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Attwood's remarks and/or views on SF Fans as people with Asperger Syndrome are currently being discussed here and here. AvB ÷ talk 14:16, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the controversy section since only one source was quoted as reporting on the remark in question, while no sources were given that report on a negative response from anyone, let alone SF fans as a group. I spent some time looking for such reports myself but did not find any references. In effect, there is just one person reporting a negative response, User_talk:Davidkevin, which is not sufficient to warrant mention in a Wikipedia biography (see Neutral point of view). AvB ÷ talk 14:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Recently, User AvB requested a mediator from the Mediation Cabal, so I am here. I have read from the source that Davidkevin has provided, along with the controvery section in this article. I think that Attwood's quote has been taken out of context, and I agree with AvB that more sources are needed.
"Dr. Attwood has made comments indicating that he believes that Star Trek fans frequently exhibit personality defects indicating a likelihood of Asperger syndrome"
Comments? I only read one comment in the news article, and I believe that the quote has been taken out of context. The fact could be mentioned in the article, but not in the way Davidkevin wrote. Olorin28 13:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
All right, this is getting a bit out of hand. I am requesting a Request for Comments for this article, and I will withdraw this mediation for now.
Olorin28 01:28, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
(See commented out section in the Tony Attwood article) and RfC posted by User:Olorin28 who had come forward after my request for mediation.
AvB ÷ talk 03:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
In order to help any RfC commenters I have formatted the RfC section and added three links to this talk page (see diff). AvB ÷ talk 13:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I presume that the basis for the disputed section is a quote from an editorial by Stephen Fay in Ellsworth American, verbatim: He speculated, only half in jest, that “Star Trek conventions are secret reunions for people with Asperger’s Syndrome. Biographies of living poeple are a very sensitive issue and merit extreme prudence, see: Wikipedia:Libel. This is even more important in vew of the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy. An single indirect quote from an editorial is too little evidence for forming the basis of a remark in a bio article. The editor critisizing Attwood should make an effort to properly document Attwood's opinion about Star War fan clubs, as well as reactions to that opinion, citing several reputable sources, Andreas 15:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I have found the reputable initial source: http://www.nas.org.uk/content/1/c4/36/18/attwood2.pdf. "In a talk at the [Queen's Road Baptist Church] in [Coventry], Attwood said "Star Trek conventions are reunions for people with Asperger’s." The only way that the response currently in the article can be included is if you can attribute it to someone - IE: "Foo said that classifying Star Trek fans as a group as Asperger's sufferers may be challengable as cultural prejudice rather than medical diagnosis." citation needed Hipocrite - «Talk» 15:16, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Hipocrite may have resolved this particular controversy. When I know something from personal experience and cannot locate a supporting reference I leave a comment on the relevant article talk page. Durova 06:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Andreas, Hipocrite and Durova, thanks for taking the time to help two newbie editors out. Olorin28, thanks for mediating and starting the article RfC. A couple of weeks ago I intended to start a user conduct RfC but it doesn't seem all that important anymore. David, does this resolve your concerns about my insistence upon quotes from reputable sources? The re-addition of the Attwood remark itself is not really disputed (although discouraged by Andreas and, I think, Olorin28). A 5:1 majority is opposed to allowing the Controversy section header and your comments without quotes from one or more reputable sources. See also WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:CITE, WP:BIO, Wikipedia:Libel and the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy debacle referred to by Andreas. I will place the Controversy section on the talk page as per Durova's advice. You are invited to add it back to the article when you can provide one (preferably more) reputable sources reporting on a negative reponse from Star Trek/SF fans and possibly additional sources regarding the original Attwood remark. Finally, I am extending an invitation to start over and grow some mutual respect. I hope you will accept it - just say the word on your talk page where I'm posting this as well. Or feel free to ignore. AvB ÷ talk 00:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, try that as written. I think that's a fair reflection of where he was coming from (one sentence in a 50-page paper hardly seems to justify dismissing his entire body of work as prejudice, whicih is how it read before). As noted on the Asperger's article, there is a danger of bending over too far backwards to assist those who want to avoid self-identification - the comments Attwood made were nothing more than an illustration of a class of behaviour that would be readily visualised by a lay audience. He is not saying that everybody who attends a Star Trek convention or buys the Loco Shed Book has Asperger's, he is saying that these are the kinds of activities which are likely to see those with Asperger's, because of the Asperger's trait of obsessive interest in an activity or process over and above the people involved. I seem to recall an advert from a psychiatric clinic in the states which stated that "Klingon would be an advantage" - you can see why, among a group of fans (rail, sci-fi, birdwatchers or whatever) those with the mst obsessive interest will be the ones who will form the nucleus. I really don't see this one remark in a large public lecture as saying any more than that. And I am a railfan, as well as a collector of sci-fi books. - Just zis Guy, you a agreeknow? [T]/ [C] AfD? 10:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
This article refers to Dr Atwood as an "advocate" of the Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder. This is unsourced, and, based on my extensive familiarity with his writings, is probably an innaccurate title to give him ApplesandPears3 Applesandpears3 ( talk) 04:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
This article claims that Atwood "pushes the idea that those on the spectrum are best left isolated and cut off from society." That statement is not only unsourced but is false. Tony Atwood states in The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome, pg 32:"As a society, we need to recognize the value of having people with Aspergers Syndrome in our multi-cultural and diverse community." He has also written a paper giving about how to help children with Aspergers improve their frienship skills. [1] and another paper that both presents an extremely positive view of Aspergers and posits many strengths that persons with Aspergers may have in regards to friendships. [2] All in all, I think those few sentences about him on the Wilkipedia page need to be removed for the sake of accurace. ApplesandPears3 Applesandpears3 ( talk) 04:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
References
I removed the "Dr." from the article and was reverted. Another editor, User:Curly Turkey reverted that edit and removed the "Dr." saying using it was poor wikipedia style. An editor reverted Curly Turkey, citing WP:CREDENTIAL. But WP:CREDENTIAL says
Academic and professional titles (such as "Doctor" or "Professor") should not be used before (or after) the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name.
So I think "Dr." should be removed per WP:CREDENTIAL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parabolooidal ( talk • contribs) 22:05, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
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Is this Tony "Blake's 7 Programme Guide and awful Blake's 7 novel" Attwood? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7d:6431:c900:3866:b50a:9891:cdf2 ( talk • contribs) 17:03, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
My name is Chris park I have asbergers syndrome and a long time ago I spoke with Tony about what was up my sleeve 2601:348:4101:9B70:B470:73CF:67A4:1384 ( talk) 01:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Individuals with a conflict of interest, particularly those representing the subject of the article, are strongly advised not to directly edit the article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You may request corrections or suggest content here on the Talk page for independent editors to review, or contact us if the issue is urgent. |
This article was nominated for deletion on 19 March 2010. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
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Attwood's remarks and/or views on SF Fans as people with Asperger Syndrome are currently being discussed here and here. AvB ÷ talk 14:16, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the controversy section since only one source was quoted as reporting on the remark in question, while no sources were given that report on a negative response from anyone, let alone SF fans as a group. I spent some time looking for such reports myself but did not find any references. In effect, there is just one person reporting a negative response, User_talk:Davidkevin, which is not sufficient to warrant mention in a Wikipedia biography (see Neutral point of view). AvB ÷ talk 14:05, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Recently, User AvB requested a mediator from the Mediation Cabal, so I am here. I have read from the source that Davidkevin has provided, along with the controvery section in this article. I think that Attwood's quote has been taken out of context, and I agree with AvB that more sources are needed.
"Dr. Attwood has made comments indicating that he believes that Star Trek fans frequently exhibit personality defects indicating a likelihood of Asperger syndrome"
Comments? I only read one comment in the news article, and I believe that the quote has been taken out of context. The fact could be mentioned in the article, but not in the way Davidkevin wrote. Olorin28 13:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
All right, this is getting a bit out of hand. I am requesting a Request for Comments for this article, and I will withdraw this mediation for now.
Olorin28 01:28, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
(See commented out section in the Tony Attwood article) and RfC posted by User:Olorin28 who had come forward after my request for mediation.
AvB ÷ talk 03:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
In order to help any RfC commenters I have formatted the RfC section and added three links to this talk page (see diff). AvB ÷ talk 13:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I presume that the basis for the disputed section is a quote from an editorial by Stephen Fay in Ellsworth American, verbatim: He speculated, only half in jest, that “Star Trek conventions are secret reunions for people with Asperger’s Syndrome. Biographies of living poeple are a very sensitive issue and merit extreme prudence, see: Wikipedia:Libel. This is even more important in vew of the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy. An single indirect quote from an editorial is too little evidence for forming the basis of a remark in a bio article. The editor critisizing Attwood should make an effort to properly document Attwood's opinion about Star War fan clubs, as well as reactions to that opinion, citing several reputable sources, Andreas 15:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I have found the reputable initial source: http://www.nas.org.uk/content/1/c4/36/18/attwood2.pdf. "In a talk at the [Queen's Road Baptist Church] in [Coventry], Attwood said "Star Trek conventions are reunions for people with Asperger’s." The only way that the response currently in the article can be included is if you can attribute it to someone - IE: "Foo said that classifying Star Trek fans as a group as Asperger's sufferers may be challengable as cultural prejudice rather than medical diagnosis." citation needed Hipocrite - «Talk» 15:16, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Hipocrite may have resolved this particular controversy. When I know something from personal experience and cannot locate a supporting reference I leave a comment on the relevant article talk page. Durova 06:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Andreas, Hipocrite and Durova, thanks for taking the time to help two newbie editors out. Olorin28, thanks for mediating and starting the article RfC. A couple of weeks ago I intended to start a user conduct RfC but it doesn't seem all that important anymore. David, does this resolve your concerns about my insistence upon quotes from reputable sources? The re-addition of the Attwood remark itself is not really disputed (although discouraged by Andreas and, I think, Olorin28). A 5:1 majority is opposed to allowing the Controversy section header and your comments without quotes from one or more reputable sources. See also WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:CITE, WP:BIO, Wikipedia:Libel and the John Seigenthaler Sr. Wikipedia biography controversy debacle referred to by Andreas. I will place the Controversy section on the talk page as per Durova's advice. You are invited to add it back to the article when you can provide one (preferably more) reputable sources reporting on a negative reponse from Star Trek/SF fans and possibly additional sources regarding the original Attwood remark. Finally, I am extending an invitation to start over and grow some mutual respect. I hope you will accept it - just say the word on your talk page where I'm posting this as well. Or feel free to ignore. AvB ÷ talk 00:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, try that as written. I think that's a fair reflection of where he was coming from (one sentence in a 50-page paper hardly seems to justify dismissing his entire body of work as prejudice, whicih is how it read before). As noted on the Asperger's article, there is a danger of bending over too far backwards to assist those who want to avoid self-identification - the comments Attwood made were nothing more than an illustration of a class of behaviour that would be readily visualised by a lay audience. He is not saying that everybody who attends a Star Trek convention or buys the Loco Shed Book has Asperger's, he is saying that these are the kinds of activities which are likely to see those with Asperger's, because of the Asperger's trait of obsessive interest in an activity or process over and above the people involved. I seem to recall an advert from a psychiatric clinic in the states which stated that "Klingon would be an advantage" - you can see why, among a group of fans (rail, sci-fi, birdwatchers or whatever) those with the mst obsessive interest will be the ones who will form the nucleus. I really don't see this one remark in a large public lecture as saying any more than that. And I am a railfan, as well as a collector of sci-fi books. - Just zis Guy, you a agreeknow? [T]/ [C] AfD? 10:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
This article refers to Dr Atwood as an "advocate" of the Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder. This is unsourced, and, based on my extensive familiarity with his writings, is probably an innaccurate title to give him ApplesandPears3 Applesandpears3 ( talk) 04:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
This article claims that Atwood "pushes the idea that those on the spectrum are best left isolated and cut off from society." That statement is not only unsourced but is false. Tony Atwood states in The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome, pg 32:"As a society, we need to recognize the value of having people with Aspergers Syndrome in our multi-cultural and diverse community." He has also written a paper giving about how to help children with Aspergers improve their frienship skills. [1] and another paper that both presents an extremely positive view of Aspergers and posits many strengths that persons with Aspergers may have in regards to friendships. [2] All in all, I think those few sentences about him on the Wilkipedia page need to be removed for the sake of accurace. ApplesandPears3 Applesandpears3 ( talk) 04:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
References
I removed the "Dr." from the article and was reverted. Another editor, User:Curly Turkey reverted that edit and removed the "Dr." saying using it was poor wikipedia style. An editor reverted Curly Turkey, citing WP:CREDENTIAL. But WP:CREDENTIAL says
Academic and professional titles (such as "Doctor" or "Professor") should not be used before (or after) the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name.
So I think "Dr." should be removed per WP:CREDENTIAL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parabolooidal ( talk • contribs) 22:05, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
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Is this Tony "Blake's 7 Programme Guide and awful Blake's 7 novel" Attwood? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:c7d:6431:c900:3866:b50a:9891:cdf2 ( talk • contribs) 17:03, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
My name is Chris park I have asbergers syndrome and a long time ago I spoke with Tony about what was up my sleeve 2601:348:4101:9B70:B470:73CF:67A4:1384 ( talk) 01:40, 14 August 2022 (UTC)