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This map gives a pretty good idea of what pro sports teams are most popular and influential upstate.
http://www.commoncensus.org/sports.php
Just click on each pro sport to see. Spooky873 ( talk) 02:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps someone can explain to me why this section is so Rochester-centric, and why 11 out of 16 paragraphs (plus a table!!!) in the "upstate culture" section concern Rochester sports teams, some exceedingly minor and obscure.
Nothing against Rochester, but it is but one of many upstate cities, and of those it is not even the largest. The two professional-level teams upstate (the NFL's Bills and NHL's Sabres) get barely a passing mention before the article delves into the litany of obscure Rochester sports teams.
Either all of that Rochester-sports trivia should be deleted, or else all that information should be added for all other upstate cities (i.e. every other city has tons of minor sports teams as well, eg. Buffalo Bandits lacrosse, Buffalo Bisons baseball, UB Bulls football, St. Bonaventure basketball, Niagara Univ. hockey, etc.) 140.251.125.50 ( talk) 21:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Matt
Edit: I've tried to rectify the situation somewhat by adding some Buffalo-specific information to balance out the overwhelming amount of Rochester stuff. The section probably still needs some improvement though. 140.251.125.50 ( talk) 22:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Matt
based on this article one would surmise 80-% of upstate was in the Rochester media market. Are you guys all drunk on Genesee? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.141.78 ( talk) 23:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
EDIT! The stuff about Rochester and Buffalo sports is simply excessive and needs to be gone. At the very least, start a separate section within the article for "Sports" instead of dumping all of it into "Culture!" Or consider starting a new separate article for Upstate sports teams. Good God. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.239.88 ( talk) 19:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
See the new article Athletics in Upstate New York, where I have moved most of this. Don Argus jr ( talk) 19:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
This article previously stated that President Bush managed to win Upstate New York. Upon reviewing the election results I discovered this to be incorrect.
Subtracting the five counties of New York City (Bronx, Kings, New York, Queens and Richmond) from the vote total leaves Senator Kerry with 2,486,265 votes to 2,375,033 for President Bush. Going further and subtracting Long Island (Nassau and Suffolk counties) as well as Rockland county and Westchester country leaves Senator Kerry with 1,553,246 votes to 1,551,971 votes for President Bush. A margin of 1,275 votes.
If you double check the results from my source you will find this to be the case. Remember that you need to include the vote totals from the Conservative Party for Bush and the Working Families Party for Kerry because of New York State's Electoral fusion laws.
Source: http://www.elections.state.ny.us/elections/2004/president04.pdf from The NYS Board of Elections, Election results
--
Tchaika 19:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC).
Good find. I had heard that before that without downstate, upstate was all Bush but that is totally false. Thank you
Spooky873 (
talk) 02:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Tchaika, could you add your sources to the "Politics" section of the article? It's coming under criticism for being uncited. Thanks,
Don Argus jr (
talk) 20:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Although the article correctly points out that Westchester is not considered to be Upstate, the map contradicts this. Nelson Ricardo 04:52, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
Pharos; your changes reverted my change that changed "outside of NYC" to "north of NYC". To say "outside the core of NYC" would falsely include parts of Long Island as Upstate New York. Chances are that was a mistake, but in any case I'm explaining myself as per Wikipedia policy. -- Bletch 17:07, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The TZ Bridge is a major psychological barrier, ..I'd say Rockland is as far flung for NYC residents as Westchester past I-287
Upstate New Yorkers ought to be allowed to define themselves. What New York City residents think "Upstate" is, is of no relevance.
In my experience, there are at least three definitions that are commonly used for Upstate New York:
-- ThorstenNY 06:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
I decided to remove the "minimum 7,000 students" from the list of Upstate New York colleges. This is partly because many of the colleges on the list (i.e. RPI, Hamilton College, Colgate University, Skidmore College, Clarkson University, & several listed SUNYs) have less than 7,000 students, and also, I do not believe that a school having at least 7,000 students makes it major or noticeable. Don't change this unless you leave a talk comment. -- Jondude11 02:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed this text from the article: While Upstate New York may include the Buffalo Metro Area, people from Western New York almost never, refer to themselves as "Upstaters", this is mostly due to the fact that the Buffalo Metro Area is connected to the Greater Toronto Area, and many who live there do not fit the description of the rest of Upstate New York. Because, being from Buffalo, I can say that people from Western New York do refer to themselves as Upstate New York; especially when talking to people from elsewhere in the country. It is true that there are differences among upstate regions, but quite often the main distinction that needs to be made is that being from New York State does not mean being from New York City or having much to do with the city at all. In this sense, it is common to say things like "I'm from New York.. no no, not the city, upstate." This article could certainly use something on the differences between regions and how, for example, Buffalo is fairly closely tied to Toronto. But this sentence seems to be rather saying Western New York isn't really upstate. Pfly 20:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Did anyone take a look at this? This is how the Commission on Independent Colleges and Universities categorize the different regions of New York State, would anyone agree with this?
http://www.nycolleges.org/pdfs/06LocatorMap.pdf
JRodz15 19:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The map accompanying this article is whacked. No one, and I mean no one, considers Central New York and the Hudson Valley to be associated closely enough to merit being the same color! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.238.139 ( talk) 18:49, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I've lived in Rochester, hamburg, and oswego...I have never heard of the adirondacks being called the true upstate... while buffalo calls itself western Ny and syracuse central... everyone still agrees that they are in upstate and it has nothing to do with the adirondacks. Also people in Rochester and suburbs just say they are from upstate... not central not western just upstate... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.71.141.141 ( talk) 05:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
Living in Albany, I can say I've never heard anyone from the Capital District as "Central" New York. This generally refers to Syracuse from our perspective. I'm not convinced that the "blue" edit to the map helps to clarify the issue, rather it makes the graphic definition even more obscure. This should be reconsidered and furthermore cited with references! I doubt you'll find any reference to the Capital District as "Central New York". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thepreppie ( talk • contribs) 21:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
In the interests of SANITY, it must be kept in mind that Upstate regions OVERLAP. Buffalo is the center of the Western NY region, Rochester is peripheral to it; Rochester is the major city of the Finger Lakes region, Syracuse is peripheral to it; Syracuse is the major city of the Central New York region, Utica is peripheral to it; Utica-Rome is the major metro of the Mohawk Valley region. And so on. WNY - Buffalo definitely, Rochester maybe. CNY - Syracuse definitely, Utica-Rome maybe.
The Catskills are UPSTATE FOR DOWNSTATERS. Divide the state into three cake tiers (NYC/LI, then a tier south of I-88, and then the rest). Call one "downstate," call the middle one "upstate for downstaters," and call the third one "upstate for upstaters." There, all done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.238.139 ( talk) 18:59, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
From a Canadian standpoint Upstate New York is 'unofficially recognized as part of the Golden Horseshoe'. It might warrant a note on the main page for Upstate New York. Please comment User:Brenont 14:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
List of Municipalities in the Golden Horseshoe
User:Brenont 15:01, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
There's an AFD debate now about the article Hudson Valley English, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hudson Valley English. Im asking the people here whether there really is an accent or dialect unique to the Capital area, and inviting them to vote on the deletion. Squidfryerchef 15:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I think there are 3, not 2 different regions of New York. In relation to NYC, everything else is upstate, but, within upstate itself it is pretty different. Its insulting to get asked if i'm a Buffalo fan cause i'm from upstate, when I live over 3 hours from Buffalo. Do people honestly think Buffalo has a grip on the state as far as Albany? I'd consider Western a different region in and of itself respectively. You can talk all you want about how NYC is this and Upstate is that, but when you take Upstate by itself, there are still many areas different from eachother. Buffalo and Rochester are undoubtedly their own region (Western NY), and Syracuse to Albany can be seen as Eastern NY, which includes the Binghamton region. Anyone else notice how Utica has the EXACT same longitude as Philadelphia? 131.125.115.65 ( talk) 07:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
To list a population figure for "Upstate" implies that the author has endorsed a specific definition for what is Upstate. Considering that the remainder of the article is devoted to the different perceptions of what upstate is (depending on what part of New York the person giving the definition is from), perhaps rewording to the effect that a substantial minority resides in this part of the state would be most appropriate. Raj Fra 05:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
WE ARE IN THE FUCKING MIDDLE!! MIDDLE = CENTRAL HENCE "CNY" for CENTRAL NEW YORK
singed- Anonymous Syracusean
This article is over 80KB long - according to WP:Article size, it should probably be split into smaller articles to make it easier to read and edit. Looking at the page as it is now, the most obvious candidate for a spin-off article would be List of people from Upstate New York - all the lists of people on this page could be moved to that page. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Terraxos ( talk) 13:58, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it is too long, but that's just part of the problem. Am I offbase or is the bulk of this article original research? I'm not saying it's a bad article, or that I disagree with it, but it just isn't really sourced. The style of the article makes it read more like an essay than an objective and neutral article. -- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 15:52, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
SUNY Upstate Medical University is in Syracuse, NY. This is in the yellow region, right? -- JimWae ( talk) 08:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
According to the article on black and white cookies, they originated in New York. While they may be consumed upstate, I don't think these can be described as a cultural characteristic of upstate NY. -- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 21:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
If there are no good sources, we just won't run a number. The NY metropolitan area contains much of New Jersey, so you can't just subtract that from the population of NY state and say "some of this is New Jersey." Wikipedia is not a reliable source and the last version had a footnote referring to Wikipedia.-- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 20:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to raise again the issue JBC3 brought up back in July and received no answer: what are the sources for the large map illustrating this article. It appears to be a Wikipedia editor's concept of something that is nowhere defined, which is the exact boundaries of upstate New York. This map arbitrarily has a line crossing through counties in the northern part of the state separating the green from yellow regions. Down by New York City, Orange County is divided in half between "New York exurbs" and "upstate," and Rockland County is divided between "exurbs" and "suburbs." I have some serious doubts about this kind of arbitrary division of counties, and I'd like to see some sourcing for it. If there is no sourcing, I'm afraid it will have to go. No sourcing was offered since July, but I'll give it another little while before removing.-- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 14:23, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
It seems to be that the shaded map which was previously removed should be restored. I know that there is not (and will never be) a true consensus on the issue, but the image provides a great primer on Upstate New York for somebody who just wants some background on the issue. As a lifelong upstater with extensive knowledge on the subject, I feel that the map is a very good graphical representation of the most common definitions of Upstate New York. The red section is undeniably the New York Metro area and Long Island (certainly not unfounded research). The next section also includes the exurbs of New York City, and also corresponds to Interstate 84, another good indication of a boundary. I admit the green shaded region is a little ambiguous, but it does correspond with the Adirondack Park, another very concrete region, and is known as the "North Country." So, while the map may not be perfect and is a little arbitrary, it contributes so much to the article in giving people a visual idea of Upstate. This is much easier for somebody unfamiliar to the term to interpret than the text in the article. Jasebasketball ( talk) 18:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
The contributor Farine, frustrated with the POV of some sentences, has proposed to delete the whole article. I disagree completely. Upstate New York is a region and culture distinct from downstate New York, and is eminently worthy of its own article. Don Argus jr ( talk) 06:05, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
With apologies to JMyrleFuller and other contributors to the section, I moved the "Politics" section of the Upstate New york article to a separate article, for two reasons:
1. As the length of the Upstate NY article has been criticiized, I am spinning off lengthy sections into their own articles.
2. This section seemed to be the focus of "POV" objections to the upstate New York article as a whole.
I mean to make no criticism of the content of this section (now article). Personally, I have had no objection to the lengthy and sometimes contentious nature of the Upstate article, as I think it better reflects the nature and culture of the people that way, as un-Wiki as that may be.
But under the threat of deletion, I seek to respond to the critics.
Cheers, Don Argus jr ( talk) 18:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Sigh. Good points. JMyrle, where do your figures come from? Don Argus jr ( talk) 20:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
I realize I could block User:Anne Feinstein for vandalism, but I'm going to assume good faith here: would you please explain your rationale for deleting the entire article, and insisting, quite without any sourcing, that Upstate New York is everything north of 41 degrees latitude, and the article should have no other content whatsoever? Lacking a persuasive explanation I will restore the article shortly. Thank you, Antandrus (talk) 02:33, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Having lived in various parts of New York (that's the state, as opposed to "New York City"), I've noticed there is a definite change in definition. Whereas Ulster County, for example, might have once been "Upstate," it is now considered "Downstate" by nearly everyone but those from New York City. The extension of the NY-PA border appears to be the best current demarkation. Posted from spoofed IP Address 173.161.195.122 ( talk) 17:04, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Excellent point. When Washington Irving was writing, Tarrytown was upstate too. Don Argus jr ( talk) 01:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I strongly disagree that altitude has anything to do with "upstate." If we applied this concept to Colorado, most of the western part of the state would be "upstate," because that's where the Rockies are.
No, such descriptions are purely directional: north is up, south is down; anything north of Westchester County is Upstate. Terrain that just happens to be in the northern part of the state does not enter into it. Mfwills ( talk) 13:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
We've been through this before, and the decision was to keep this article distinct. I feel justified in making a "speedy deletion" of the merge tag. Don Argus jr ( talk) 08:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I added a little commentary on the term "upperstate." This term was in wide use on radio stations and local media in the NY metro area including in New Jersey and on Long Island. Sometimes it referred to close-in suburbs like Westchester. Other times it refers to northern NY, that is, not a suburb of NYC. Both terms "upstate" and "upperstate" were in wide use and meant different things to different local people. -- KJRehberg ( talk) 21:41, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
I have lived in UPSTATE (Syracuse) all my life and have NEVER heard the term "upperstate." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.238.139 ( talk) 18:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
It should be: green: always considered upstate, blue,yellow: sometimes considered upstate
As it is right now, it is the opposite of what it should be. Some people who live in yellow do not consider themselves upstate at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.200.207 ( talk) 02:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This map gives a pretty good idea of what pro sports teams are most popular and influential upstate.
http://www.commoncensus.org/sports.php
Just click on each pro sport to see. Spooky873 ( talk) 02:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps someone can explain to me why this section is so Rochester-centric, and why 11 out of 16 paragraphs (plus a table!!!) in the "upstate culture" section concern Rochester sports teams, some exceedingly minor and obscure.
Nothing against Rochester, but it is but one of many upstate cities, and of those it is not even the largest. The two professional-level teams upstate (the NFL's Bills and NHL's Sabres) get barely a passing mention before the article delves into the litany of obscure Rochester sports teams.
Either all of that Rochester-sports trivia should be deleted, or else all that information should be added for all other upstate cities (i.e. every other city has tons of minor sports teams as well, eg. Buffalo Bandits lacrosse, Buffalo Bisons baseball, UB Bulls football, St. Bonaventure basketball, Niagara Univ. hockey, etc.) 140.251.125.50 ( talk) 21:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Matt
Edit: I've tried to rectify the situation somewhat by adding some Buffalo-specific information to balance out the overwhelming amount of Rochester stuff. The section probably still needs some improvement though. 140.251.125.50 ( talk) 22:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Matt
based on this article one would surmise 80-% of upstate was in the Rochester media market. Are you guys all drunk on Genesee? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.9.141.78 ( talk) 23:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
EDIT! The stuff about Rochester and Buffalo sports is simply excessive and needs to be gone. At the very least, start a separate section within the article for "Sports" instead of dumping all of it into "Culture!" Or consider starting a new separate article for Upstate sports teams. Good God. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.239.88 ( talk) 19:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
See the new article Athletics in Upstate New York, where I have moved most of this. Don Argus jr ( talk) 19:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
This article previously stated that President Bush managed to win Upstate New York. Upon reviewing the election results I discovered this to be incorrect.
Subtracting the five counties of New York City (Bronx, Kings, New York, Queens and Richmond) from the vote total leaves Senator Kerry with 2,486,265 votes to 2,375,033 for President Bush. Going further and subtracting Long Island (Nassau and Suffolk counties) as well as Rockland county and Westchester country leaves Senator Kerry with 1,553,246 votes to 1,551,971 votes for President Bush. A margin of 1,275 votes.
If you double check the results from my source you will find this to be the case. Remember that you need to include the vote totals from the Conservative Party for Bush and the Working Families Party for Kerry because of New York State's Electoral fusion laws.
Source: http://www.elections.state.ny.us/elections/2004/president04.pdf from The NYS Board of Elections, Election results
--
Tchaika 19:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC).
Good find. I had heard that before that without downstate, upstate was all Bush but that is totally false. Thank you
Spooky873 (
talk) 02:09, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Tchaika, could you add your sources to the "Politics" section of the article? It's coming under criticism for being uncited. Thanks,
Don Argus jr (
talk) 20:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Although the article correctly points out that Westchester is not considered to be Upstate, the map contradicts this. Nelson Ricardo 04:52, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
Pharos; your changes reverted my change that changed "outside of NYC" to "north of NYC". To say "outside the core of NYC" would falsely include parts of Long Island as Upstate New York. Chances are that was a mistake, but in any case I'm explaining myself as per Wikipedia policy. -- Bletch 17:07, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The TZ Bridge is a major psychological barrier, ..I'd say Rockland is as far flung for NYC residents as Westchester past I-287
Upstate New Yorkers ought to be allowed to define themselves. What New York City residents think "Upstate" is, is of no relevance.
In my experience, there are at least three definitions that are commonly used for Upstate New York:
-- ThorstenNY 06:56, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
I decided to remove the "minimum 7,000 students" from the list of Upstate New York colleges. This is partly because many of the colleges on the list (i.e. RPI, Hamilton College, Colgate University, Skidmore College, Clarkson University, & several listed SUNYs) have less than 7,000 students, and also, I do not believe that a school having at least 7,000 students makes it major or noticeable. Don't change this unless you leave a talk comment. -- Jondude11 02:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed this text from the article: While Upstate New York may include the Buffalo Metro Area, people from Western New York almost never, refer to themselves as "Upstaters", this is mostly due to the fact that the Buffalo Metro Area is connected to the Greater Toronto Area, and many who live there do not fit the description of the rest of Upstate New York. Because, being from Buffalo, I can say that people from Western New York do refer to themselves as Upstate New York; especially when talking to people from elsewhere in the country. It is true that there are differences among upstate regions, but quite often the main distinction that needs to be made is that being from New York State does not mean being from New York City or having much to do with the city at all. In this sense, it is common to say things like "I'm from New York.. no no, not the city, upstate." This article could certainly use something on the differences between regions and how, for example, Buffalo is fairly closely tied to Toronto. But this sentence seems to be rather saying Western New York isn't really upstate. Pfly 20:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Did anyone take a look at this? This is how the Commission on Independent Colleges and Universities categorize the different regions of New York State, would anyone agree with this?
http://www.nycolleges.org/pdfs/06LocatorMap.pdf
JRodz15 19:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The map accompanying this article is whacked. No one, and I mean no one, considers Central New York and the Hudson Valley to be associated closely enough to merit being the same color! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.238.139 ( talk) 18:49, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
I've lived in Rochester, hamburg, and oswego...I have never heard of the adirondacks being called the true upstate... while buffalo calls itself western Ny and syracuse central... everyone still agrees that they are in upstate and it has nothing to do with the adirondacks. Also people in Rochester and suburbs just say they are from upstate... not central not western just upstate... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.71.141.141 ( talk) 05:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
Living in Albany, I can say I've never heard anyone from the Capital District as "Central" New York. This generally refers to Syracuse from our perspective. I'm not convinced that the "blue" edit to the map helps to clarify the issue, rather it makes the graphic definition even more obscure. This should be reconsidered and furthermore cited with references! I doubt you'll find any reference to the Capital District as "Central New York". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thepreppie ( talk • contribs) 21:24, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
In the interests of SANITY, it must be kept in mind that Upstate regions OVERLAP. Buffalo is the center of the Western NY region, Rochester is peripheral to it; Rochester is the major city of the Finger Lakes region, Syracuse is peripheral to it; Syracuse is the major city of the Central New York region, Utica is peripheral to it; Utica-Rome is the major metro of the Mohawk Valley region. And so on. WNY - Buffalo definitely, Rochester maybe. CNY - Syracuse definitely, Utica-Rome maybe.
The Catskills are UPSTATE FOR DOWNSTATERS. Divide the state into three cake tiers (NYC/LI, then a tier south of I-88, and then the rest). Call one "downstate," call the middle one "upstate for downstaters," and call the third one "upstate for upstaters." There, all done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.238.139 ( talk) 18:59, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
From a Canadian standpoint Upstate New York is 'unofficially recognized as part of the Golden Horseshoe'. It might warrant a note on the main page for Upstate New York. Please comment User:Brenont 14:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
List of Municipalities in the Golden Horseshoe
User:Brenont 15:01, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
There's an AFD debate now about the article Hudson Valley English, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hudson Valley English. Im asking the people here whether there really is an accent or dialect unique to the Capital area, and inviting them to vote on the deletion. Squidfryerchef 15:47, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I think there are 3, not 2 different regions of New York. In relation to NYC, everything else is upstate, but, within upstate itself it is pretty different. Its insulting to get asked if i'm a Buffalo fan cause i'm from upstate, when I live over 3 hours from Buffalo. Do people honestly think Buffalo has a grip on the state as far as Albany? I'd consider Western a different region in and of itself respectively. You can talk all you want about how NYC is this and Upstate is that, but when you take Upstate by itself, there are still many areas different from eachother. Buffalo and Rochester are undoubtedly their own region (Western NY), and Syracuse to Albany can be seen as Eastern NY, which includes the Binghamton region. Anyone else notice how Utica has the EXACT same longitude as Philadelphia? 131.125.115.65 ( talk) 07:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
To list a population figure for "Upstate" implies that the author has endorsed a specific definition for what is Upstate. Considering that the remainder of the article is devoted to the different perceptions of what upstate is (depending on what part of New York the person giving the definition is from), perhaps rewording to the effect that a substantial minority resides in this part of the state would be most appropriate. Raj Fra 05:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
WE ARE IN THE FUCKING MIDDLE!! MIDDLE = CENTRAL HENCE "CNY" for CENTRAL NEW YORK
singed- Anonymous Syracusean
This article is over 80KB long - according to WP:Article size, it should probably be split into smaller articles to make it easier to read and edit. Looking at the page as it is now, the most obvious candidate for a spin-off article would be List of people from Upstate New York - all the lists of people on this page could be moved to that page. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Terraxos ( talk) 13:58, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it is too long, but that's just part of the problem. Am I offbase or is the bulk of this article original research? I'm not saying it's a bad article, or that I disagree with it, but it just isn't really sourced. The style of the article makes it read more like an essay than an objective and neutral article. -- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 15:52, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
SUNY Upstate Medical University is in Syracuse, NY. This is in the yellow region, right? -- JimWae ( talk) 08:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
According to the article on black and white cookies, they originated in New York. While they may be consumed upstate, I don't think these can be described as a cultural characteristic of upstate NY. -- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 21:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
If there are no good sources, we just won't run a number. The NY metropolitan area contains much of New Jersey, so you can't just subtract that from the population of NY state and say "some of this is New Jersey." Wikipedia is not a reliable source and the last version had a footnote referring to Wikipedia.-- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 20:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to raise again the issue JBC3 brought up back in July and received no answer: what are the sources for the large map illustrating this article. It appears to be a Wikipedia editor's concept of something that is nowhere defined, which is the exact boundaries of upstate New York. This map arbitrarily has a line crossing through counties in the northern part of the state separating the green from yellow regions. Down by New York City, Orange County is divided in half between "New York exurbs" and "upstate," and Rockland County is divided between "exurbs" and "suburbs." I have some serious doubts about this kind of arbitrary division of counties, and I'd like to see some sourcing for it. If there is no sourcing, I'm afraid it will have to go. No sourcing was offered since July, but I'll give it another little while before removing.-- JohnnyB256 ( talk) 14:23, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
It seems to be that the shaded map which was previously removed should be restored. I know that there is not (and will never be) a true consensus on the issue, but the image provides a great primer on Upstate New York for somebody who just wants some background on the issue. As a lifelong upstater with extensive knowledge on the subject, I feel that the map is a very good graphical representation of the most common definitions of Upstate New York. The red section is undeniably the New York Metro area and Long Island (certainly not unfounded research). The next section also includes the exurbs of New York City, and also corresponds to Interstate 84, another good indication of a boundary. I admit the green shaded region is a little ambiguous, but it does correspond with the Adirondack Park, another very concrete region, and is known as the "North Country." So, while the map may not be perfect and is a little arbitrary, it contributes so much to the article in giving people a visual idea of Upstate. This is much easier for somebody unfamiliar to the term to interpret than the text in the article. Jasebasketball ( talk) 18:09, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
The contributor Farine, frustrated with the POV of some sentences, has proposed to delete the whole article. I disagree completely. Upstate New York is a region and culture distinct from downstate New York, and is eminently worthy of its own article. Don Argus jr ( talk) 06:05, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
With apologies to JMyrleFuller and other contributors to the section, I moved the "Politics" section of the Upstate New york article to a separate article, for two reasons:
1. As the length of the Upstate NY article has been criticiized, I am spinning off lengthy sections into their own articles.
2. This section seemed to be the focus of "POV" objections to the upstate New York article as a whole.
I mean to make no criticism of the content of this section (now article). Personally, I have had no objection to the lengthy and sometimes contentious nature of the Upstate article, as I think it better reflects the nature and culture of the people that way, as un-Wiki as that may be.
But under the threat of deletion, I seek to respond to the critics.
Cheers, Don Argus jr ( talk) 18:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Sigh. Good points. JMyrle, where do your figures come from? Don Argus jr ( talk) 20:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
I realize I could block User:Anne Feinstein for vandalism, but I'm going to assume good faith here: would you please explain your rationale for deleting the entire article, and insisting, quite without any sourcing, that Upstate New York is everything north of 41 degrees latitude, and the article should have no other content whatsoever? Lacking a persuasive explanation I will restore the article shortly. Thank you, Antandrus (talk) 02:33, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Having lived in various parts of New York (that's the state, as opposed to "New York City"), I've noticed there is a definite change in definition. Whereas Ulster County, for example, might have once been "Upstate," it is now considered "Downstate" by nearly everyone but those from New York City. The extension of the NY-PA border appears to be the best current demarkation. Posted from spoofed IP Address 173.161.195.122 ( talk) 17:04, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Excellent point. When Washington Irving was writing, Tarrytown was upstate too. Don Argus jr ( talk) 01:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I strongly disagree that altitude has anything to do with "upstate." If we applied this concept to Colorado, most of the western part of the state would be "upstate," because that's where the Rockies are.
No, such descriptions are purely directional: north is up, south is down; anything north of Westchester County is Upstate. Terrain that just happens to be in the northern part of the state does not enter into it. Mfwills ( talk) 13:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
We've been through this before, and the decision was to keep this article distinct. I feel justified in making a "speedy deletion" of the merge tag. Don Argus jr ( talk) 08:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I added a little commentary on the term "upperstate." This term was in wide use on radio stations and local media in the NY metro area including in New Jersey and on Long Island. Sometimes it referred to close-in suburbs like Westchester. Other times it refers to northern NY, that is, not a suburb of NYC. Both terms "upstate" and "upperstate" were in wide use and meant different things to different local people. -- KJRehberg ( talk) 21:41, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
I have lived in UPSTATE (Syracuse) all my life and have NEVER heard the term "upperstate." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.238.139 ( talk) 18:51, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
It should be: green: always considered upstate, blue,yellow: sometimes considered upstate
As it is right now, it is the opposite of what it should be. Some people who live in yellow do not consider themselves upstate at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.200.207 ( talk) 02:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC)