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On 6 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Vasily III. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Is Vasili III the same person as Grand Duke Basil the Third?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
I have never heard or read anywhere that he would be called by this name. Can somebody give some sources? Or is this purely Western term? Vasily the III is considered to be a very powerful and far-sighted ruler, i doubt someone would mock him in that way. F.Alexsandr ( talk) 17:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Mellk Alright, let's have that discussion. Google Scholar results:
Ngram doesn't work (again)
Google Books results (only manually counting books in which the exact word combination is in bold, because Google Books often gives "results" in which the combo cannot be found):
And the WP:COMMONNAME competition winner is.... Vasily III of Moscow! Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
European monarchs whose rank is below that of king (e.g., grand dukes, electors, dukes, princes), should be at the location "{Monarch's first name and ordinal}, {Title} of {Country}".The question is then whether the title of velikiy knyaz is on or below the rank of "king". It's usually translated as "grand prince" or "grand duke", so I would think below the rank of king. On the other hand, some have made the etymological argument that knyaz may be a cognate of Old Norse konungr and may share a common ancestor with proto-Germanic *kuningaz, which I find plausible, but this is not commonly applied in WP:RS. (I've seen Ostrowski calling the Kievan Rus' knyaz a "king", but he is in a small minority). tsar is definitely above the level of king, so from Ivan the Terrible onwards this rule doesn't apply. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 10:31, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Since this discussion seems to have focused on the "of Russia" part and missed the Vasili/Vasily part, a separate RM can be done on that.( closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 05:19, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
Vasili III of Russia → Vasily III – Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Currently, Vasili III and Vasily III redirect here. Also, "Vasily" tends to be the more common spelling of the subject. See Ngram as an example of usage. Mellk ( talk) 19:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 6 May 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Vasily III. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Is Vasili III the same person as Grand Duke Basil the Third?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
I have never heard or read anywhere that he would be called by this name. Can somebody give some sources? Or is this purely Western term? Vasily the III is considered to be a very powerful and far-sighted ruler, i doubt someone would mock him in that way. F.Alexsandr ( talk) 17:23, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Mellk Alright, let's have that discussion. Google Scholar results:
Ngram doesn't work (again)
Google Books results (only manually counting books in which the exact word combination is in bold, because Google Books often gives "results" in which the combo cannot be found):
And the WP:COMMONNAME competition winner is.... Vasily III of Moscow! Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 08:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
European monarchs whose rank is below that of king (e.g., grand dukes, electors, dukes, princes), should be at the location "{Monarch's first name and ordinal}, {Title} of {Country}".The question is then whether the title of velikiy knyaz is on or below the rank of "king". It's usually translated as "grand prince" or "grand duke", so I would think below the rank of king. On the other hand, some have made the etymological argument that knyaz may be a cognate of Old Norse konungr and may share a common ancestor with proto-Germanic *kuningaz, which I find plausible, but this is not commonly applied in WP:RS. (I've seen Ostrowski calling the Kievan Rus' knyaz a "king", but he is in a small minority). tsar is definitely above the level of king, so from Ivan the Terrible onwards this rule doesn't apply. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw ( talk) 10:31, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Since this discussion seems to have focused on the "of Russia" part and missed the Vasili/Vasily part, a separate RM can be done on that.( closed by non-admin page mover) CLYDE TALK TO ME/ STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 05:19, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
Vasili III of Russia → Vasily III – Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Currently, Vasili III and Vasily III redirect here. Also, "Vasily" tends to be the more common spelling of the subject. See Ngram as an example of usage. Mellk ( talk) 19:34, 6 May 2023 (UTC)