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Probably not the first to suggest so, but... shouldn't the article be called "United States of America", with a disambiguation for "United States", since technically that's also the name of The United Mexican States? Just a suggestion.
I was charting the growth of the article over the last couple of weeks using User talk:Dr pda/prosesize.js and thought I'd share the results:
Current http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&curid=3434750&oldid=141$ (150k)
From the end of the most recent FAC: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&oldid=139239542 (133k)
From the start of the FAC process: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&oldid=135527718 (114k)
It's worth noting that there are a fair number of template:main articles linked here that require a fair bit of cleanup or that don't contain many of the points that are new to this article. The pre-FAC/mid-May suggestion that the article be broken up isn't viable, as those articles do already exist. That said, it might help us try to get back to a more effective article length to go through and take the scissors to the article, carefully cutting few dozen sentences after moving their key points and references to the main articles. MrZaius talk 18:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
According to one of the sources used in the Spanish language article it will. Looks like POV to me.
I totally agree. It's the Spanish language page editors that don't.
It's not so pov, it's a reality. -- Tones benefit 12:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The most that any of this implies is that if current demographic trends continue, then that would lead to Spanish being the majority language in that length of time. However, that is plenty of time for the trends to change entirely. Spanish-speaking people could stop immigrating, there could be waves of speakers of Croatian starting to arrive instead, Spanish-speakers in the US could start using English as their primary language so that their descendants don't even know Spanish, birth and/or death rates can change dramatically... lots of stuff can happen. We're not a crystal ball. *Dan T.* 18:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone should add Tiger Woods to the famous athletes in the sports section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.210.235 ( talk) 06:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I came here mostly to look at the coverage of culture, but I read through the entire article and was very impressed. I also looked through the recent edit history to get a sense of what's been going on. I have to say, I find it very odd, this resistance against coverage of America's major current war. I've restored the essential data about how much it has cost and how many Americans have given their lives to it--this seems to me very basic information that the average reader would hope and expect to find in this article. Of course there are all sorts of minute details that belong in the specific article on the war and not here, but to claim that these fundamental data points about one of the most important actions of the country at present are in some way not "relevant" is just stupid, and, I suspect, ideologically motivated.
A few other things I think need to be covered:
Alright, I'll dismount from my high horse. I'm happy to discuss/debate any and all of these matters. Just don't say that an accounting of the U.S. citizens who are currently dying in the U.S.'s war doesn't belong in the U.S. article.-- DocKino 07:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
In the last sentence under Sports the claim is made that "Several American athletes have become world famous, in particular baseball player Babe Ruth, boxer Muhammad Ali, and basketball player Michael Jordan.". Tiger Woods was just removed from that list by someone claiming he isn't famous enough, but Babe Ruth remains, even though Baseball is nowhere near as popular anywhere else in the world as it is in the US. As a European I can say that in my experience Tiger Woods is a household name over here, while no-one ever mentions Babe Ruth. I'd believe the claim if there was any source for it, but there isn't, so it looks like speculation to me.
i don't believe the source states that the oil fields being flown over by the air force jets in the picture are kuwaiti... they may very well be iraqi, and the kuwaiti reference should probably be replaced — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.156.166.51 ( talk)
yea, that's definately kuwati oil fields set on fire by the retreating iraqis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.40.117 ( talk) 22:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Why has senate majority leader been placed in the government section? It is not a constitutional position and truthfully holds no power other than what it is granted by the members of the majority party. Also, I noticed that ever since Nancy Pelosi became speaker there has been a battle to keep her in the government section (this was never even considered when Dennis Hasteret was speaker). It seems that someone just wants to flaunt the fact that the democrats have control of congress by adding every position they can think of or someone is just getting to wrapped up in being fair. In my opinion it should either have only the president (the constitutional head of state) or the leaders of all three branches of government (president, vice-president, speaker, and chief justice) and thats it. In any event majority leader should not be included because it is not a constitutional office. President pro temp. of the senate has a more legitimate claim because it is a constitutional office and third in line to the presidency, majority leader is neither of these. And since I cannot remove it, can someone else?
Someone keeps remoing my information about New Zealand and the ANZUS Treaty from under military and foreign relations, even though the information is encyclopedic verifiable and comes straight from this very website.... why is that?? Murchy 16:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
The government section states that the United States is the oldest federation in the world. This should either be changed to something like the oldest continuous federation in the world (as recommended by the FAQ page) or removed, since Switzerland was declared a federation in the year 1291. See: Federal Charter of 1291. — —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.94.49 ( talk • contribs) 17:49, 30 August 2007(UTC)
I have added two new sections to the FAQ. Tell me if you think that they are proper additions. (As the FAQ section is meant to be anonymous, I request that you do not add {{unsigned}} to this comment.
Why does this article lack a subdivisions section, or a template to guide readers to the 50 states and overseas holdings of the United States? I believe more readers would come to a "United States" article seeking pointers to Iowa, Maine, Nebraska, Arizona and Kentucky than, for example, the number of dead and wounded from a current engagement overseas. Is this article not overseen by the WikiProject on Countries? Should it not then follow its guidance? The relevant guideline suggests that these articles give a "Quick overview of the administrative subdivisions of the country. Name the section after the first level of subdivisions (e.g. provinces, states, departments, etc.) and give the English name. Also include overseas possessions. Link to "(subdivisions) of X". This section could also include an overview map of the country." As a side note, this article is still terribly bloated. Have you considered making more effective use of summary style, specifically in the "Income and social class", "History", and "Crime and punishment" sections? I'm sure that there aren't to many who would fault you for implementing trims in those sections. Geuiwogbil 13:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
The first chapter of the "Postwar superpower" section equated the United States and Soviet Union in a misleading way. It downplayed the significance of US allies such as the UK and France, which had their own military doctrines and nuclear weapons unlike any of the Soviet allies. It stated that both supported dictatorships as if the countries had a similar view on democracy. It equated American anti-communists such as McCarthy with communists by stating that they attempted to suppress opposition like the Communist Party in communist countries. McCarthy never imprisoned and tortured members of the Democratic Party like communists did with their opposition. Moreover, there wasn't just one Communist Party in each Eastern Bloc country. In East Germany, for instance, there were several parties. Nazi activity was suppressed in several West European countries after WWII. Does that mean political opposition was suppressed like in communist countries? No. The chapter had to be rewritten to more accurately reflect actual history.-- Kelstonian 17:25, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
This is unrelated to the discussion above, but why does this section mention Bush and the Axis of Evil? As I remember his speech, it mentioned the Axis of Evil only shortly, however, it was quite some time ago. It seems to me that, when one is compacting so much history into such a small section (albeit, the section has many links, but let's just say that the average lazy internet bum isn't going to play around with those links), wouldn't it be more efficient to remove said Axis of Evil speech and simply say,
"In late 2002, the Bush administration pressed for regime change in Iraq on controversial grounds, and, in 2003, a Coalition of the Willing invaded Iraq, removing President Saddam Hussein. Although facing both external[36] and internal[37] pressure to withdraw, the United States maintains its military presence in Iraq at this time."
I suggest that "at this time" be added, for the reason that the US Congress is, at this time, requesting that a withdrawl be performed, and a sizable portion of the population is as well. I'm not Democrat or anything (in fact, just the opposite), but it just seems...better. Also, perhaps a link could be added after 'time'. It really shouldn't be that hard to find some evidence that the US is still in Iraq :P. Cronos2546 00:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)Cronos2546
-- Jolo Buki Original 14:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
The FAQ says (in part): "If, after reading the following summary points and all the discussion, you wish to ask a question or contribute your opinion to the discussion, then please do so at Talk:United States. The only way that we can be sure of ongoing consensus is if people contribute." Therefore it is appropriate for Jolo Buki Original to give his opinion here(this being Talk:United States), and for me to give mine. I believe the article would be better named United States of America; it's not an overly long name, its meaning is clearer, and it is generally accepted as the correct name. Thank you. 81.157.63.35 20:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the opening paragraphs need to be reconsidered for NPOV. There's alot of emotive language in there and I can see why it could be hard to leave that out when most of the editors are likely American, but it's unnecessary. I think it could be altered to be more objective is all :) Sean 23:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
That's all debatable, but I forgot to talk about the colonial revolt thing. The term "colonial war of independence" implies that colonists rebelled against the colonizing country. Indians were not colonists. New England (C) (H) 20:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
RE Woodstone:
Thanks for giving exmaples. Regards, Signature brendel 21:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I notice the intro says "The American Civil War ended slavery in the United States," which is untrue. Slavery existed for several months after the Civil War, it was ended by the 13th Amendment after the Civil War. The artle also goes on to say that the North abolished slavery by 1804, when the truth is Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, West Virginia, Washington D.C. had slavery during the Civil War. New Jersey kept slaves over a certain age as "apprentices for life" until the 13th Amendment. -- "Dominant economic, political, military, and cultural force": There needs to be a lot more explicit evidence to claim that USA is a dominant cultural force, which is far from obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.29.252 ( talk) 23:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree with this slavery discrepancy. Several northern states, particularly New York, had slavery until the 1830s (not 1804 as stated in the article). It is also true that slavery existed after the Civil War until the 13th Amendment, at least in non-Confederate States. Thus, the 13th Amendment ended slavery, not the Civil War. This needs to be addressed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.169.37 ( talk) 02:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, on slavery again--no matter how many times it has been edited, people keep changing it to an incorrect statement. Now it reads, "The North's victory prevented a split and ended slavery." Again this is only half true. The North's victory ended slavery in the South (it could be argued this way, since the CSA didn't see Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation as legitimate thus defeat legitimized it) but did nothing to Slavery in the North, in DC, or the Border States. This needs to read the 13th Amendment ended slavery in order maintain historical accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theboondocksaint ( talk • contribs) 08:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
":::5) The word "great" power is judgmental. They are "powerful" " - The term
great power has a specific meaning which is warranted.
Captain Crush
00:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, I'm sure this issue has already come up before. I'm justing wondering why a scroll template isn't neccessary in the reference section when there's nearly 200 reference links? I can't seem to find the "warning on the scoll template page" anywhere, and I'm not going to scroll through all 28 archive pages to find the discussion about it. 24.21.130.80 16:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the sentence that said that the US economy is the largest in the world. I've added the sentence: "second if the EU's economy is counted.". I think that is a fact that should be in it, it just makes the picture complete. Whether people do want to count in the EU or not, that is up to them, but it is a fact that the EU's economy is slightly larger than that of the US. -- Robster1983 20:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
True, the EU economy is larger than that of the U.S., but the U.S. economy is the largest national economy in the world. The article did not state the U.S. to have the world's largest economy (such a statement is disputable) - it only states the U.S. to have the world's largest national economy - a statement which is indisputable. Regards, Signature brendel 00:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The US economy section was horribly unbalanced against the US (yet again). I took the appropriate steps and made it (somewhat) better. -- Rotten 05:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the party affiliation diagram. States like Texas don't register party membership, and the sampling of states that do is not representative of the whole United States. -- Davidstrauss 22:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
America follows in the way of the Wu Tang. Cash rules everything around me CREAM get the money, dolla dolla bill ya'll. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolguyforshore ( talk • contribs) 15:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Golbez has removed the partisan membership chart becuase he/she thinks that Independent implies third party membership. It does not. "Independent" simply means that a person is not a part of either the Republican nor Democratic Party. Please see the source used for further information. There absolutely nothing desceptive about this chart. It merely shows the size of America's two big parties. Regards, Signature brendel 18:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
There's still a lot here in the relatively polished History and Culture sections that aren't in the slightly messy B-class articles at History of the United States and Culture of the United States. I'm of half a mind to take our History section and use that as the basis for a rewrite of the History article, although I haven't had time to get started on it. Merge back the other article into our section and split that into a new article, and it'd be starting out with a ton of strong sources, etc. Will hopefully start over the weekend. MrZaius talk 12:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't part of the length due to the references section, which stands at 4102 words, or around 28 kilobytes? In which case, the actual size is somewhere around 123 kilobytes. — Viriditas | Talk 22:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the last few comments, I'm talking about length of prose, not the size of the article (including references) measured in kb. It's a better than it was before its last FAC, but there is still work to do. I'm not sure why this article must be longer than FA quality country articles, particularly the history section. Much of that extra detail should go into the sub-articles. -- Merbabu 00:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Exactly: I'm not arguing that the history section is poorly written or overly verbose, I'm saying it's better written and more thouroughly sourced than History of the United States, and, merged back, it would make a great start towards GA/FA there, and allow us to cut 10k of prose and 20k of source right off the top. Same applies to the Culture section. Here's the current stats on the article:
As you can see, even the prose is something like 30k over what WP:LENGTH recommends. When I break a copy of the history section out into a sandbox, I get the following stats for it:
Compared to History of the United States:
As you can tell, the neglected parent for the history section is only twice as long as the prose of the current history section. Almost entirely unsourced, I'm awfully tempted to take the significant ideas in that article not already covered in our History section, introduce them into it, and then move it back over the pre-existing article at History of the United States. Won't be simple or happen overnight, but it does seem warranted. Doing that alone would allow us to cut the history section here in half, shooting for ~7k of prose, so that it reads more like summary of the main article. Note that there's also a number of similarly detailed sections here that are better written and more thouroughly sourced than their parent articles. Rinse, wash, repeat, and we can get this article pared down to the point that it is both strong and concise enough to survive its Nth FAC. MrZaius talk 01:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the article is too long. It should however be shortened, not splitup. The article treats the History elaborately, not briefly, while there's an article already treating the history of US. The Government and politics refers to 4 main articles – isn't that an indication that "Government and politics of US" should be an article in itself? While some very brief text about Government and politics can remain in this article. Maybe same for Foreign relations and military later? Economy and Demographics maybe have more than something in common, and may be merged, shortened and it's content lifted over to a new article? Same for Culture. As regards comparisons to Encyclopedia Britannica – Wikipedia is too different to be compared. That aside, I think classical encyclopediae are much overrated, and shouldn't be used for citations, like Wikipedia shouldn't. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 10:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't seem to see much criticism in this article. Won't this be an NPOV problem? Kleinbell 02:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Whilst I am aware that being commonwealths is merely to have a different name, I do feel that the fact that 4 of the "states" are techincally not states but commonwealths (and are merely considered to be states for the sake of simplicity and convenience) should be mentioned at least somewhere in the article, with a link to the Commonwealth (United States) article. I have attempted to put it in to instructions of various users who revert my previous attempts to put it in, but other users seem to disagree and revert it still. Anyway, what do people think about this? ChaosSorcerer91 09:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that there was a change from "white" to "Caucasian" and back recently, yet neither party has mentioned their rationale on the talk page. Personally, I prefer the term Caucasian. Ben Hocking ( talk| contribs) 22:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, to users from Russia and Esatern Europe, the term "Caucasian" or "Kavkazian" would be confusing. In russian, "Caucasian"/"Kavkazian" refers to people who are from the Caucasus mountains, and who are anything but white... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.7.43 ( talk) 00:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Either way using the term white is rather quite odd since we don't call 'black' people black, but rather african American. If were going to do that than 'white' people should now on be refered to as European Americans. I think it sounds rather dumb but so does african Americans, being white people can also come from africa. I'd very much like it if someone changed either african American to 'black' or changed 'white' to European American. I've yet to figure this editing thing out...-- SimaZao 19:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe that the terms "white" and "black" seem somewhat outdated since they were conceived during the slave trade, and there is really no such thing as white or black skin. "Caucasian" and "Subsaharan" seem more appropriate in identifying both physical appearance and ethnic identity. Furthermore, terms such as "European American" and "African American" should refer to national ancestry regardless of ethnic background, seeing as how there are both Caucasian Africans and Subsaharan Europeans. Unfortunately, "white" and "black," as both physical and ethnic labels, seem far too established into the American lexicon so it may be quite some time before they are superceded by any other less color-oriented terms. M5891 21:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Canada has "Canadian", Mexico has "Mexican" but for some reason there is a generalization to call someone from the USA, "American", is there a specific name for someone from the USA?
There is at least one other discussion of this that has some alternatives somewhere in the archives. I really do not want to dig through them right now (almost 11pm), so I'll leave it to someone else, preferably the asker. — Jaxad 0127 04:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
See American (word) or Alternative words for American or Alternative adjectives for U.S. citizens, kthx. — RVJ 22:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
If "Mexican is a legitimate name for people from the United States of Mexico (thats its full title), then "American" seems fine for people from United States of America.
well, maybe something like- The US guy, The US computer, etc, because if you say American you are talking about America. It's not wrong, but you're not specifying if it's from US, mexico, bolvia, etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.213.99.230 ( talk) 02:09, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
An American from the US is a US American. 82.71.48.158 17:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Just to be clear, there is a "specific name for someone from the USA." That name is "American." Is the term exclusive to U.S. nationals? Technically, no. Anyone from North, Central, or South America could arguably be referred to as an "American," but that's not how the word is used in the English language.— DCGeist 23:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
It is true, unfurtunatly, that the word American is currently used in the English laguage for the U.S. citizens, or yankee. This comes from a time where Europe was the cultural and economic center of the world and many immigrant, wanting to come to the new world, usually came to the U.S. since it was close to Europe. This resulted in Europeans calling U.S. Citizens, Americans. It is technically incorrect and offensive to many other people that live in other parts of North and South America. There are better ways to call Americans and the fact that the U.S. is the only country with the world america in it doesn't mean aything. If you wan to be technical, then then you would notice the name states United States Of America. Meaning that the U.S. is in America, not the whole america, so anyone living in America, using the correct wordly term, is called American, and not only U.S. citizens. As for a shorter and nicer way to call Americans, would be Yankee, It's short and looks cool since it has two e's. As for the southern people that could get angry at that, then just make up the word United Statian which at least three major laguages in the world alreaddy have (Spanish, French, and Portuguese). I cannot accept the fact that the Engligh laguage is so poor that they don't even have a word for an United States Citizens that is politically correct. 20:08 08 September 2007 —Preceding Daniel4swcomment added by Daniel4sw ( talk • contribs) 00:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to make two points:
1st) I believe it should put in the article that there is an informal movement at the other American countries (already adopted by some press organs) to change the U.S.A. people and U.S.A.-related things to "North-American", "Anglo-American" and "estadunidense" (Portuguese) and "estadounidense" (Spanish), both meaning "United-Stater" or "United-Statean";
2nd) And, as a non-"United-Stater" (I'm Brazilian), I should agree with the ones complaining about the "American" word use. It is offensive for anyone outside U.S.A.(even Canadians), as the term "Yankees" is offensive for the U.S. citizens. At least "US American" could be used, since it's short and precise. -- Ivan Linares 18:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I hope they do change it. I see myself as not just a Canadian, but an American too. But I do not call myself an American, because people would think I am from the USA (which I am definately not). I would like to someday be able to call myself an American and not have anyone even think for a moment that I mean I am from the United States of America (but not rule this out as a possibility, as they too are Americans). Someone start a petition? lol 142.165.59.39 ( talk) 01:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
What has Germany got to do with Asia? What do your passports read? Thank you! -- Camaeron ( talk) 19:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that people who are offended by people from the US calling themselves Americans have thought the issue through entirely. If refering to your nationality you would still use the term Canadian or Mexican. And if you wanted to say that you were from North America you would still have to say North American because their are two American continants. People call themselves after the name of their country, peolple from Canada call themselves Canadian, people from Mexico call themselves Mexican, people from Brazil call themselves Brazilian. So I think people from America should be able to call themselves American after all the reference is clear. If you were from Canada and wanted to say you were from North America you wouldn't say you were American any way so I don't see a problem. Please don't get angry. Just think about what I've said and consider it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.247.66 ( talk) 02:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
"American" can be both a national and continental term. An American in the national sense would be a native of the United States of America, and in the continental sense would be a native of either one of the American continents. Still, the U.S.A. is the only nation with "America" in its name and only natives of the U.S.A. generally refer to themselves as Americans, as does most of the international community. A similar comparison would be New York City to New York state. "New Yorker" could be applied either to a native of the state or, more specifically, a resident of the city. Yet whenever someone speaks or hears of "New York," he or she is most often referring to or imagining the city rather than the entire state. This is the same situation with the American nation over the American continents. M5891 22:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
The Crime portion of the Crime and Punishment section concentrates almost exclusively on Homicide and portrays the sole cause as lax gun controls. Property crime is given a single sentence with no numbers and an incorrect statement. The source shows about a 50% greater incidence in burglary in the England. Apwvt 16:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't sure where else to post this, but this seemed like the best place. I've noticed several times that when American, as in American person, is used in Wikipedia that it links to this article. Since there are many good editors involved in this project, I thought I would propose an idea for a separate article entitled American People (United States) with the "(United States)" part included to distinguish it from the current American people disambiguation page.
This article would be different from the current Demography of the United States article, which is almost entirely about reporting statistics. I was thinking the proposed article would be more literary in style, using those statistics but commenting on them as well. The United States is one of the most diverse countries on Earth, and the way in which people use the word "American" varies greatly both inside the country and out. To begin with, there is the history of immigration and sense of past identity. Many places in the Northeast and West coast will self-identify by ethnicity, calling themselves "Irish" or "Italian" even if they are U.S. born. In my own travels, these people are usually not regarded as "Irish" or "Italians" in Ireland or Italy, but as Americans, plain and simple. That is only one of the differences. There is also the interesting trend in the census that many white Southerners self-identify as "American," without any mention of their ethnicity. Is this because of a stronger sense of past association with the land? Does it have something to do with the dense population of African-Americans in that area as well? And while we're on the topic of race, that plays an important role in how an "American" views him or herself also, as does religion.
I think it would be a fascinating topic. I would start it myself if I could, but I know for a fact I won't be able to write it myself. What I wrote above is based mostly on observation, but I'm sure that there are studies that we can cite to this extent also. If other people are interested in doing this, I'll do my part to get the ball rolling. SpiderMMB 02:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be a mistake under etymology. The name America was not, as many people think derived from Amerigo Vespucci, but from Richard Ameryk, who was the cheif investor in one of the voyages of Giovanni Caboto (John Cabot), who arrived several years before Vespucci. citation: The Book of General Ignorance, Faber 2006 79.66.205.109 16:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I removed the last sentence of the etymology page:
"The prevailing use of American as synonymous with U.S. citizen has aroused controversy, particularly in Latin America, where Spanish and Portuguese speakers refer to themselves as americanos and use estadounidense to describe a person from the United States.
I happen to speak Spanish and have done a good bit of work with Central Americans and Mexicanos. They call people from the US Americanos not themselves. While the soursed word 'estadounidense' does appear to exist it is not common usage. The reference cited does nothing to verify the alleged controversy this has aroused. If there is a controversy somewhere about the commonyuse of the term American and Americano to refer to the citizens of the United States I'd be curios to read about it. Query 06:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Good point. I didn't see that sentence. It's true, I only have been learning Spanish for about 1 year, and I've heard my Spanish teacher tell us that Americans are callled americanos. -- Iluvmesodou 07:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
In fact... In spanish you have to say Estadounidenses. It's commonly said also Yankies or Gringos. You will also hear Americano and Norte Americano but that is an error. It's somehow like hearing saying Chinos to people from Japan. You will hear unendlessley Americano as "American" (US) but officially it's Estadounidense.
I'm from Argentina —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.213.99.230 ( talk) 02:13, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
I am Latin American and I happen to say that America is a continent, not a country (as people from all other countries do). The word "americanos" in Portuguese and Spanish refer mainly to people in the continent America (there is no other word in any of these languages to refer to people in such continent) and sometimes, by an anglicist influence, it may also refer to people who live in the USA. However, for this case there is also the term "estadounidense". So, in order to avoid any misunderstandings, in Portuguese and Spanish people tend to use "americano" in association with the continent and "estadounidense" when talking about the country. The term "the Americas" in reference to the continent seems to be coloquial. In all other languages the name of the western continent is "America". I think calling the country USA by the name "America" is not correct because that is not its official name, but it is the name of the continent. It is a linguistic feature but it is incorrect and should be avoided. It would be same as calling people from Spain by the term "castellanos", when everybody knows that Castela is just one region of Spain. This is a very simple problem to solve. America is a continent and American is a person living in this continent. The United States of America constitute one country in the American continent and people from this country are "U.S. citizens", who carry "U.S passports", granted by the "U.S. Department of State", and so on. I hope this might help, and eventually solve the 'problem'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.211.91 ( talk) 23:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thats a bizzare claim. Has great irony, yes, but Im not sure its appropriate for an encyclopedic article. I dont think that illegal supstances are frequently even considered as candidates for cash crops of a country; typically the concept is used only in relation to legal farming. Its simply outside the normal use of the concept of a cash crop. Its particularly problematic by being in the 'economy' section of the article, since it reffers to a part of the black market economy, while common economic indicators naturally focus on the legal sectory of the economy, so its incongruent. The article on Afganistan for instance does not mention poppy as its 'leading cash crop', but in the 'history' section as one of the problems it stuggles with while being rebuild. Only a single article is referenced for this unusual claim, and given that it reports data from a drug reform advocate, in an article clearly focused on the ironic value of this claim, perhaps it would be better to find more official pronouncement of 'leading cash crops' for inclusion of such bizzare a conclusion, as per "exceptional claims require exceptional sources" principle of wikipedia. For these reasons, Id suggest that sentence be removed. Id also suggest the article be moved from "United States" to "United States of America" and be titled by that full title, since thats the correct name of the country, and "united states" is a generic term - meaning simply some (any) states that are united, and has no characteristics of a proper name in any, even shortened, form (except if its considered from a US-centric perspective, but that would also be a problem for an international encyclopedia). -- 89.172.87.60 13:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely laughable. I thought it was vandalism until I saw it was "sourced". Not only does the sentence in question seem "tacked on" at the end of that paragraph, with no explanation why, It's listed as part of the nation's economy? The source in question mentions a frivolous study--- I beg you if you have one shred of common sense to remove the sentence in question until more sources are found from the USDA. Sneakernets 04:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
From what I can tell, Marijuana hasn't been included in any of the economic indicators cited within this section. In the interest of consistency, the singular study should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.174.146 ( talk) 21:25, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
A while back, I suggested that some more basic information on America's largest business sectors/ industries be added. I've located all the information I was referring to in the Census Bureau's Statistical Abstract of the United States 2007. You can check it out online--here's the link for the business section: http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/business.pdf.
Anyway here are the stats that strike me as most significant--they could be added to the opening part of the Economy section of the article or, perhaps, to the section's infobox. I know there are concerns about the length of the article, so I wanted to raise these items here and see if people agree that some or all belong in this article or only in the Economy of the United States article. Here goes (with the most recent available figures):
Largest business sectors (2003),
by gross business receipts: Wholesale and retail trade ($6,384 billion)
by net income: Finance and insurance ($425 billion)
by employment: Health care and social assistance: (15.47 million people)
Leading manufacturing field (2005), by contribution to GDP: Chemical products ($186 billion)
Leading international trade commodities (2005), by export value: Electrical machinery ($74.29 million) by import value: Vehicles ($195.93 million)
I'd be very interested to hear what people think. DocKino 20:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Before I say anything, it should be noted that I'm American (from Massachusetts). Even in what people consider the "yankee" states of New England, it's generally taught that the colonies pretty much lucked out. If it had been just a simple deal of Britain vs. Colonies with no outside complications, the colonies wouldn't have stood a chance. So do we really want to use the word "defeated" to describe the outcome of the American Revolutionary War? 75.69.110.227 21:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Djwardell 05:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I recently improved the layout and picture selection of the article only to find it being reverted for reasons of "restore consensus image selection and layout". Firstly is there really a consensus on picture selection and article layout? And if so this "consensus" is between who exactly? I find it very hard to believe there would be an exact consensus between all those who have ever edited this article on picture selection and article layout. Besides my improvements were only minor and anyone with any commonsense would realize these improvements improve the article as a whole and would have no need to undo them. I hope other editors can respect the improvements I have made and see them for what they are. Signsolid 10:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I did try to improve this article but it's become clear that a few will resist any change to the article including any improvements that could be made. I'm not sure whether this resisting of changes and improvements is down to certain editors who feel their say over this article is more important than all others and so are exercising a dominance over the article or whether it's just plain arrogance seeking an argument with others for the sake of it or perhaps a general anti-US sentiment which presents itself in the form of trying to stifle the article.
Either way the fact that as soon as the changes and improvements were made they were instantly swept away without any consideration as to whether the changes or some of the changes actually improved the article only goes to demonstrate how this article maybe be being stifled for any one of these reasons.
It's a shame that improving this article has now become as difficult as it is and it's the article which really loses out from a lack of improvements. There also seems to be a slight anti-US slant on this article which is a shame in itself and is a disgrace really when considering most of the editors of this article are themselves American. Signsolid 21:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
What do you all think of adding an international rankings section/table such as the one in the Canada article? Please discuss this possibility. I know that there are different ranking references throughout the article, but adding a table would provide a quick overview of where the US stands in comparison. Here is what the Canada table looks like:
Organization | Survey | Ranking |
---|---|---|
United Nations Development Programme | Human Development Index | 6 out of 177 |
A.T. Kearney/ Foreign Policy Magazine | Globalization Index 2005 | 6 out of 111 |
IMD International | World Competitiveness Yearbook 2007 | 10 out of 60 |
The Economist | The World in 2005 - Worldwide quality-of-life index, 2005 | 14 out of 111 |
Yale University/ Columbia University | Environmental Sustainability Index, 2005 (pdf) | 6 out of 146 |
Reporters Without Borders World-wide | Press Freedom Index 2006 | 16 out of 168 |
Transparency International | Corruption Perceptions Index 2005 | 14 out of 159 |
Heritage Foundation/ The Wall Street Journal | Index of Economic Freedom, 2007 | 10 out of 161 |
The Economist | Global Peace Index | 8 out of 121 |
Fund for Peace/ ForeignPolicy.com | Failed States Index, 2007 | 168 out of 177 [1] |
Thanks for considering!!! Mode lun 88
Great! I created the article, but since I'm busy in real life at the time, I'm counting on my fellow Wikipedians to expand it. I've left some suggestions on the talk page of the new article, feel free to edit and rearrange it as you see fit. Signature brendel 00:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
How much longer is this war gonna last? Are we gonna follow the guidelines at Wikipedia: Lead, or not? Will someone block the disruptor, before the article gets 'protected'. GoodDay 21:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Apologies ... I got a little carried away. Abtract 16:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I've seen only the OVERSE side of the Great Seal of the U.S. in the infobox. How about someone show the overse AND the REVERSE seals as well? Elwin Blaine Coldiron 02:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The Government and Politics section affirms that: "It is both a representative democracy and a constitutional republic, 'in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law.'"
However, regardless of how the representative aspects (proportionality or not) is managed, there is relative consensus that a necessary condition for a democracy to exist is that the countries citizens are eligible to vote in the elections that select their national government (in this case, executive and legislative branch). Nonetheless, in the case of the United States, there are more than four million U.S. citizens that are excluded from participating in U.S. elections.
So, under that scenario, the U.S. is not a representative democracy in which the "constitutional republic" is created to temper the rights of all minorities. since there are more than four million U.S. citizens that are not enfranchised and whose right to participate in the national government that holds sovereignty over them is not protected by law.
---
Does the U.S. aspire to be a "democracy" as part of its de jure or de facto public policy?
Hypathia 02:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but it seems that the mention under "US History: Superpower" of black bear attacks as similar to terrorism is absurd. I too enjoy a little Jon Stewart on occasion, but Wikipedia has its rules for a reason: we're trying to be an encyclopedia, no? Anyways, if someone would remove the bear blurb and the citation, I would be happy. Be silly somewhere else please, not somewhere where foreigners might form their first and maybe only impression of the US. Not to mention all of those students who get all of their info from wikipedia. Thanks, Jasper124c41 04:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Who is little John Stewart? (I am from Finland, but I have spent much time studying and traveling in the great USA without encountering little John) Aleksi Peltola 04:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I see there is a footnote for this, although I don't have the book, I'm reluctant to question the statement. However... Can anyone think of an earlier "successful colonial war of independence"? My knowledge of empire is sadly lacking in these areas. Rich Farmbrough, 10:31 25 September 2007 (GMT).
The intro presently reads that the United States comprises "fifty states, one federal district, and fourteen territories." This may sound pedantic, but my understanding is that only the states and incorportated territories are actually part of the United States; the rest are possessions. A state or incorporated territory is considered to be a permanent part of the United States; all of the territories, save Palmyra Atoll, are unincorporated. A similar thing can be looked at the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is *part* of the United Kingdom, whereas the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are only *possessions* of it. Most lists of area and population do not include the territories, nor do most maps. The territories, I think, should be listed separately, along the lines of, "The United States comprises fifty states and one federal district, and has fourteen territories around the globe." or what not. (I don't think Palmyra Atoll is important enough to be listed separately in the intro) -- Golbez 23:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
They're territories that, in several cases, have exercised their right to self-determination via referenda and decided to stay US territories. "Possesses" is a bit harsh and imperial. Is it the most appropriate verb to use? MrZaius talk 17:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
In the Wiki on CUba there is a whol section on human rights violations. Surely there should be a separate section for this on the USA wiki. Abbu Ghraib and any topic on US terrorism covered in the documentary "The War on Democracy" could be included. Meraloma 21:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
"United States of America" is the proper name, and "United States" can refer to several other former or proposed nations. 69.12.155.64 01:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Question- The article says the United States is mostly in the Western Hemisphere. Understandably the territories such as Guam are in the Eastern Hemisphere, but I've never heard that parts of Alaska are Eastern. Can anyone find a valid source for this, to save me editing it and looking foolish? Darkage7 07:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Was there a indigenous name for America given by its aboriginal people? was it a name for the entire nation or were there just provincial names? and if so should it be included in the article in some detail in the etymology section and then in further detail in the Native American articles? just a asking out of curiosity, thank you, Maikeli MB 23:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Several days ago I added information in the section on Crime and Punishment. The section said that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I clarified that we have the highest documented incarceration rate, and provided figures to compare the US's rate with that of China. This information was reverted away by DCGeist with no discussion. There was also a section that said how "scholars" claimed the US's high homicide rate was related to its rates of gun ownership. This was funny, as it was right next to a graph showing the US's homicide rate compared to that of Canada, France, Germany, and Russia, with Russia's homicide rate being shown as four times higher than that of the US. I added a sentence saying that Russia's homicide rate is higher than that of the US, dispite Russia's stricter gun laws, and said that the issue was more complicated than a simple comparison of gun laws. This information was also reverted away without discussion by DCGeist. Finally, a section I added (with cite, from another wiki article) saying that the US's overall crime rate was comparable to that of Canada's was removed by DCGeist. I doubt he has issue with that cite in the other article I took it from, so why did it need to be removed from this one? I'd rather not get into an edit war, so I'm putting this here instead of just adding the information back in. I see no reason why it shouldn't be in the section, though. Any thoughts? - CumbiaDude 21:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I have two issues with this image, present in the Superpower section of this article.
Thank you. I was concerned that the recent change to the caption identifying (or attempting to identify) the specific type of aircraft might be incorrect. I've restored the inarguable noun (and concise description) "jets."
It had never occurred to me that the image might be misinterpreted in the way you describe, and I continue to believe it's not a serious concern. Let's see if anyone else has thoughts on the matter.— DCGeist 02:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, we could keep the caption satisfatorily short while clarifying it thus: " U.S. Air Force jets flying above Kuwaiti oil fields destroyed by Iraq in the Gulf War, 1991." What do you think?— DCGeist 02:27, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
When reading this article the whole article generally has a negative view of the United States. The article is full of comparisons of how poorly the United States compares to other countries. Where are the comparisons showing where the United States performs better than others? That's because none are shown. In reality the United States excels in most areas yet none of these have been included into the article, only a mass of criticizing material has been included. The whole article reads in a very critical way of the United States pushing a point of view that the United States is a bad and finished country. I would have thought this article being one of the most popular articles on Wikipedia plus Wikipedia's neutral point of view policies should have made anti-US sentiment impossible. I suggest an administrator or a reliable editor(s) reviews the content of the article and removes any material which may breach WP:NPOV. It's much appreciated if anyone can help on this. 88.109.12.164 13:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
its nt negetive its nuetral —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.216.134.34 ( talk) 20:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
At 163 KB, this article is difficult to bring up to read or edit. On my high speed internet lines, connections and computer, it takes about a minute to load. Far too long for even the patient reader. Could there be a reasonable discussion on moving more text into sub-articles? Thanks Hmains 03:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Looking through this talk page this length issue has come up a few times, with no major objections. The quality of the info is excellent as are refs, but i just don't think the level of detail is required in many parts. Anyway, I've made two edits pushing details into the footnotes. maybe we could use the notation system seen in Australia for further small details? -- Merbabu 12:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
As pointed out above, please keep in mind that the sub-articles and splits already exist and have for several years. What we have here is a basis for a rewrite of those largely antiquated and unsourced articles. MrZaius talk 13:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Conceptually, I'm 100% in favor of Happyme22's addition of the image of Reagan's Berlin Wall speech. Crucial president, crucial historical event. But I don't feel the particular photo itself is really of encyclopedic quality. Do we have any free-image hounds here who might possibly locate a shot that shows the man doing his thing a bit more visibly? (Image-hunting wise, I'm a free-use maven, so I'm just not the guy for this task.) Come through and you will get a barnstar.— DCGeist 08:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I trimed this section of some details I believe are well-covered elsewhere, particularly the Bill of Rights, Bush v. Gore and United States presidential election, 2004. If I've been too bold, feel free to revert and start over. -- Evb-wiki 16:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
The demonym of the United States people is currently best know to be "Americans". But since this can be misleading, many people use different demonyms to describe the United States people. One of the most popular ones is "United Statians". This word was also published in Urban Dictonary's word of the day. See [www.urbandictionary.com]'s word of the day for the 4th of July, 2007. Currently it is located at [10]. The word's definition can be directly accessed at [11].
Definition 1 makes this argument. "All people born in North and South America, which are continents, are "Americans" - United Statians would be better suited to describe someone born in the United States."
If you do a Yahoo! Search for exact phrase "United Statian" with URL [www.urbandictionary.com] you will come up with a link to United Statians which has different content, yet the same URL. Perhaps it's slightly different. But definition 1 there has this to say.
" Most NON-English speaking countries, specially in Latin America and Europe, refer to people from the USA as "Estadounidenses&quo t;, "Etats-Uniens", etc. (United Statian) which is the right way to call them, because anyone who's born in the American Contienent, it's an American.
It's like if there was a country in Europe, named United States of Europe, and they auto call themselves "Europeans", anyone how lived in Europe would be an European, not just people from that country; in the same way, anyone who lives in America(s) is an American not just people from the USA.
Todos somos Americanos, desde Canada hasta Argentina, y los Estadounidences no tienen derecho de tomar nuestro nombre.
Where are all Americans, from Canada to Argentina, and the United Statians have no right to take our name. "
Therefore, I think this is a valid demonym to add to the United States of America Wikipedia page. How do I go about getting this passed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.132.89 ( talk) 23:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
In response to the original poster, you will not get this past because this has to be done by consensus, majority rule, and even if the majority are wrong, their decision stands. "American" as a demonym of the US is a fallacy, but vehemently upheld by US citizens and forced into public usage, whereas "American" does, in fact, refer to the people of the Americas, north and south. There are grumblings from various American (from the Americas, not just the US) anthropologists to change this fallacy but the reaction has been akin to that of the journalist covering the story of the outbreak of war with Canada in the South Park movie; "Naturally, we're not listening"... Tough break champ, you have a valid point, but good luck getting it through. 62.72.110.11 14:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
And, before people start getting angry about sources, here is a quote from anthropologist Marcelo Saavedra:
I am part of your virtual march. However, the body of your message needs to be more sensitive to all the Americans that live in the Americas. You use the term Americans to refer to US citizens. I must remind you that the term Americans refer to all of us that live either in North America (including and not solely the US), Central America or South America.
I have resent the message about the March to my contacts; I have a few thousand of them all over the Americas, changing "Americans" for "US citizens". Although I share your campaign, support it and spread the word, I think you should take this bit of criticism constructively and name things by their proper name. I am an American but I am not a US citizen and I fell quite annoyed when US citizens assume either consciously or unconsciously that 'America' is the US. I referred to the Monroe Doctrine by which US expansionism began by the motto "America for the Americans". We have to deconstruct this misinterpretation of history and recognize other Americans beyond your boundaries.
In solidarity, always!
Marcelo
The original can be found here:
http://www.avaaz.org/blog/en/w/paulhilder/2007/01/global_peace_march_this_saturday_spread_the_word.php
Marcelo Saavedra is a representative of the Andean Council of Indigenous Peoples (CANO), President of the Support Group for the the Peoples of the Americas (GAPA) as well as representative in North America of the Boliviain Permanent Assembly of Human Rights (APDHB) and a leading expert in the field of the rights of Indigenous People. TTFN 62.72.110.11 15:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
OK, checking the page history Avargasm and DCGeist are on the fringes of an edit war, please sort out your differences over a discussion on this talk page, you must be respected wikipedians to be able to edit the article so please act like you are. Thank you. Rick-Levitt Talk Contribs 08:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Why can I not edit this article. The lock clearly is not working as it is still being vandalised but I cannot revert it! Rick-Levitt Talk Contribs 20:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I believe the "Etymology" section should have a paragraph saying the terms "America" (for the country) and "American" (for U.S.-related things and people) are openly contested by every other non-U.S.A. American countries. The way it is, the article seems to say everybody accept them as they are. It would be next to reality and would show that the terms are not universally accepted, as well show at least part of the foreign opinion about the terms.
Thank you for your attention. -- Ivan Linares 19:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I would say that after viewing American it does not need to be mentioned at all here. Rick- Levitt Contribs 19:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
"American" as a demonym of the US is a fallacy, but vehemently upheld by US citizens and forced into public usage, whereas "American" does, in fact, refer to the people of the Americas, north and south. There are grumblings from various American (from the Americas, not just the US) anthropologists to change this fallacy but the reaction has been akin to that of the journalist covering the story of the outbreak of war with Canada in the South Park movie; "Naturally, we're not listening"... Tough break champ, you have a valid point, but good luck getting it through. 62.72.110.11 14:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
And, before people start getting angry about sources, here is a quote from anthropologist Marcelo Saavedra:
I am part of your virtual march. However, the body of your message needs to be more sensitive to all the Americans that live in the Americas. You use the term Americans to refer to US citizens. I must remind you that the term Americans refer to all of us that live either in North America (including and not solely the US), Central America or South America. I have resent the message about the March to my contacts; I have a few thousand of them all over the Americas, changing "Americans" for "US citizens". Although I share your campaign, support it and spread the word, I think you should take this bit of criticism constructively and name things by their proper name. I am an American but I am not a US citizen and I fell quite annoyed when US citizens assume either consciously or unconsciously that 'America' is the US. I referred to the Monroe Doctrine by which US expansionism began by the motto "America for the Americans". We have to deconstruct this misinterpretation of history and recognize other Americans beyond your boundaries. In solidarity, always! Marcelo
The original can be found here:
http://www.avaaz.org/blog/en/w/paulhilder/2007/01/global_peace_march_this_saturday_spread_the_word.php
Marcelo Saavedra is a representative of the Andean Council of Indigenous Peoples (CANO), President of the Support Group for the the Peoples of the Americas (GAPA) as well as representative in North America of the Boliviain Permanent Assembly of Human Rights (APDHB) and a leading expert in the field of the rights of Indigenous People. TTFN 62.72.110.11 15:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Also, stuff about Frank Lloyd Wright on demonyms for the citizen of the US: http://osdir.com/ml/culture.studies.general/2003-10/msg00025.html
A search for "USonians" or "United Statians" will show that these terms are entering into common usage as people become more aware of the fallacy of the demonym for US citizens being "American" whereas it is the demonym of the continent as a whole. In the same way as individual nations within Europe and Africa have country names and demonyms therein, they also have a continental name and a continental demonym. Residents of Germany are German, of England they are English, France - French etc. but when it comes to Europe, they are European. Kenya has Kenyans, Morocco has Moroccans, Africa has Africans. The US has USonians or United Statians, Canada has Canadians, Mexico has Mexicans, the Americas have Americans.
62.72.110.11
15:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the United States article.
- This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
The term "US Citizen" is a term used to describe citizens of the United States by people who also inhabit the Americas, as well as by a large proportion of the civilised world. "American" is a demonym used by inhabitants of the United States to describe themselves, while failing to recognise either that there are other nations on the same continent (comprising over 440 million individuals) or while failing to realise a world exists outside their borders (yes, it does happen). It is also used by European English speakers who have been somewhat dulled by the predominance of US culture in Europe and, thus, also adopt the term. Now, although this is a page on the US, mainly edited by citizens of the US, and often vetoing anything considered "Un-American", perhaps it is time for a change of attitude and some sort of new "Golden Age of Rennaissance" whereby facts and truths are not only accepted, but supported and upheld. Or perhaps this is an opportunity to watch ignorance flex its beefy, hairy, malcoordinated arm once more. 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 16:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
As regards the discussion, the use of "American" in this context could easily be construed as racist, and has been, thus my proposal to change "American" to "US citizen" is an improvement. 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 16:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I'm just wondering why my version of the page was removed (by a bot no less). The page was lacking some much-needed info about the current history of America. It mentioned nothing about the economic troubles we faced in the late '70s, as well as the Iran hostage crisis of 1979. The only thing it said about Ronald Reagan was that he influenced American politics. Ok, but that didn't even capture the full effect of his presidency, during which some major world-changing events occured. I cited all "controversial" statements. There was nothing wrong with the edit, and a bot removed it! Happyme22 04:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
While the bot's behavior is inexcusable, I'm partially reverting for the general reason detailed in extensive discussion above--we need to be looking at shrinking the article, not growing. The history section is generall seens as the leading candidate for such shrinkage, as we already have a fine article on the History of the United States. More specifically,
By the same token, having added Carter, we really do have to at least briefly mention the first President Bush, which I have done.— DCGeist 17:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that this page should be added to the external links section. It provides a very well laid out collection of direct links associated with the topic. The time and work put into building this page is very evident and I believe that it could be a very useful resource for academic study on the United States especially in conjunction with this Wikipedia article.
It is:
I think that this link should be added to the external links section. It will provide this article will personal opinions and stories specifically relating to the subject. This will add a more personnel outlet if the viewer feels inclined to follow the link.
Here is the link:
Editors, please keep an eye on edits by M5891, who has edit warred in this section in the past (see article revision history for October 8–10). This user, who never leaves an edit summary or participates in Talk, aims to do several things, specifically concerning the discussion of Hispanic Americans:
— DCGeist 00:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the first talk page I've come across so I will now explain my actions.
Hispanicity concerns ethnicity and should therefore be independent from racial categories, which is why I've been placing it at the bottom of the infobox containing "Race and Ethnicity" to signify that it encompasses all of the aforementioned racial groups.
As far as Hispanics being labeled an "ethnic minority," I suppose that you would have to consider European Americans as the "ethnic majority." However, Europe has been the destination for African, Asian, and Latin American immigrants in recent years and now encompass different racial and non-European ancestral groups.
Spanish Americans would have to be included in both categories (Hispanic and European).
The category "Hispanic or Latino" would also have to include descendants of Lusitanic and Francophone nations such as Brazil and Haiti, respectively, since they are Latino as well.
Hispanic is a broad term for people descended from Spain or its Spanish-influenced former territories, as well as current Spanish citizens, and itself encompasses various racial and ancestral groups. The same can be said about the terms Anglo (British-descended or influenced), Francophone (French-descended or influenced), and Lusitanic (Portuguese-descended or influenced), which can be found all throughout the world encompassing different racial and ancestral groups. These other ethnic groups are present in the United States as well as Hispanics, so why aren't they also officially considered minorites? —Preceding unsigned comment added by M5891 ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that my words have had at least some impact. Perhaps sooner than later Hispanic Americans will be fully accepted and integrated both socially and demographically, eliminating the practic of separate ethnic categorization. I just wish I knew about this discussion page sooner. M5891 21:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Summary of the requested move discussion:
For the record, I agree with Dekimasu's decisions to close the following poll and to state that the result was "no consensus". However, I am opposed to anybody closing a poll with anything more than clearly-NPOV statements. Providing additional commentary, as did Dekimasu, is effectively an attempt to get in the last word, which was briefly the first word because it appeared at the top of the discussion.
In case you're wondering, Dekimasu's specific phrase that I object to is "the names of articles aren't based on official names". I have not been able to verify that statement; it is not found in any of the following:
Actually, all of those pages state that official names are preferable at times.
JonathanFreed
21:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. There is disagreement as to whether "United States of America" is the official name of the entity or not, but it is only tangential to the main question, because the names of articles aren't based on official names. citation needed There is little evidence (other than evidence of the anecdotal sort) that the country is most commonly referred to as "United States of America". The ambiguity of the title is minimal and unlikely to confuse, and even after a move United States (the most common form in running encyclopedia text) would remain a primary topic redirect to the new name, so a move wouldn't save any users a click. Dekimasu よ! 03:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I propose that the page on the "United States" be moved to the "United States of America" since that is its official name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicolaususry ( talk • contribs) 14:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Now that our major debate over the article name and our mini-debate concerning the Demographics section have been resolved, I'd like to turn to this section--really a table--that was recently added by DevinCook. Let me first say that I really admire the care with which DevinCook created this states table/section--if everyone was this conscientious about the quality of their work, Wikipedia would be a much better place for it. Regretfully, therefore, I oppose its inclusion in the article. Given our extensively discussed size concerns; given the fact that we link to the relevant detailed article, U.S. state, both in the very first sentence of the article and as a highlighted link at the top of the Government and politics section; and given my belief that—if a consensus emerges that this level of detail needs to be included—a readable political map of the country would better serve our readers (a related, but separate, debate), I believe the section should be deleted from the article.— DCGeist 06:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Golbez's intelligent expansion of the introduction to the section has, ironically, further clarified an additional problem with it. It strikes me as out of place at the end of the article—if it is going to exist in its current form, thematic sense suggests that it be placed at one of several possible points earlier in the article; the most logical, I think, would be between the History and Government and politics sections. But then, do we really want this large table whose substantive content is almost purely links in the middle of the article? A quandary. As a secondary point, the material added to its intro--which, again, was intelligently drafted to give the section satisfactory substance--of necessity contains material that is either (a) redundant of material already present elsewhere in the article or (b) of a level of detail not vital to this overview article.
Here is my proposal, offered for debate: That the section be eliminated and a mini-version of Image:Map of USA with state names.svg be placed in the existing Government and politics section (much as we have the mini-versions of Image:US states by date of statehood3.gif and Image:U.S. Territorial Acquisitions.png in the Independence and expansion subsection).— DCGeist 05:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
"(a british invention but built and tested on american land)" (regarding the Manhattan project) "Controversy has arisen about the matter of America claiming too much glory for the war even though they only jjoined half way through and suffered the least casualties out of the competing countrys. This has led too much xophobia especially in britain and russia who fought for the whole six years and suffered hundreds of thousands/millions (in the case of russia) This has also led to the British getting upset over Americans claiming to have "saved britain" during the war." - Self Explanatory.
These two quotes are located in the section discussing world war two. Due to the fact that in the past few years of editing wikipedia I have not registered an account I am unable to revert the page. Can anyone else edit the page, or, at the very least, correct the above quotes' author's spelling (and grammar, if needed)? 202.216.122.194 12:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm talking about american citizens who are from here or became citizens here make sure to add alexander graham bell to that list —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChesterTheWorm ( talk • contribs) 17:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Why are we being compared with europe as if its a country? why not compare us with japan? LoL i'd like an awnser to this and or if you dont have one take those comparisons off —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChesterTheWorm ( talk • contribs) 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
When I looked up "fascism" in Wikipedia, I was redirected to the page on the "United States." Is anyone else having this problem? -- Armaetin 00:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Someone needs to fix the archive bot - it's time to archive this page. I would do so myself manually if it wasn't for the automated bot. Could someone with more know-how on WP bots please activate or notify the bot to archive this page. Thank you, Signature brendel 00:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
As the USA has no de jure national language, should the infobox reflect the states the have several de facto languages? -- Neon white 17:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
At the end of the Sports section, several athletes are mentioned as world famous. Lance Armstrong is an extremely noteworthy American athlete and should be added to this list. Andrew Davis Price 07:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Please edit:
The end of this article states that the only "integral" parts of US territory other than the states is DC and Palmyra Atoll. A 12 square mile uninhabited island? How about we replace that with Puerto Rico?
-- 71.212.17.191 04:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I have a suggestion to make. The article United States should be split into several articles. My computer is slow whenever I load the page United States, and the article is getting closer to 200 kilobytes. NHRHS2010 talk 18:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed many wikipedia article about people claim their nationality is American. Is this an actual nationality? I was under the impresson Canadians etc could refer to themselves as American too (rather like the term European). I have looked on the German site and they always state US-American as a nationality. Moreover I have found wikipedia to be harbouring quite a few mistakes. Many Britons are referred to as English which in reality hasnt been a nationality for over 300 yrs. Thank you for any information. -- Camaeron ( talk) 21:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Its not really a question of taking offence. Anyone who takes offence at their own nationality must be a fool. I am a Briton but would be an Englishman if there should be such a thing. I think I shall continue to use the term US-Americans as there is no term for the continent otherwise. The UK did have a similiar problem. One can live outside of Britain (Northerd Ireland doesnt belong to Britain, though it does belong to the UK) and yet ones nationality is still British. A question to Natalie: Is United Kingdom-ian used also? Thanks for your answers. -- Camaeron ( talk) 13:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Is it true? I think it is at least not far from it. (I have never been there, but I have read about the situation and seen it on television) See this: [14]. It is not directly a good source, BUT what he is saying can be proved (induvidually) by other sources (I think). Helpsloose ( talk) 04:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The fact remains, the article will not be changed, this is therefore an unhelpful topic and should be closed. -- Golbez ( talk) 01:34, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
The Youtube videos are based on studies and the like, they are not just people stating that the united states is fascist with out support. My argument to Nicholas's is that this country does show signs of religion in the government, racial supremecy, and a sense of cultural supremacy. We swear our leaders in on bibles, our country is still very seperated by class ethnically, and we frown upon countries of opposing cultural beliefs. Take the French for example, we went so far as to rename french fries as freedom fries. Also, that we do not believe this will change the page, we should still bring it to attention. It seemed unpractical for people to resist the nazis, but do we scoul on those who did it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.133.20 ( talk) 06:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Building on my suggestion of a few weeks ago, and having considered the issues raised by other editors, I'm making a major edit for editors' consideration: removing the in-article table presenting the fifty states by name accompanied by their flags and substituting a fully Wikilinked template version of Image:Map of USA with state names.svg, specifically Template:USA midsize imagemap with state names. This will reduce our KB weight (by almost 5 KB) while increasing the amount of information delivered in a similar amount of space. While I understand that external templates have some hidden effect on download time, the net result, if not a significant time savings, should at least be close to zero (if someone technically knowledgeable could check this, that would be great). Let me know what you think; if you concur with the substitution, one question is the size of the templated map. I attempted to set it at the smallest size where the state names could be read without undue strain. Best, Dan.— DCGeist ( talk) 19:48, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The last line of the "Etymology" Section contains this line "American is rarely used in English to refer to people not connected to the United States.". This is not only completely false, but is rather racist. Please remove it. Either that or change it. Something like "American is rarely used by Americans to refer to people not connected to the United States" or "American is a fallacious demonym used, due to a lack of imagination during the founding years of the United States, by US citizens unaware of their neighbouring countries, as well as their own history and culture, which features not only the annihilation of the "Native" American people (also often referring, falsely, to the indigenous people of North America, whereas native Americans were first encountered by Europeans in the Southern Americas) but also various military forays and operations into the lands of other American nations, most notably during the drug wars during the latter part of the 20th century" Happy Editing! 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 17:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Define "almost exclusively". It's not that I don't like it, you people have some NPOV thing going on here that I am more than happy to abide by, but it is false. Okay, it may be correct on the assumption that it refers to anyone connected to the United States vis a vis their residence on the same continent, but "American" also refers to the many indigenous peoples of South America (those of the northern americas now virtually extinct) as well as inhabitants of the (entire) Americas, North, South and Central. English is one of the world's most widely spoken languages (and not just by US or UK citizens), and merely because the majority of those who edit this article say "American" (and probably are "American") means US related, it is not "in fact" so, unless you refer to the fact that anyone that can, could be or is referred to as American shares, as previously stipulated, the same landmass. If you want to describe usage, why not investigate how those outside the US use the word, not just those inside the US. Otherwise you are prescribing usage, and not describing usage. 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 17:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello DC, I took you up on your request and went one better, I provided some citations from reputable English language sources based in the USA; most notably the US Government. Please see some links below. The last one is particularly interesting; it is the US Constitution; you may find many a mention of the citizen of the United States, and not one “American”. Many of the rest are sites that describe US Citizens without the continental demonym. The mistake is easy to make; the US is on the continent of America, thus all inhabitants of the continent are American. Just as all inhabitants of Europe are European. However, just because the English speak English they don’t tell the world they’re Europeans, that their country is called Europe and that their citizens are called European, because they aren't, they are English. The Official name for a citizen of the US, even, apparently, according to the US administration, is a US Citizen; American being the demonym of the continent America, not the nation the USA. “American” is a colloquialism that has caught on in US culture. The US administration appears to regard “US Citizen” as the official version.
http://www.uscitizenship.info/ins-USimmigration-learn.htm http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/21/long_wait_expected_to_become_us_citizen/ http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq-kw201.html http://iraq.usembassy.gov/iraq/us_citizenship.html http://luxembourg.usembassy.gov/service.html http://mali.usembassy.gov/general_information2.html http://www.mongolianembassy.us/eng_consular_and_visa/visa_info_for_us_citizen_only.php http://sanpedrosula.usvpp.gov/service.html http://wellington.usembassy.gov/usc_arrest.html http://www1.cuny.edu/about/citizenship/faqs/citizen.html http://www.maricopa.edu/hrweb/payroll/hireweb/nraform.htm
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
All the best. 62 72 110 11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.244.133.151 ( talk) 21:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Fine, I proved the wrong point, it was one I was discussing, and being ignored over, earlier. Anyhow, you're behaving like a child, even if I'm behaving like an asshole. Native American, South American, Central American; three terms that refer to Americans who have nothing to do with the US. Or you can prove me wrong by denying these places don't exist (combined, they have a greater population than the US, maybe two times greater if the Yanquis hadn't tried to kill everything that moved). Just because YOU refuse to acknowledge a world outside your borders, doesn't mean there isn't one. My comments on the page were fair, non NPOV, made by a man (Marcelo Saveedra, anthropologist) with an education, a career and a life (even if my comments to you, you loathsome cur, were not). I tried to keep a fair, two sided view on just that one line, but you damn yanks just have to have it your own way. I can't wait for your economy to crash. Have a nice day! 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 14:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Just as an exercise, try this google search.
Ignore the results which, despite the domain exclusion restrictions on the search, are clearly of US-based origin. The point of the exercise is to illustrate that non-US-based usage of the term "American" to mean "U.S." is not uncommon. -- Boracay Bill 23:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
This entire issue is already discussed exhaustively and fairly at American (word), as I noted above. Our anonymous IP visitor from 62.72.110.11 is obviously ignorant of the history of the article United States (namely, the need to keep such minor details out of it), as well as Wikipedia official policies like Verifiability, What Wikipedia is not, No original research, and Neutral point of view. Not too bright. -- Coolcaesar 20:22, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, so now I'm a moron because I haven't spent my life learning wikipedia (the FREE) encyclopedia's pages of policy and laws, as well as meticulously picking through each pithy discussion on this page? As opposed to rationally discussing the issue, informing me of prior discussions on the subject (let alone welcoming me) I was treated like some kind of scum, and I reacted badly. I think the American vs US citizen is an issue to be considered more carefully (even if the result stays the same). How can you promote consensus when you spend your time telling everyone who comments on the issue that they are wrong and telling you to shut up, and how you are a moron. Perhaps if this community was a little more tolerant and willing to discuss, I wouldn't have acted like an asshole. However, the irritating way in which anyone who isn't a member of the "ruling elite" (the most frequent of editors on the accursed uncyclopedia, as it has become)as it were is instantly wrong, and not even worth listening to is just disgusting; you create a an unpleasant environment in which to contribute and give the project as a whole a bad name.
I would apologise for being a retard if your criteria for being such revolved around anything more than not spending 18 hours a day editing Wikipedia. Your patronising points of view are more sickening than my lack of patience with people like you. 62.72.110.11 14:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
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Is the US not the most diverse nation in the world? Virtually, people have come from every corner of the world..which is not seen in any other countries. Rotinajeht ( talk) 06:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
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Archive 25 | ← | Archive 27 | Archive 28 | Archive 29 | Archive 30 | Archive 31 | → | Archive 35 |
Probably not the first to suggest so, but... shouldn't the article be called "United States of America", with a disambiguation for "United States", since technically that's also the name of The United Mexican States? Just a suggestion.
I was charting the growth of the article over the last couple of weeks using User talk:Dr pda/prosesize.js and thought I'd share the results:
Current http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&curid=3434750&oldid=141$ (150k)
From the end of the most recent FAC: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&oldid=139239542 (133k)
From the start of the FAC process: http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&oldid=135527718 (114k)
It's worth noting that there are a fair number of template:main articles linked here that require a fair bit of cleanup or that don't contain many of the points that are new to this article. The pre-FAC/mid-May suggestion that the article be broken up isn't viable, as those articles do already exist. That said, it might help us try to get back to a more effective article length to go through and take the scissors to the article, carefully cutting few dozen sentences after moving their key points and references to the main articles. MrZaius talk 18:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
According to one of the sources used in the Spanish language article it will. Looks like POV to me.
I totally agree. It's the Spanish language page editors that don't.
It's not so pov, it's a reality. -- Tones benefit 12:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The most that any of this implies is that if current demographic trends continue, then that would lead to Spanish being the majority language in that length of time. However, that is plenty of time for the trends to change entirely. Spanish-speaking people could stop immigrating, there could be waves of speakers of Croatian starting to arrive instead, Spanish-speakers in the US could start using English as their primary language so that their descendants don't even know Spanish, birth and/or death rates can change dramatically... lots of stuff can happen. We're not a crystal ball. *Dan T.* 18:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Someone should add Tiger Woods to the famous athletes in the sports section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.210.235 ( talk) 06:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I came here mostly to look at the coverage of culture, but I read through the entire article and was very impressed. I also looked through the recent edit history to get a sense of what's been going on. I have to say, I find it very odd, this resistance against coverage of America's major current war. I've restored the essential data about how much it has cost and how many Americans have given their lives to it--this seems to me very basic information that the average reader would hope and expect to find in this article. Of course there are all sorts of minute details that belong in the specific article on the war and not here, but to claim that these fundamental data points about one of the most important actions of the country at present are in some way not "relevant" is just stupid, and, I suspect, ideologically motivated.
A few other things I think need to be covered:
Alright, I'll dismount from my high horse. I'm happy to discuss/debate any and all of these matters. Just don't say that an accounting of the U.S. citizens who are currently dying in the U.S.'s war doesn't belong in the U.S. article.-- DocKino 07:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
In the last sentence under Sports the claim is made that "Several American athletes have become world famous, in particular baseball player Babe Ruth, boxer Muhammad Ali, and basketball player Michael Jordan.". Tiger Woods was just removed from that list by someone claiming he isn't famous enough, but Babe Ruth remains, even though Baseball is nowhere near as popular anywhere else in the world as it is in the US. As a European I can say that in my experience Tiger Woods is a household name over here, while no-one ever mentions Babe Ruth. I'd believe the claim if there was any source for it, but there isn't, so it looks like speculation to me.
i don't believe the source states that the oil fields being flown over by the air force jets in the picture are kuwaiti... they may very well be iraqi, and the kuwaiti reference should probably be replaced — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.156.166.51 ( talk)
yea, that's definately kuwati oil fields set on fire by the retreating iraqis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.40.117 ( talk) 22:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Why has senate majority leader been placed in the government section? It is not a constitutional position and truthfully holds no power other than what it is granted by the members of the majority party. Also, I noticed that ever since Nancy Pelosi became speaker there has been a battle to keep her in the government section (this was never even considered when Dennis Hasteret was speaker). It seems that someone just wants to flaunt the fact that the democrats have control of congress by adding every position they can think of or someone is just getting to wrapped up in being fair. In my opinion it should either have only the president (the constitutional head of state) or the leaders of all three branches of government (president, vice-president, speaker, and chief justice) and thats it. In any event majority leader should not be included because it is not a constitutional office. President pro temp. of the senate has a more legitimate claim because it is a constitutional office and third in line to the presidency, majority leader is neither of these. And since I cannot remove it, can someone else?
Someone keeps remoing my information about New Zealand and the ANZUS Treaty from under military and foreign relations, even though the information is encyclopedic verifiable and comes straight from this very website.... why is that?? Murchy 16:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
The government section states that the United States is the oldest federation in the world. This should either be changed to something like the oldest continuous federation in the world (as recommended by the FAQ page) or removed, since Switzerland was declared a federation in the year 1291. See: Federal Charter of 1291. — —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.94.49 ( talk • contribs) 17:49, 30 August 2007(UTC)
I have added two new sections to the FAQ. Tell me if you think that they are proper additions. (As the FAQ section is meant to be anonymous, I request that you do not add {{unsigned}} to this comment.
Why does this article lack a subdivisions section, or a template to guide readers to the 50 states and overseas holdings of the United States? I believe more readers would come to a "United States" article seeking pointers to Iowa, Maine, Nebraska, Arizona and Kentucky than, for example, the number of dead and wounded from a current engagement overseas. Is this article not overseen by the WikiProject on Countries? Should it not then follow its guidance? The relevant guideline suggests that these articles give a "Quick overview of the administrative subdivisions of the country. Name the section after the first level of subdivisions (e.g. provinces, states, departments, etc.) and give the English name. Also include overseas possessions. Link to "(subdivisions) of X". This section could also include an overview map of the country." As a side note, this article is still terribly bloated. Have you considered making more effective use of summary style, specifically in the "Income and social class", "History", and "Crime and punishment" sections? I'm sure that there aren't to many who would fault you for implementing trims in those sections. Geuiwogbil 13:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
The first chapter of the "Postwar superpower" section equated the United States and Soviet Union in a misleading way. It downplayed the significance of US allies such as the UK and France, which had their own military doctrines and nuclear weapons unlike any of the Soviet allies. It stated that both supported dictatorships as if the countries had a similar view on democracy. It equated American anti-communists such as McCarthy with communists by stating that they attempted to suppress opposition like the Communist Party in communist countries. McCarthy never imprisoned and tortured members of the Democratic Party like communists did with their opposition. Moreover, there wasn't just one Communist Party in each Eastern Bloc country. In East Germany, for instance, there were several parties. Nazi activity was suppressed in several West European countries after WWII. Does that mean political opposition was suppressed like in communist countries? No. The chapter had to be rewritten to more accurately reflect actual history.-- Kelstonian 17:25, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
This is unrelated to the discussion above, but why does this section mention Bush and the Axis of Evil? As I remember his speech, it mentioned the Axis of Evil only shortly, however, it was quite some time ago. It seems to me that, when one is compacting so much history into such a small section (albeit, the section has many links, but let's just say that the average lazy internet bum isn't going to play around with those links), wouldn't it be more efficient to remove said Axis of Evil speech and simply say,
"In late 2002, the Bush administration pressed for regime change in Iraq on controversial grounds, and, in 2003, a Coalition of the Willing invaded Iraq, removing President Saddam Hussein. Although facing both external[36] and internal[37] pressure to withdraw, the United States maintains its military presence in Iraq at this time."
I suggest that "at this time" be added, for the reason that the US Congress is, at this time, requesting that a withdrawl be performed, and a sizable portion of the population is as well. I'm not Democrat or anything (in fact, just the opposite), but it just seems...better. Also, perhaps a link could be added after 'time'. It really shouldn't be that hard to find some evidence that the US is still in Iraq :P. Cronos2546 00:07, 16 July 2007 (UTC)Cronos2546
-- Jolo Buki Original 14:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
The FAQ says (in part): "If, after reading the following summary points and all the discussion, you wish to ask a question or contribute your opinion to the discussion, then please do so at Talk:United States. The only way that we can be sure of ongoing consensus is if people contribute." Therefore it is appropriate for Jolo Buki Original to give his opinion here(this being Talk:United States), and for me to give mine. I believe the article would be better named United States of America; it's not an overly long name, its meaning is clearer, and it is generally accepted as the correct name. Thank you. 81.157.63.35 20:01, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the opening paragraphs need to be reconsidered for NPOV. There's alot of emotive language in there and I can see why it could be hard to leave that out when most of the editors are likely American, but it's unnecessary. I think it could be altered to be more objective is all :) Sean 23:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
That's all debatable, but I forgot to talk about the colonial revolt thing. The term "colonial war of independence" implies that colonists rebelled against the colonizing country. Indians were not colonists. New England (C) (H) 20:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
RE Woodstone:
Thanks for giving exmaples. Regards, Signature brendel 21:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
I notice the intro says "The American Civil War ended slavery in the United States," which is untrue. Slavery existed for several months after the Civil War, it was ended by the 13th Amendment after the Civil War. The artle also goes on to say that the North abolished slavery by 1804, when the truth is Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, West Virginia, Washington D.C. had slavery during the Civil War. New Jersey kept slaves over a certain age as "apprentices for life" until the 13th Amendment. -- "Dominant economic, political, military, and cultural force": There needs to be a lot more explicit evidence to claim that USA is a dominant cultural force, which is far from obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.221.29.252 ( talk) 23:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree with this slavery discrepancy. Several northern states, particularly New York, had slavery until the 1830s (not 1804 as stated in the article). It is also true that slavery existed after the Civil War until the 13th Amendment, at least in non-Confederate States. Thus, the 13th Amendment ended slavery, not the Civil War. This needs to be addressed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.169.37 ( talk) 02:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, on slavery again--no matter how many times it has been edited, people keep changing it to an incorrect statement. Now it reads, "The North's victory prevented a split and ended slavery." Again this is only half true. The North's victory ended slavery in the South (it could be argued this way, since the CSA didn't see Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation as legitimate thus defeat legitimized it) but did nothing to Slavery in the North, in DC, or the Border States. This needs to read the 13th Amendment ended slavery in order maintain historical accuracy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theboondocksaint ( talk • contribs) 08:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
":::5) The word "great" power is judgmental. They are "powerful" " - The term
great power has a specific meaning which is warranted.
Captain Crush
00:37, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, I'm sure this issue has already come up before. I'm justing wondering why a scroll template isn't neccessary in the reference section when there's nearly 200 reference links? I can't seem to find the "warning on the scoll template page" anywhere, and I'm not going to scroll through all 28 archive pages to find the discussion about it. 24.21.130.80 16:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I've changed the sentence that said that the US economy is the largest in the world. I've added the sentence: "second if the EU's economy is counted.". I think that is a fact that should be in it, it just makes the picture complete. Whether people do want to count in the EU or not, that is up to them, but it is a fact that the EU's economy is slightly larger than that of the US. -- Robster1983 20:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
True, the EU economy is larger than that of the U.S., but the U.S. economy is the largest national economy in the world. The article did not state the U.S. to have the world's largest economy (such a statement is disputable) - it only states the U.S. to have the world's largest national economy - a statement which is indisputable. Regards, Signature brendel 00:41, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
The US economy section was horribly unbalanced against the US (yet again). I took the appropriate steps and made it (somewhat) better. -- Rotten 05:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I've removed the party affiliation diagram. States like Texas don't register party membership, and the sampling of states that do is not representative of the whole United States. -- Davidstrauss 22:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
America follows in the way of the Wu Tang. Cash rules everything around me CREAM get the money, dolla dolla bill ya'll. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolguyforshore ( talk • contribs) 15:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Golbez has removed the partisan membership chart becuase he/she thinks that Independent implies third party membership. It does not. "Independent" simply means that a person is not a part of either the Republican nor Democratic Party. Please see the source used for further information. There absolutely nothing desceptive about this chart. It merely shows the size of America's two big parties. Regards, Signature brendel 18:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
There's still a lot here in the relatively polished History and Culture sections that aren't in the slightly messy B-class articles at History of the United States and Culture of the United States. I'm of half a mind to take our History section and use that as the basis for a rewrite of the History article, although I haven't had time to get started on it. Merge back the other article into our section and split that into a new article, and it'd be starting out with a ton of strong sources, etc. Will hopefully start over the weekend. MrZaius talk 12:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't part of the length due to the references section, which stands at 4102 words, or around 28 kilobytes? In which case, the actual size is somewhere around 123 kilobytes. — Viriditas | Talk 22:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the last few comments, I'm talking about length of prose, not the size of the article (including references) measured in kb. It's a better than it was before its last FAC, but there is still work to do. I'm not sure why this article must be longer than FA quality country articles, particularly the history section. Much of that extra detail should go into the sub-articles. -- Merbabu 00:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Exactly: I'm not arguing that the history section is poorly written or overly verbose, I'm saying it's better written and more thouroughly sourced than History of the United States, and, merged back, it would make a great start towards GA/FA there, and allow us to cut 10k of prose and 20k of source right off the top. Same applies to the Culture section. Here's the current stats on the article:
As you can see, even the prose is something like 30k over what WP:LENGTH recommends. When I break a copy of the history section out into a sandbox, I get the following stats for it:
Compared to History of the United States:
As you can tell, the neglected parent for the history section is only twice as long as the prose of the current history section. Almost entirely unsourced, I'm awfully tempted to take the significant ideas in that article not already covered in our History section, introduce them into it, and then move it back over the pre-existing article at History of the United States. Won't be simple or happen overnight, but it does seem warranted. Doing that alone would allow us to cut the history section here in half, shooting for ~7k of prose, so that it reads more like summary of the main article. Note that there's also a number of similarly detailed sections here that are better written and more thouroughly sourced than their parent articles. Rinse, wash, repeat, and we can get this article pared down to the point that it is both strong and concise enough to survive its Nth FAC. MrZaius talk 01:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the article is too long. It should however be shortened, not splitup. The article treats the History elaborately, not briefly, while there's an article already treating the history of US. The Government and politics refers to 4 main articles – isn't that an indication that "Government and politics of US" should be an article in itself? While some very brief text about Government and politics can remain in this article. Maybe same for Foreign relations and military later? Economy and Demographics maybe have more than something in common, and may be merged, shortened and it's content lifted over to a new article? Same for Culture. As regards comparisons to Encyclopedia Britannica – Wikipedia is too different to be compared. That aside, I think classical encyclopediae are much overrated, and shouldn't be used for citations, like Wikipedia shouldn't. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 10:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't seem to see much criticism in this article. Won't this be an NPOV problem? Kleinbell 02:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Whilst I am aware that being commonwealths is merely to have a different name, I do feel that the fact that 4 of the "states" are techincally not states but commonwealths (and are merely considered to be states for the sake of simplicity and convenience) should be mentioned at least somewhere in the article, with a link to the Commonwealth (United States) article. I have attempted to put it in to instructions of various users who revert my previous attempts to put it in, but other users seem to disagree and revert it still. Anyway, what do people think about this? ChaosSorcerer91 09:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that there was a change from "white" to "Caucasian" and back recently, yet neither party has mentioned their rationale on the talk page. Personally, I prefer the term Caucasian. Ben Hocking ( talk| contribs) 22:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, to users from Russia and Esatern Europe, the term "Caucasian" or "Kavkazian" would be confusing. In russian, "Caucasian"/"Kavkazian" refers to people who are from the Caucasus mountains, and who are anything but white... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.7.43 ( talk) 00:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Either way using the term white is rather quite odd since we don't call 'black' people black, but rather african American. If were going to do that than 'white' people should now on be refered to as European Americans. I think it sounds rather dumb but so does african Americans, being white people can also come from africa. I'd very much like it if someone changed either african American to 'black' or changed 'white' to European American. I've yet to figure this editing thing out...-- SimaZao 19:29, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I believe that the terms "white" and "black" seem somewhat outdated since they were conceived during the slave trade, and there is really no such thing as white or black skin. "Caucasian" and "Subsaharan" seem more appropriate in identifying both physical appearance and ethnic identity. Furthermore, terms such as "European American" and "African American" should refer to national ancestry regardless of ethnic background, seeing as how there are both Caucasian Africans and Subsaharan Europeans. Unfortunately, "white" and "black," as both physical and ethnic labels, seem far too established into the American lexicon so it may be quite some time before they are superceded by any other less color-oriented terms. M5891 21:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Canada has "Canadian", Mexico has "Mexican" but for some reason there is a generalization to call someone from the USA, "American", is there a specific name for someone from the USA?
There is at least one other discussion of this that has some alternatives somewhere in the archives. I really do not want to dig through them right now (almost 11pm), so I'll leave it to someone else, preferably the asker. — Jaxad 0127 04:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
See American (word) or Alternative words for American or Alternative adjectives for U.S. citizens, kthx. — RVJ 22:33, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
If "Mexican is a legitimate name for people from the United States of Mexico (thats its full title), then "American" seems fine for people from United States of America.
well, maybe something like- The US guy, The US computer, etc, because if you say American you are talking about America. It's not wrong, but you're not specifying if it's from US, mexico, bolvia, etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.213.99.230 ( talk) 02:09, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
An American from the US is a US American. 82.71.48.158 17:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Just to be clear, there is a "specific name for someone from the USA." That name is "American." Is the term exclusive to U.S. nationals? Technically, no. Anyone from North, Central, or South America could arguably be referred to as an "American," but that's not how the word is used in the English language.— DCGeist 23:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
It is true, unfurtunatly, that the word American is currently used in the English laguage for the U.S. citizens, or yankee. This comes from a time where Europe was the cultural and economic center of the world and many immigrant, wanting to come to the new world, usually came to the U.S. since it was close to Europe. This resulted in Europeans calling U.S. Citizens, Americans. It is technically incorrect and offensive to many other people that live in other parts of North and South America. There are better ways to call Americans and the fact that the U.S. is the only country with the world america in it doesn't mean aything. If you wan to be technical, then then you would notice the name states United States Of America. Meaning that the U.S. is in America, not the whole america, so anyone living in America, using the correct wordly term, is called American, and not only U.S. citizens. As for a shorter and nicer way to call Americans, would be Yankee, It's short and looks cool since it has two e's. As for the southern people that could get angry at that, then just make up the word United Statian which at least three major laguages in the world alreaddy have (Spanish, French, and Portuguese). I cannot accept the fact that the Engligh laguage is so poor that they don't even have a word for an United States Citizens that is politically correct. 20:08 08 September 2007 —Preceding Daniel4swcomment added by Daniel4sw ( talk • contribs) 00:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I would like to make two points:
1st) I believe it should put in the article that there is an informal movement at the other American countries (already adopted by some press organs) to change the U.S.A. people and U.S.A.-related things to "North-American", "Anglo-American" and "estadunidense" (Portuguese) and "estadounidense" (Spanish), both meaning "United-Stater" or "United-Statean";
2nd) And, as a non-"United-Stater" (I'm Brazilian), I should agree with the ones complaining about the "American" word use. It is offensive for anyone outside U.S.A.(even Canadians), as the term "Yankees" is offensive for the U.S. citizens. At least "US American" could be used, since it's short and precise. -- Ivan Linares 18:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I hope they do change it. I see myself as not just a Canadian, but an American too. But I do not call myself an American, because people would think I am from the USA (which I am definately not). I would like to someday be able to call myself an American and not have anyone even think for a moment that I mean I am from the United States of America (but not rule this out as a possibility, as they too are Americans). Someone start a petition? lol 142.165.59.39 ( talk) 01:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
What has Germany got to do with Asia? What do your passports read? Thank you! -- Camaeron ( talk) 19:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think that people who are offended by people from the US calling themselves Americans have thought the issue through entirely. If refering to your nationality you would still use the term Canadian or Mexican. And if you wanted to say that you were from North America you would still have to say North American because their are two American continants. People call themselves after the name of their country, peolple from Canada call themselves Canadian, people from Mexico call themselves Mexican, people from Brazil call themselves Brazilian. So I think people from America should be able to call themselves American after all the reference is clear. If you were from Canada and wanted to say you were from North America you wouldn't say you were American any way so I don't see a problem. Please don't get angry. Just think about what I've said and consider it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.247.66 ( talk) 02:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
"American" can be both a national and continental term. An American in the national sense would be a native of the United States of America, and in the continental sense would be a native of either one of the American continents. Still, the U.S.A. is the only nation with "America" in its name and only natives of the U.S.A. generally refer to themselves as Americans, as does most of the international community. A similar comparison would be New York City to New York state. "New Yorker" could be applied either to a native of the state or, more specifically, a resident of the city. Yet whenever someone speaks or hears of "New York," he or she is most often referring to or imagining the city rather than the entire state. This is the same situation with the American nation over the American continents. M5891 22:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
The Crime portion of the Crime and Punishment section concentrates almost exclusively on Homicide and portrays the sole cause as lax gun controls. Property crime is given a single sentence with no numbers and an incorrect statement. The source shows about a 50% greater incidence in burglary in the England. Apwvt 16:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't sure where else to post this, but this seemed like the best place. I've noticed several times that when American, as in American person, is used in Wikipedia that it links to this article. Since there are many good editors involved in this project, I thought I would propose an idea for a separate article entitled American People (United States) with the "(United States)" part included to distinguish it from the current American people disambiguation page.
This article would be different from the current Demography of the United States article, which is almost entirely about reporting statistics. I was thinking the proposed article would be more literary in style, using those statistics but commenting on them as well. The United States is one of the most diverse countries on Earth, and the way in which people use the word "American" varies greatly both inside the country and out. To begin with, there is the history of immigration and sense of past identity. Many places in the Northeast and West coast will self-identify by ethnicity, calling themselves "Irish" or "Italian" even if they are U.S. born. In my own travels, these people are usually not regarded as "Irish" or "Italians" in Ireland or Italy, but as Americans, plain and simple. That is only one of the differences. There is also the interesting trend in the census that many white Southerners self-identify as "American," without any mention of their ethnicity. Is this because of a stronger sense of past association with the land? Does it have something to do with the dense population of African-Americans in that area as well? And while we're on the topic of race, that plays an important role in how an "American" views him or herself also, as does religion.
I think it would be a fascinating topic. I would start it myself if I could, but I know for a fact I won't be able to write it myself. What I wrote above is based mostly on observation, but I'm sure that there are studies that we can cite to this extent also. If other people are interested in doing this, I'll do my part to get the ball rolling. SpiderMMB 02:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
There appears to be a mistake under etymology. The name America was not, as many people think derived from Amerigo Vespucci, but from Richard Ameryk, who was the cheif investor in one of the voyages of Giovanni Caboto (John Cabot), who arrived several years before Vespucci. citation: The Book of General Ignorance, Faber 2006 79.66.205.109 16:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I removed the last sentence of the etymology page:
"The prevailing use of American as synonymous with U.S. citizen has aroused controversy, particularly in Latin America, where Spanish and Portuguese speakers refer to themselves as americanos and use estadounidense to describe a person from the United States.
I happen to speak Spanish and have done a good bit of work with Central Americans and Mexicanos. They call people from the US Americanos not themselves. While the soursed word 'estadounidense' does appear to exist it is not common usage. The reference cited does nothing to verify the alleged controversy this has aroused. If there is a controversy somewhere about the commonyuse of the term American and Americano to refer to the citizens of the United States I'd be curios to read about it. Query 06:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Good point. I didn't see that sentence. It's true, I only have been learning Spanish for about 1 year, and I've heard my Spanish teacher tell us that Americans are callled americanos. -- Iluvmesodou 07:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
In fact... In spanish you have to say Estadounidenses. It's commonly said also Yankies or Gringos. You will also hear Americano and Norte Americano but that is an error. It's somehow like hearing saying Chinos to people from Japan. You will hear unendlessley Americano as "American" (US) but officially it's Estadounidense.
I'm from Argentina —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.213.99.230 ( talk) 02:13, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
I am Latin American and I happen to say that America is a continent, not a country (as people from all other countries do). The word "americanos" in Portuguese and Spanish refer mainly to people in the continent America (there is no other word in any of these languages to refer to people in such continent) and sometimes, by an anglicist influence, it may also refer to people who live in the USA. However, for this case there is also the term "estadounidense". So, in order to avoid any misunderstandings, in Portuguese and Spanish people tend to use "americano" in association with the continent and "estadounidense" when talking about the country. The term "the Americas" in reference to the continent seems to be coloquial. In all other languages the name of the western continent is "America". I think calling the country USA by the name "America" is not correct because that is not its official name, but it is the name of the continent. It is a linguistic feature but it is incorrect and should be avoided. It would be same as calling people from Spain by the term "castellanos", when everybody knows that Castela is just one region of Spain. This is a very simple problem to solve. America is a continent and American is a person living in this continent. The United States of America constitute one country in the American continent and people from this country are "U.S. citizens", who carry "U.S passports", granted by the "U.S. Department of State", and so on. I hope this might help, and eventually solve the 'problem'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.211.91 ( talk) 23:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
thats a bizzare claim. Has great irony, yes, but Im not sure its appropriate for an encyclopedic article. I dont think that illegal supstances are frequently even considered as candidates for cash crops of a country; typically the concept is used only in relation to legal farming. Its simply outside the normal use of the concept of a cash crop. Its particularly problematic by being in the 'economy' section of the article, since it reffers to a part of the black market economy, while common economic indicators naturally focus on the legal sectory of the economy, so its incongruent. The article on Afganistan for instance does not mention poppy as its 'leading cash crop', but in the 'history' section as one of the problems it stuggles with while being rebuild. Only a single article is referenced for this unusual claim, and given that it reports data from a drug reform advocate, in an article clearly focused on the ironic value of this claim, perhaps it would be better to find more official pronouncement of 'leading cash crops' for inclusion of such bizzare a conclusion, as per "exceptional claims require exceptional sources" principle of wikipedia. For these reasons, Id suggest that sentence be removed. Id also suggest the article be moved from "United States" to "United States of America" and be titled by that full title, since thats the correct name of the country, and "united states" is a generic term - meaning simply some (any) states that are united, and has no characteristics of a proper name in any, even shortened, form (except if its considered from a US-centric perspective, but that would also be a problem for an international encyclopedia). -- 89.172.87.60 13:13, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely laughable. I thought it was vandalism until I saw it was "sourced". Not only does the sentence in question seem "tacked on" at the end of that paragraph, with no explanation why, It's listed as part of the nation's economy? The source in question mentions a frivolous study--- I beg you if you have one shred of common sense to remove the sentence in question until more sources are found from the USDA. Sneakernets 04:28, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
From what I can tell, Marijuana hasn't been included in any of the economic indicators cited within this section. In the interest of consistency, the singular study should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.174.146 ( talk) 21:25, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
A while back, I suggested that some more basic information on America's largest business sectors/ industries be added. I've located all the information I was referring to in the Census Bureau's Statistical Abstract of the United States 2007. You can check it out online--here's the link for the business section: http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/07statab/business.pdf.
Anyway here are the stats that strike me as most significant--they could be added to the opening part of the Economy section of the article or, perhaps, to the section's infobox. I know there are concerns about the length of the article, so I wanted to raise these items here and see if people agree that some or all belong in this article or only in the Economy of the United States article. Here goes (with the most recent available figures):
Largest business sectors (2003),
by gross business receipts: Wholesale and retail trade ($6,384 billion)
by net income: Finance and insurance ($425 billion)
by employment: Health care and social assistance: (15.47 million people)
Leading manufacturing field (2005), by contribution to GDP: Chemical products ($186 billion)
Leading international trade commodities (2005), by export value: Electrical machinery ($74.29 million) by import value: Vehicles ($195.93 million)
I'd be very interested to hear what people think. DocKino 20:01, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Before I say anything, it should be noted that I'm American (from Massachusetts). Even in what people consider the "yankee" states of New England, it's generally taught that the colonies pretty much lucked out. If it had been just a simple deal of Britain vs. Colonies with no outside complications, the colonies wouldn't have stood a chance. So do we really want to use the word "defeated" to describe the outcome of the American Revolutionary War? 75.69.110.227 21:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Djwardell 05:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I recently improved the layout and picture selection of the article only to find it being reverted for reasons of "restore consensus image selection and layout". Firstly is there really a consensus on picture selection and article layout? And if so this "consensus" is between who exactly? I find it very hard to believe there would be an exact consensus between all those who have ever edited this article on picture selection and article layout. Besides my improvements were only minor and anyone with any commonsense would realize these improvements improve the article as a whole and would have no need to undo them. I hope other editors can respect the improvements I have made and see them for what they are. Signsolid 10:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I did try to improve this article but it's become clear that a few will resist any change to the article including any improvements that could be made. I'm not sure whether this resisting of changes and improvements is down to certain editors who feel their say over this article is more important than all others and so are exercising a dominance over the article or whether it's just plain arrogance seeking an argument with others for the sake of it or perhaps a general anti-US sentiment which presents itself in the form of trying to stifle the article.
Either way the fact that as soon as the changes and improvements were made they were instantly swept away without any consideration as to whether the changes or some of the changes actually improved the article only goes to demonstrate how this article maybe be being stifled for any one of these reasons.
It's a shame that improving this article has now become as difficult as it is and it's the article which really loses out from a lack of improvements. There also seems to be a slight anti-US slant on this article which is a shame in itself and is a disgrace really when considering most of the editors of this article are themselves American. Signsolid 21:13, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
What do you all think of adding an international rankings section/table such as the one in the Canada article? Please discuss this possibility. I know that there are different ranking references throughout the article, but adding a table would provide a quick overview of where the US stands in comparison. Here is what the Canada table looks like:
Organization | Survey | Ranking |
---|---|---|
United Nations Development Programme | Human Development Index | 6 out of 177 |
A.T. Kearney/ Foreign Policy Magazine | Globalization Index 2005 | 6 out of 111 |
IMD International | World Competitiveness Yearbook 2007 | 10 out of 60 |
The Economist | The World in 2005 - Worldwide quality-of-life index, 2005 | 14 out of 111 |
Yale University/ Columbia University | Environmental Sustainability Index, 2005 (pdf) | 6 out of 146 |
Reporters Without Borders World-wide | Press Freedom Index 2006 | 16 out of 168 |
Transparency International | Corruption Perceptions Index 2005 | 14 out of 159 |
Heritage Foundation/ The Wall Street Journal | Index of Economic Freedom, 2007 | 10 out of 161 |
The Economist | Global Peace Index | 8 out of 121 |
Fund for Peace/ ForeignPolicy.com | Failed States Index, 2007 | 168 out of 177 [1] |
Thanks for considering!!! Mode lun 88
Great! I created the article, but since I'm busy in real life at the time, I'm counting on my fellow Wikipedians to expand it. I've left some suggestions on the talk page of the new article, feel free to edit and rearrange it as you see fit. Signature brendel 00:00, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
How much longer is this war gonna last? Are we gonna follow the guidelines at Wikipedia: Lead, or not? Will someone block the disruptor, before the article gets 'protected'. GoodDay 21:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Apologies ... I got a little carried away. Abtract 16:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I've seen only the OVERSE side of the Great Seal of the U.S. in the infobox. How about someone show the overse AND the REVERSE seals as well? Elwin Blaine Coldiron 02:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The Government and Politics section affirms that: "It is both a representative democracy and a constitutional republic, 'in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law.'"
However, regardless of how the representative aspects (proportionality or not) is managed, there is relative consensus that a necessary condition for a democracy to exist is that the countries citizens are eligible to vote in the elections that select their national government (in this case, executive and legislative branch). Nonetheless, in the case of the United States, there are more than four million U.S. citizens that are excluded from participating in U.S. elections.
So, under that scenario, the U.S. is not a representative democracy in which the "constitutional republic" is created to temper the rights of all minorities. since there are more than four million U.S. citizens that are not enfranchised and whose right to participate in the national government that holds sovereignty over them is not protected by law.
---
Does the U.S. aspire to be a "democracy" as part of its de jure or de facto public policy?
Hypathia 02:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but it seems that the mention under "US History: Superpower" of black bear attacks as similar to terrorism is absurd. I too enjoy a little Jon Stewart on occasion, but Wikipedia has its rules for a reason: we're trying to be an encyclopedia, no? Anyways, if someone would remove the bear blurb and the citation, I would be happy. Be silly somewhere else please, not somewhere where foreigners might form their first and maybe only impression of the US. Not to mention all of those students who get all of their info from wikipedia. Thanks, Jasper124c41 04:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
P.S. Who is little John Stewart? (I am from Finland, but I have spent much time studying and traveling in the great USA without encountering little John) Aleksi Peltola 04:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I see there is a footnote for this, although I don't have the book, I'm reluctant to question the statement. However... Can anyone think of an earlier "successful colonial war of independence"? My knowledge of empire is sadly lacking in these areas. Rich Farmbrough, 10:31 25 September 2007 (GMT).
The intro presently reads that the United States comprises "fifty states, one federal district, and fourteen territories." This may sound pedantic, but my understanding is that only the states and incorportated territories are actually part of the United States; the rest are possessions. A state or incorporated territory is considered to be a permanent part of the United States; all of the territories, save Palmyra Atoll, are unincorporated. A similar thing can be looked at the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is *part* of the United Kingdom, whereas the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are only *possessions* of it. Most lists of area and population do not include the territories, nor do most maps. The territories, I think, should be listed separately, along the lines of, "The United States comprises fifty states and one federal district, and has fourteen territories around the globe." or what not. (I don't think Palmyra Atoll is important enough to be listed separately in the intro) -- Golbez 23:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
They're territories that, in several cases, have exercised their right to self-determination via referenda and decided to stay US territories. "Possesses" is a bit harsh and imperial. Is it the most appropriate verb to use? MrZaius talk 17:21, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
In the Wiki on CUba there is a whol section on human rights violations. Surely there should be a separate section for this on the USA wiki. Abbu Ghraib and any topic on US terrorism covered in the documentary "The War on Democracy" could be included. Meraloma 21:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
"United States of America" is the proper name, and "United States" can refer to several other former or proposed nations. 69.12.155.64 01:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Question- The article says the United States is mostly in the Western Hemisphere. Understandably the territories such as Guam are in the Eastern Hemisphere, but I've never heard that parts of Alaska are Eastern. Can anyone find a valid source for this, to save me editing it and looking foolish? Darkage7 07:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Was there a indigenous name for America given by its aboriginal people? was it a name for the entire nation or were there just provincial names? and if so should it be included in the article in some detail in the etymology section and then in further detail in the Native American articles? just a asking out of curiosity, thank you, Maikeli MB 23:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Several days ago I added information in the section on Crime and Punishment. The section said that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I clarified that we have the highest documented incarceration rate, and provided figures to compare the US's rate with that of China. This information was reverted away by DCGeist with no discussion. There was also a section that said how "scholars" claimed the US's high homicide rate was related to its rates of gun ownership. This was funny, as it was right next to a graph showing the US's homicide rate compared to that of Canada, France, Germany, and Russia, with Russia's homicide rate being shown as four times higher than that of the US. I added a sentence saying that Russia's homicide rate is higher than that of the US, dispite Russia's stricter gun laws, and said that the issue was more complicated than a simple comparison of gun laws. This information was also reverted away without discussion by DCGeist. Finally, a section I added (with cite, from another wiki article) saying that the US's overall crime rate was comparable to that of Canada's was removed by DCGeist. I doubt he has issue with that cite in the other article I took it from, so why did it need to be removed from this one? I'd rather not get into an edit war, so I'm putting this here instead of just adding the information back in. I see no reason why it shouldn't be in the section, though. Any thoughts? - CumbiaDude 21:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I have two issues with this image, present in the Superpower section of this article.
Thank you. I was concerned that the recent change to the caption identifying (or attempting to identify) the specific type of aircraft might be incorrect. I've restored the inarguable noun (and concise description) "jets."
It had never occurred to me that the image might be misinterpreted in the way you describe, and I continue to believe it's not a serious concern. Let's see if anyone else has thoughts on the matter.— DCGeist 02:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Actually, we could keep the caption satisfatorily short while clarifying it thus: " U.S. Air Force jets flying above Kuwaiti oil fields destroyed by Iraq in the Gulf War, 1991." What do you think?— DCGeist 02:27, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
When reading this article the whole article generally has a negative view of the United States. The article is full of comparisons of how poorly the United States compares to other countries. Where are the comparisons showing where the United States performs better than others? That's because none are shown. In reality the United States excels in most areas yet none of these have been included into the article, only a mass of criticizing material has been included. The whole article reads in a very critical way of the United States pushing a point of view that the United States is a bad and finished country. I would have thought this article being one of the most popular articles on Wikipedia plus Wikipedia's neutral point of view policies should have made anti-US sentiment impossible. I suggest an administrator or a reliable editor(s) reviews the content of the article and removes any material which may breach WP:NPOV. It's much appreciated if anyone can help on this. 88.109.12.164 13:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
its nt negetive its nuetral —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.216.134.34 ( talk) 20:00, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
At 163 KB, this article is difficult to bring up to read or edit. On my high speed internet lines, connections and computer, it takes about a minute to load. Far too long for even the patient reader. Could there be a reasonable discussion on moving more text into sub-articles? Thanks Hmains 03:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Looking through this talk page this length issue has come up a few times, with no major objections. The quality of the info is excellent as are refs, but i just don't think the level of detail is required in many parts. Anyway, I've made two edits pushing details into the footnotes. maybe we could use the notation system seen in Australia for further small details? -- Merbabu 12:01, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
As pointed out above, please keep in mind that the sub-articles and splits already exist and have for several years. What we have here is a basis for a rewrite of those largely antiquated and unsourced articles. MrZaius talk 13:13, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Conceptually, I'm 100% in favor of Happyme22's addition of the image of Reagan's Berlin Wall speech. Crucial president, crucial historical event. But I don't feel the particular photo itself is really of encyclopedic quality. Do we have any free-image hounds here who might possibly locate a shot that shows the man doing his thing a bit more visibly? (Image-hunting wise, I'm a free-use maven, so I'm just not the guy for this task.) Come through and you will get a barnstar.— DCGeist 08:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I trimed this section of some details I believe are well-covered elsewhere, particularly the Bill of Rights, Bush v. Gore and United States presidential election, 2004. If I've been too bold, feel free to revert and start over. -- Evb-wiki 16:17, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
The demonym of the United States people is currently best know to be "Americans". But since this can be misleading, many people use different demonyms to describe the United States people. One of the most popular ones is "United Statians". This word was also published in Urban Dictonary's word of the day. See [www.urbandictionary.com]'s word of the day for the 4th of July, 2007. Currently it is located at [10]. The word's definition can be directly accessed at [11].
Definition 1 makes this argument. "All people born in North and South America, which are continents, are "Americans" - United Statians would be better suited to describe someone born in the United States."
If you do a Yahoo! Search for exact phrase "United Statian" with URL [www.urbandictionary.com] you will come up with a link to United Statians which has different content, yet the same URL. Perhaps it's slightly different. But definition 1 there has this to say.
" Most NON-English speaking countries, specially in Latin America and Europe, refer to people from the USA as "Estadounidenses&quo t;, "Etats-Uniens", etc. (United Statian) which is the right way to call them, because anyone who's born in the American Contienent, it's an American.
It's like if there was a country in Europe, named United States of Europe, and they auto call themselves "Europeans", anyone how lived in Europe would be an European, not just people from that country; in the same way, anyone who lives in America(s) is an American not just people from the USA.
Todos somos Americanos, desde Canada hasta Argentina, y los Estadounidences no tienen derecho de tomar nuestro nombre.
Where are all Americans, from Canada to Argentina, and the United Statians have no right to take our name. "
Therefore, I think this is a valid demonym to add to the United States of America Wikipedia page. How do I go about getting this passed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.50.132.89 ( talk) 23:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
In response to the original poster, you will not get this past because this has to be done by consensus, majority rule, and even if the majority are wrong, their decision stands. "American" as a demonym of the US is a fallacy, but vehemently upheld by US citizens and forced into public usage, whereas "American" does, in fact, refer to the people of the Americas, north and south. There are grumblings from various American (from the Americas, not just the US) anthropologists to change this fallacy but the reaction has been akin to that of the journalist covering the story of the outbreak of war with Canada in the South Park movie; "Naturally, we're not listening"... Tough break champ, you have a valid point, but good luck getting it through. 62.72.110.11 14:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
And, before people start getting angry about sources, here is a quote from anthropologist Marcelo Saavedra:
I am part of your virtual march. However, the body of your message needs to be more sensitive to all the Americans that live in the Americas. You use the term Americans to refer to US citizens. I must remind you that the term Americans refer to all of us that live either in North America (including and not solely the US), Central America or South America.
I have resent the message about the March to my contacts; I have a few thousand of them all over the Americas, changing "Americans" for "US citizens". Although I share your campaign, support it and spread the word, I think you should take this bit of criticism constructively and name things by their proper name. I am an American but I am not a US citizen and I fell quite annoyed when US citizens assume either consciously or unconsciously that 'America' is the US. I referred to the Monroe Doctrine by which US expansionism began by the motto "America for the Americans". We have to deconstruct this misinterpretation of history and recognize other Americans beyond your boundaries.
In solidarity, always!
Marcelo
The original can be found here:
http://www.avaaz.org/blog/en/w/paulhilder/2007/01/global_peace_march_this_saturday_spread_the_word.php
Marcelo Saavedra is a representative of the Andean Council of Indigenous Peoples (CANO), President of the Support Group for the the Peoples of the Americas (GAPA) as well as representative in North America of the Boliviain Permanent Assembly of Human Rights (APDHB) and a leading expert in the field of the rights of Indigenous People. TTFN 62.72.110.11 15:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
OK, checking the page history Avargasm and DCGeist are on the fringes of an edit war, please sort out your differences over a discussion on this talk page, you must be respected wikipedians to be able to edit the article so please act like you are. Thank you. Rick-Levitt Talk Contribs 08:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Why can I not edit this article. The lock clearly is not working as it is still being vandalised but I cannot revert it! Rick-Levitt Talk Contribs 20:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I believe the "Etymology" section should have a paragraph saying the terms "America" (for the country) and "American" (for U.S.-related things and people) are openly contested by every other non-U.S.A. American countries. The way it is, the article seems to say everybody accept them as they are. It would be next to reality and would show that the terms are not universally accepted, as well show at least part of the foreign opinion about the terms.
Thank you for your attention. -- Ivan Linares 19:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I would say that after viewing American it does not need to be mentioned at all here. Rick- Levitt Contribs 19:30, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
"American" as a demonym of the US is a fallacy, but vehemently upheld by US citizens and forced into public usage, whereas "American" does, in fact, refer to the people of the Americas, north and south. There are grumblings from various American (from the Americas, not just the US) anthropologists to change this fallacy but the reaction has been akin to that of the journalist covering the story of the outbreak of war with Canada in the South Park movie; "Naturally, we're not listening"... Tough break champ, you have a valid point, but good luck getting it through. 62.72.110.11 14:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
And, before people start getting angry about sources, here is a quote from anthropologist Marcelo Saavedra:
I am part of your virtual march. However, the body of your message needs to be more sensitive to all the Americans that live in the Americas. You use the term Americans to refer to US citizens. I must remind you that the term Americans refer to all of us that live either in North America (including and not solely the US), Central America or South America. I have resent the message about the March to my contacts; I have a few thousand of them all over the Americas, changing "Americans" for "US citizens". Although I share your campaign, support it and spread the word, I think you should take this bit of criticism constructively and name things by their proper name. I am an American but I am not a US citizen and I fell quite annoyed when US citizens assume either consciously or unconsciously that 'America' is the US. I referred to the Monroe Doctrine by which US expansionism began by the motto "America for the Americans". We have to deconstruct this misinterpretation of history and recognize other Americans beyond your boundaries. In solidarity, always! Marcelo
The original can be found here:
http://www.avaaz.org/blog/en/w/paulhilder/2007/01/global_peace_march_this_saturday_spread_the_word.php
Marcelo Saavedra is a representative of the Andean Council of Indigenous Peoples (CANO), President of the Support Group for the the Peoples of the Americas (GAPA) as well as representative in North America of the Boliviain Permanent Assembly of Human Rights (APDHB) and a leading expert in the field of the rights of Indigenous People. TTFN 62.72.110.11 15:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Also, stuff about Frank Lloyd Wright on demonyms for the citizen of the US: http://osdir.com/ml/culture.studies.general/2003-10/msg00025.html
A search for "USonians" or "United Statians" will show that these terms are entering into common usage as people become more aware of the fallacy of the demonym for US citizens being "American" whereas it is the demonym of the continent as a whole. In the same way as individual nations within Europe and Africa have country names and demonyms therein, they also have a continental name and a continental demonym. Residents of Germany are German, of England they are English, France - French etc. but when it comes to Europe, they are European. Kenya has Kenyans, Morocco has Moroccans, Africa has Africans. The US has USonians or United Statians, Canada has Canadians, Mexico has Mexicans, the Americas have Americans.
62.72.110.11
15:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
- This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the United States article.
- This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
The term "US Citizen" is a term used to describe citizens of the United States by people who also inhabit the Americas, as well as by a large proportion of the civilised world. "American" is a demonym used by inhabitants of the United States to describe themselves, while failing to recognise either that there are other nations on the same continent (comprising over 440 million individuals) or while failing to realise a world exists outside their borders (yes, it does happen). It is also used by European English speakers who have been somewhat dulled by the predominance of US culture in Europe and, thus, also adopt the term. Now, although this is a page on the US, mainly edited by citizens of the US, and often vetoing anything considered "Un-American", perhaps it is time for a change of attitude and some sort of new "Golden Age of Rennaissance" whereby facts and truths are not only accepted, but supported and upheld. Or perhaps this is an opportunity to watch ignorance flex its beefy, hairy, malcoordinated arm once more. 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 16:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
As regards the discussion, the use of "American" in this context could easily be construed as racist, and has been, thus my proposal to change "American" to "US citizen" is an improvement. 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 16:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I'm just wondering why my version of the page was removed (by a bot no less). The page was lacking some much-needed info about the current history of America. It mentioned nothing about the economic troubles we faced in the late '70s, as well as the Iran hostage crisis of 1979. The only thing it said about Ronald Reagan was that he influenced American politics. Ok, but that didn't even capture the full effect of his presidency, during which some major world-changing events occured. I cited all "controversial" statements. There was nothing wrong with the edit, and a bot removed it! Happyme22 04:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
While the bot's behavior is inexcusable, I'm partially reverting for the general reason detailed in extensive discussion above--we need to be looking at shrinking the article, not growing. The history section is generall seens as the leading candidate for such shrinkage, as we already have a fine article on the History of the United States. More specifically,
By the same token, having added Carter, we really do have to at least briefly mention the first President Bush, which I have done.— DCGeist 17:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that this page should be added to the external links section. It provides a very well laid out collection of direct links associated with the topic. The time and work put into building this page is very evident and I believe that it could be a very useful resource for academic study on the United States especially in conjunction with this Wikipedia article.
It is:
I think that this link should be added to the external links section. It will provide this article will personal opinions and stories specifically relating to the subject. This will add a more personnel outlet if the viewer feels inclined to follow the link.
Here is the link:
Editors, please keep an eye on edits by M5891, who has edit warred in this section in the past (see article revision history for October 8–10). This user, who never leaves an edit summary or participates in Talk, aims to do several things, specifically concerning the discussion of Hispanic Americans:
— DCGeist 00:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the first talk page I've come across so I will now explain my actions.
Hispanicity concerns ethnicity and should therefore be independent from racial categories, which is why I've been placing it at the bottom of the infobox containing "Race and Ethnicity" to signify that it encompasses all of the aforementioned racial groups.
As far as Hispanics being labeled an "ethnic minority," I suppose that you would have to consider European Americans as the "ethnic majority." However, Europe has been the destination for African, Asian, and Latin American immigrants in recent years and now encompass different racial and non-European ancestral groups.
Spanish Americans would have to be included in both categories (Hispanic and European).
The category "Hispanic or Latino" would also have to include descendants of Lusitanic and Francophone nations such as Brazil and Haiti, respectively, since they are Latino as well.
Hispanic is a broad term for people descended from Spain or its Spanish-influenced former territories, as well as current Spanish citizens, and itself encompasses various racial and ancestral groups. The same can be said about the terms Anglo (British-descended or influenced), Francophone (French-descended or influenced), and Lusitanic (Portuguese-descended or influenced), which can be found all throughout the world encompassing different racial and ancestral groups. These other ethnic groups are present in the United States as well as Hispanics, so why aren't they also officially considered minorites? —Preceding unsigned comment added by M5891 ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that my words have had at least some impact. Perhaps sooner than later Hispanic Americans will be fully accepted and integrated both socially and demographically, eliminating the practic of separate ethnic categorization. I just wish I knew about this discussion page sooner. M5891 21:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Summary of the requested move discussion:
For the record, I agree with Dekimasu's decisions to close the following poll and to state that the result was "no consensus". However, I am opposed to anybody closing a poll with anything more than clearly-NPOV statements. Providing additional commentary, as did Dekimasu, is effectively an attempt to get in the last word, which was briefly the first word because it appeared at the top of the discussion.
In case you're wondering, Dekimasu's specific phrase that I object to is "the names of articles aren't based on official names". I have not been able to verify that statement; it is not found in any of the following:
Actually, all of those pages state that official names are preferable at times.
JonathanFreed
21:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. There is disagreement as to whether "United States of America" is the official name of the entity or not, but it is only tangential to the main question, because the names of articles aren't based on official names. citation needed There is little evidence (other than evidence of the anecdotal sort) that the country is most commonly referred to as "United States of America". The ambiguity of the title is minimal and unlikely to confuse, and even after a move United States (the most common form in running encyclopedia text) would remain a primary topic redirect to the new name, so a move wouldn't save any users a click. Dekimasu よ! 03:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I propose that the page on the "United States" be moved to the "United States of America" since that is its official name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicolaususry ( talk • contribs) 14:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Now that our major debate over the article name and our mini-debate concerning the Demographics section have been resolved, I'd like to turn to this section--really a table--that was recently added by DevinCook. Let me first say that I really admire the care with which DevinCook created this states table/section--if everyone was this conscientious about the quality of their work, Wikipedia would be a much better place for it. Regretfully, therefore, I oppose its inclusion in the article. Given our extensively discussed size concerns; given the fact that we link to the relevant detailed article, U.S. state, both in the very first sentence of the article and as a highlighted link at the top of the Government and politics section; and given my belief that—if a consensus emerges that this level of detail needs to be included—a readable political map of the country would better serve our readers (a related, but separate, debate), I believe the section should be deleted from the article.— DCGeist 06:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Golbez's intelligent expansion of the introduction to the section has, ironically, further clarified an additional problem with it. It strikes me as out of place at the end of the article—if it is going to exist in its current form, thematic sense suggests that it be placed at one of several possible points earlier in the article; the most logical, I think, would be between the History and Government and politics sections. But then, do we really want this large table whose substantive content is almost purely links in the middle of the article? A quandary. As a secondary point, the material added to its intro--which, again, was intelligently drafted to give the section satisfactory substance--of necessity contains material that is either (a) redundant of material already present elsewhere in the article or (b) of a level of detail not vital to this overview article.
Here is my proposal, offered for debate: That the section be eliminated and a mini-version of Image:Map of USA with state names.svg be placed in the existing Government and politics section (much as we have the mini-versions of Image:US states by date of statehood3.gif and Image:U.S. Territorial Acquisitions.png in the Independence and expansion subsection).— DCGeist 05:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
"(a british invention but built and tested on american land)" (regarding the Manhattan project) "Controversy has arisen about the matter of America claiming too much glory for the war even though they only jjoined half way through and suffered the least casualties out of the competing countrys. This has led too much xophobia especially in britain and russia who fought for the whole six years and suffered hundreds of thousands/millions (in the case of russia) This has also led to the British getting upset over Americans claiming to have "saved britain" during the war." - Self Explanatory.
These two quotes are located in the section discussing world war two. Due to the fact that in the past few years of editing wikipedia I have not registered an account I am unable to revert the page. Can anyone else edit the page, or, at the very least, correct the above quotes' author's spelling (and grammar, if needed)? 202.216.122.194 12:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm talking about american citizens who are from here or became citizens here make sure to add alexander graham bell to that list —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChesterTheWorm ( talk • contribs) 17:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Why are we being compared with europe as if its a country? why not compare us with japan? LoL i'd like an awnser to this and or if you dont have one take those comparisons off —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChesterTheWorm ( talk • contribs) 18:50, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
When I looked up "fascism" in Wikipedia, I was redirected to the page on the "United States." Is anyone else having this problem? -- Armaetin 00:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Someone needs to fix the archive bot - it's time to archive this page. I would do so myself manually if it wasn't for the automated bot. Could someone with more know-how on WP bots please activate or notify the bot to archive this page. Thank you, Signature brendel 00:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
As the USA has no de jure national language, should the infobox reflect the states the have several de facto languages? -- Neon white 17:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
At the end of the Sports section, several athletes are mentioned as world famous. Lance Armstrong is an extremely noteworthy American athlete and should be added to this list. Andrew Davis Price 07:13, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Please edit:
The end of this article states that the only "integral" parts of US territory other than the states is DC and Palmyra Atoll. A 12 square mile uninhabited island? How about we replace that with Puerto Rico?
-- 71.212.17.191 04:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I have a suggestion to make. The article United States should be split into several articles. My computer is slow whenever I load the page United States, and the article is getting closer to 200 kilobytes. NHRHS2010 talk 18:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I have noticed many wikipedia article about people claim their nationality is American. Is this an actual nationality? I was under the impresson Canadians etc could refer to themselves as American too (rather like the term European). I have looked on the German site and they always state US-American as a nationality. Moreover I have found wikipedia to be harbouring quite a few mistakes. Many Britons are referred to as English which in reality hasnt been a nationality for over 300 yrs. Thank you for any information. -- Camaeron ( talk) 21:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Its not really a question of taking offence. Anyone who takes offence at their own nationality must be a fool. I am a Briton but would be an Englishman if there should be such a thing. I think I shall continue to use the term US-Americans as there is no term for the continent otherwise. The UK did have a similiar problem. One can live outside of Britain (Northerd Ireland doesnt belong to Britain, though it does belong to the UK) and yet ones nationality is still British. A question to Natalie: Is United Kingdom-ian used also? Thanks for your answers. -- Camaeron ( talk) 13:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Is it true? I think it is at least not far from it. (I have never been there, but I have read about the situation and seen it on television) See this: [14]. It is not directly a good source, BUT what he is saying can be proved (induvidually) by other sources (I think). Helpsloose ( talk) 04:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The fact remains, the article will not be changed, this is therefore an unhelpful topic and should be closed. -- Golbez ( talk) 01:34, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
The Youtube videos are based on studies and the like, they are not just people stating that the united states is fascist with out support. My argument to Nicholas's is that this country does show signs of religion in the government, racial supremecy, and a sense of cultural supremacy. We swear our leaders in on bibles, our country is still very seperated by class ethnically, and we frown upon countries of opposing cultural beliefs. Take the French for example, we went so far as to rename french fries as freedom fries. Also, that we do not believe this will change the page, we should still bring it to attention. It seemed unpractical for people to resist the nazis, but do we scoul on those who did it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.189.133.20 ( talk) 06:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Building on my suggestion of a few weeks ago, and having considered the issues raised by other editors, I'm making a major edit for editors' consideration: removing the in-article table presenting the fifty states by name accompanied by their flags and substituting a fully Wikilinked template version of Image:Map of USA with state names.svg, specifically Template:USA midsize imagemap with state names. This will reduce our KB weight (by almost 5 KB) while increasing the amount of information delivered in a similar amount of space. While I understand that external templates have some hidden effect on download time, the net result, if not a significant time savings, should at least be close to zero (if someone technically knowledgeable could check this, that would be great). Let me know what you think; if you concur with the substitution, one question is the size of the templated map. I attempted to set it at the smallest size where the state names could be read without undue strain. Best, Dan.— DCGeist ( talk) 19:48, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The last line of the "Etymology" Section contains this line "American is rarely used in English to refer to people not connected to the United States.". This is not only completely false, but is rather racist. Please remove it. Either that or change it. Something like "American is rarely used by Americans to refer to people not connected to the United States" or "American is a fallacious demonym used, due to a lack of imagination during the founding years of the United States, by US citizens unaware of their neighbouring countries, as well as their own history and culture, which features not only the annihilation of the "Native" American people (also often referring, falsely, to the indigenous people of North America, whereas native Americans were first encountered by Europeans in the Southern Americas) but also various military forays and operations into the lands of other American nations, most notably during the drug wars during the latter part of the 20th century" Happy Editing! 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 17:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Define "almost exclusively". It's not that I don't like it, you people have some NPOV thing going on here that I am more than happy to abide by, but it is false. Okay, it may be correct on the assumption that it refers to anyone connected to the United States vis a vis their residence on the same continent, but "American" also refers to the many indigenous peoples of South America (those of the northern americas now virtually extinct) as well as inhabitants of the (entire) Americas, North, South and Central. English is one of the world's most widely spoken languages (and not just by US or UK citizens), and merely because the majority of those who edit this article say "American" (and probably are "American") means US related, it is not "in fact" so, unless you refer to the fact that anyone that can, could be or is referred to as American shares, as previously stipulated, the same landmass. If you want to describe usage, why not investigate how those outside the US use the word, not just those inside the US. Otherwise you are prescribing usage, and not describing usage. 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 17:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello DC, I took you up on your request and went one better, I provided some citations from reputable English language sources based in the USA; most notably the US Government. Please see some links below. The last one is particularly interesting; it is the US Constitution; you may find many a mention of the citizen of the United States, and not one “American”. Many of the rest are sites that describe US Citizens without the continental demonym. The mistake is easy to make; the US is on the continent of America, thus all inhabitants of the continent are American. Just as all inhabitants of Europe are European. However, just because the English speak English they don’t tell the world they’re Europeans, that their country is called Europe and that their citizens are called European, because they aren't, they are English. The Official name for a citizen of the US, even, apparently, according to the US administration, is a US Citizen; American being the demonym of the continent America, not the nation the USA. “American” is a colloquialism that has caught on in US culture. The US administration appears to regard “US Citizen” as the official version.
http://www.uscitizenship.info/ins-USimmigration-learn.htm http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/11/21/long_wait_expected_to_become_us_citizen/ http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD&vgnextchannel=96719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html http://www.irs.gov/faqs/faq-kw201.html http://iraq.usembassy.gov/iraq/us_citizenship.html http://luxembourg.usembassy.gov/service.html http://mali.usembassy.gov/general_information2.html http://www.mongolianembassy.us/eng_consular_and_visa/visa_info_for_us_citizen_only.php http://sanpedrosula.usvpp.gov/service.html http://wellington.usembassy.gov/usc_arrest.html http://www1.cuny.edu/about/citizenship/faqs/citizen.html http://www.maricopa.edu/hrweb/payroll/hireweb/nraform.htm
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
All the best. 62 72 110 11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.244.133.151 ( talk) 21:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Fine, I proved the wrong point, it was one I was discussing, and being ignored over, earlier. Anyhow, you're behaving like a child, even if I'm behaving like an asshole. Native American, South American, Central American; three terms that refer to Americans who have nothing to do with the US. Or you can prove me wrong by denying these places don't exist (combined, they have a greater population than the US, maybe two times greater if the Yanquis hadn't tried to kill everything that moved). Just because YOU refuse to acknowledge a world outside your borders, doesn't mean there isn't one. My comments on the page were fair, non NPOV, made by a man (Marcelo Saveedra, anthropologist) with an education, a career and a life (even if my comments to you, you loathsome cur, were not). I tried to keep a fair, two sided view on just that one line, but you damn yanks just have to have it your own way. I can't wait for your economy to crash. Have a nice day! 62.72.110.11 ( talk) 14:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Just as an exercise, try this google search.
Ignore the results which, despite the domain exclusion restrictions on the search, are clearly of US-based origin. The point of the exercise is to illustrate that non-US-based usage of the term "American" to mean "U.S." is not uncommon. -- Boracay Bill 23:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
This entire issue is already discussed exhaustively and fairly at American (word), as I noted above. Our anonymous IP visitor from 62.72.110.11 is obviously ignorant of the history of the article United States (namely, the need to keep such minor details out of it), as well as Wikipedia official policies like Verifiability, What Wikipedia is not, No original research, and Neutral point of view. Not too bright. -- Coolcaesar 20:22, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, so now I'm a moron because I haven't spent my life learning wikipedia (the FREE) encyclopedia's pages of policy and laws, as well as meticulously picking through each pithy discussion on this page? As opposed to rationally discussing the issue, informing me of prior discussions on the subject (let alone welcoming me) I was treated like some kind of scum, and I reacted badly. I think the American vs US citizen is an issue to be considered more carefully (even if the result stays the same). How can you promote consensus when you spend your time telling everyone who comments on the issue that they are wrong and telling you to shut up, and how you are a moron. Perhaps if this community was a little more tolerant and willing to discuss, I wouldn't have acted like an asshole. However, the irritating way in which anyone who isn't a member of the "ruling elite" (the most frequent of editors on the accursed uncyclopedia, as it has become)as it were is instantly wrong, and not even worth listening to is just disgusting; you create a an unpleasant environment in which to contribute and give the project as a whole a bad name.
I would apologise for being a retard if your criteria for being such revolved around anything more than not spending 18 hours a day editing Wikipedia. Your patronising points of view are more sickening than my lack of patience with people like you. 62.72.110.11 14:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
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Is the US not the most diverse nation in the world? Virtually, people have come from every corner of the world..which is not seen in any other countries. Rotinajeht ( talk) 06:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)