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Can more information be provided as to the design, layout, and construction of the shrine? The article seems heavy in politics but very light in architecture. For example, how does it compare with the war memorials of other nations?
Why no controversy section?
Given that the shrine is best known for enshrining convicted war criminals and serving as a gathering point for Japanese ultranationalists, it seems quite strange that this article makes no mention of these facts at all.
120.17.39.216 (
talk)
03:29, 13 March 2024 (UTC)reply
yes this is odd. There is also no mention of its continued symbolic value to politics. With prime ministers or former prime ministers also choosing to visit or not to visit the shrine.
Tornbetween (
talk)
16:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If I had to guess, the idea was to split the building itself from the political storm surrounding it. Not sure if I agree with that process, but that's the status quo.
Couruu (
talk)
12:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Ah I see. As of now there is a small section of the article that covers 2 parts of the controversy article, the war criminal portion in great detail. Maybe it would be better to instead leave a reference to the
Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine article and add a small summary? I would be up to make this change when I am free. Of course it can always be reverted.
Tornbetween (
talk)
14:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
WP:UNDUE = according to wiki rules, "Generally, the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all, except perhaps in a "see also" to an article about those specific views. For example, the article on the
Earth does not directly mention modern support for the
flat Earth concept, the view of a distinct (and minuscule) minority; to do so would give undue weight to it." and
"Wikipedia should not present a dispute as if a view held by a small minority is as significant as the majority view. Views held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views (such as the flat Earth)"
The guidelines offer an excellent example of how to incorporate information regarding minority perspectives. the controversy surrounding the shrine is not a minority view. I don't understand why there is a separate article for information about the shrine's controversy. wikipedia is an encyclopedia designed to provide a wide variety of information, including information about sensitive topics. Shouldn't the two articles be merged?
Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine is 6,000 words of readable prose, while
Yasukuni Shrine itself is around 2,500 - combined, they would probably make up around 8,000 (eliminating redundancies). If merged, this article would become around 75% controversy - which is undue weight.
I do believe a solution similar to
Nestle would be appropriate - a controversy section outlining the main issues (that isn't buried under History), with a "main article" link to the other page.
Couruu (
talk)
09:19, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes. I agree, a nested controversy section linking to the larger article seems appropriate. I will get to work on this when I find the time after the semester has quieted down.
Tornbetween (
talk)
21:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
The subject of this article is
controversial and content may be in
dispute. When updating the article,
be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a
neutral point of view. Include
citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Japan-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to
participate, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project, participate in
relevant discussions, and see
lists of open tasks. Current time in Japan: 11:59, July 26, 2024 (
JST,
Reiwa 6) (Refresh)JapanWikipedia:WikiProject JapanTemplate:WikiProject JapanJapan-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
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Can more information be provided as to the design, layout, and construction of the shrine? The article seems heavy in politics but very light in architecture. For example, how does it compare with the war memorials of other nations?
Why no controversy section?
Given that the shrine is best known for enshrining convicted war criminals and serving as a gathering point for Japanese ultranationalists, it seems quite strange that this article makes no mention of these facts at all.
120.17.39.216 (
talk)
03:29, 13 March 2024 (UTC)reply
yes this is odd. There is also no mention of its continued symbolic value to politics. With prime ministers or former prime ministers also choosing to visit or not to visit the shrine.
Tornbetween (
talk)
16:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
If I had to guess, the idea was to split the building itself from the political storm surrounding it. Not sure if I agree with that process, but that's the status quo.
Couruu (
talk)
12:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Ah I see. As of now there is a small section of the article that covers 2 parts of the controversy article, the war criminal portion in great detail. Maybe it would be better to instead leave a reference to the
Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine article and add a small summary? I would be up to make this change when I am free. Of course it can always be reverted.
Tornbetween (
talk)
14:25, 25 April 2024 (UTC)reply
WP:UNDUE = according to wiki rules, "Generally, the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all, except perhaps in a "see also" to an article about those specific views. For example, the article on the
Earth does not directly mention modern support for the
flat Earth concept, the view of a distinct (and minuscule) minority; to do so would give undue weight to it." and
"Wikipedia should not present a dispute as if a view held by a small minority is as significant as the majority view. Views held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views (such as the flat Earth)"
The guidelines offer an excellent example of how to incorporate information regarding minority perspectives. the controversy surrounding the shrine is not a minority view. I don't understand why there is a separate article for information about the shrine's controversy. wikipedia is an encyclopedia designed to provide a wide variety of information, including information about sensitive topics. Shouldn't the two articles be merged?
Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine is 6,000 words of readable prose, while
Yasukuni Shrine itself is around 2,500 - combined, they would probably make up around 8,000 (eliminating redundancies). If merged, this article would become around 75% controversy - which is undue weight.
I do believe a solution similar to
Nestle would be appropriate - a controversy section outlining the main issues (that isn't buried under History), with a "main article" link to the other page.
Couruu (
talk)
09:19, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Yes. I agree, a nested controversy section linking to the larger article seems appropriate. I will get to work on this when I find the time after the semester has quieted down.
Tornbetween (
talk)
21:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply