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The trial to establish his inheritance began on 11 May 1871 in the Court of Common Pleas before Sir Alexander Cockburn, 12th Baronet CJ, and lasted 102 days. Orton weathered the attacks against the discrepancies in his story and his outright ignorance of many key facts Roger would have known, including how to speak French as the heir had spent most of his youth in France.[2] Over 100 people vouched for his identity as Roger—except Orton's brother who claimed otherwise. Roger Charles Doughty Tichborne ? I have in my notes, but no source. Rich Farmbrough. 17:57, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Ought to be some mention of the apparently bitter Catholic v. Protestant rivalries that surrounded this case. Drutt 22:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Is to be found at William Cavendish-Scott-Bentinck, 5th Duke of Portland.
Are there any other examples? Jackiespeel ( talk) 16:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
"The slang words titch, meaning a small person, and titchy, meaning "small" or "tiny", come from the stage name of music hall star Harry Relph, known as Little Tich, an ironic reference to the size of the Tichbourne Claimant." [Italics added.]
According to p 24 of Little Tich: Giant of the Music Hall by Mary Tich (Relph's daughter) and Richard Findlater (Elm Tree Books, London 1979) the reference was not ironic. Because of Orton's size, "Tichborne" initially became an epithet meaning fat. As a child performer, Relph (born 1867) was "unusually stout for his age," and was consequently nicknamed "Young Tichborne" and "Little Tich", adopting the latter as a permanent stage name. Once Relph had slimmed to normal proportions and attained adulthood (while still being only 4'6" tall) and while people still remembered the now-imprisoned Orton the name may temporarily have seemed ironic, but that was not its original intent. In due course, with Orton forgotten and Relph famous, "Ti[t]ch/ti[t]chy" lost their original implication and gained their current one. 87.81.230.195 ( talk) 06:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
The "Heir who disappeared" section is well-nigh impossible to follow without serious study. How about a simple summary of the relevant facts that omits superfluous details such as the ridicule of his French accent? 68.239.116.212 ( talk) 04:09, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Which ship carrying the real Roger was allegedly lost at sea with all hands while travelling from Brazil to England ? Ships have names and in the mid-nineteenth century ships did not just disappear without anyone noticing that they didn't turn up. Eregli bob ( talk) 04:37, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
OK, are we going to do something constructive about the weird section titles - such as maybe have a chat about them here - or are we just going to edit war till kingdom come? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:05, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I am new here and don't wish to engage in any contentious editing.But this piece contains several extremely misleading statements and perhaps is essentially tainted by undue bias.Most notably by the excision of all references, save a simple bibliographical notation,to"The Tichborne Claimant", the near definitive work of Douglas Woodruff,who devoted nearly fifty years of field research to the subject.
The article states under "Claimant emerges":Aside from some facial resemblance to Tichborne, he did not fit the description at all. Instead of sharp features and black hair, he had a rounded visage and light brown hair. He was also overweight and did not speak a word of French..... Lady Tichborne was desperate enough, however, to accept him as her son and sent him money to come to her.
Check the lengthy section of chronologically arranged photographs in Woodruff.The Claimant weighs in at approximately twelve pounds heavier than when Roger left England.The hair is every bit as dark as formerly.The visage was not round in his first forty years nor was it round at the end.In fact Woodruff prints,without comment. a picture of Lady Tichborne in her coffin next to a photograph of the Claimant in his.No comment is needed.The Claimant did not speak(no longer spoke?) French well but whether he spoke a word of French(a statement three times repeated in the article)depends on which witnesses one chooses to believe
" He arrived in London on Christmas Day 1866 and visited the Tichborne estates. There he met the Tichborne family solicitor Edward Hopkins and Francis J. Baigent who became his supporters.".Actually(check Woodruff and the trial record)he arrived by train and was greeted by an enthusiastic crowd of over three hundred people.Many,if not most of whom had known the undoubted Roger Tichborne.The claimant remained on visiting terms for several days and only a maximum of four ever withdrew their identifications of Roger Tichborne.He was also positively identified by Dr.Lipscombe the family physician.Lady Tichborne knew all this when she made her identification.
"After Lady Tichborne's acceptance..." Couldn't be more wrong and Woodruff's been available since 1956.This entire article is in need of factual revision.I suspect the hand of John Godl is in this. Neil Hayman ( talk) 22:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
The article needs work to bring it up to standard, and I shall be busy with it over the next few weeks. During that period the article may at times seem somewhat lopsided and incomplete; images may disappear for a while and there may be other signs of work in progress. When complete I hope the article will be both comprehensive and neutral, faithfully representing the sources whether or not they support a particular view of the case. As a gesture of intent I have begun by expanding the lead, although this may change quite a bit when the main text is complete. The "Under construction" banner should stay in place while the work proceeds. Brianboulton ( talk) 23:01, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
There's a pub in Sussex near Loxwood named after this case. The Sir Roger Tichborne has a pub sign with Roger T's face on one side and Arthur Orton's on the other. Their web site says established in 1873. Worth including?
http://www.thetichborne.co.uk/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.113.48.17 ( talk) 09:52, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't see any problem with having this in the article. Proxima Centauri ( talk) 11:22, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
This article states that Henry Tichborne died in a shipwreck in 1854, but Tichborne baronetcy lists a date of death of 1845. One of the dates is a typo. Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:27, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Will mention file The National Archives file MEPO 3/2458 - Theresa ALEXANDER alias TICHBORNE, daughter of claimant to Tichborne estates: scurrilous letters. Jackiespeel ( talk) 17:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
I have just completed reading The Sydney Assassins, a 1964 book that links two murders on the Parramatta River in Sydney in 1872 with the Tichbourne Claimant trial. I am going to hopefully find some time to throw together a stub on the case but would be interested to hear if anyone else knows of the case and its possible link to the Tichbourne case. -- Roisterer ( talk) 07:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
In August 2013 a considerable amount of material – 1600 words of text, together with a large influx of directly quoted material – was added to the article, without any discussion. I am sure that this was a good faith attempt to improve the article's quality. However, none of this new material has been subject to any review, or consideration in the context of the article as a whole. After a rapid survey I have identified several concerns:
These are the more obvious issues – a fuller reading of the revised text may reveal others. Because this is a featured article and has to conform to the standards set by the FA criteria, I am inviting the editors who participated in the FA review in May 2012 to look at the new material. Hopefully they will indicate whether it should substantially stay, or whether it should be summarised to conform with the summary style of the rest of the article. Brianboulton ( talk) 20:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to Finetooth and Wehwalt for commenting here. Other FAC reviewers who may drop by can assume that the matter has now been resolved. Brianboulton ( talk) 10:09, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I've just uploaded a historic photograph of Orton that may be of use to this article: See File:Arthur Orton 1873.jpg. Cheers! --Animalparty-- ( talk) 20:18, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Any objections to throwing this article into the pile of potential TFA reruns for next year (in August or November)? Any cleanup needed? If it helps, here's a list of dead or dubious links. - Dank ( push to talk) 23:09, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
A somewhat minor point, but is it "Titch-born" or "Tie-born"? -- Muzilon ( talk) 05:35, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
Mark Hodder's Steampunk novel The Curious Case of the Clockwork-Man includes the Tichborne case and characters as a central part of its storyline.
I was considering adding the above to the See Also section. Popular references can bloat an article but that does not seem to be the case here, as this would only be the third reference. I am at lunch and do not want to edit an article when I can't take my time and do it right, so I will probably do this sometime over the weekend, if I hear no objections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomcoach ( talk • contribs) 17:34, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Editors keeping an eye on this article may like to see the exchange above (sorry about this hamfisted link, but I can't get an internal anchor to work). I'm not wild about the proposal, but others may think differently. Perhaps comments could go here rather than way up the page? Easier for others to find, possibly. Tim riley talk 14:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add the recently released novel 'The Fraud' by Zadie Smith to the list of publications regarding this case.
Details Imprint: Hamish Hamilton
Published: 07/09/2023 ISBN: 9780241336991 Length: 464 pages
[1] 82.4.189.190 ( talk) 12:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Thomas Castro has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 28 § Thomas Castro until a consensus is reached.
Dennis C. Abrams (
talk)
14:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Tichborne case is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on June 1, 2013. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on February 28, 2013, February 28, 2014, February 28, 2016, February 28, 2020, February 28, 2021, and February 28, 2024. | ||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The trial to establish his inheritance began on 11 May 1871 in the Court of Common Pleas before Sir Alexander Cockburn, 12th Baronet CJ, and lasted 102 days. Orton weathered the attacks against the discrepancies in his story and his outright ignorance of many key facts Roger would have known, including how to speak French as the heir had spent most of his youth in France.[2] Over 100 people vouched for his identity as Roger—except Orton's brother who claimed otherwise. Roger Charles Doughty Tichborne ? I have in my notes, but no source. Rich Farmbrough. 17:57, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Ought to be some mention of the apparently bitter Catholic v. Protestant rivalries that surrounded this case. Drutt 22:19, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Is to be found at William Cavendish-Scott-Bentinck, 5th Duke of Portland.
Are there any other examples? Jackiespeel ( talk) 16:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
"The slang words titch, meaning a small person, and titchy, meaning "small" or "tiny", come from the stage name of music hall star Harry Relph, known as Little Tich, an ironic reference to the size of the Tichbourne Claimant." [Italics added.]
According to p 24 of Little Tich: Giant of the Music Hall by Mary Tich (Relph's daughter) and Richard Findlater (Elm Tree Books, London 1979) the reference was not ironic. Because of Orton's size, "Tichborne" initially became an epithet meaning fat. As a child performer, Relph (born 1867) was "unusually stout for his age," and was consequently nicknamed "Young Tichborne" and "Little Tich", adopting the latter as a permanent stage name. Once Relph had slimmed to normal proportions and attained adulthood (while still being only 4'6" tall) and while people still remembered the now-imprisoned Orton the name may temporarily have seemed ironic, but that was not its original intent. In due course, with Orton forgotten and Relph famous, "Ti[t]ch/ti[t]chy" lost their original implication and gained their current one. 87.81.230.195 ( talk) 06:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
The "Heir who disappeared" section is well-nigh impossible to follow without serious study. How about a simple summary of the relevant facts that omits superfluous details such as the ridicule of his French accent? 68.239.116.212 ( talk) 04:09, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Which ship carrying the real Roger was allegedly lost at sea with all hands while travelling from Brazil to England ? Ships have names and in the mid-nineteenth century ships did not just disappear without anyone noticing that they didn't turn up. Eregli bob ( talk) 04:37, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
OK, are we going to do something constructive about the weird section titles - such as maybe have a chat about them here - or are we just going to edit war till kingdom come? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:05, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
I am new here and don't wish to engage in any contentious editing.But this piece contains several extremely misleading statements and perhaps is essentially tainted by undue bias.Most notably by the excision of all references, save a simple bibliographical notation,to"The Tichborne Claimant", the near definitive work of Douglas Woodruff,who devoted nearly fifty years of field research to the subject.
The article states under "Claimant emerges":Aside from some facial resemblance to Tichborne, he did not fit the description at all. Instead of sharp features and black hair, he had a rounded visage and light brown hair. He was also overweight and did not speak a word of French..... Lady Tichborne was desperate enough, however, to accept him as her son and sent him money to come to her.
Check the lengthy section of chronologically arranged photographs in Woodruff.The Claimant weighs in at approximately twelve pounds heavier than when Roger left England.The hair is every bit as dark as formerly.The visage was not round in his first forty years nor was it round at the end.In fact Woodruff prints,without comment. a picture of Lady Tichborne in her coffin next to a photograph of the Claimant in his.No comment is needed.The Claimant did not speak(no longer spoke?) French well but whether he spoke a word of French(a statement three times repeated in the article)depends on which witnesses one chooses to believe
" He arrived in London on Christmas Day 1866 and visited the Tichborne estates. There he met the Tichborne family solicitor Edward Hopkins and Francis J. Baigent who became his supporters.".Actually(check Woodruff and the trial record)he arrived by train and was greeted by an enthusiastic crowd of over three hundred people.Many,if not most of whom had known the undoubted Roger Tichborne.The claimant remained on visiting terms for several days and only a maximum of four ever withdrew their identifications of Roger Tichborne.He was also positively identified by Dr.Lipscombe the family physician.Lady Tichborne knew all this when she made her identification.
"After Lady Tichborne's acceptance..." Couldn't be more wrong and Woodruff's been available since 1956.This entire article is in need of factual revision.I suspect the hand of John Godl is in this. Neil Hayman ( talk) 22:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
The article needs work to bring it up to standard, and I shall be busy with it over the next few weeks. During that period the article may at times seem somewhat lopsided and incomplete; images may disappear for a while and there may be other signs of work in progress. When complete I hope the article will be both comprehensive and neutral, faithfully representing the sources whether or not they support a particular view of the case. As a gesture of intent I have begun by expanding the lead, although this may change quite a bit when the main text is complete. The "Under construction" banner should stay in place while the work proceeds. Brianboulton ( talk) 23:01, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
There's a pub in Sussex near Loxwood named after this case. The Sir Roger Tichborne has a pub sign with Roger T's face on one side and Arthur Orton's on the other. Their web site says established in 1873. Worth including?
http://www.thetichborne.co.uk/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.113.48.17 ( talk) 09:52, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't see any problem with having this in the article. Proxima Centauri ( talk) 11:22, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
This article states that Henry Tichborne died in a shipwreck in 1854, but Tichborne baronetcy lists a date of death of 1845. One of the dates is a typo. Robert McClenon ( talk) 22:27, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Will mention file The National Archives file MEPO 3/2458 - Theresa ALEXANDER alias TICHBORNE, daughter of claimant to Tichborne estates: scurrilous letters. Jackiespeel ( talk) 17:25, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
I have just completed reading The Sydney Assassins, a 1964 book that links two murders on the Parramatta River in Sydney in 1872 with the Tichbourne Claimant trial. I am going to hopefully find some time to throw together a stub on the case but would be interested to hear if anyone else knows of the case and its possible link to the Tichbourne case. -- Roisterer ( talk) 07:39, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
In August 2013 a considerable amount of material – 1600 words of text, together with a large influx of directly quoted material – was added to the article, without any discussion. I am sure that this was a good faith attempt to improve the article's quality. However, none of this new material has been subject to any review, or consideration in the context of the article as a whole. After a rapid survey I have identified several concerns:
These are the more obvious issues – a fuller reading of the revised text may reveal others. Because this is a featured article and has to conform to the standards set by the FA criteria, I am inviting the editors who participated in the FA review in May 2012 to look at the new material. Hopefully they will indicate whether it should substantially stay, or whether it should be summarised to conform with the summary style of the rest of the article. Brianboulton ( talk) 20:23, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to Finetooth and Wehwalt for commenting here. Other FAC reviewers who may drop by can assume that the matter has now been resolved. Brianboulton ( talk) 10:09, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I've just uploaded a historic photograph of Orton that may be of use to this article: See File:Arthur Orton 1873.jpg. Cheers! --Animalparty-- ( talk) 20:18, 16 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Tichborne case. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Any objections to throwing this article into the pile of potential TFA reruns for next year (in August or November)? Any cleanup needed? If it helps, here's a list of dead or dubious links. - Dank ( push to talk) 23:09, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
A somewhat minor point, but is it "Titch-born" or "Tie-born"? -- Muzilon ( talk) 05:35, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
Mark Hodder's Steampunk novel The Curious Case of the Clockwork-Man includes the Tichborne case and characters as a central part of its storyline.
I was considering adding the above to the See Also section. Popular references can bloat an article but that does not seem to be the case here, as this would only be the third reference. I am at lunch and do not want to edit an article when I can't take my time and do it right, so I will probably do this sometime over the weekend, if I hear no objections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomcoach ( talk • contribs) 17:34, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Editors keeping an eye on this article may like to see the exchange above (sorry about this hamfisted link, but I can't get an internal anchor to work). I'm not wild about the proposal, but others may think differently. Perhaps comments could go here rather than way up the page? Easier for others to find, possibly. Tim riley talk 14:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please add the recently released novel 'The Fraud' by Zadie Smith to the list of publications regarding this case.
Details Imprint: Hamish Hamilton
Published: 07/09/2023 ISBN: 9780241336991 Length: 464 pages
[1] 82.4.189.190 ( talk) 12:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Thomas Castro has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 28 § Thomas Castro until a consensus is reached.
Dennis C. Abrams (
talk)
14:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)