This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Note: moving this discussion into a section so people can edit the section instead of having to edit the entire discussion page. Argel1200 ( talk) 21:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Is there any reason this concept should not be treated as an instance of the Just-world phenomenon, and its article merged? They seem quite closely related. -- Soultaco 17:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that Baumeister's idea is basically exactly the same as JWP - I have put in a link to JWP, but anyone can edit it out if they feel like it. Why does he have his own section? His beliefs are not a new idea! Basically it is identical to JWP, but I suppose being a Prof. of Psych and write a few books means you can claim any old idea as your own. Even one that will have been in existence since man could communicate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.12.125.50 ( talk) 12:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
The basic "jist" of a self-fulfilling prophecy is where the belief or fear one has about a given person/situation leads to their fear being realised as a result of having it in the first place. I do not see how this in any way relates to victim blaming. In this case we are talking about denial and a need to redirect blame to another party. It does not make the victim actually become the one responsible nor are we talking about something being actualized by the fear of it being true. If anyone can appropriately show how these two terms are in any way related we can restore it, but I think its misleading to make such a connection when one does not appear to exist. Enigmatical 01:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
This stuff about Sweden sounds like pure bullshit to me. I'm Swedish and _I've_ never heard anything about this. Unless someone comes up with sources for this about Sweden in the next 24 hours, I'm just gonna edit it away.
Addicted2Sanity 01:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello.
I removed the unsubstantiated stuff about Sweden, and I also wikified the text more. Hope everyone is happy with the changes - it looks pretty nice to me... :)
Addicted2Sanity 22:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
"Blaming the victim" as a concept is not really any deeper than what it literally says. If you understand the noun "victim" and the verb "to blame", you understand what it means; any further explanation would be nothing more than paraphrase, as in the introductory paragraph of this article. We might as well have an article about "Putting on a hat", complete with an elaborate explanation of the process, wikilinks, a couple pictures, and a brief history of hat-wearing across world cultures.
As a literal expression, "blaming the victim" is little more than a rhetoric device; we could list instances where it has been used, but that would result in an unencyclopedic and sometimes ridiculous article (currently its "History of the idea" suggests that victim-blaming was invented in the 1960s!). It would end up being just a soapbox for people to denounce their favorite injustices, NPOV be damned. -- 79.23.243.226 ( talk) 14:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
This article has as much reason to be here as "Walking a dog", "Moving furniture" or "opening a window". It just isn't encyclopedic and grouping a couple of words together "Victim" and "Blame" does not make for an encyclopedic topic. It should be marked for speedy deletion. JettaMann ( talk) 01:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I for one would like to say "Thank you" for including the article on Victim Blaming in Wikipedia. I have found it very enlightening and very helpful to myself as I have apparently been a victim of this very thing on several occasions! If I had not come across this article in a link from another Wikipedia article, I would not have been able to understand what had been happening to me. I would also like to thank everyone for all the other Wikipedia articles on Psychology which I am reading and finding so helpful. I realise this post of mine may not be very Wikipedic, but I'm a newbie so I hope you'll accept it and not edit it out. May God bless you all. Anonymous. 01:40, 22 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.108.57 ( talk)
I would say, important and notable topic that definitely should stay. We need more references. Audriusa ( talk) 13:47, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
I suggest a section on the use of "blaming the victim" in order to divert attention away from the accused having not commited a crime, be as responsible, be resonsible at all, deserve the consequences that are demanded, and in all in all, the various ignorant uses people have for using the "you're blaming the victim!" fallacy.
I find that such a section, or a "contraversy/criticism" section regarding "blaming the victim" would hold a great deal more artcle than what is presented so far. As it has been used to erode away rights, harm others or as ive mentioned, divert attention away from reason and logic in an emotional situation so their ignorance can be upheld. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.143.128 ( talk) 09:20, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
---> Personaly I disagree with adding such a section, because that would make it ideological. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia meant for objective, universally accepted facts. Its not for opinions and/or ideology, and that's what your suggested section would entail. -- 77.29.85.175 ( talk) 12:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
It said ""In the United States, rape is unique in that it is the only crime in which there are statutory protections designed in favor of the victim (known as " rape shield laws").""
The reason this is misleading, is because its still a trial, there is no proof the accuser is a victim yet. That's why you have a trial. Only after the trial is over do you know if there was a victim. The law doesn't protect victims after they're proven victims, but it protects any accuser, before they actually prove that they are indeed, a victim. I changed it to "the accuser" instead of "the victim" to make it more accurate. Otheriwse left the paragraph untouched.
-- 77.29.85.175 ( talk) 12:18, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- I noticed later that it uses the word "victim" all throughout the paragraph, and in all cases I changed it with "alleged victim" and/or accuser or both.
-- 77.28.18.24 ( talk) 09:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
"Historically victim-blaming is the trait most often exhibited by the criminally insane and has traditionally emerged in racist and sexist forms." What does this have to do with anything? The source doesn't look too reliable, and honestly it makes no sense. What do victim blaming and the criminally insane have to do with each other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.135.145.202 ( talk) 17:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Removed "citation needed" from second paragraph of intro. You do not need a citation for a simple definition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.48.78.217 ( talk) 03:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe there should be some information about child and domestic abuse in this entry. Kazuba ( talk) 13:12, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
danielg 05:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC) Yikes, what a very "bold" set of statements with only a link to a study in Jordan. Murdering women because they are pregnant should really have some more citations if you want to include this. For an English version of Wikipedia I dont think a Jordanian reference is nearly enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielg001 ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
This section is purely about rape victims, and also utilizes concept requiring the definition of "victim blaming," as well as uses the phrase. I feel like this section belongs somewhere on the rape page or something, not here. It's not very encyclopedic in that I feel like it's sort of off-topic. I also feel like using the words "victim blaming" to describe an incidence of victim blaming is sort of like using a word in its own definition. Pressondude ( talk) 23:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Is that right word? Capitals00 ( talk) 06:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I've added a section of notable instances, which attracted worldwide coverage, of victim blaming in the last decade. All is referenced to RSs. I note that there is much in the article that still needs to be properly referenced.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 22:23, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
That's funny, because I was going to suggest that you start List of incidents of victim-blaming and put your examples there, where I would have no problem with them. I'm not making up rules, I'm proposing a reasonable criterion for deciding whether or not an example of victim blaming should go in this article to explain what the concept of victim blaming means. Do you have some reason for including those particular examples at such length? They don't seem especially illustrative of anything to me and the length of the section seems to constitute undue weight. — alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 20:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I have found a notable case which even Andy will be happy with, it is not about rape, nor does it involve ethnic minorities nor even a Muslim. It is a very notable case of domestic violence, Marisol Aguirre who was married to Christian Meier When she went public with it Jaime Bayly on his TV show blamed her for it. Local violence, global media: feminist analyses of gendered representations p56. Any objections to this being included as a notable example? Darkness Shines ( talk) 16:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Ok. sorry for the delay but I am a little worried that someone will say I only read a pert of a line "In 2007 the popular actress Marisol Aguirre filed for divorce from her husband, actor and singer Christian Meier, after 12 years of marriage. Meier, a white Peruvian from an affluent family, is among the most well known, respected, and adored(especially by young women) contemporary celebrities. Aguirre filed a domestic violence complaint on the grounds of physical and psychological abuse not long before she filed for divorce. After repeated questions about their divorce Aguirre appeared on the popular celebrity gossip show Magaly to declare that, for the sake of their children, she wanted to clarify that her husband and never punched or hit her. She explained that "physical violence doesn't necessarily mean being hit, but also breaking a door or violently grabbing something from someone, there are a thousand forms of physical violence". The day after Aguirre's appearance on the show, Magaly told her viewers there were always two people guilty in domestic violence, not just one. Aguirre's explanation of the subtleties of physical violence was widely interpreted as a declaration that there had been no physical abuse and that her husband, the beloved celebrity, should not be blamed. Within a few days of Aguirre's appearance on Magaly, another popular celebrity Jaime Bayly, used his TV show to discuss the Aguirre-Meier case and to ridicule Aguirre's statements about the abuse she experienced. Bayly told his viewers that only "real" physical violence deserved to be reported, breaking a door was not real violence. He also claimed that verbal violence did not meet the criteria of real violence and that Aguirre should have considered the impact of her complaints on her husband before filing her complaint. In the following days, more television commentators followed Bayly's example by question Aguirre and supporting Meier. Because it involved celebrities, the Aguirre-Meier case garnered significant public attention. As in previous cases discussed in this chapter, victim blaming characterized the Aguirre-Meier stories. In one interpretation, Aguirre's explanation of the violence she experienced is reinterpreted and wipes away her husbands blame. In a second interpretation, blame is directly shifted onto Aguirre for speaking out and reporting her husband. Notable among the coverage of the Aguirre-Meier case was an open letter sent by one dozen women's organizations to Bayly. Citing international laws and international treaties that theoretically govern Peru's treatment of domestic violence, the letter reminds Bayly that contrary to his statements, domestic violence includes psychological violence." Local violence, global media: feminist analyses of gendered representations pp55-56— Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkness Shines ( talk • contribs) 18:41, 7 May 2013
Could I ask that people pay a little more attention to proper sourcing? I've had to remove several sources from the disputed 'victim blaming' section. We had opinion pieces (not generally accepted as RS other than as the opinion of the author, obviously), sources which say 'according to' other sources, and vague generalisations clearly not borne out by the facts. This is not the way it is supposed to be done. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 16:42, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Although rape is the stereo-typical victim blaming scenario, victim-blaming reaches into many other areas. I added a section to this page on Family Estrangement, about the knee jerk reaction of people to assume the parents were "bad" whenever there is a family estrangement. I included references, but it was deleted as being "off topic." It isn't off topic. There is a large population of good parents, no history of abuse or alcoholism, who have been emotionally cut off by their adolescent or adult children. Yet, the adult children are supported while the parents are stigmatized (they must have done something to deserve it.) Overindulgence, borderline personality disorder, alienating in-laws are all common themes.... yet the parent, who freely admits to not being perfect, is vilified without reasonable justification.... the equivalent of "she wore a short dress, so she was asking to be raped."
Anyone with me on this? Willing to undo the deletion of my short Family Estrangement section at the tail end of this article on Victim Blaming? Think Rachel Canning's assertion that her father gave her a sense of being inappropriate when he kissed her on the cheek in public becoming an indictment against him in a legal finding.
Seabreezes1 Seabreezes1 ( talk) 23:05, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I have not been able to recover my edits to this article to specifically address your critique, AndyTheGrump. Perhaps you can help me with that? I don't want to rewrite it multiple times to have it rejected. I certainly can pull quotes from the article about "real or perceived stigma" to replace "kneejerk" and will be happy to do so. However, although "in depth" is a relative term, yes, there is research quality documentation in Bowen theory, Shunning, Karpman Drama Triangle, and Family Estrangement indicating that there is a psychological predisposition to "blame the parents" when an adult child estranges, and for the parents to beat themselves up about what they did wrong, when they didn't do anything to deserve this type of treatment. It is part of our collective tendency to believe that if something that bad happens to someone, they must have done something wrong, consequently it's not going to happen to us and we don't want to associate with the person who did wrong, i.e. victim blaming See: /info/en/?search=Family_estrangement Seabreezes1 ( talk) 15:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
This discussion on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Psychology was rerouted back to talk:family estrangement and talk:victim-blaming
BTW: I intend to add another section to family estrangement article on Scenarios involving value based rejection, i.e. religion change or sexual orientation, and on grandparents, but need more documented research on those areas before I add. Seabreezes1 ( talk) 17:55, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
See talk:family estrangement for comments about family estrangement as a topic apart from victim blaming Seabreezes1 ( talk) 14:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Note: moving this discussion into a section so people can edit the section instead of having to edit the entire discussion page. Argel1200 ( talk) 21:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Is there any reason this concept should not be treated as an instance of the Just-world phenomenon, and its article merged? They seem quite closely related. -- Soultaco 17:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that Baumeister's idea is basically exactly the same as JWP - I have put in a link to JWP, but anyone can edit it out if they feel like it. Why does he have his own section? His beliefs are not a new idea! Basically it is identical to JWP, but I suppose being a Prof. of Psych and write a few books means you can claim any old idea as your own. Even one that will have been in existence since man could communicate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.12.125.50 ( talk) 12:12, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
The basic "jist" of a self-fulfilling prophecy is where the belief or fear one has about a given person/situation leads to their fear being realised as a result of having it in the first place. I do not see how this in any way relates to victim blaming. In this case we are talking about denial and a need to redirect blame to another party. It does not make the victim actually become the one responsible nor are we talking about something being actualized by the fear of it being true. If anyone can appropriately show how these two terms are in any way related we can restore it, but I think its misleading to make such a connection when one does not appear to exist. Enigmatical 01:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
This stuff about Sweden sounds like pure bullshit to me. I'm Swedish and _I've_ never heard anything about this. Unless someone comes up with sources for this about Sweden in the next 24 hours, I'm just gonna edit it away.
Addicted2Sanity 01:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Hello.
I removed the unsubstantiated stuff about Sweden, and I also wikified the text more. Hope everyone is happy with the changes - it looks pretty nice to me... :)
Addicted2Sanity 22:42, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
"Blaming the victim" as a concept is not really any deeper than what it literally says. If you understand the noun "victim" and the verb "to blame", you understand what it means; any further explanation would be nothing more than paraphrase, as in the introductory paragraph of this article. We might as well have an article about "Putting on a hat", complete with an elaborate explanation of the process, wikilinks, a couple pictures, and a brief history of hat-wearing across world cultures.
As a literal expression, "blaming the victim" is little more than a rhetoric device; we could list instances where it has been used, but that would result in an unencyclopedic and sometimes ridiculous article (currently its "History of the idea" suggests that victim-blaming was invented in the 1960s!). It would end up being just a soapbox for people to denounce their favorite injustices, NPOV be damned. -- 79.23.243.226 ( talk) 14:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
This article has as much reason to be here as "Walking a dog", "Moving furniture" or "opening a window". It just isn't encyclopedic and grouping a couple of words together "Victim" and "Blame" does not make for an encyclopedic topic. It should be marked for speedy deletion. JettaMann ( talk) 01:06, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I for one would like to say "Thank you" for including the article on Victim Blaming in Wikipedia. I have found it very enlightening and very helpful to myself as I have apparently been a victim of this very thing on several occasions! If I had not come across this article in a link from another Wikipedia article, I would not have been able to understand what had been happening to me. I would also like to thank everyone for all the other Wikipedia articles on Psychology which I am reading and finding so helpful. I realise this post of mine may not be very Wikipedic, but I'm a newbie so I hope you'll accept it and not edit it out. May God bless you all. Anonymous. 01:40, 22 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.108.57 ( talk)
I would say, important and notable topic that definitely should stay. We need more references. Audriusa ( talk) 13:47, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
I suggest a section on the use of "blaming the victim" in order to divert attention away from the accused having not commited a crime, be as responsible, be resonsible at all, deserve the consequences that are demanded, and in all in all, the various ignorant uses people have for using the "you're blaming the victim!" fallacy.
I find that such a section, or a "contraversy/criticism" section regarding "blaming the victim" would hold a great deal more artcle than what is presented so far. As it has been used to erode away rights, harm others or as ive mentioned, divert attention away from reason and logic in an emotional situation so their ignorance can be upheld. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.143.128 ( talk) 09:20, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
---> Personaly I disagree with adding such a section, because that would make it ideological. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia meant for objective, universally accepted facts. Its not for opinions and/or ideology, and that's what your suggested section would entail. -- 77.29.85.175 ( talk) 12:21, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
It said ""In the United States, rape is unique in that it is the only crime in which there are statutory protections designed in favor of the victim (known as " rape shield laws").""
The reason this is misleading, is because its still a trial, there is no proof the accuser is a victim yet. That's why you have a trial. Only after the trial is over do you know if there was a victim. The law doesn't protect victims after they're proven victims, but it protects any accuser, before they actually prove that they are indeed, a victim. I changed it to "the accuser" instead of "the victim" to make it more accurate. Otheriwse left the paragraph untouched.
-- 77.29.85.175 ( talk) 12:18, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
- I noticed later that it uses the word "victim" all throughout the paragraph, and in all cases I changed it with "alleged victim" and/or accuser or both.
-- 77.28.18.24 ( talk) 09:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
"Historically victim-blaming is the trait most often exhibited by the criminally insane and has traditionally emerged in racist and sexist forms." What does this have to do with anything? The source doesn't look too reliable, and honestly it makes no sense. What do victim blaming and the criminally insane have to do with each other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.135.145.202 ( talk) 17:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Removed "citation needed" from second paragraph of intro. You do not need a citation for a simple definition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.48.78.217 ( talk) 03:21, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe there should be some information about child and domestic abuse in this entry. Kazuba ( talk) 13:12, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
danielg 05:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC) Yikes, what a very "bold" set of statements with only a link to a study in Jordan. Murdering women because they are pregnant should really have some more citations if you want to include this. For an English version of Wikipedia I dont think a Jordanian reference is nearly enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielg001 ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
This section is purely about rape victims, and also utilizes concept requiring the definition of "victim blaming," as well as uses the phrase. I feel like this section belongs somewhere on the rape page or something, not here. It's not very encyclopedic in that I feel like it's sort of off-topic. I also feel like using the words "victim blaming" to describe an incidence of victim blaming is sort of like using a word in its own definition. Pressondude ( talk) 23:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Is that right word? Capitals00 ( talk) 06:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
I've added a section of notable instances, which attracted worldwide coverage, of victim blaming in the last decade. All is referenced to RSs. I note that there is much in the article that still needs to be properly referenced.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 22:23, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
That's funny, because I was going to suggest that you start List of incidents of victim-blaming and put your examples there, where I would have no problem with them. I'm not making up rules, I'm proposing a reasonable criterion for deciding whether or not an example of victim blaming should go in this article to explain what the concept of victim blaming means. Do you have some reason for including those particular examples at such length? They don't seem especially illustrative of anything to me and the length of the section seems to constitute undue weight. — alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 20:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I have found a notable case which even Andy will be happy with, it is not about rape, nor does it involve ethnic minorities nor even a Muslim. It is a very notable case of domestic violence, Marisol Aguirre who was married to Christian Meier When she went public with it Jaime Bayly on his TV show blamed her for it. Local violence, global media: feminist analyses of gendered representations p56. Any objections to this being included as a notable example? Darkness Shines ( talk) 16:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Ok. sorry for the delay but I am a little worried that someone will say I only read a pert of a line "In 2007 the popular actress Marisol Aguirre filed for divorce from her husband, actor and singer Christian Meier, after 12 years of marriage. Meier, a white Peruvian from an affluent family, is among the most well known, respected, and adored(especially by young women) contemporary celebrities. Aguirre filed a domestic violence complaint on the grounds of physical and psychological abuse not long before she filed for divorce. After repeated questions about their divorce Aguirre appeared on the popular celebrity gossip show Magaly to declare that, for the sake of their children, she wanted to clarify that her husband and never punched or hit her. She explained that "physical violence doesn't necessarily mean being hit, but also breaking a door or violently grabbing something from someone, there are a thousand forms of physical violence". The day after Aguirre's appearance on the show, Magaly told her viewers there were always two people guilty in domestic violence, not just one. Aguirre's explanation of the subtleties of physical violence was widely interpreted as a declaration that there had been no physical abuse and that her husband, the beloved celebrity, should not be blamed. Within a few days of Aguirre's appearance on Magaly, another popular celebrity Jaime Bayly, used his TV show to discuss the Aguirre-Meier case and to ridicule Aguirre's statements about the abuse she experienced. Bayly told his viewers that only "real" physical violence deserved to be reported, breaking a door was not real violence. He also claimed that verbal violence did not meet the criteria of real violence and that Aguirre should have considered the impact of her complaints on her husband before filing her complaint. In the following days, more television commentators followed Bayly's example by question Aguirre and supporting Meier. Because it involved celebrities, the Aguirre-Meier case garnered significant public attention. As in previous cases discussed in this chapter, victim blaming characterized the Aguirre-Meier stories. In one interpretation, Aguirre's explanation of the violence she experienced is reinterpreted and wipes away her husbands blame. In a second interpretation, blame is directly shifted onto Aguirre for speaking out and reporting her husband. Notable among the coverage of the Aguirre-Meier case was an open letter sent by one dozen women's organizations to Bayly. Citing international laws and international treaties that theoretically govern Peru's treatment of domestic violence, the letter reminds Bayly that contrary to his statements, domestic violence includes psychological violence." Local violence, global media: feminist analyses of gendered representations pp55-56— Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkness Shines ( talk • contribs) 18:41, 7 May 2013
Could I ask that people pay a little more attention to proper sourcing? I've had to remove several sources from the disputed 'victim blaming' section. We had opinion pieces (not generally accepted as RS other than as the opinion of the author, obviously), sources which say 'according to' other sources, and vague generalisations clearly not borne out by the facts. This is not the way it is supposed to be done. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 16:42, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Although rape is the stereo-typical victim blaming scenario, victim-blaming reaches into many other areas. I added a section to this page on Family Estrangement, about the knee jerk reaction of people to assume the parents were "bad" whenever there is a family estrangement. I included references, but it was deleted as being "off topic." It isn't off topic. There is a large population of good parents, no history of abuse or alcoholism, who have been emotionally cut off by their adolescent or adult children. Yet, the adult children are supported while the parents are stigmatized (they must have done something to deserve it.) Overindulgence, borderline personality disorder, alienating in-laws are all common themes.... yet the parent, who freely admits to not being perfect, is vilified without reasonable justification.... the equivalent of "she wore a short dress, so she was asking to be raped."
Anyone with me on this? Willing to undo the deletion of my short Family Estrangement section at the tail end of this article on Victim Blaming? Think Rachel Canning's assertion that her father gave her a sense of being inappropriate when he kissed her on the cheek in public becoming an indictment against him in a legal finding.
Seabreezes1 Seabreezes1 ( talk) 23:05, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I have not been able to recover my edits to this article to specifically address your critique, AndyTheGrump. Perhaps you can help me with that? I don't want to rewrite it multiple times to have it rejected. I certainly can pull quotes from the article about "real or perceived stigma" to replace "kneejerk" and will be happy to do so. However, although "in depth" is a relative term, yes, there is research quality documentation in Bowen theory, Shunning, Karpman Drama Triangle, and Family Estrangement indicating that there is a psychological predisposition to "blame the parents" when an adult child estranges, and for the parents to beat themselves up about what they did wrong, when they didn't do anything to deserve this type of treatment. It is part of our collective tendency to believe that if something that bad happens to someone, they must have done something wrong, consequently it's not going to happen to us and we don't want to associate with the person who did wrong, i.e. victim blaming See: /info/en/?search=Family_estrangement Seabreezes1 ( talk) 15:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
This discussion on the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Psychology was rerouted back to talk:family estrangement and talk:victim-blaming
BTW: I intend to add another section to family estrangement article on Scenarios involving value based rejection, i.e. religion change or sexual orientation, and on grandparents, but need more documented research on those areas before I add. Seabreezes1 ( talk) 17:55, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
See talk:family estrangement for comments about family estrangement as a topic apart from victim blaming Seabreezes1 ( talk) 14:47, 24 March 2014 (UTC)