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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nolantommy79.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 11:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The khanates Karabakh, Guba, Talish, Sheki were independent. This is proven, for example, by the fact that they minted their own coins. They had Ambassadors in foreign countries (e.g., Russia for Karabakh khanate). And most importantly, they signed individual treaties on accession to the Russian Empire, separate from the Gulistan and Turkmenchay treaties. Obviously, the Russian tsar would not bother signing treaties with vassals of another empire -- only with independent rulers. That's why traditionally, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs rebuffed all Iranian claims to lands north of Araxes, stating that even before the Gulistan Treaty was signed, many of those khanates were independent and voluntarily joined the Russian empire. Some references about the independence of the khanates can be found in John F. Baddeley's 1908 book, for example. Others are clear from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia and its map. --adil 04:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's from John F. Baddeley, "The Russian Conquest of the Caucasus", Longman, Green and Co., London: 1908. "Potto [Russian military historian and general] sums up Tsitsianoff's [the first general, commander of Russian army] achievements and character as follows: "In the short time he passed there (in Transcaucasia) he managed to completely alter the map of the country. He found it composed of minutely divided, independent Muhammadan States leaning upon Persia, namely, the khanates of Baku, Shirvan, Shekeen, Karabagh, Gandja, and Erivan, to which must be added the territory of the Djaro-Bielokani Lesghians, the pashalik of Akhaltsikh..." (p. 71)
Then again when describing the aftermath of Tsitsinaov's murder: "The Georgian princes found in it a fresh opportunity to pursue their personal ambitions; the Muhammadan khans renewed hope of independence; while Turkey and Persia were only too ready to encourage all who on any pretext, or for any reason, were hostile to Russia." (p. 73)
Also, this is a key quote, showing best what Gulistan Treaty really was, and what it was not: "...an armistice was followed in October by the preliminary treaty of Gulistan. Russia by this instrument was confirmed in possession of all the khanates -- Karabagh, Gandja, Shekeen, Shirvan, Derbend, Kouba, and Baku, together with part of Talish and the fortress of Lenkoran. Persia further abandoned all pretensions to Daghestan, Georgia, Mingrelia, Imeretia, and Abkhazia." (p. 90)
"One by one the khanates and other independent States, by policy or by arms, were being brought within the fold of the empire." (p. 135)
"Count Zouboff in 1796 had transferred the throne of Shirvan to his cousin, Kasim, but no sooner had the Russians retired that Moustafa recovered possession, and retained his independence until the fall of Gandja and conquest of Karabagh in Tsitsianoff's time. He had the submitted to Russian suzeiranty..." (p. 139)
"Of all the khanates, Talish, the most distant, alone remained independent, for the reason that its rulers were implacably hostile to Persia." (p. 144)-- adil 01:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
user:Azerbaijani, do you realize that your edit, wording, made the article less precise? Compare it with the version before your edit: [1] Here's why: you leave "All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia, including all the villages and towns on the coast of the Black Sea, such as: Megrelia, Abkhazia, Imeretia, Guria;"
Do you know that "Guria" is Georgia? Do you know that "Georgia", when clicked, takes the person to the modern-day Republic of Georgia page, whilst in case of Azerbaijan you change to:
"Baku (now capital of the Republic of Azerbaijan), Shirvan, Derbend, Karabakh, Ganja, Sheki, Guba, part of the khanate of Talysh;"
Compare it with:
"All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia, including all the villages and towns on the coast of the Black Sea, such as: Megrelia, Abkhazia, Imeretia, Guria; Almost all the cities, towns and villages of Azerbaijan, including: Baku (now capital of Azerbaijan Republic), Shirvan, Derbend, Karabakh, Ganja, Sheki, Guba, part of the khanate of Talysh;"
Here it identified, properly, both of the modern day republics, and groups the Russian conquests and otherwise aquisitions appropriately. I am not reverting you, letting you study the subject more if you need. However, you can just revert to my version and then edit other aspects of the page. Adding the Gulistan Treaty's tex might also be good if you can find the text. -- adil 05:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Georgia existed back then, the Republic of Azerbaijan did not. You had put in Almost all the cities, towns and villages of Azerbaijan, including: which is false, as none of those cities or villages were in Azerbaijan at the time. Also, do not attempt to put articles into the treaty that were NOT THERE!
Here are the exact terms of the treaty:
1. Persia (Iran) loses all its territories to the north of Aras River and is forced via this treaty to recognize Russia's authority over them henceforth. These lands include: - All the cities, towns, and villages of Dagestan. - All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia, including all the villages and towns on the coast of the Black Sea, - Baku in Arran province (now capital of modern Azerbaijan Republic), - Derbent, - Shirvan, - Megrelia, - Karabakh, - Ganja, - Shekin, - Abkhazia, - Mughan, - Imeretia, - Guria, - The khanates of Talysh.
2. Iran loses all rights to navigate the Caspian Sea, and Russia is granted exclusive rights to station its military fleet in the Caspian Sea. 3. Both countries agree on the establishment of free trade, with Russians having free access to conduct business anywhere in Iran. 4. Russia in return promises to support Abbas Mirza as heir to the Persian throne after the death of Fath Ali Shah. (which did not happen)
This is taken from CAIS (University of London), and your replacement of this is a direct violation of Wikipedia's policies. The articles of the treaty need to be replaced by the above.
Adil, no matter how many times I have explained this to you, you still do not seem to understand wikipedia's policies against POV and against OR! Azerbaijani 13:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
As if the new quote Atabek provided, and several quotes from Baddeley I provided above were not enough, here are a few more:
Baku "fell into the hands of Persia in the sixteenth century, although it maintained its autonomy under a separate Khan. The Russians finally stormed and took it in 1806, and in a few months' time it will have been a century under the dominion of Russia". Source: James Dodds Henry, "Baku, an Eventuful History", Ayer Publishing 1977 Reprint of the 1905 ed. published by A. Constable, London, p. 3. [2]
"This success caused the Chans of Derbent, Baku, Karabagh, Karaikaitakh, and the Sultan of the Avares, to take the oath of fidelity to Russia." Source: Francis Rawdon Chesney. "The Russo-Turkish Campaigns of 1828 and 1829: With a View of the Present State of Affairs in the...", 1854, p. 27. [3] -- adil 02:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
"The treaty of Golesta@n was naturally a great disappointment for the Persians and was bitterly opposed by officials such as Mirza@ Bozorg. Although Persia had performed reasonably well in the war prior to AÚsála@nduz and had counted heavily on Britain to protect its interests in the negotiations, it had not only had to recognize the Russian position in Georgia but give up any claim to authority over the khanates of the eastern Caucasus and make other major political and economic concessions."
Finally, we have the full text of the treaty in the original Russian available to us, and here's the precise wording of the article 3:
СТАТЬЯ ТРЕТЬЯ
Его Шахское Величество в доказательство искренней приязни Своей к Его Величеству Императору Всероссийскому, сим торжественно признает, как за себя, так и за Высоких Преемников Персидскаго престола, принадлежащими в собственность Российской Империи Ханства: Карабагское и Ганджинское, обращенное ныне в провинцию под названием Елисаветпольской. Также Ханства: Шекинское, Ширванское, Дербентское, Кубинское, Бакинское и Талышинское с теми землями сего Ханства, кои ныне состоят во власти Российской Империи. При том весь Дагестан, Грузию с Шурагельскою провинциею, Имеретию, Гурию, Мингрелию и Абхазию, равным образом все владения и земли, находящиеся между постановленною ныне границею и Кавказскою линиею, с прикосновенными к сей последней и к Каспийскому морю землями и народами. -- adil 05:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Secondly, why do you keep reverting the terms of the treaty? Also, your criticism of Iranica, one of the most reliable sources of Iranian history in the world (see this for example: [4]), is really getting ridiculous, and will get you NOWHERE. Azerbaijani 22:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
That was a mistake nevermind that. Artaxiad 22:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
"12 Oct 1813 Sovereignty ceded by Iran to Russia by Treaty of Gulistan" [5] Anyone more info? - Pieter_v ( talk) 22:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
My research seems to indicate that the map used here is incorrect, as what is now the Azerbaijan–Iran border was fixed by this treaty. The map used suggests that the Gulistan border was fixed entirely along the Aras river, with south-east Azerbaijan only added to Russia after the Treaty of Turkmenchai. WisDom-UK ( talk) 21:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I've created a new map of the Caucasus after the Treaty of Gulistan which is much more accurate than the currently used map. Thanks to Benyamin for helping with the borders of Talysh Khanate and how the khanate was split up after the Treaty of Gulistan. The names of cities and lakes have also been changed to align with how they were called during the said period. Here's the map — CuriousGolden (talk· contrib) 11:36, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nolantommy79.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 11:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The khanates Karabakh, Guba, Talish, Sheki were independent. This is proven, for example, by the fact that they minted their own coins. They had Ambassadors in foreign countries (e.g., Russia for Karabakh khanate). And most importantly, they signed individual treaties on accession to the Russian Empire, separate from the Gulistan and Turkmenchay treaties. Obviously, the Russian tsar would not bother signing treaties with vassals of another empire -- only with independent rulers. That's why traditionally, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs rebuffed all Iranian claims to lands north of Araxes, stating that even before the Gulistan Treaty was signed, many of those khanates were independent and voluntarily joined the Russian empire. Some references about the independence of the khanates can be found in John F. Baddeley's 1908 book, for example. Others are clear from the Great Soviet Encyclopedia and its map. --adil 04:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Here's from John F. Baddeley, "The Russian Conquest of the Caucasus", Longman, Green and Co., London: 1908. "Potto [Russian military historian and general] sums up Tsitsianoff's [the first general, commander of Russian army] achievements and character as follows: "In the short time he passed there (in Transcaucasia) he managed to completely alter the map of the country. He found it composed of minutely divided, independent Muhammadan States leaning upon Persia, namely, the khanates of Baku, Shirvan, Shekeen, Karabagh, Gandja, and Erivan, to which must be added the territory of the Djaro-Bielokani Lesghians, the pashalik of Akhaltsikh..." (p. 71)
Then again when describing the aftermath of Tsitsinaov's murder: "The Georgian princes found in it a fresh opportunity to pursue their personal ambitions; the Muhammadan khans renewed hope of independence; while Turkey and Persia were only too ready to encourage all who on any pretext, or for any reason, were hostile to Russia." (p. 73)
Also, this is a key quote, showing best what Gulistan Treaty really was, and what it was not: "...an armistice was followed in October by the preliminary treaty of Gulistan. Russia by this instrument was confirmed in possession of all the khanates -- Karabagh, Gandja, Shekeen, Shirvan, Derbend, Kouba, and Baku, together with part of Talish and the fortress of Lenkoran. Persia further abandoned all pretensions to Daghestan, Georgia, Mingrelia, Imeretia, and Abkhazia." (p. 90)
"One by one the khanates and other independent States, by policy or by arms, were being brought within the fold of the empire." (p. 135)
"Count Zouboff in 1796 had transferred the throne of Shirvan to his cousin, Kasim, but no sooner had the Russians retired that Moustafa recovered possession, and retained his independence until the fall of Gandja and conquest of Karabagh in Tsitsianoff's time. He had the submitted to Russian suzeiranty..." (p. 139)
"Of all the khanates, Talish, the most distant, alone remained independent, for the reason that its rulers were implacably hostile to Persia." (p. 144)-- adil 01:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
user:Azerbaijani, do you realize that your edit, wording, made the article less precise? Compare it with the version before your edit: [1] Here's why: you leave "All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia, including all the villages and towns on the coast of the Black Sea, such as: Megrelia, Abkhazia, Imeretia, Guria;"
Do you know that "Guria" is Georgia? Do you know that "Georgia", when clicked, takes the person to the modern-day Republic of Georgia page, whilst in case of Azerbaijan you change to:
"Baku (now capital of the Republic of Azerbaijan), Shirvan, Derbend, Karabakh, Ganja, Sheki, Guba, part of the khanate of Talysh;"
Compare it with:
"All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia, including all the villages and towns on the coast of the Black Sea, such as: Megrelia, Abkhazia, Imeretia, Guria; Almost all the cities, towns and villages of Azerbaijan, including: Baku (now capital of Azerbaijan Republic), Shirvan, Derbend, Karabakh, Ganja, Sheki, Guba, part of the khanate of Talysh;"
Here it identified, properly, both of the modern day republics, and groups the Russian conquests and otherwise aquisitions appropriately. I am not reverting you, letting you study the subject more if you need. However, you can just revert to my version and then edit other aspects of the page. Adding the Gulistan Treaty's tex might also be good if you can find the text. -- adil 05:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Georgia existed back then, the Republic of Azerbaijan did not. You had put in Almost all the cities, towns and villages of Azerbaijan, including: which is false, as none of those cities or villages were in Azerbaijan at the time. Also, do not attempt to put articles into the treaty that were NOT THERE!
Here are the exact terms of the treaty:
1. Persia (Iran) loses all its territories to the north of Aras River and is forced via this treaty to recognize Russia's authority over them henceforth. These lands include: - All the cities, towns, and villages of Dagestan. - All the cities, towns, and villages of Georgia, including all the villages and towns on the coast of the Black Sea, - Baku in Arran province (now capital of modern Azerbaijan Republic), - Derbent, - Shirvan, - Megrelia, - Karabakh, - Ganja, - Shekin, - Abkhazia, - Mughan, - Imeretia, - Guria, - The khanates of Talysh.
2. Iran loses all rights to navigate the Caspian Sea, and Russia is granted exclusive rights to station its military fleet in the Caspian Sea. 3. Both countries agree on the establishment of free trade, with Russians having free access to conduct business anywhere in Iran. 4. Russia in return promises to support Abbas Mirza as heir to the Persian throne after the death of Fath Ali Shah. (which did not happen)
This is taken from CAIS (University of London), and your replacement of this is a direct violation of Wikipedia's policies. The articles of the treaty need to be replaced by the above.
Adil, no matter how many times I have explained this to you, you still do not seem to understand wikipedia's policies against POV and against OR! Azerbaijani 13:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
As if the new quote Atabek provided, and several quotes from Baddeley I provided above were not enough, here are a few more:
Baku "fell into the hands of Persia in the sixteenth century, although it maintained its autonomy under a separate Khan. The Russians finally stormed and took it in 1806, and in a few months' time it will have been a century under the dominion of Russia". Source: James Dodds Henry, "Baku, an Eventuful History", Ayer Publishing 1977 Reprint of the 1905 ed. published by A. Constable, London, p. 3. [2]
"This success caused the Chans of Derbent, Baku, Karabagh, Karaikaitakh, and the Sultan of the Avares, to take the oath of fidelity to Russia." Source: Francis Rawdon Chesney. "The Russo-Turkish Campaigns of 1828 and 1829: With a View of the Present State of Affairs in the...", 1854, p. 27. [3] -- adil 02:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
"The treaty of Golesta@n was naturally a great disappointment for the Persians and was bitterly opposed by officials such as Mirza@ Bozorg. Although Persia had performed reasonably well in the war prior to AÚsála@nduz and had counted heavily on Britain to protect its interests in the negotiations, it had not only had to recognize the Russian position in Georgia but give up any claim to authority over the khanates of the eastern Caucasus and make other major political and economic concessions."
Finally, we have the full text of the treaty in the original Russian available to us, and here's the precise wording of the article 3:
СТАТЬЯ ТРЕТЬЯ
Его Шахское Величество в доказательство искренней приязни Своей к Его Величеству Императору Всероссийскому, сим торжественно признает, как за себя, так и за Высоких Преемников Персидскаго престола, принадлежащими в собственность Российской Империи Ханства: Карабагское и Ганджинское, обращенное ныне в провинцию под названием Елисаветпольской. Также Ханства: Шекинское, Ширванское, Дербентское, Кубинское, Бакинское и Талышинское с теми землями сего Ханства, кои ныне состоят во власти Российской Империи. При том весь Дагестан, Грузию с Шурагельскою провинциею, Имеретию, Гурию, Мингрелию и Абхазию, равным образом все владения и земли, находящиеся между постановленною ныне границею и Кавказскою линиею, с прикосновенными к сей последней и к Каспийскому морю землями и народами. -- adil 05:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Secondly, why do you keep reverting the terms of the treaty? Also, your criticism of Iranica, one of the most reliable sources of Iranian history in the world (see this for example: [4]), is really getting ridiculous, and will get you NOWHERE. Azerbaijani 22:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
That was a mistake nevermind that. Artaxiad 22:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
"12 Oct 1813 Sovereignty ceded by Iran to Russia by Treaty of Gulistan" [5] Anyone more info? - Pieter_v ( talk) 22:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
My research seems to indicate that the map used here is incorrect, as what is now the Azerbaijan–Iran border was fixed by this treaty. The map used suggests that the Gulistan border was fixed entirely along the Aras river, with south-east Azerbaijan only added to Russia after the Treaty of Turkmenchai. WisDom-UK ( talk) 21:27, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I've created a new map of the Caucasus after the Treaty of Gulistan which is much more accurate than the currently used map. Thanks to Benyamin for helping with the borders of Talysh Khanate and how the khanate was split up after the Treaty of Gulistan. The names of cities and lakes have also been changed to align with how they were called during the said period. Here's the map — CuriousGolden (talk· contrib) 11:36, 6 September 2020 (UTC)