This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Third gender article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 September 2022 and 10 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Delendaaest ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Delendaaest ( talk) 20:32, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
The introduction paragraph has the sentence "The [third gender] concept is most likely to be embraced in the modern LGBT or queer subcultures," which is situated between sentences about broader western culture and scholarship. There is no citation for this sentence and I haven't found any sources confirming this personally. Is this connection primarily to nonbinary/genderqueer identity instead of third gender? If so, the wording of the sentence as-is could be more specific, or it may be better to delete this entirely. - Delendaaest ( talk) 19:39, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
non-binary or genderqueer identities, so this is presumably was meant. Newimpartial ( talk) 19:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Delendaaest: Nice job on this new section. The Towle & Morgan (2002) GLQ article you found is a good one; I found this quote that might be representative of part of it: "The term third gender does not disrupt gender binarism; it simply adds another category (albeit a segregated, ghettoized category) to the existing two.". (There's a |quote=
parameter in the {{
Cite journal}} template that you could use to store the quote, if excerpting the quote in the new section doesn't seem to work.) For other users editing in this space, that source would be a good one for other, related articles; it is available in full text via TWL. Haven't had a chance to look at the your other source, yet, but good job so far. By the way: if you find other good sources, but don't need them to source specific content you add, feel free to add a citation for it to the
§ Further reading section, where interested editors might pick it up and use it.
Mathglot (
talk) 20:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
This is a slightly strange section in terms of organisation. There are instances of modern countries with legal recognition that have been included under this section. E.g. England - but using terms which are no longer used by people nowadays. Surely these and similar examples should be moved down under the History section. Following on from this, it seems a bit strange to divide up countries with and without legal recognition (the contents of each are actually quite different - with the former mostly describing legal precedents, while the latter describes actual identities found in these places)...Just seems a bit inconsistent to me. Or should the description of different identities from countries where it is legal be included into History? Thanks PitterPatter533 ( talk) 17:07, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Māhū
In both the third paragraph of the lead section and the second paragraph of Third gender#Transgender people and third gender, the māhū are referred to with the quote "person of indeterminate gender" attributed to a 13 year old article [1] written by an author who is neither from Polynesia nor an expert on the region or third genders in Tate Etc., an arts magazine run by the Tate Britain Museum. This source is marked as better source needed, this quote is not present in the source article, and the claim being made is not supported by reliable sources nor the Māhū main article.
The quote should be removed, and the reliable sources listed in the Māhū main article
[2]
[3] should be used to attest to the Māhū existing as a third gender. These sources both refer to the Māhū not as being of indeterminate gender, but as having a
liminal gender, a common term used in anthropological literature on the Māhū
[4]
[5] given the literal translation of "in the middle".
Anthroqueer (
talk) 02:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Holland.blu ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Pangilinanh.
— Assignment last updated by Momlife5 ( talk) 15:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dochoa14 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: 240Daryl.
— Assignment last updated by Bbalicia ( talk) 00:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Third gender article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 September 2022 and 10 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Delendaaest ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Delendaaest ( talk) 20:32, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
The introduction paragraph has the sentence "The [third gender] concept is most likely to be embraced in the modern LGBT or queer subcultures," which is situated between sentences about broader western culture and scholarship. There is no citation for this sentence and I haven't found any sources confirming this personally. Is this connection primarily to nonbinary/genderqueer identity instead of third gender? If so, the wording of the sentence as-is could be more specific, or it may be better to delete this entirely. - Delendaaest ( talk) 19:39, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
non-binary or genderqueer identities, so this is presumably was meant. Newimpartial ( talk) 19:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Delendaaest: Nice job on this new section. The Towle & Morgan (2002) GLQ article you found is a good one; I found this quote that might be representative of part of it: "The term third gender does not disrupt gender binarism; it simply adds another category (albeit a segregated, ghettoized category) to the existing two.". (There's a |quote=
parameter in the {{
Cite journal}} template that you could use to store the quote, if excerpting the quote in the new section doesn't seem to work.) For other users editing in this space, that source would be a good one for other, related articles; it is available in full text via TWL. Haven't had a chance to look at the your other source, yet, but good job so far. By the way: if you find other good sources, but don't need them to source specific content you add, feel free to add a citation for it to the
§ Further reading section, where interested editors might pick it up and use it.
Mathglot (
talk) 20:34, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
This is a slightly strange section in terms of organisation. There are instances of modern countries with legal recognition that have been included under this section. E.g. England - but using terms which are no longer used by people nowadays. Surely these and similar examples should be moved down under the History section. Following on from this, it seems a bit strange to divide up countries with and without legal recognition (the contents of each are actually quite different - with the former mostly describing legal precedents, while the latter describes actual identities found in these places)...Just seems a bit inconsistent to me. Or should the description of different identities from countries where it is legal be included into History? Thanks PitterPatter533 ( talk) 17:07, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
Māhū
In both the third paragraph of the lead section and the second paragraph of Third gender#Transgender people and third gender, the māhū are referred to with the quote "person of indeterminate gender" attributed to a 13 year old article [1] written by an author who is neither from Polynesia nor an expert on the region or third genders in Tate Etc., an arts magazine run by the Tate Britain Museum. This source is marked as better source needed, this quote is not present in the source article, and the claim being made is not supported by reliable sources nor the Māhū main article.
The quote should be removed, and the reliable sources listed in the Māhū main article
[2]
[3] should be used to attest to the Māhū existing as a third gender. These sources both refer to the Māhū not as being of indeterminate gender, but as having a
liminal gender, a common term used in anthropological literature on the Māhū
[4]
[5] given the literal translation of "in the middle".
Anthroqueer (
talk) 02:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Holland.blu ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Pangilinanh.
— Assignment last updated by Momlife5 ( talk) 15:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dochoa14 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: 240Daryl.
— Assignment last updated by Bbalicia ( talk) 00:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)