![]() | Toyohara Chikanobu was a Art and architecture good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
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Current status: Former good article nominee |
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It's a minor thing, I know, but I am wondering what the issue is with describing Chikanobu as an ukiyo-e artist. I have on several occasions edited the second sentence of the article to read "Like most ukiyo-e artists..." or "Like most artists in the ukiyo-e genre..." and every time, my changes have been reverted to the far vaguer "Like most artists involved in the production of ukiyo-e..."
Describing artists involved in the production of ukiyo-e as "ukiyo-e artists" is far from an uncommon or unusual practice; neither is it a Western (English-language) invention, as the word 浮世絵師 ukiyo-e-shi is a perfectly normal and commonly used term in Japanese.
Chikanobu certainly was an ukiyo-e artist, just as much as Harunobu, Kiyonaga, or Utamaro were. So why is he not being described as one? LordAmeth 23:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
These sentences convey no useful information:
/////This was a album of war scenes (triptychs) offered for sale by a gallery in the United States. In all likelihood the publisher of this album hired the aforementioned artists to create these scenes of this war and then published them in a single book. What I am attempting to point out: there were some publishers who wished to present a theme to the public; they then hired artists to create scenes around this theme. I believe this to have been a common practice during this period. I am trying to say that this is the only instance of which I know where Chikanobu was a participant; though there may have been other times, I have not been able to find them. I'm certain this album has since been purchased, and broken up, and sold as 25 individual triptychs so there cannot be any documentation. GaryD144 ( talk) 20:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
//// Newspaper publishers used woodblock cuts as colored inserts in the newspapers during this period. There were many such series, kyōdō risshiki, being just one. Again, the publisher, in this case a newspaper, hired several artists to present a particular theme. In this particular instance, Chikanobu provided two prints to this series. More scholars, far more erudite than I, are just now investigating this particular field of endeavor. I don't believe any citation is needed for this second point since copies of these prints are available for viewing on-line. What I am trying to point out is that Chikanobu was a rare participant in these publisher collation ventures. "Citation" in so faar as woodblock prints are concerned is a point that I will be happy to discuss with you, privately. Please email me. GaryD144 ( talk) 20:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
With citation support, these sentences could be restored, of course. -- Tenmei ( talk) 01:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
I removed this phrase temporarily from the main page.
As you know, this phrase was added in a short sentence which is supported by a verifiable citation.
I have re-visited each of the linked sources, and I find no explicit mention of Korean riots or the Treaty of Cemulpo. In contrast, I do find specific mention of the First Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War.
The phrase can be restored, of course; but my guess is that this is the sort of thing which needs citation support. Do you agree? -- Tenmei ( talk) 22:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
References
I should be happy to provide you with a print of the Kkorean problem of 1882 bearing Chikanobu's signature. Please advise me how to do this. GaryD144 ( talk) 19:58, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
\\\\\ Please note that I was presenting the title of the work translated into English. I believe I also noted in a letter to Dr James that this title could be read as "The Korean Uprising." If Wikipedia is going to be that P.C. as to have every entry bowlderized might someone somewhere take offense, I don't believe Wikipedia will be able to fulfill its promise. These particular triptychs (and there are several) refer to a late period of Japanese "expansion" into Korea as one of the new world powers of that period and prints relating to this particular martial period should be classed in the sensō-e genre. GaryD144 ( talk) 20:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
I believe Tenmei has written: "During the late Keio era and early Meiji period, Chikanobu created prints which illustrated the period of domestic unrest. " Documentation of this statement ("the late Keiō era") is needed, preferably in the form of a print with Chikanobu's name and a date stamp or a statement of the date in the publication box. GaryD144 ( talk) 00:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
///// To be particularly explicit, please remove the following statement from the page: "These are incomplete lists, which may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by expanding them with reliably sourced entries." You might have noticed that it is repetitive for I do state "A partial list." If you feel it is of absolute necessity in the body of the article, please make sure that everywhere else in Wikipedia that there is such a partial list, that you, personally, place this same statement. In other words, I will expect to see this same statement in the same location in the article about Utagawa Kuniyoshi with your signature attached in the history. If it is not necessary to place it in the body of the article, a footnote may be the proper place for such a statement GaryD144 ( talk) 20:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
The images galleries are somewhat larger than average; but each image in the array is justified by the context GaryD144 has created. Factors in assessing these galleries include:
My overall impression is that GaryD144's scholarly approach in developing these galleries does enhance the quality of this article. -- Tenmei ( talk) 19:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
This article is not about collections but about an artist thus moved this content here for discussion:
==Chikanobu and Yoshitoshi Woodblock Prints== The Scripps College Collection of Japanese Prints at the Ruth Chandler Williamson Gallery contains over 500 woodblock prints, many of which were created by Chikanobu. [1] [2] Originally founded through donations by two Los Angeles area families, Fred and Estelle Marer and Dr. and Mrs. William Ballard, the collection has frequently been used in the classroom. [3] In collaboration with the Claremont Colleges Digital Library, a digital collection for the woodblock prints was created to expand access to the prints for the general public. The collection, entitled Chikanobu and Yoshitoshi Woodblock Prints, has received excellent reviews from members of the anime community [4] and the Online Computer Library Center. [5] The most recent expansion of access to the collection has been through addition of certain pieces to the Claremont Colleges Digital Library’s Flickr site.
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
References
Sentence removed pending further research:
Also removed from gallery pending further research: Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905 (Nichiro sensō 日露戦争) -- Tenmei ( talk) 15:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
This article was removed from Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/ToDo. -- Tenmei ( talk) 13:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
![]() | Toyohara Chikanobu was a Art and architecture good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It's a minor thing, I know, but I am wondering what the issue is with describing Chikanobu as an ukiyo-e artist. I have on several occasions edited the second sentence of the article to read "Like most ukiyo-e artists..." or "Like most artists in the ukiyo-e genre..." and every time, my changes have been reverted to the far vaguer "Like most artists involved in the production of ukiyo-e..."
Describing artists involved in the production of ukiyo-e as "ukiyo-e artists" is far from an uncommon or unusual practice; neither is it a Western (English-language) invention, as the word 浮世絵師 ukiyo-e-shi is a perfectly normal and commonly used term in Japanese.
Chikanobu certainly was an ukiyo-e artist, just as much as Harunobu, Kiyonaga, or Utamaro were. So why is he not being described as one? LordAmeth 23:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
These sentences convey no useful information:
/////This was a album of war scenes (triptychs) offered for sale by a gallery in the United States. In all likelihood the publisher of this album hired the aforementioned artists to create these scenes of this war and then published them in a single book. What I am attempting to point out: there were some publishers who wished to present a theme to the public; they then hired artists to create scenes around this theme. I believe this to have been a common practice during this period. I am trying to say that this is the only instance of which I know where Chikanobu was a participant; though there may have been other times, I have not been able to find them. I'm certain this album has since been purchased, and broken up, and sold as 25 individual triptychs so there cannot be any documentation. GaryD144 ( talk) 20:19, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
//// Newspaper publishers used woodblock cuts as colored inserts in the newspapers during this period. There were many such series, kyōdō risshiki, being just one. Again, the publisher, in this case a newspaper, hired several artists to present a particular theme. In this particular instance, Chikanobu provided two prints to this series. More scholars, far more erudite than I, are just now investigating this particular field of endeavor. I don't believe any citation is needed for this second point since copies of these prints are available for viewing on-line. What I am trying to point out is that Chikanobu was a rare participant in these publisher collation ventures. "Citation" in so faar as woodblock prints are concerned is a point that I will be happy to discuss with you, privately. Please email me. GaryD144 ( talk) 20:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
With citation support, these sentences could be restored, of course. -- Tenmei ( talk) 01:59, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
I removed this phrase temporarily from the main page.
As you know, this phrase was added in a short sentence which is supported by a verifiable citation.
I have re-visited each of the linked sources, and I find no explicit mention of Korean riots or the Treaty of Cemulpo. In contrast, I do find specific mention of the First Sino-Japanese War and the Russo-Japanese War.
The phrase can be restored, of course; but my guess is that this is the sort of thing which needs citation support. Do you agree? -- Tenmei ( talk) 22:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
References
I should be happy to provide you with a print of the Kkorean problem of 1882 bearing Chikanobu's signature. Please advise me how to do this. GaryD144 ( talk) 19:58, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
\\\\\ Please note that I was presenting the title of the work translated into English. I believe I also noted in a letter to Dr James that this title could be read as "The Korean Uprising." If Wikipedia is going to be that P.C. as to have every entry bowlderized might someone somewhere take offense, I don't believe Wikipedia will be able to fulfill its promise. These particular triptychs (and there are several) refer to a late period of Japanese "expansion" into Korea as one of the new world powers of that period and prints relating to this particular martial period should be classed in the sensō-e genre. GaryD144 ( talk) 20:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
I believe Tenmei has written: "During the late Keio era and early Meiji period, Chikanobu created prints which illustrated the period of domestic unrest. " Documentation of this statement ("the late Keiō era") is needed, preferably in the form of a print with Chikanobu's name and a date stamp or a statement of the date in the publication box. GaryD144 ( talk) 00:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
///// To be particularly explicit, please remove the following statement from the page: "These are incomplete lists, which may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by expanding them with reliably sourced entries." You might have noticed that it is repetitive for I do state "A partial list." If you feel it is of absolute necessity in the body of the article, please make sure that everywhere else in Wikipedia that there is such a partial list, that you, personally, place this same statement. In other words, I will expect to see this same statement in the same location in the article about Utagawa Kuniyoshi with your signature attached in the history. If it is not necessary to place it in the body of the article, a footnote may be the proper place for such a statement GaryD144 ( talk) 20:28, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
The images galleries are somewhat larger than average; but each image in the array is justified by the context GaryD144 has created. Factors in assessing these galleries include:
My overall impression is that GaryD144's scholarly approach in developing these galleries does enhance the quality of this article. -- Tenmei ( talk) 19:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
This article is not about collections but about an artist thus moved this content here for discussion:
==Chikanobu and Yoshitoshi Woodblock Prints== The Scripps College Collection of Japanese Prints at the Ruth Chandler Williamson Gallery contains over 500 woodblock prints, many of which were created by Chikanobu. [1] [2] Originally founded through donations by two Los Angeles area families, Fred and Estelle Marer and Dr. and Mrs. William Ballard, the collection has frequently been used in the classroom. [3] In collaboration with the Claremont Colleges Digital Library, a digital collection for the woodblock prints was created to expand access to the prints for the general public. The collection, entitled Chikanobu and Yoshitoshi Woodblock Prints, has received excellent reviews from members of the anime community [4] and the Online Computer Library Center. [5] The most recent expansion of access to the collection has been through addition of certain pieces to the Claremont Colleges Digital Library’s Flickr site.
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 05:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
References
Sentence removed pending further research:
Also removed from gallery pending further research: Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905 (Nichiro sensō 日露戦争) -- Tenmei ( talk) 15:15, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
This article was removed from Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/ToDo. -- Tenmei ( talk) 13:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)