that extended and repeated brewing does little to extract additional caffeine. Upton Tea Import's information on decaffeinated tea says the following:
Decaffeinating Your Own Tea
Caffeine is highly water soluble, and nearly 80% of the total caffeine content of the tea leaves will be extracted within the first 30 seconds of steeping. If you wish to "decaffeinate" your own tea, the process is simple. Pour boiling water over the tea leaves, and allow a maximum of a 30 second rinse. Empty this water off, and pour fresh boiling water over the rinsed leaves to brew for the prescribed time.
Although this was about tea, not yerba mate, I think we can assuming all plant materials lose their caffeine roughly equivalently... It sounds to me like the article's statement cannot be true -- either the xanthines are highly soluble and repeated filling & brewing extracts very little additional, or they are not highly soluble and repeated filling & brewing extracts significant additional amounts. -- Madprime 01:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Speaking as a decidedly non-expert, anglo-North American, I thought the consenus was that sugar should not be added. I have drunk maté for several years, but I have never used sugar myself. Also, might not the traditional ritual of passing the the gourd be mentioned? I always felt it was an interesting aspect of the whole thing. Silly, I suppose... - Sjfloat 14:57 26 May 2003 (UTC)
Minor terminology question... should we refer to Tea or Tisane/Herbal tea? - Logotu
Doesn't anyone have a picture of the plant?
Have converted this to my best reckoning, /jE@b{ ma:teI/. The replaced entry claimed it was pronounced /jE@bVh m{hteI/, which seems highly improbable
When I went to Rio de Janeiro the pronunciation I heard was more like "match", with an "ah" sound rhyming with "watch". Occasionally I heard the "e" on the end like the brand "Matte Leão" sounded like "motch-uh leeown". Has anyone else heard this pronunciation or is this maybe a regional pronunciation for Rio? ( Corby ( talk) 07:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC))
Why should the Spanish or Portuguese translations be of any relevance for the pronunciation if they aren't for the spelling? In English it is pronounced ma-TAY, because of the accent.-- 87.162.28.69 ( talk) 01:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm kind of doubtful of this new section. I've had mate for years, and I've never seen cobras, nor has my father seen spiders, nor my grandmother dancing demons. Theanthrope 22:01, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
increased focus is a form of hallucination — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.132.42 ( talk) 19:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Some years back, I read a story about a South American politican who was killed while drinking a mate and driving. Supposedly, he hit a bump, and the bombilla was driven up through his soft palate and into his brain. Now I can't find the story anywhere. I've Googled any number of terms to no success. Does this ring a bell for anyone? - 206.136.148.148 18:34, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I just searched Pub Med for Yerba Mate found an article stating that "Ardisia and mate teas may thus share a public health potential as chemopreventive agents" So not Sure I buy the carcinogen bit.. Here's a link to the Abstract.. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15450404 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11213015&dopt=Abstract http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104524990/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
ejrrjs- Maté contains caffeine; furthermore, it is used as a stimulant like coffee, tea, coca tea, and so on. That clearly puts it into the Herbal & fungal drugs/medicines category. People don't just drink it for the taste, (although it is delicious!); they drink it for its other properties as well. my assumption is that you are reacting the negative connotation of "drug", which is understandable, but the category is "herbal and fungal drugs/medicines", which range from chamomile tea to coffee to ayahuasca/jage. the category is pretty heavy right now on the "drugs" with less of the "medicines", but this is temporary; healing poultices, psychoactives, and mild stimulants all have places there, as do st john's wort and a million other things. I've put maté back into the category, for all of the above reasons. Heah 17:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I subdivided the Drinking mate section. It might be a bit overdivided now, but I felt the original was way too long, and less subdivition was unconsistent. I also added some paragraphs to that section that I would like to have revised for style-- Lacrymology 08:18:14, 2005-08-04 (UTC)
This article is truly great; as an argentinian I´m amazed that such a complete essay on mate could appear on Wikipedia :). However, I have one minor correction:
"University students in South America have reported to be unable to study unless they are drinking mate, and furthermore, that studying is sometimes just an excuse for drinking it."
I find this very doubtful. Unless some scientific/statistic evidence is provided, I w/uld regard this as hearsay. I´m a student at university and I´ve never seen people "unable to study" unless they have mate. It is the practical equivalent of someone not being able to study without coffee, which is a sign of addictive behaviour. Not common at all from my experience. But again, someone correct me if there´s any scientific evidence of this (a poll of some sorts). -unsigned
I can't find any information on drinking mate while pregnant on this page. Do pregnant women avoid drinking mate in South American countries? There are many many cautions against it on the web but I can't tell if it's commercial CYA (mainly from using it as a supplement), allopathic misinformation and alarmism or based on the shared experience of traditional societies or longstanding tradition. Also info about possible risks (if any) to nursing mothers and their infants would be helpful. Thanks.
I found this, for what is worth: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/135/5/1120 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.80.204.2 ( talk) 19:53, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is too long. I am wondering if we should leve the shrub alone and move the drink and drinking issues to Mate (beverage). Ejrrjs | What? 06:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I have just created User:UBX/mate for use in babel on user pages. -- WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 08:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Since in Spanish the noun always precedes the adjective, the literal translation for "yerba mate" would not be "herb cup" but "cup herb", which would probably make more sense anyway.
So I fixed it. -unsigned
Is the Wikipede holding a mate? -- Logotu 18:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
If my memory serves me correctly, mate was originaly drunk among cowboys and/or labourers coming from Uruguay? to work in Argentina. It has long been associated with th gaucho culture (which would explain why the gourds are traditionaly made from bull scrotums). This should be included in the article, no? - Sfacets 04:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
It would also be nice to get a map of the zone of cultivation of the yerba maté. There are some on the internet but I'm not sure about copyright issues for the ones available in English, which are on commercial websites. - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I find that the article almost exclude Brazilian mate drinking - which is exatly the same, but, for example, with different names. I added a link to Chimarrão a page that is exaclty the opposite: deliberatly ignores Argentine/Uruguayan/Paraguayan mate. I am suggesting to make this page reasonably regard all national versions, adding for example Brazilian name of bomba along with bombilla, and then even delete the other. I will soon start any corrections I find necessary, and any help is wanted. - El Chemaniaco 17:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit by an anonymous user changing "friends" into "mates" underlines why it would be a good idea to include a pronunciation guide... thoughts? Sfacets 10:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know whether this article plagiarizes The Tao of Tea or vice versa, but some of the text in this article matches http://www.taooftea.com/shop11-Yerba_Mate.html word for word. For example, the section starting "From reports of personal experience with mate ..." and continuing through "... and a stimulating effect on myocardial (heart) tissue" is identical in both pages. No attribution is given on either page to cite the other.
Well as a person who spent his early life among old mate drinkers,I simply desire to point put that the now very extended habit of sweetening the mate with sugar has a similar story to that of cofee. Although I d hardly call myself an expert it is well known that seasoned drinkers point out that the sugar would actually kill the flavor of a quality made coffee,so it happens with Mate. Also,mate in Buenos Aires only became popular again not too many years ago (say perhaps 7 or 9),causing unexperienced people(mainly youngsters and teens) who not only lacked the knowledge of how to properly heat the water but were also rather unaccostumed to the sour and acid flavour of mate.In the end they "covered" the flavor with sugar. I still remember back in secondary on an outing with people from the school,they had brought termos and yerba to make mate,not only did they boil the water and added too much sugar but they also didnt know when the yerba got "lavada" ("washed",that is,it means it has lost flavor and the mate has to be cleansed and refilled).The same situation has happened and still happens a lot to me. Now why would I tell you a little boring tale from my teenhood?I found out many anglo-americans&brits (and even other european people) have "learned" or "met" mate through people such as the ones I mentioned,and so carry a misconception of how this concoction is properly fashioned.
On a final note,I noticed at the initial part of the article saying the waters is boiled and then mixed with fresh/cold water to get the right temperature. I could be wrong,but far as experience tells me (and believe me,I drink a lot) this is done as a "fix" when the water has boiled and one doesnt wants to go over the whole process of refilling and heating the kettle again. At least from what I've seen the proper temperature is at "primer herbor" ("first boil"),roughly a short fraction of time before the water starts boiling. I don t feel yet with the intellectual authority to modify this article so I ask of you to ponder this post.
ºP.S.:This has probably been said before but there are some differences in the way wich argentines in general (although the "litoraleños",for obvious geographical and cultural reasons do it in a very similar fashion to the neighboruing countries) prepare and even produce the mate in comparison to uruguayans and paraguayans(brazilians as well I suppose) Paraguayans are known to add and/or mix it with Tererè Uruguayans produce the yerba in a different way,rhe resulting product being a somewhat more grinded variation - El Gostro 05:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Although the conservation box lists yerba mate as being near threatened, there is no mention of conservation issues or threats in the article. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it overharvested in the wild? Does the near threatened apply only to wild populations, or does it include cultivated plants? Thanks Justinleif 20:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I reverted this addition:
Though apparantly not proven, it is possible, through three of the stereoactive nitrogen centers for caffeine to have up to 8 stereoisomers, much as in the simple case of ephedrine and pseudoephidrine [4]
The reference actually explains:
- Han-Kwang ( t) 15:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)... However, pyramidal nitrogen is normally not configurationally stable. It rapidly inverts its configuration (equilibrium arrows) [...] In any event, nitrogen groups such as this, if present in a compound, do not contribute to isolable stereoisomers.
Last I checked "synergize" was not a bio-chemical reaction, I think this should be changed to something more precise (and has an actual meaning outside the marketing world, where it still doesn't really have a meaning). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.8.143 ( talk) 13:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
The current article reads:
"Mate contains both caffeine and theobromine (which antagonize adenosine receptors) and reduces the body production of adenosine in the blood (prolongs half life of ATP, ADP, and AMP). These two processes will synergize to provide a much cleaner stimulation than a simple dose of caffeine (only blocking adenosine receptors)."
What does "cleaner stimulation" mean? Is the stimulation more effective? Does the stimulation not cause as much jitteriness/jumpiness/twitchiness/whatever you want to call it? — a thing 20:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I've been looking around online for potential downsides of Mate in pill form(specific), but I can't seem to find anything. The reason for this is due to my belief that in tea form the Mate would get absorbed much faster into the body (blood vessels in the mouth and being a liquid). So I'm thinking this might be a increased affect on oral cancer and neck cancer and the list. Absorption rates and potential intestinal problems is what is on my mind should solid Mate enter the body.- Trancor ( talk) 02:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
The article could use some discussion of the common adulterants: Ilex dumosa var. guaranina, I. brevicuspis, I. theezans, I. affinis, I. cognata, I. microdonta, I. pseudobuxus, I. brasiliensis, I. taubertiana, I. chamædryfolia, I. integerrima, I. amara. It's especially important to note that adulteration has apparently been a continuing problem throughout the history of maté harvesting, can dramatically affect the nutritional and medicinal effects of maté, and tends to increase the bitterness of maté blends. Also, Roble Tucumano ( I. argentina) is a related species in Argentina and Bolivia that is almost a "decaf" maté - it produces theobromine but no caffeine.
Thing is, I'm not sure about the specifics of the different varieties and don't want to just list them in the article. Some species like I. amara and I. dumosa are sometimes listed as being yerba maté. Any knowledgeable botanists or Latin Americans know the differences or different uses of these varieties? - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
An abstract for a study of antioxidant properties of yerba maté and related species; Another metastudy, particularly particularly problems with current esophagial and bladder cancer studies; A third - probably better for the maté article, about the correlation of stems with bitterness and caffeine content. - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Don't know if we bother to include these, but synonyms for I. paraguariensis include
Ilex paraguariensis, St. Hil. (1822 & 1833); I. Mate, St. Hil. (1826); I. paraguayensis, Hooker, fil.; I. paraguensis, D. Don.; I. paraguariensis, α, obtusifolia, Mart.; β, acutifolia, Mart.; Cassine Gongonha, Raben.; C. Gouguba, Guibourt; Chomelia amara, Vell.
Also, the article could use some discussion of the accepted botanical varieties (I. paraguariensis var. paraguariensis is straight maté, but there's also var. vestita in Uruguay and var. acutifolia, angustifolia, euneura, genuina, guaranina, latifolia, longifolia, sincorensis, and ulei elsewhere) and forms (I. paraguariensis f. confusa, dasyprionata, domestica, latifolia, microphylla, parvifolia, pubescens, and sorbilis.) Not sure what all of the distinctions between these are, though, or their properties, distribution, or use. - LlywelynII ( talk) 15:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
(From User talk:Hankwang) You reverted my addition of this to the article on Yerba Mate, saying it is "one big advertisement." Are you claiming it is a commercial advertisement? I can't find anything commercial in it at all. IMHO it is full of useful information about Yerba Mate, from a specialist organization in the field. Please be more specific about your objection. Lou Sander ( talk) 19:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
The article says "In English-speaking countries, the proper spelling is yerba maté (with an accented é)." This is followed by two very general references to print dictionaries and two simple references from online dictionaries. A bit later, the article says "The spelling mate is commonly used in English, though.," and somebody is asking for a citation.
I offer this from Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged, 2002, which is a pretty authoritative dictionary for American English:
It seems to me that an unabridged, authoritative reliable source is telling us, in great detail, that maté and mate are equally valid English spellings of the word. I propose that the final paragraph of the "Nomenclature" section be replaced with a paragraph stating that fact, and including a detailed reference to the material in the indented paragraphs above. It will also need to present the English pronunciation. Skyrocket654 ( talk) 03:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I was curious about Mate’s history and discovered that actually wikipedia’s article about presents a different version, without explicit sources, about who was the botanist who first catalogued it. On Wikipedia, currently, we have the following: “It was first scientifically classified by Swiss botanist Moses Bertoni, who settled in Paraguay in 1895. “ While on http://www.museuparanaense.pr.gov.br/modules/conteudo/conteudo.php?conteudo=62 (Parana State Museum’s webpage) we have: “A erva-mate foi classificada em 1820 pelo botânico francês Saint-Hilaire, após observar os ervais nativos em uma fazenda nas proximidades de Curitiba” (The Erva-mate was catalogued by the French botanist Saint-Hilare in 1820, after observing the native herbs in a farm near to Curitiba). -- DanielMalanski ( talk) 16:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I deleted a 2-paragraph section entitled "Possible MAOI Activity". The claim's source was a 2005 US patent, a document which cites no documented evidence for this putative effect other than the author's own research. I cannot find any peer-reviewed scientific publications corroborating the claim that mate is an MAO inhibitor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trueno Peinado ( talk • contribs) 04:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This article needs to either a) always use "maté", or always use "mate" (italicized), and stop mix-'n'-matching between spellings from one sentence or another and also stop using "mate", which is a completely different word in English. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 20:03, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Original link to http://www.mundomatero.com/yerba/Chemical-Features.html gives a 404.
I found the new location by going to the home page of Mundo Matero, but it then links to www gratisweb com /gif_animados/yerba/Chemical-Features.html which is blacklisted.
However, I also found the original source:
Valduga, Eunice. Chemical and anatomical characterization of the Ilex paraguariensis leaf Saint Hilaire and some species used to adulterate the yerba mate. Thesis of Post-graduation presented in the University of Paraná, Curitiba, in 1995.
at http://ojs.c3sl.ufpr.br/ojs2/index.php/alimentos/article/view/14033/9447
Unfortunately, it is in Portuguese.
I'm going to go ahead and correct the link to the original source, but I would like to know what is the preferred approach in a situation such as this, where the original source in not in English.
Thanks. Bearhair ( talk) 01:52, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm rather amused by the fact some people claim in this talk page that maté is an English word. I know of no words in English that have accents, except those that were copied from romance languages and had said accent in the original language, e.g. née, which is French for "born" (for females) and is used in English to indicate the so-called maiden name of a married woman.
I call upon the people discussing the matter on this talk page for an explanation on how an English word can have an accent when the original language does not, without having hypercorrection issues. Please discuss that regardless of whatever dictionary says the correct spelling of the word is or the meaning of x or y in Spanish or Portuguese or whatever. The fact this is an article about an English-language term automatically kills both the POV of other languages and the POV of dictionaries. I remind everyone that language is a dynamic being that dictionaries have no control upon; if it were otherwise, we'd all be speaking the same languages people spoke three thousand years ago.
Thanks. Vítor Cassol ( talk) 08:38, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
EDIT: I would also like to point out that many words, e.g. anime are spelled without an acute accent regardless of the fact the final e is pronounced. English has no such thing as accents to distinguish between two ways of pronouncing a word, and if it did, it'd want enough kinds of accents to make a whole new language out of it. The fact colonel is pronounced differently than one would guess does not give it accents.
Thanks. Vítor Cassol ( talk) 08:43, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I also agree, but it looks like Oxford is God here. "Language is fluid", they say, until a Brit gets involved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.23.130.170 ( talk) 03:41, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
"One difference between mate drinking in Uruguay and Argentina is that in Uruguay, the water in contained in a vacuum flask, "Termo", while in Argentina it is usually contained in a "pava" (kettle). This is the reason people in Uruguay tend to drink mate in the open air whereas Argentinian people usually drink mate in their homes where they can keep their kettle hot."
I found this statment completely contradicting to my experience after living in Buenos Aires for a couple of years. Throughout my daily routine of meeting new people every day as a missionary, not once can I ever recall anyone using anything but a thermos to store their hot water. Many times I met with people at their homes, but rather than drink mate inside they would usually insist on drinking it outside with a thermos. However, this statement in the article makes me think that either the author accidentally got the 2 cultures mixed up (I don't know anything about the culture in Uruguay) or this must be a cultural difference specific to Beunos Aires as opposed to other parts of Argentina. Can anyone confirm either of these speculations? Viper5030 ( talk) 03:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Why Piporé is not included? Quit spread even in Europe... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.51.139.46 ( talk) 09:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Since mate contains such high levels of caffeine/ mateine, taking it in super large doses (for example 50 cups worth a day) for long periods of time (weeks or months) can cause a caffeine overdose. This can trigger seizures among many other side effects. So if you are trying to ween yourself off of other types of stimulants with mate, be careful! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.132.42 ( talk) 19:46, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
If you are drinking 50 cups of any liquid a day you are likely going to get hyponatremia.
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The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 05:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Yerba maté →
Yerba mate – Per discussion, it seems "maté" is found in dictionaries, but almost never in the wild. Common English usage is clearly "mate". This can be clearly seen with a Google search (note that point 7 of
WP:GOOGLE#Search engine tests says that search engines are useful for "Identifying the names used for things (including alternative names and terminology)"). When I
search Google for "yerba maté|mate" (with the United States as my location), only three of the top 50 results (including Wikipedia) use "yerba maté". Wikipedia "Maté" should be listed as an alternative spelling, of course, but Wikipedia is not ruled by dictionaries. relisted -
Mike Cline (
talk) 14:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC) -
Afiler (
talk)
04:15, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
How many litres of drink can be done with 1kg of Yerba Mate?
I've added a comprehensive (though somewhat hastily-written) guide to how mate is traditionally prepared with a gourd and bombilla, as well as adding an excellent resource on the same to the External Links (among a couple other relevant links). My sense is that such discussion should likely be separated from the discussion of mate paraphernalia, but unfortunately I'm off to bed and am unable to take any further time to pry apart those two very intertwined items.
What are your thoughts about splitting the "Mate drinking" section into two, so as to separate any sort of procedural guide from discussion of mate's more tangible elements? - SeekerOfWisdumb 13:21, 26 April 2005 (UTC)
I think the material on terere should be extended, or even (if enaugh can be put together) a separate article should be created.-- Lacrymology 08:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm Chilean and a regular mate drinking, yes I'm from magallanes. Anyway, I don't think that drinking yerba mate in Chiloé and Magallanes in just because of Argentinian influence as it's stated in the article. It's better to say that it is something that has been lost in other regions of Chile (anyways in Araucanía, Los Lagos and other rural zones of chile it is still popular). In colonial times it was a costume much more widespread. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaniloVilicic ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
i think that curing the mate is a very important topic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.71.92 ( talk) 22:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The article says: The leaves, popularly called "herb" (Spanish: yerba, Portuguese: erva)..
Does anyone in any place actually call them "herb"? (I've never heard this, even in English it's usually yerba, isn't it?). Or is it just trying to explain what the Spanish and Portuguese words mean? I would prefer something like: The leaves, popularly referred to as "yerba", meaning "herb", (Portuguese: erva).. but I thought I'd bring it up here first in case there is some reason it was done this way.
MsBatfish (
talk)
10:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
The section on health effects must use either review articles or major textbooks as refs. Primary research is not appropriate. Will work on removing non reviews in the next few days.
As the following ref is completely useless thus removed. We need a articles title and year of publication
In an investigation of mate antioxidant activity, there was a correlation found between content of caffeoyl-derivatives and antioxidant capacity (AOC). [1] Amongst a group of Ilex species, Ilex paraguariensis antioxidant activity was the highest. [1]
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 03:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
This page in a nutshell: Ideal sources for biomedical material include general or systematic reviews in reliable, third-party, published sources, such as reputable medical journals, widely recognised standard textbooks written by experts in a field, or medical guidelines and position statements from nationally or internationally recognised expert bodies. |
With respect to the above ref can anyone provide a PMID, article title, journal name and date of publication? It is just a link to a publishing house. Also specifically we should not use primary research to contradict review articles which basically act to balance the sum of the literature. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 04:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
There are some good review articles with respect to cancer such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20036605 Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
This edit added the tag but no discussion related to which sources are unreliable. Will remove if it's not explained further. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:15, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
"Articles should rely on secondary sources whenever possible. For example, a review article, monograph, or textbook is better than a primary research paper." in this section [6] Review articles are available thus we should use them.-- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:38, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
This paragraph based on two studies in mice comes out and states "In most studies" which is original research as neither ref makes this claim, than does not even mention that the only evidence is in mice.
In most studies, [2] [3] Ilex paraguensis tea has been shown to lessen the tendency towards obesity induced by a high-starch diet.
Both of the papers are primary research. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
That's a very conclusive statement, backed up by... one study published in a nonmedical journal. The study abstract describes it as a single-blind trial with no control group, which is not a very convincing trial design. It is a human trial, and it had a reasonable study population (102 subjects in three study arms), but as medical research goes it's fairly weak evidence. Do we really want to stuff the article full of dubious claims with the bare minimum quality of sourcing? "It doesn't say we can't" is an extremely weak argument for including these sources. SDY ( talk) 22:36, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Consumption of mate (Ilex paraguariensis) improves serum lipid parameters in healthy dyslipidemic subjects and provides an additional LDL-cholesterol reduction in individuals on statin therapy.
References
I haven't looked closely at the whole section, but the subsections on Obesity, Cholesterol, E-NTPDase activity, and Antioxidants don't seem worthy of inclusion in the article. They are nothing but reports on individual studies, and they lack conclusions published independently of themselves. I don't see this as a matter of the nature or quality of the sources, but of whether this material even belongs in Wikipedia. We are an encyclopedia, not a summary of individual studies. Lou Sander ( talk) 16:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
It is a minor point, but a sentence, referring to synonyms for caffeine, under the heading Chemical composition and properties: Xanthines is perfectly understandable but nevertheless semantically nonsensical. A substance cannot be a synonym. Only a word can be a synonym. Thus, I propose changing the sentence to something like: The word "mateine" was previously used as a synonym for caffeine (like theine and guaranine).
The sentence currently reads: A substance previously called "mateine" is a synonym for caffeine (like theine and guaranine). 85.222.86.10 ( talk) 18:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was No clear Consensus to move Mdann52 ( talk) 15:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC) (non-admin)
Yerba mate →
Ilex paraguariensis – For the search term
"yerba mate" -wikipedia, the top 25 results Google returns refer to
mate (beverage). So the plant is incorrectly designated primary topic.
Coffee plant redirects to
Coffea, while
tea plant redirects to
Camellia sinensis. This proposal would create the same setup for mate. On
Merriam-Webster yerba maté directs to maté. The current split on Wiki implies that the terms "yerba mate" and "mate" refer to different things, thus misleading the reader. I suspect that many readers assume that this is Wiki's main article about the beverage. I note that Spanish Wiki uses the proposed form.
Kauffner (
talk)
14:38, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Oppose - My suggestion is similar to Vitor Cassol's above: Keep the current article title as is redirecting Ilex paraguaiensis here, as the lede here already contains a reference to the scientific name of the plant. Separate content between the plant (this article), and the mate beverage article as much as possible. The end result would be similar to what there is already with two main articles, one about the plant (this one, where the scientific nanme also redirects), and one about the beverage (no need about a third one, as the beverage one can include both hot or cold drinking modes). warshy talk 13:51, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I don'y know what the confusion is and I don't need Google to know what 'yerba mate' or 'mate (beverage)' is. Wikipedia is actually better. The first is the plant from which the leaves are used to make the beverage, which some want to call by the Latin scientific name, whereas others prefer it to be identified first and foremost by its popular native name, by which it is also identified by the people that live where it grows, and that use it daily as a staple of their lives and culture. The other is the beverage and the cultural rituals that surround its social uses. Where is the confusion here? Thanks. warshy talk 18:57, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
American Heritage Dictionary spells it correctly without the accent. I'm going to change it, since it reflects a post-colonial bias to misspell stubbornly a foreign-loan word. Peace. Why is mate spelled maté here? I've never seen it spelled this way before. I believe the right way of doing it is just as "mate", with a plain E. - Pilaf 03:39, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)
The word hierba is Spanish for grass or herb; yerba is a variant spelling of it which is quite common... ...Mate is from the Quechua mati, meaning "cup". Yerba mate is therefore literally the "cup herb".
yerba One entry found. Main Entry: yer·ba ma·té Pronunciation: \ˌyer-bə-ˈmä-ˌtā, ˌyər-\ Function: noun Etymology: American Spanish yerba mate, from yerba herb + mate maté Date: 1839
It might not be an English drink, but both Brazil and Argentina have significant numbers of Anglophone immigrants and descendants and other sojourners who would quickly come in contact with the beverage.
Of course the spelling maté could also suggest a French usage as well. The accent aigu is not a real accent in French and really isn't in English. The alternative to maté is either to pronounce it like 'matey' or to barbarically spell it *matay (the asterisk designating a form not in use, as in " *eated"). Such words as café, résumé, and protégé -- all originally French -- are in use in English and are properly so spelled.
I checked the French version of the article on yerba maté ... and the beverage and plant are identified as such -- literally. To be sure, the area in which yerba maté is grown and heavily consumed is not an officially Francophone area. But that said, both Argentina and Brazil have had substantial numbers of French immigrants and their descendants, and they surely use the accent aigu for the beverage and the drink when communicating in French. Such people would know about the beverage and the plant. The acute accent does not have the same significance in French as in Spanish.
The acute accent would be barbarous in Spanish or Portuguese prose, but it would be expected in French (where it isn't a real accent) and reasonable in English. Americans do not have a problem with the pronunciation of the Spanish e as in Laredo or even Tecate, let alone the barbarously-named Mission Viejo. Pbrower2a ( talk) 18:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
That's not how you spell it. There are hardly any Google hits with this spelling (either Spanish or English). Is this an April fools joke? I don't find it very funny since the page move cannot be undone without admin assistance. I have requested undoing this move on WP:AN. Han-Kwang 10:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
It is irrelevant whether it is used with an accent in Spanish, this is the English Wikipedia. This page is being monopolised by Spanish speaking users who speak English as a second or third language and had no idea how the word was spelled in English. Come to your senses people! —☆ CieloEstrellado 19:14, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't matter that this is the English Wikipedia. Writing it in English would not be correct spelling, regardless of what Wikipedia this is. The word is originally Spanish and thus must be written as it is written in said language. It would be idiotic to put something wrong just because dictionary-based bureaucracies demand it. In fact, writing it as it should be written would help people who don't know how it's spelled or pronounced to actually know how to say it. It would sound extremely awkward if somebody from an English speaking country just came to Argentina and asked for a drink of "maté". Needless to say, this English dictionary is wrong. As if it wasn't obvious enough, I think the best option is to leave it as Yerba Mate. Slartibartfast1992 03:09, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the only relevant question is whether we choose the official spelling (maté) or the most common spelling in English context (mate). The Spanish spelling convention is not relevant. Han-Kwang 17:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
All the major sources are agreed that the correct English spelling carries an acute accent. This article has been renamed from Yerba mate to Yerba maté as the result of a move request. -- Stemonitis 19:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC) Excuse me, but there was no concensus whatsoever to move the page, why did you move it and closed the discussion??? BTW, All mejor sources recognice Yerba mate as the most common spelling. -- Mariano( t/ c) 19:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC) Hypercorrection. User:Ejrrjs says What? 22:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
From a latecomer, some thoughts:
The motivation for use of the "é" rather than a plain "e" appears to be due to a perception that without the indicator, typical English speakers would pronounce the term improperly - ie. in a way which is uncommon, (!) or in a way which conforms to the way "mate" is pronounced in another context. There is plenty of variance in the way English vowels are pronounced, with British and American pronunciation providing some intrinsic (but not official) guidance. The term "Yerba mate" is from Spanish and Quechua (nice explanation here). The word "yerba" itself is spelled in a way which is inconsistent with most Spanish usage (see Y#Spanish) and appears to be borrowed spelling from English usage. Genuine native language purists could argue that it should be spelled hierba mate rather than yerba mate. But English spelling conventions don't conform to Spanish rules. Nor do they conform to English "authorities". Spelling is a convention based on custom. There is little chance that someone who is familiar with the term will pronounce it incorrectly. So what are those who want the accented spelling complaining about? There is in fact a convention in English which dismisses the usage of accents and other non-standard characters in favor of plain spelling. What is lost in precise pronunciation is made up for in ease of spelling - hence more consistent spelling. The major influence for the use of accents in English appears to come by way of French, not Spanish. In either case, the acceptance of the "native" spelling is largely dealt with by the simplest-spelling rule. Anything else is a matter of taste - for which all argument is practically pointless.
As to the spelling of "yerba," it is completely consistent with the Spanish usage among the people who consume it in the rioplatense area of South America. The word may well be etymologically derived from the word "hierba," originally a dialectal variation of it, but I doubt that any native speakers of the region even think of a connection between the two words. They are both used with mutually exclusive meanings. Yerba is yerba /ʒerβa/ and hierba is hierba /jerβa/ (herb). The spelling "yerba" comes directly from the local Spanish, not from any anglicisation of "hierba." The introductory sentence "The leaves, popularly called "herb" (Spanish: yerba, Portuguese: erva)" needs to be changed or deleted, as the Spanish really does not mean "herb," but specifically refers to yerba mate. When they want to say "herb" they use the word "hierba." I challenge anyone who speaks Spanish with people from the region to replace one term with the other, and then see how people react. They will either be confused or correct you. Cospelero ( talk)
In addition, I don't think the accent helps pronunciation at all - in fact I think its more confusing because the accent in English is used largely to indicate stress and intonation, not the proper vowel sound - "ma-te" is neither pronounced as "MA-te" nor as "ma-TE", but the accent on the e would suggest the latter. Compare with "máte" 0- which seems to indicates a sound closer to the proper one. The point of diacritics is to be of help - it doesnt serve its apparent intended purpose here. This is to say nothing of the problem of inconsistency accross languages as to the usage of diacritics - they are special to the language and often not transferable. (This is not the only case where Frenchies seem to want to assert Frenchified spelling - Talk:Langues d'oïl).
The other motivation is claimed consistency with defacto language authorities like Oxford's. Because spelling is largely a matter of convention - or choices between conventions - Wikipedia defers to our own policy - not to Oxford's. - Ste vertigo 21:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
The article says
In English-speaking countries, the spelling used is yerba maté (with an accented é)[four cites]—where the acute accent indicates that the e is not silent, and thus that the word should not be pronounced as the English word mate.
and yet every non-Italicized usage of the word is unaccented and the article is mistitled.
As posters have already pointed out, the OED, Random House, Merriam-Webster, American Heritage all have maté as the correct English spelling, and this despite the tendency (especially in America and especially with ALT codes annoying to come by) to disaccent any word that can stand it. The Columbia Electronic Encylopedia and Encyclopedia Britannica also use the accent. Although the standard English spelling may change in the future, it hasn't yet, and the Latin American posters correcting English spelling based on their personal experiences in (Rioplatense- & Portuguese-speaking) Latin America are (although in perfectly good faith) simply in error.
Insulting the Oxford scholars above is an extreme example of avoiding NPOV, but illustrative; albeit those scholars do use British English, their English should be understood by the poster to be more correct and common for England than his own. Similarly the American English dictionaries, &c. WP:Competence.
If mate were a modern borrowing and unlisted in any English dictionaries, it'd be different; but it is listed and accented é simply has a different effect in English words than it does in Spanish or Portuguese. Similarly, given its presence and usage in English, italicizing every instance is silly. I appreciate that the Uruguayan and Argentine posters are active on this page and more interested in a subject closer to their culture, but consensus really doesn't apply ( WP: Democracy) when you're disregarding all authorities on a subject and not using English. The confusion with Spanish "I kill" is amusing but aside the point, since this isn't the Spanish wiki.
So far, the only probative argument against the maté spelling is the googling of current internet usage performed by Han-Kwang above, but it represents WP:OR and is far outweighed by the unanimous voice of the dictionaries and other encyclopedias. (Additionally, his search applies only to online usage and did not exclude pages based on this one or pages treating mate as a foreign Spanish word without reference to its native English usage.)
All English usage in the article should have the accented é; all italicized references to the Spanish origin of the word should not. The contradiction of pointing out English usage and not following it should've been clear before now, but regardless it's really that simple. Edits will follow shortly, and hopefully people will read through the discussion and relevant policies before inducing a revert war, prior to the dictionaries changing their spellings of the word. - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Part of the revision history of this page is at (the incorrectly capitalized) Yerba Mate [2]. -- Koyaanis Qatsi 13:15 Jan 18, 2003 (UTC)
Many English words come from French and not Spanish. So café and cafe - I think most English speakers would say them the same and recognize them as so in context. I guess they would do so for maté and mate too. Just because there are a lot of Spanish speakers here, doesn't mean that we have to look at a Spanish origin. WE should also look at a French etymological path. In which case maté fits with café, outré and blasé very well. There do not seem to be good arguments why we should look to a Spanish etymological path which would be inconsistent with this French pattern. If anyone knows please give them.
The article on maté or mate as it now should probably be consistent with this one - it is not as of now:
[3] - can an editor fix them. I am sorry to say they will both need locking due to the intransigence and unreasonableness of many readers of wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.113.96.60 ( talk) 07:49, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
As KQ points out, all of the claims that mate is caffeine-free come from unreliable sources. The reference to the Florida study I found in a quote from Dr. Andrew Weil, who is about as far from a skeptic about such things as one can be and still get the M.D. If he doesn't buy the claims, then there's certainly no credibility to them, because he believes lots of "herbal/alternative medicine" things there's very little evidence for. - Lee Daniel Crocker
In 1843, Stenhouse found in mate an alkaloid and proved that it was, identical with caffeine.
It's been stated in several places on the web that Mateine is a stereo-isomer of Caffeine. Caffeine isn't stereo-isotopic. Simply put, Yerba Mate does contain caffeine. If you doubt this, ask anyone studying Pre-Med, or better still, ask an organic chemist at any university if Caffeine is stereo-isotopic, and you'll get an emphatic "NO". If you are trying to quit Caffeine, Yerba Mate is not an option. If you are looking for an alternative to coffee, you may find Yerba Mate beneficial. Hope this helps. - Edward D.
Regarding the mateine/caffeine confusion, I have often been quoted as the source for that mistake. The original article that contained that informaiton was first produced as a draft that was supposed to have been validated before publication. Unfortunately, it was published by a distributor of yerba mate in a pamphlet before I was able to verify the veracity Dr. Martin's statement (I have his quote in a letter, so his denial of that quote is in error). My first guess as to what would differentiate mateine from caffeine was that they must be stereoisomers; I have repeatedly rescinded that opinion once I learned of the impossiblity of this arrangement. It was meant to be a minor point in my monograph, one that would have been immediately discarded if it had not been prematurely published for all the world to see (which popularity, by the way, I find outrageous).
Having admitted my chemical error, however, I am more convinced today than ever, that the physiological and nutritional activity of mate is very different than those provided by coffee, gurana and kola nut. The healthful benefits of mate far outweigh any activity traceable to caffeine alone, and may, as I originally implied, be related to the particular constellation of xanthines and other nutrients found in mate.
It states in this article:
However, the net amount of caffeine in one preparation of yerba mate is typically quite high, in large part because the repeated filling of the mate with hot water is able to extract the highly-soluble xanthines extremely effectively. It is for this reason that one mate may be shared among several people and yet produce the desired stimulating effect in all of them.
But, according to my understanding, the high water solubility of caffeine (and other xanthines, I suppose) means that extended and repeated brewing does little to extract additional caffeine. Upton Tea Import's information on decaffeinated tea says the following:
Decaffeinating Your Own Tea
Caffeine is highly water soluble, and nearly 80% of the total caffeine content of the tea leaves will be extracted within the first 30 seconds of steeping. If you wish to "decaffeinate" your own tea, the process is simple. Pour boiling water over the tea leaves, and allow a maximum of a 30 second rinse. Empty this water off, and pour fresh boiling water over the rinsed leaves to brew for the prescribed time.
Although this was about tea, not yerba mate, I think we can assuming all plant materials lose their caffeine roughly equivalently... It sounds to me like the article's statement cannot be true -- either the xanthines are highly soluble and repeated filling & brewing extracts very little additional, or they are not highly soluble and repeated filling & brewing extracts significant additional amounts. -- Madprime 01:57, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Speaking as a decidedly non-expert, anglo-North American, I thought the consenus was that sugar should not be added. I have drunk maté for several years, but I have never used sugar myself. Also, might not the traditional ritual of passing the the gourd be mentioned? I always felt it was an interesting aspect of the whole thing. Silly, I suppose... - Sjfloat 14:57 26 May 2003 (UTC)
Minor terminology question... should we refer to Tea or Tisane/Herbal tea? - Logotu
Doesn't anyone have a picture of the plant?
Have converted this to my best reckoning, /jE@b{ ma:teI/. The replaced entry claimed it was pronounced /jE@bVh m{hteI/, which seems highly improbable
When I went to Rio de Janeiro the pronunciation I heard was more like "match", with an "ah" sound rhyming with "watch". Occasionally I heard the "e" on the end like the brand "Matte Leão" sounded like "motch-uh leeown". Has anyone else heard this pronunciation or is this maybe a regional pronunciation for Rio? ( Corby ( talk) 07:28, 24 December 2009 (UTC))
Why should the Spanish or Portuguese translations be of any relevance for the pronunciation if they aren't for the spelling? In English it is pronounced ma-TAY, because of the accent.-- 87.162.28.69 ( talk) 01:43, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm kind of doubtful of this new section. I've had mate for years, and I've never seen cobras, nor has my father seen spiders, nor my grandmother dancing demons. Theanthrope 22:01, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
increased focus is a form of hallucination — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.132.42 ( talk) 19:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
Some years back, I read a story about a South American politican who was killed while drinking a mate and driving. Supposedly, he hit a bump, and the bombilla was driven up through his soft palate and into his brain. Now I can't find the story anywhere. I've Googled any number of terms to no success. Does this ring a bell for anyone? - 206.136.148.148 18:34, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I just searched Pub Med for Yerba Mate found an article stating that "Ardisia and mate teas may thus share a public health potential as chemopreventive agents" So not Sure I buy the carcinogen bit.. Here's a link to the Abstract.. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15450404 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11213015&dopt=Abstract http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/104524990/ABSTRACT?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
ejrrjs- Maté contains caffeine; furthermore, it is used as a stimulant like coffee, tea, coca tea, and so on. That clearly puts it into the Herbal & fungal drugs/medicines category. People don't just drink it for the taste, (although it is delicious!); they drink it for its other properties as well. my assumption is that you are reacting the negative connotation of "drug", which is understandable, but the category is "herbal and fungal drugs/medicines", which range from chamomile tea to coffee to ayahuasca/jage. the category is pretty heavy right now on the "drugs" with less of the "medicines", but this is temporary; healing poultices, psychoactives, and mild stimulants all have places there, as do st john's wort and a million other things. I've put maté back into the category, for all of the above reasons. Heah 17:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I subdivided the Drinking mate section. It might be a bit overdivided now, but I felt the original was way too long, and less subdivition was unconsistent. I also added some paragraphs to that section that I would like to have revised for style-- Lacrymology 08:18:14, 2005-08-04 (UTC)
This article is truly great; as an argentinian I´m amazed that such a complete essay on mate could appear on Wikipedia :). However, I have one minor correction:
"University students in South America have reported to be unable to study unless they are drinking mate, and furthermore, that studying is sometimes just an excuse for drinking it."
I find this very doubtful. Unless some scientific/statistic evidence is provided, I w/uld regard this as hearsay. I´m a student at university and I´ve never seen people "unable to study" unless they have mate. It is the practical equivalent of someone not being able to study without coffee, which is a sign of addictive behaviour. Not common at all from my experience. But again, someone correct me if there´s any scientific evidence of this (a poll of some sorts). -unsigned
I can't find any information on drinking mate while pregnant on this page. Do pregnant women avoid drinking mate in South American countries? There are many many cautions against it on the web but I can't tell if it's commercial CYA (mainly from using it as a supplement), allopathic misinformation and alarmism or based on the shared experience of traditional societies or longstanding tradition. Also info about possible risks (if any) to nursing mothers and their infants would be helpful. Thanks.
I found this, for what is worth: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/135/5/1120 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.80.204.2 ( talk) 19:53, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is too long. I am wondering if we should leve the shrub alone and move the drink and drinking issues to Mate (beverage). Ejrrjs | What? 06:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
I have just created User:UBX/mate for use in babel on user pages. -- WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 08:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
Since in Spanish the noun always precedes the adjective, the literal translation for "yerba mate" would not be "herb cup" but "cup herb", which would probably make more sense anyway.
So I fixed it. -unsigned
Is the Wikipede holding a mate? -- Logotu 18:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
If my memory serves me correctly, mate was originaly drunk among cowboys and/or labourers coming from Uruguay? to work in Argentina. It has long been associated with th gaucho culture (which would explain why the gourds are traditionaly made from bull scrotums). This should be included in the article, no? - Sfacets 04:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
It would also be nice to get a map of the zone of cultivation of the yerba maté. There are some on the internet but I'm not sure about copyright issues for the ones available in English, which are on commercial websites. - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
I find that the article almost exclude Brazilian mate drinking - which is exatly the same, but, for example, with different names. I added a link to Chimarrão a page that is exaclty the opposite: deliberatly ignores Argentine/Uruguayan/Paraguayan mate. I am suggesting to make this page reasonably regard all national versions, adding for example Brazilian name of bomba along with bombilla, and then even delete the other. I will soon start any corrections I find necessary, and any help is wanted. - El Chemaniaco 17:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit by an anonymous user changing "friends" into "mates" underlines why it would be a good idea to include a pronunciation guide... thoughts? Sfacets 10:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't know whether this article plagiarizes The Tao of Tea or vice versa, but some of the text in this article matches http://www.taooftea.com/shop11-Yerba_Mate.html word for word. For example, the section starting "From reports of personal experience with mate ..." and continuing through "... and a stimulating effect on myocardial (heart) tissue" is identical in both pages. No attribution is given on either page to cite the other.
Well as a person who spent his early life among old mate drinkers,I simply desire to point put that the now very extended habit of sweetening the mate with sugar has a similar story to that of cofee. Although I d hardly call myself an expert it is well known that seasoned drinkers point out that the sugar would actually kill the flavor of a quality made coffee,so it happens with Mate. Also,mate in Buenos Aires only became popular again not too many years ago (say perhaps 7 or 9),causing unexperienced people(mainly youngsters and teens) who not only lacked the knowledge of how to properly heat the water but were also rather unaccostumed to the sour and acid flavour of mate.In the end they "covered" the flavor with sugar. I still remember back in secondary on an outing with people from the school,they had brought termos and yerba to make mate,not only did they boil the water and added too much sugar but they also didnt know when the yerba got "lavada" ("washed",that is,it means it has lost flavor and the mate has to be cleansed and refilled).The same situation has happened and still happens a lot to me. Now why would I tell you a little boring tale from my teenhood?I found out many anglo-americans&brits (and even other european people) have "learned" or "met" mate through people such as the ones I mentioned,and so carry a misconception of how this concoction is properly fashioned.
On a final note,I noticed at the initial part of the article saying the waters is boiled and then mixed with fresh/cold water to get the right temperature. I could be wrong,but far as experience tells me (and believe me,I drink a lot) this is done as a "fix" when the water has boiled and one doesnt wants to go over the whole process of refilling and heating the kettle again. At least from what I've seen the proper temperature is at "primer herbor" ("first boil"),roughly a short fraction of time before the water starts boiling. I don t feel yet with the intellectual authority to modify this article so I ask of you to ponder this post.
ºP.S.:This has probably been said before but there are some differences in the way wich argentines in general (although the "litoraleños",for obvious geographical and cultural reasons do it in a very similar fashion to the neighboruing countries) prepare and even produce the mate in comparison to uruguayans and paraguayans(brazilians as well I suppose) Paraguayans are known to add and/or mix it with Tererè Uruguayans produce the yerba in a different way,rhe resulting product being a somewhat more grinded variation - El Gostro 05:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Although the conservation box lists yerba mate as being near threatened, there is no mention of conservation issues or threats in the article. Does anyone know anything about this? Is it overharvested in the wild? Does the near threatened apply only to wild populations, or does it include cultivated plants? Thanks Justinleif 20:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I reverted this addition:
Though apparantly not proven, it is possible, through three of the stereoactive nitrogen centers for caffeine to have up to 8 stereoisomers, much as in the simple case of ephedrine and pseudoephidrine [4]
The reference actually explains:
- Han-Kwang ( t) 15:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)... However, pyramidal nitrogen is normally not configurationally stable. It rapidly inverts its configuration (equilibrium arrows) [...] In any event, nitrogen groups such as this, if present in a compound, do not contribute to isolable stereoisomers.
Last I checked "synergize" was not a bio-chemical reaction, I think this should be changed to something more precise (and has an actual meaning outside the marketing world, where it still doesn't really have a meaning). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.230.8.143 ( talk) 13:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
The current article reads:
"Mate contains both caffeine and theobromine (which antagonize adenosine receptors) and reduces the body production of adenosine in the blood (prolongs half life of ATP, ADP, and AMP). These two processes will synergize to provide a much cleaner stimulation than a simple dose of caffeine (only blocking adenosine receptors)."
What does "cleaner stimulation" mean? Is the stimulation more effective? Does the stimulation not cause as much jitteriness/jumpiness/twitchiness/whatever you want to call it? — a thing 20:53, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I've been looking around online for potential downsides of Mate in pill form(specific), but I can't seem to find anything. The reason for this is due to my belief that in tea form the Mate would get absorbed much faster into the body (blood vessels in the mouth and being a liquid). So I'm thinking this might be a increased affect on oral cancer and neck cancer and the list. Absorption rates and potential intestinal problems is what is on my mind should solid Mate enter the body.- Trancor ( talk) 02:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
The article could use some discussion of the common adulterants: Ilex dumosa var. guaranina, I. brevicuspis, I. theezans, I. affinis, I. cognata, I. microdonta, I. pseudobuxus, I. brasiliensis, I. taubertiana, I. chamædryfolia, I. integerrima, I. amara. It's especially important to note that adulteration has apparently been a continuing problem throughout the history of maté harvesting, can dramatically affect the nutritional and medicinal effects of maté, and tends to increase the bitterness of maté blends. Also, Roble Tucumano ( I. argentina) is a related species in Argentina and Bolivia that is almost a "decaf" maté - it produces theobromine but no caffeine.
Thing is, I'm not sure about the specifics of the different varieties and don't want to just list them in the article. Some species like I. amara and I. dumosa are sometimes listed as being yerba maté. Any knowledgeable botanists or Latin Americans know the differences or different uses of these varieties? - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
An abstract for a study of antioxidant properties of yerba maté and related species; Another metastudy, particularly particularly problems with current esophagial and bladder cancer studies; A third - probably better for the maté article, about the correlation of stems with bitterness and caffeine content. - LlywelynII ( talk) 13:20, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Don't know if we bother to include these, but synonyms for I. paraguariensis include
Ilex paraguariensis, St. Hil. (1822 & 1833); I. Mate, St. Hil. (1826); I. paraguayensis, Hooker, fil.; I. paraguensis, D. Don.; I. paraguariensis, α, obtusifolia, Mart.; β, acutifolia, Mart.; Cassine Gongonha, Raben.; C. Gouguba, Guibourt; Chomelia amara, Vell.
Also, the article could use some discussion of the accepted botanical varieties (I. paraguariensis var. paraguariensis is straight maté, but there's also var. vestita in Uruguay and var. acutifolia, angustifolia, euneura, genuina, guaranina, latifolia, longifolia, sincorensis, and ulei elsewhere) and forms (I. paraguariensis f. confusa, dasyprionata, domestica, latifolia, microphylla, parvifolia, pubescens, and sorbilis.) Not sure what all of the distinctions between these are, though, or their properties, distribution, or use. - LlywelynII ( talk) 15:04, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
(From User talk:Hankwang) You reverted my addition of this to the article on Yerba Mate, saying it is "one big advertisement." Are you claiming it is a commercial advertisement? I can't find anything commercial in it at all. IMHO it is full of useful information about Yerba Mate, from a specialist organization in the field. Please be more specific about your objection. Lou Sander ( talk) 19:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
The article says "In English-speaking countries, the proper spelling is yerba maté (with an accented é)." This is followed by two very general references to print dictionaries and two simple references from online dictionaries. A bit later, the article says "The spelling mate is commonly used in English, though.," and somebody is asking for a citation.
I offer this from Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language Unabridged, 2002, which is a pretty authoritative dictionary for American English:
It seems to me that an unabridged, authoritative reliable source is telling us, in great detail, that maté and mate are equally valid English spellings of the word. I propose that the final paragraph of the "Nomenclature" section be replaced with a paragraph stating that fact, and including a detailed reference to the material in the indented paragraphs above. It will also need to present the English pronunciation. Skyrocket654 ( talk) 03:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
I was curious about Mate’s history and discovered that actually wikipedia’s article about presents a different version, without explicit sources, about who was the botanist who first catalogued it. On Wikipedia, currently, we have the following: “It was first scientifically classified by Swiss botanist Moses Bertoni, who settled in Paraguay in 1895. “ While on http://www.museuparanaense.pr.gov.br/modules/conteudo/conteudo.php?conteudo=62 (Parana State Museum’s webpage) we have: “A erva-mate foi classificada em 1820 pelo botânico francês Saint-Hilaire, após observar os ervais nativos em uma fazenda nas proximidades de Curitiba” (The Erva-mate was catalogued by the French botanist Saint-Hilare in 1820, after observing the native herbs in a farm near to Curitiba). -- DanielMalanski ( talk) 16:57, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I deleted a 2-paragraph section entitled "Possible MAOI Activity". The claim's source was a 2005 US patent, a document which cites no documented evidence for this putative effect other than the author's own research. I cannot find any peer-reviewed scientific publications corroborating the claim that mate is an MAO inhibitor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trueno Peinado ( talk • contribs) 04:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
This article needs to either a) always use "maté", or always use "mate" (italicized), and stop mix-'n'-matching between spellings from one sentence or another and also stop using "mate", which is a completely different word in English. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ Contribs. 20:03, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Original link to http://www.mundomatero.com/yerba/Chemical-Features.html gives a 404.
I found the new location by going to the home page of Mundo Matero, but it then links to www gratisweb com /gif_animados/yerba/Chemical-Features.html which is blacklisted.
However, I also found the original source:
Valduga, Eunice. Chemical and anatomical characterization of the Ilex paraguariensis leaf Saint Hilaire and some species used to adulterate the yerba mate. Thesis of Post-graduation presented in the University of Paraná, Curitiba, in 1995.
at http://ojs.c3sl.ufpr.br/ojs2/index.php/alimentos/article/view/14033/9447
Unfortunately, it is in Portuguese.
I'm going to go ahead and correct the link to the original source, but I would like to know what is the preferred approach in a situation such as this, where the original source in not in English.
Thanks. Bearhair ( talk) 01:52, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm rather amused by the fact some people claim in this talk page that maté is an English word. I know of no words in English that have accents, except those that were copied from romance languages and had said accent in the original language, e.g. née, which is French for "born" (for females) and is used in English to indicate the so-called maiden name of a married woman.
I call upon the people discussing the matter on this talk page for an explanation on how an English word can have an accent when the original language does not, without having hypercorrection issues. Please discuss that regardless of whatever dictionary says the correct spelling of the word is or the meaning of x or y in Spanish or Portuguese or whatever. The fact this is an article about an English-language term automatically kills both the POV of other languages and the POV of dictionaries. I remind everyone that language is a dynamic being that dictionaries have no control upon; if it were otherwise, we'd all be speaking the same languages people spoke three thousand years ago.
Thanks. Vítor Cassol ( talk) 08:38, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
EDIT: I would also like to point out that many words, e.g. anime are spelled without an acute accent regardless of the fact the final e is pronounced. English has no such thing as accents to distinguish between two ways of pronouncing a word, and if it did, it'd want enough kinds of accents to make a whole new language out of it. The fact colonel is pronounced differently than one would guess does not give it accents.
Thanks. Vítor Cassol ( talk) 08:43, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I also agree, but it looks like Oxford is God here. "Language is fluid", they say, until a Brit gets involved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.23.130.170 ( talk) 03:41, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
"One difference between mate drinking in Uruguay and Argentina is that in Uruguay, the water in contained in a vacuum flask, "Termo", while in Argentina it is usually contained in a "pava" (kettle). This is the reason people in Uruguay tend to drink mate in the open air whereas Argentinian people usually drink mate in their homes where they can keep their kettle hot."
I found this statment completely contradicting to my experience after living in Buenos Aires for a couple of years. Throughout my daily routine of meeting new people every day as a missionary, not once can I ever recall anyone using anything but a thermos to store their hot water. Many times I met with people at their homes, but rather than drink mate inside they would usually insist on drinking it outside with a thermos. However, this statement in the article makes me think that either the author accidentally got the 2 cultures mixed up (I don't know anything about the culture in Uruguay) or this must be a cultural difference specific to Beunos Aires as opposed to other parts of Argentina. Can anyone confirm either of these speculations? Viper5030 ( talk) 03:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
Why Piporé is not included? Quit spread even in Europe... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.51.139.46 ( talk) 09:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Since mate contains such high levels of caffeine/ mateine, taking it in super large doses (for example 50 cups worth a day) for long periods of time (weeks or months) can cause a caffeine overdose. This can trigger seizures among many other side effects. So if you are trying to ween yourself off of other types of stimulants with mate, be careful! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.132.42 ( talk) 19:46, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
If you are drinking 50 cups of any liquid a day you are likely going to get hyponatremia.
An image used in this article, File:Erva Mate Plantation Brasil.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status
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The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 05:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Yerba maté →
Yerba mate – Per discussion, it seems "maté" is found in dictionaries, but almost never in the wild. Common English usage is clearly "mate". This can be clearly seen with a Google search (note that point 7 of
WP:GOOGLE#Search engine tests says that search engines are useful for "Identifying the names used for things (including alternative names and terminology)"). When I
search Google for "yerba maté|mate" (with the United States as my location), only three of the top 50 results (including Wikipedia) use "yerba maté". Wikipedia "Maté" should be listed as an alternative spelling, of course, but Wikipedia is not ruled by dictionaries. relisted -
Mike Cline (
talk) 14:15, 2 December 2011 (UTC) -
Afiler (
talk)
04:15, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
How many litres of drink can be done with 1kg of Yerba Mate?
I've added a comprehensive (though somewhat hastily-written) guide to how mate is traditionally prepared with a gourd and bombilla, as well as adding an excellent resource on the same to the External Links (among a couple other relevant links). My sense is that such discussion should likely be separated from the discussion of mate paraphernalia, but unfortunately I'm off to bed and am unable to take any further time to pry apart those two very intertwined items.
What are your thoughts about splitting the "Mate drinking" section into two, so as to separate any sort of procedural guide from discussion of mate's more tangible elements? - SeekerOfWisdumb 13:21, 26 April 2005 (UTC)
I think the material on terere should be extended, or even (if enaugh can be put together) a separate article should be created.-- Lacrymology 08:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm Chilean and a regular mate drinking, yes I'm from magallanes. Anyway, I don't think that drinking yerba mate in Chiloé and Magallanes in just because of Argentinian influence as it's stated in the article. It's better to say that it is something that has been lost in other regions of Chile (anyways in Araucanía, Los Lagos and other rural zones of chile it is still popular). In colonial times it was a costume much more widespread. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaniloVilicic ( talk • contribs) 00:34, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
i think that curing the mate is a very important topic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.255.71.92 ( talk) 22:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The article says: The leaves, popularly called "herb" (Spanish: yerba, Portuguese: erva)..
Does anyone in any place actually call them "herb"? (I've never heard this, even in English it's usually yerba, isn't it?). Or is it just trying to explain what the Spanish and Portuguese words mean? I would prefer something like: The leaves, popularly referred to as "yerba", meaning "herb", (Portuguese: erva).. but I thought I'd bring it up here first in case there is some reason it was done this way.
MsBatfish (
talk)
10:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
The section on health effects must use either review articles or major textbooks as refs. Primary research is not appropriate. Will work on removing non reviews in the next few days.
As the following ref is completely useless thus removed. We need a articles title and year of publication
In an investigation of mate antioxidant activity, there was a correlation found between content of caffeoyl-derivatives and antioxidant capacity (AOC). [1] Amongst a group of Ilex species, Ilex paraguariensis antioxidant activity was the highest. [1]
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 03:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
This page in a nutshell: Ideal sources for biomedical material include general or systematic reviews in reliable, third-party, published sources, such as reputable medical journals, widely recognised standard textbooks written by experts in a field, or medical guidelines and position statements from nationally or internationally recognised expert bodies. |
With respect to the above ref can anyone provide a PMID, article title, journal name and date of publication? It is just a link to a publishing house. Also specifically we should not use primary research to contradict review articles which basically act to balance the sum of the literature. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 04:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
There are some good review articles with respect to cancer such as http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20036605 Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
This edit added the tag but no discussion related to which sources are unreliable. Will remove if it's not explained further. -- Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:15, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
"Articles should rely on secondary sources whenever possible. For example, a review article, monograph, or textbook is better than a primary research paper." in this section [6] Review articles are available thus we should use them.-- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:38, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
This paragraph based on two studies in mice comes out and states "In most studies" which is original research as neither ref makes this claim, than does not even mention that the only evidence is in mice.
In most studies, [2] [3] Ilex paraguensis tea has been shown to lessen the tendency towards obesity induced by a high-starch diet.
Both of the papers are primary research. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
That's a very conclusive statement, backed up by... one study published in a nonmedical journal. The study abstract describes it as a single-blind trial with no control group, which is not a very convincing trial design. It is a human trial, and it had a reasonable study population (102 subjects in three study arms), but as medical research goes it's fairly weak evidence. Do we really want to stuff the article full of dubious claims with the bare minimum quality of sourcing? "It doesn't say we can't" is an extremely weak argument for including these sources. SDY ( talk) 22:36, 11 December 2011 (UTC)Consumption of mate (Ilex paraguariensis) improves serum lipid parameters in healthy dyslipidemic subjects and provides an additional LDL-cholesterol reduction in individuals on statin therapy.
References
I haven't looked closely at the whole section, but the subsections on Obesity, Cholesterol, E-NTPDase activity, and Antioxidants don't seem worthy of inclusion in the article. They are nothing but reports on individual studies, and they lack conclusions published independently of themselves. I don't see this as a matter of the nature or quality of the sources, but of whether this material even belongs in Wikipedia. We are an encyclopedia, not a summary of individual studies. Lou Sander ( talk) 16:02, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
It is a minor point, but a sentence, referring to synonyms for caffeine, under the heading Chemical composition and properties: Xanthines is perfectly understandable but nevertheless semantically nonsensical. A substance cannot be a synonym. Only a word can be a synonym. Thus, I propose changing the sentence to something like: The word "mateine" was previously used as a synonym for caffeine (like theine and guaranine).
The sentence currently reads: A substance previously called "mateine" is a synonym for caffeine (like theine and guaranine). 85.222.86.10 ( talk) 18:06, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was No clear Consensus to move Mdann52 ( talk) 15:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC) (non-admin)
Yerba mate →
Ilex paraguariensis – For the search term
"yerba mate" -wikipedia, the top 25 results Google returns refer to
mate (beverage). So the plant is incorrectly designated primary topic.
Coffee plant redirects to
Coffea, while
tea plant redirects to
Camellia sinensis. This proposal would create the same setup for mate. On
Merriam-Webster yerba maté directs to maté. The current split on Wiki implies that the terms "yerba mate" and "mate" refer to different things, thus misleading the reader. I suspect that many readers assume that this is Wiki's main article about the beverage. I note that Spanish Wiki uses the proposed form.
Kauffner (
talk)
14:38, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Oppose - My suggestion is similar to Vitor Cassol's above: Keep the current article title as is redirecting Ilex paraguaiensis here, as the lede here already contains a reference to the scientific name of the plant. Separate content between the plant (this article), and the mate beverage article as much as possible. The end result would be similar to what there is already with two main articles, one about the plant (this one, where the scientific nanme also redirects), and one about the beverage (no need about a third one, as the beverage one can include both hot or cold drinking modes). warshy talk 13:51, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I don'y know what the confusion is and I don't need Google to know what 'yerba mate' or 'mate (beverage)' is. Wikipedia is actually better. The first is the plant from which the leaves are used to make the beverage, which some want to call by the Latin scientific name, whereas others prefer it to be identified first and foremost by its popular native name, by which it is also identified by the people that live where it grows, and that use it daily as a staple of their lives and culture. The other is the beverage and the cultural rituals that surround its social uses. Where is the confusion here? Thanks. warshy talk 18:57, 14 July 2012 (UTC)