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Hello there! As with the request on my talk page, here are a few pointers. I'd say it's a good idea to link this article to others. Is there a section on a Somali law page summarising this? Could each section of this page be broken into further "main pages"? I've not spent much time reading but it looks pretty good. From the references, perhaps we'd like to see some more books - generally internet websites aren't good, because they come and go, and anyone can write them. So page numbers from proper publications would be nice. I tend to put pictures here and there to liven things up (and compensate for my shoddy writing!). But I think this is really interesting. I think I might know an article about this as well - but I'm not sure if it was Ethiopia. I'll come back, but just send me a message if I can help. Cheers, Wik idea 13:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This article reeks heavily of idealizing this legal system. Quoting specifically "there is never any fighting", leaving out external links that confirm the acceptance of this legal system on the part of the majority while claiming universal acceptance and preference over centralized authority, poetic writing style, etc, well you get the idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.23.64.95 ( talk) 19:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
It does seem like the most extreme form idealising a system of law. A law that doesn't seem too different from the blood-feud system of 6th Century Anglo-Saxon England.-- IndieStonerKid ( talk) 20:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I agree. This article has been heavily redacted by someone with an interest in romanticizing and idealizing this legal system and making it seem superior to western systems. I am therefore adding the NPOV dispute tag. Please add information on its disadvantages if you are able to do so, and generally balance the article. Kwertii ( talk) 07:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I read the article before the talk page and decided to make exactly such an neutrality section here, before noticing it already exists. So let me agree with Kwertii above: The article does mention advantages, but is silent on disadvantages. E.g. "A virtue of each person knowing from birth who will be one of his judges, and vice versa, is that an oday knows each person in his extended family intimately and can observe and counsel him before what might seem to be a small problem escalates into a crime." The (rather obvious) disadvantages are not mentioned. PS: No relation to my user name. -- Xeeron ( talk) 17:37, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
The writing-style is that of a plea for Xeer.
"In the words of a local Somali living in Garowe", what is the significance of one random Somali saying this? I could also quote myself saying some random stuff but there's no significance in it. Plus it implies as if this Somali speaks for all Somalis. "Most Somalis, progressive and conservative alike, still support this system" source? "This clearly shows (...)" again: it sounds as a plea for Xeer. "Because property rights requires compensation, rather than punishment", not objective. " It is a good example of how customary law works within a stateless society" although I agree it has no place in wikipedia. "Law and, consequently crime, are defined in terms of property rights" it may as well be attributed to social-anarchist possesion, it is unfounded.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Goti123 ( talk • contribs) 10:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Quote: In the words of a program officer at a local non-governmental organization:“Xeer is accepted by the people. You cannot deny that. It is a strange culture, the Somali culture. But there is a beauty to it. All agreements are reached and all disputes are resolved through consensus. There is no fighting. There is never any fighting. ”
What about the civil war that went on in Somalia? I think this quote should be deleted because it is not the truth. Even when the civil war might have been caused by a disruption of the Xeer system. Die bibi ( talk) 20:48, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking that this article is heavily NPOV. It smacks of anarcho-capitalist phraseology like "Law and, consequently crime, are defined in terms of property rights.". I suggest a full or partial rewrite of some sort. — Melab±1 ☎ 21:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Currently the opening paragraph is terrible. Some of the sources are just broken links, and one-sided rubbish sources like rkba.org (quoted several times) are used to present a minority opinion as a majority one. The *second paragraph* literally begins with "According to one report". I propose replacing the lede with an accurate description of the topic with proper encyclopedic references. 85.76.8.185 ( talk) 11:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
To make my concerns more specific (all those IP comments above are mine), the main problems are
I'll try to fix some of these, but to resolve the POV issue we need other editors to join this conversation (and provide additional sources). 85.76.148.69 ( talk) 23:09, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
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Xeer. Please take a moment to review
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IPA is the most insultingly useless thing ever! They should replace it with something simply written clearly and phonetically. Sometimes I can hover my mouse over a IPA on Wikipedia and each letter it will say how to pronounce stuff, but that doesn't work anymore on Wikipedia and it just send to an IPA page. I tried changing to spanish, english, and german and showing preview and it still no mouse-hover. So I went to the IPA page. I searched through it's randomized index and found each letter. The IPA claims that xeer is not pronounced "zeer" but pronounced the same as a cat coughing up a hairball. That is exactlly what the Somali IPA help page claims! HORRIBLE! Someone needs to fix it. IPA should be removed from Wikipedia all together and replaced with something that is not insultingly useless!! Stoodpointt ( talk) 09:02, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Apparently a lot of the content is in violation of copyright, or "copyvio" as it were. Actually I nearly put the copyvio back in. I really miss the copyvio. That's not very pro-law thing to say, but its true. This looks like a clear case of needing a reliable secondary source with a CC BY-SA license, as presumably the copyvio is copyrighted with all rights reserved and Wikipedia is a tertiary work that only allows primary works that are backed up with secondary works or something. WP:SECONDARY or something. The work also should cover the role of clan system infighting, and attempts by clans to take State power. In my opinion, no account of the Xeer is complete without examining clan system infighting and attempts by clans to take State power. Does anyone know anything about the alleged Garre-Murule Conflict? 130.105.196.100 ( talk) 13:33, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
https://mises.org/library/rule-law-without-state and
http://web.archive.org/web/20110503185426/http://www.hdcentre.org/files/Somalia%20report.pdf (report dated June 2005). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 23:50, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
I saw that this article was once quite large, but that it was mostly deleted due to various issues. I have tried to rebuild this article using a number of sources but as I am only a rookie at this I would request that anyone encountering this message double check my sources or else wise assist in any way possible. This article has been given a "Top-importance" rating by WikiProject Somalia and WikiProject Africa. Let's get it up to standard!
- User:HeathIsling, 23 February 2017.
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Hello there! As with the request on my talk page, here are a few pointers. I'd say it's a good idea to link this article to others. Is there a section on a Somali law page summarising this? Could each section of this page be broken into further "main pages"? I've not spent much time reading but it looks pretty good. From the references, perhaps we'd like to see some more books - generally internet websites aren't good, because they come and go, and anyone can write them. So page numbers from proper publications would be nice. I tend to put pictures here and there to liven things up (and compensate for my shoddy writing!). But I think this is really interesting. I think I might know an article about this as well - but I'm not sure if it was Ethiopia. I'll come back, but just send me a message if I can help. Cheers, Wik idea 13:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This article reeks heavily of idealizing this legal system. Quoting specifically "there is never any fighting", leaving out external links that confirm the acceptance of this legal system on the part of the majority while claiming universal acceptance and preference over centralized authority, poetic writing style, etc, well you get the idea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.23.64.95 ( talk) 19:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
It does seem like the most extreme form idealising a system of law. A law that doesn't seem too different from the blood-feud system of 6th Century Anglo-Saxon England.-- IndieStonerKid ( talk) 20:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I agree. This article has been heavily redacted by someone with an interest in romanticizing and idealizing this legal system and making it seem superior to western systems. I am therefore adding the NPOV dispute tag. Please add information on its disadvantages if you are able to do so, and generally balance the article. Kwertii ( talk) 07:00, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I read the article before the talk page and decided to make exactly such an neutrality section here, before noticing it already exists. So let me agree with Kwertii above: The article does mention advantages, but is silent on disadvantages. E.g. "A virtue of each person knowing from birth who will be one of his judges, and vice versa, is that an oday knows each person in his extended family intimately and can observe and counsel him before what might seem to be a small problem escalates into a crime." The (rather obvious) disadvantages are not mentioned. PS: No relation to my user name. -- Xeeron ( talk) 17:37, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
The writing-style is that of a plea for Xeer.
"In the words of a local Somali living in Garowe", what is the significance of one random Somali saying this? I could also quote myself saying some random stuff but there's no significance in it. Plus it implies as if this Somali speaks for all Somalis. "Most Somalis, progressive and conservative alike, still support this system" source? "This clearly shows (...)" again: it sounds as a plea for Xeer. "Because property rights requires compensation, rather than punishment", not objective. " It is a good example of how customary law works within a stateless society" although I agree it has no place in wikipedia. "Law and, consequently crime, are defined in terms of property rights" it may as well be attributed to social-anarchist possesion, it is unfounded.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Goti123 ( talk • contribs) 10:42, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Quote: In the words of a program officer at a local non-governmental organization:“Xeer is accepted by the people. You cannot deny that. It is a strange culture, the Somali culture. But there is a beauty to it. All agreements are reached and all disputes are resolved through consensus. There is no fighting. There is never any fighting. ”
What about the civil war that went on in Somalia? I think this quote should be deleted because it is not the truth. Even when the civil war might have been caused by a disruption of the Xeer system. Die bibi ( talk) 20:48, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm thinking that this article is heavily NPOV. It smacks of anarcho-capitalist phraseology like "Law and, consequently crime, are defined in terms of property rights.". I suggest a full or partial rewrite of some sort. — Melab±1 ☎ 21:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Currently the opening paragraph is terrible. Some of the sources are just broken links, and one-sided rubbish sources like rkba.org (quoted several times) are used to present a minority opinion as a majority one. The *second paragraph* literally begins with "According to one report". I propose replacing the lede with an accurate description of the topic with proper encyclopedic references. 85.76.8.185 ( talk) 11:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
To make my concerns more specific (all those IP comments above are mine), the main problems are
I'll try to fix some of these, but to resolve the POV issue we need other editors to join this conversation (and provide additional sources). 85.76.148.69 ( talk) 23:09, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
Xeer. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:26, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Xeer. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:26, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
IPA is the most insultingly useless thing ever! They should replace it with something simply written clearly and phonetically. Sometimes I can hover my mouse over a IPA on Wikipedia and each letter it will say how to pronounce stuff, but that doesn't work anymore on Wikipedia and it just send to an IPA page. I tried changing to spanish, english, and german and showing preview and it still no mouse-hover. So I went to the IPA page. I searched through it's randomized index and found each letter. The IPA claims that xeer is not pronounced "zeer" but pronounced the same as a cat coughing up a hairball. That is exactlly what the Somali IPA help page claims! HORRIBLE! Someone needs to fix it. IPA should be removed from Wikipedia all together and replaced with something that is not insultingly useless!! Stoodpointt ( talk) 09:02, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
Apparently a lot of the content is in violation of copyright, or "copyvio" as it were. Actually I nearly put the copyvio back in. I really miss the copyvio. That's not very pro-law thing to say, but its true. This looks like a clear case of needing a reliable secondary source with a CC BY-SA license, as presumably the copyvio is copyrighted with all rights reserved and Wikipedia is a tertiary work that only allows primary works that are backed up with secondary works or something. WP:SECONDARY or something. The work also should cover the role of clan system infighting, and attempts by clans to take State power. In my opinion, no account of the Xeer is complete without examining clan system infighting and attempts by clans to take State power. Does anyone know anything about the alleged Garre-Murule Conflict? 130.105.196.100 ( talk) 13:33, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from:
https://mises.org/library/rule-law-without-state and
http://web.archive.org/web/20110503185426/http://www.hdcentre.org/files/Somalia%20report.pdf (report dated June 2005). Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see
"using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or
"donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)
For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 23:50, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
I saw that this article was once quite large, but that it was mostly deleted due to various issues. I have tried to rebuild this article using a number of sources but as I am only a rookie at this I would request that anyone encountering this message double check my sources or else wise assist in any way possible. This article has been given a "Top-importance" rating by WikiProject Somalia and WikiProject Africa. Let's get it up to standard!
- User:HeathIsling, 23 February 2017.