![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from ID-Ten-T Error was copied or moved into User_error with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
The PEBKAC article seems to lack any reference other than the Jargon File entry. The "Other variations" entry in particular seems to be a repository of invented variations using random synonyms. I suggest adding PEBKAC as a section in the User error article, which provides extended context about the same concept. Diego ( talk) 08:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I dislike this article because it instead of laying any blame on the user lays all blame on the constructor.
It is like saying that it is the car constructor's fault when there are drunken drivers killing people with them.
There are problems you just cannot construct away, and you have to make the user actually learn something.
The fault never lies on only one side of the fence!
citation needed —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
95.80.45.98 (
talk)
16:50, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Also, merge ID-Ten-T Error here. Seems to be a fork of PEBKAC... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 06:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
This section is entirely Wikipedia:Original research. It is unreferenced, and I know of no UI researcher who dismisses the idea of a user error. It is arguable that some more of the article be devoted to design that might prevent user error, but that section is not it. I propose removal unless it is improved. DJ Clayworth ( talk) 16:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Diego ( talk) 18:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Maybe this article isn't the best referenced in the world, but the original meaning of "lack of user savvy" is clear. User DJ Clayworth is changing the article's direction by deleting references to that meaning, and the resulting content of "a term sometimes used by HCI practitioners" simply lacks notability for a stand-alone article. Either keep the original meaning or nominate the article for deletion. Diego ( talk) 10:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
the article mentions this: "The Navy pronounces ID10T as "Eye Dee Ten Tango"" The Very First Time I heard of a "ID10T" error, it was in a Navy Intermediate Radar shop, and it was pronounced "Eye Dee Ten Tee". I did hear a member of the U.S. Marine Corp using the described pronunciation several years later. As this was in JAN of 1988, this also seems to be the earliest usage? Paganize ( talk) 09:27, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Somebody should track down a new source for this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.243.177 ( talk) 15:04, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on User error. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:22, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
The (allegedly) Brazilian "BIOS problem" (Burro idiota operando el sistema) might be better rendered into English as an "Obstinate Ass Operating the System", or an "Ignorant Mule Operating the System". In the original, the noun is "burro" (donkey) and the adjectival use of "idiota" (lit.: idiotic; fig.: ignorant) qualifies it as a stupid donkey. The gist translation as "dumb idiot" is not incorrect, but loses the nuance of meaning that implies stubbornness, obstinacy, recalcitrance or pig-headedness, rather than mere stupidity alone. The term "idiota" conveys a meaning which remains, in the Hispanic languages, somewhat more faithful to the implication of "having the mental capacity of a two-year-old" than does the broader use of the term "idiot" in English.
As such, of the two translations suggested, "ignorant mule" is the more faithful to the source language(s), while "stubborn ass" domesticates to English which might, it is hoped, convey the same thing across the oceans. The collocation of "stupid ass" is a direct equivalent, to a native speaker of Br.E, but is thought an unuseful choice in Am.E and/or BEV, where the same collocation is used as an amplifying preface to a potentially weapons-grade profanity that is definitely not implicit in the original, i.e. "stupid ass mofo", an over-translation. In contrast, "stubborn mule" falls into the same defect as "dumb idiot", under-translation, conveying obstinacy but missing stupidity.
Lastly, it is noted that the backronym is valid in Spanish, the world's third language by number of speakers after English and Mandarin. It is not known, to the present contributor, whether or not it is the same in Brazilian Portuguese; plausible, but unimportant to the point at hand, which is that the Brazilian origin is apocryphal, but the backformation itself, from BIOS, makes perfect sense in (at least) Spanish, as does the association of the "BIOS problem" to the general gist of User_error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.49.253 ( talk) 17:00, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
As a Brazilian who works with IT since 2000's, I never heard "Burro Idiota Operando o Sistema" version of that. All times I heard was BIOS was "Bicho Ignorante Operando (o) Sistema" (Ignorant Beast Operating the System). (I never edit/talk on Wikipedia... I hope I did it correctly. D: ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.132.82.209 ( talk) 00:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I saw this image and it reminded me of this. Is the wiki allowed to have this image on the page as an example? https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/024/582/PEBCAC_1_.jpg [1] Angieskidney ( talk) 18:31, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Skill issue and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 28#Skill issue until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
An anonymous username, not my real name
04:04, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from ID-Ten-T Error was copied or moved into User_error with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
The PEBKAC article seems to lack any reference other than the Jargon File entry. The "Other variations" entry in particular seems to be a repository of invented variations using random synonyms. I suggest adding PEBKAC as a section in the User error article, which provides extended context about the same concept. Diego ( talk) 08:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I dislike this article because it instead of laying any blame on the user lays all blame on the constructor.
It is like saying that it is the car constructor's fault when there are drunken drivers killing people with them.
There are problems you just cannot construct away, and you have to make the user actually learn something.
The fault never lies on only one side of the fence!
citation needed —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
95.80.45.98 (
talk)
16:50, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Also, merge ID-Ten-T Error here. Seems to be a fork of PEBKAC... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 06:54, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
This section is entirely Wikipedia:Original research. It is unreferenced, and I know of no UI researcher who dismisses the idea of a user error. It is arguable that some more of the article be devoted to design that might prevent user error, but that section is not it. I propose removal unless it is improved. DJ Clayworth ( talk) 16:53, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Diego ( talk) 18:11, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
Maybe this article isn't the best referenced in the world, but the original meaning of "lack of user savvy" is clear. User DJ Clayworth is changing the article's direction by deleting references to that meaning, and the resulting content of "a term sometimes used by HCI practitioners" simply lacks notability for a stand-alone article. Either keep the original meaning or nominate the article for deletion. Diego ( talk) 10:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
the article mentions this: "The Navy pronounces ID10T as "Eye Dee Ten Tango"" The Very First Time I heard of a "ID10T" error, it was in a Navy Intermediate Radar shop, and it was pronounced "Eye Dee Ten Tee". I did hear a member of the U.S. Marine Corp using the described pronunciation several years later. As this was in JAN of 1988, this also seems to be the earliest usage? Paganize ( talk) 09:27, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Somebody should track down a new source for this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.184.243.177 ( talk) 15:04, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on User error. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:22, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
The (allegedly) Brazilian "BIOS problem" (Burro idiota operando el sistema) might be better rendered into English as an "Obstinate Ass Operating the System", or an "Ignorant Mule Operating the System". In the original, the noun is "burro" (donkey) and the adjectival use of "idiota" (lit.: idiotic; fig.: ignorant) qualifies it as a stupid donkey. The gist translation as "dumb idiot" is not incorrect, but loses the nuance of meaning that implies stubbornness, obstinacy, recalcitrance or pig-headedness, rather than mere stupidity alone. The term "idiota" conveys a meaning which remains, in the Hispanic languages, somewhat more faithful to the implication of "having the mental capacity of a two-year-old" than does the broader use of the term "idiot" in English.
As such, of the two translations suggested, "ignorant mule" is the more faithful to the source language(s), while "stubborn ass" domesticates to English which might, it is hoped, convey the same thing across the oceans. The collocation of "stupid ass" is a direct equivalent, to a native speaker of Br.E, but is thought an unuseful choice in Am.E and/or BEV, where the same collocation is used as an amplifying preface to a potentially weapons-grade profanity that is definitely not implicit in the original, i.e. "stupid ass mofo", an over-translation. In contrast, "stubborn mule" falls into the same defect as "dumb idiot", under-translation, conveying obstinacy but missing stupidity.
Lastly, it is noted that the backronym is valid in Spanish, the world's third language by number of speakers after English and Mandarin. It is not known, to the present contributor, whether or not it is the same in Brazilian Portuguese; plausible, but unimportant to the point at hand, which is that the Brazilian origin is apocryphal, but the backformation itself, from BIOS, makes perfect sense in (at least) Spanish, as does the association of the "BIOS problem" to the general gist of User_error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.49.253 ( talk) 17:00, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
As a Brazilian who works with IT since 2000's, I never heard "Burro Idiota Operando o Sistema" version of that. All times I heard was BIOS was "Bicho Ignorante Operando (o) Sistema" (Ignorant Beast Operating the System). (I never edit/talk on Wikipedia... I hope I did it correctly. D: ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.132.82.209 ( talk) 00:41, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I saw this image and it reminded me of this. Is the wiki allowed to have this image on the page as an example? https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/024/582/PEBCAC_1_.jpg [1] Angieskidney ( talk) 18:31, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect
Skill issue and has thus listed it
for discussion. This discussion will occur at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 November 28#Skill issue until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion.
An anonymous username, not my real name
04:04, 28 November 2022 (UTC)