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I suggest merging Bishamonten with Vaisravana, as Bishamonten is still considered a form of the Buddhist deity and, despite developing a local characterization (not untypical of Buddhist deities) has not become a totally independent deity. RandomCritic 17:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
User:Redtigerxyz made an error in interpreting the Monier-Williams dictionary entry p. 1026. I am giving this explanation to avoid a further revert cycle.
The entry does not say that Vaiśravaṇa means "son of Vaishrava" -- such a word doesn't even appear. Nor does it say that "Vaishrava" is an epithet of Kubera. Rather, it says that Vaiśravaṇa is a patronymic (i.e. in form, as a vṛddhi derivative) whose guṇa base is viśravaṇa; where it says "cf. g. śivâdi" it means to compare the similar pair (guṇa) śiva / (vṛddhi) śaiva and similar constructions (hence -ādi, which here means et cetera). It should be noted that while Monier-Williams uses the term patronymic to refer to structures of the śaiva type, the word śaiva itself does not necessarily mean "son or descendant of Śiva" but refers to a variety of other relations, e.g. belonging, sacred to, or worshipping Śiva.
Where the definition says "esp. of Kubera" it does not mean that Vaiśravaṇa means "son of Kubera"; rather it means that it is used as a name to refer to Kubera, and as an adjective, of things related to Kubera. Hence the definitions "relating or belonging to Kubera" (quoted from the Mahābhārata) and the various compounds, e.g. Vaiśravaṇânuja, i.e. Vaiśravaṇa-anuja "Vaiśravaṇa('s)-younger brother", i.e., Kubera's younger brother.
I hope this clarifies matters. RandomCritic ( talk) 15:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
I've noticed there appears to be quite a tradition floating around concerning "white," "yellow," "red," "green," ... "jambhalas" - at least when searching out artwork/'meditation aids' and that sort of thing. However, I can't seem to track down exactly *which* tradition this concept originates in, and the background necessary to understand it properly. (Particularly, random websites imply that each color represents something like an avatar of a different entity from higher up(?) the pantheon, while this article treats him as a single entity.) Anyone know what this is about? It's also difficult to find interpretation/discussion re: the mantras ascribed to each. [In fact, I've just sat through the video linked at http://www.kechara.com/peace-centre/video/david-lai-on-dzambalas-iconography/ , and at 23:30 the speaker dives into the symbology of the different colors, but treats them as instantiations of one single "jambhala" entity rather than the more diverse backstories I'm seeing elsewhere?] -- 69.177.114.231 ( talk) 11:24, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
From same commenter - stumbling on http://www.padmakumara.org/oldtbsn/teach/jambhala.htm has been the best discussion of the origin theory of each color-aspect I've been able to find so far, if anyone else is curious and trying to figure this out. Not making any claim it's authoritative, of course... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.248.181.10 ( talk) 19:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Although their iconography and function is similar - Vaiśravaṇa (tib. རྣམ་ཐོས་སྲས rnam thos sras) and Jambhala (tib. ཛམ་བྷ་ལ dzam bha la) - are considered separate deities. This article currently confuses the two. Chris Fynn ( talk) 05:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I suggest merging Bishamonten with Vaisravana, as Bishamonten is still considered a form of the Buddhist deity and, despite developing a local characterization (not untypical of Buddhist deities) has not become a totally independent deity. RandomCritic 17:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
User:Redtigerxyz made an error in interpreting the Monier-Williams dictionary entry p. 1026. I am giving this explanation to avoid a further revert cycle.
The entry does not say that Vaiśravaṇa means "son of Vaishrava" -- such a word doesn't even appear. Nor does it say that "Vaishrava" is an epithet of Kubera. Rather, it says that Vaiśravaṇa is a patronymic (i.e. in form, as a vṛddhi derivative) whose guṇa base is viśravaṇa; where it says "cf. g. śivâdi" it means to compare the similar pair (guṇa) śiva / (vṛddhi) śaiva and similar constructions (hence -ādi, which here means et cetera). It should be noted that while Monier-Williams uses the term patronymic to refer to structures of the śaiva type, the word śaiva itself does not necessarily mean "son or descendant of Śiva" but refers to a variety of other relations, e.g. belonging, sacred to, or worshipping Śiva.
Where the definition says "esp. of Kubera" it does not mean that Vaiśravaṇa means "son of Kubera"; rather it means that it is used as a name to refer to Kubera, and as an adjective, of things related to Kubera. Hence the definitions "relating or belonging to Kubera" (quoted from the Mahābhārata) and the various compounds, e.g. Vaiśravaṇânuja, i.e. Vaiśravaṇa-anuja "Vaiśravaṇa('s)-younger brother", i.e., Kubera's younger brother.
I hope this clarifies matters. RandomCritic ( talk) 15:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
I've noticed there appears to be quite a tradition floating around concerning "white," "yellow," "red," "green," ... "jambhalas" - at least when searching out artwork/'meditation aids' and that sort of thing. However, I can't seem to track down exactly *which* tradition this concept originates in, and the background necessary to understand it properly. (Particularly, random websites imply that each color represents something like an avatar of a different entity from higher up(?) the pantheon, while this article treats him as a single entity.) Anyone know what this is about? It's also difficult to find interpretation/discussion re: the mantras ascribed to each. [In fact, I've just sat through the video linked at http://www.kechara.com/peace-centre/video/david-lai-on-dzambalas-iconography/ , and at 23:30 the speaker dives into the symbology of the different colors, but treats them as instantiations of one single "jambhala" entity rather than the more diverse backstories I'm seeing elsewhere?] -- 69.177.114.231 ( talk) 11:24, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
From same commenter - stumbling on http://www.padmakumara.org/oldtbsn/teach/jambhala.htm has been the best discussion of the origin theory of each color-aspect I've been able to find so far, if anyone else is curious and trying to figure this out. Not making any claim it's authoritative, of course... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.248.181.10 ( talk) 19:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Although their iconography and function is similar - Vaiśravaṇa (tib. རྣམ་ཐོས་སྲས rnam thos sras) and Jambhala (tib. ཛམ་བྷ་ལ dzam bha la) - are considered separate deities. This article currently confuses the two. Chris Fynn ( talk) 05:04, 24 April 2012 (UTC)