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The cast timeline continues to be edited and the roles for S12 added in. We know Frankel has departed the cast and McSweeney has joined the cast, but the cast's official roles are not announced until the season's promotional material comes out, like the trailer. I don't think S12 should be included in the timeline until the announcement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.18.70.29 ( talk) 19:35, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Obviously, some intern is editing this article. Too much marketing language. I will try to edit soon...but thought I would comment on the obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.24.45 ( talk) 05:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC) Totes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.90.79.214 ( talk) 19:56, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
In the March 18th 2009 episode someone mentioned Simon as owning the hotel he works in. Is this true?
According to this article. He does not. http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/2009/3/18/101312/987/hotels/Who_Owns_Hotel_Chandler_Not_Simon_van_Kempen
I have just edited the entry for Simon Van Kempen to correct a couple of "errors". It referred to him as "Simon Cowel" and called him a "tool". My correction needs correcting as I did not have the name of the hotel where he worked, nor his title, available when I edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.4.230 ( talk) 20:23, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The school of general studies of part of Columbia University. I don't know why this article says that it is not. www.gs.columbia.edu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.15.208.241 ( talk) 01:12, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
What on earth does permanent fixture in the hamptons mean? Sagg Main is a permanent picture, does anyone care to explain how Ms. Zarin is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.63.143 ( talk) 01:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I have a feeling these ladies wrote their own bios. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.105.245 ( talk) 02:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Much of the text seems to have been lifted from Bravo's website. 38.115.185.13 ( talk) 22:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)LNelson
I removed the information on where Zarin's daughter will be attending college. This info is only of value to stalkers and does not belong in this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.241.245 ( talk) 20:10, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
i removed the merchandise section for several reasons, including the fact that Jill Zarin's merchandise was the only item listed yet all of the cast members are selling various items, those items are listed already on their own sites. This is not a site to advertise and sell items. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4rousseau ( talk • contribs) 20:11, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
there are several sections that have been removed. some stories from Huffington Post and other MSM. some of the behavior may be covered in the tv series however,that does not mean it cannot be covered by news outlets and WP in advance of the airing of the new season. it appears the bios have been cleaned up and Bethenny Frankel among other bios are being written as marketing tools which is against policy. this page and the Frankel page need to be monitored.
I don't think that we really need a blow by blow episode list, do we ?
But if we do, can we have more than just one episode ? -- Beardo ( talk) 22:48, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
It seems to have been taken from http://www.bravotv.com/Real_Housewives_NYC/season/1/episodes/101/index.php - is it different enough to avoid copyvio ? -- Beardo ( talk) 23:34, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Aviva Drescher did not appear in the season 6 episode 'The Last Splash' and was removed from the opening sequence, her tagline and image. This should be noted in her bio part. Most media outlets are reporting she will be back but will be absent for at least 3 episodes!
I topo note to that to Zhyboo ( talk) 13:15, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
I took note to that to, it was confusing Zhyboo ( talk) 13:16, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Anyone that has watched the show would barely recognize the women from these descriptions. None of their negative qualities are discussed. Imagine an article about Britney Spears that solely talked about her record sales without describing her tumultuous personal life. For instance, it is extremely ironic that the "Countess" LuAnn de Lesseps is writing a book about etiquette since she is constantly blunt, rude, petty, and tactless on the show. We get none of that from this article. SubtleGuest ( talk) 02:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)SubtleGuest
Don't read it then...the show is superficial too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.102.73.138 ( talk) 20:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Please note that there is no "Algonquin tribe" in Connecticut. If a person claims "Algonquin" ancestry, it is akin to a person claiming "European" ancestry, or "African" ancestry. "Algonquin" is an umbrella term and not a "tribe". If Ms. de Lesseps wants to claim she is of Algonquin descent, fine. But it is not a "tribe". She needs to do more research into her ancestry and learn exactly which tribe she descended from. She could be Pequot, Mohegan, or any of the others listed here: http://www.native-languages.org/connecticut.htm
The article has been edited to reflect that LuAnn de Lesseps is of French and Algonquin descent, using her official website as a reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Audrey7272 ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be a great deal of "drive by" IP edits, that are either vandalism, original research, or adding unreferenced controversial(and possibly libelous statements). I was just curious what other people thought about this. Wacko Jack O 08:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe a good idea. I see Kelly's section has been edited in that way. Hilarious but definitely not neutral and probably dubious. 98.113.199.242 ( talk) 15:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I am trying my best to bring neutrality to this article. Please don't protect it to the point that it limits my access to bringing updated information to this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Audrey7272 ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
ramona singer lies about her age.she claims to be 52, she has to be at least 55, as she claims she has been married 18 years, and was alone until she was 37. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.147.158 ( talk) 01:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Why is she listed in past housewives? She was in the running, and shot a segment for the opening, but was never officially added to the roster. I think a lot of people will have trouble remembering who she even was. She should be taken off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.62.162 ( talk) 21:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Jennifer Gilbert also appeared in Season 5 of RHONY. She helped Heather with her fashion show at the season finale so I think a 'Guest' status should be put in for her for Season 5, like most of the other Real Housewives shows have done, example like Faye or Dana from Beverly Hills, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Housewives_of_Beverly_Hills#Housewives_history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.14.130.145 ( talk) 19:08, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
The above is not true. Jennifer Gilbert never appeared in RHONY season 5. There is no footage of her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.19.51.227 ( talk) 15:21, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Jennifer should probably be included in the timeline, as she did in fact have a "recurring" role...featured in several episodes, had her own talking-head interviews, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.76.86 ( talk) 23:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
And she had her own casting photo taken for the third season, so she was a major recurring cast member Zhyboo ( talk) 20:47, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
This is true and is featured in both episodes 17 & 18 of Season 5. As a credited cast member, she should have 'guest' status here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Millzipede ( talk • contribs) 07:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
[1]. She clearly states and is visible to have appeared as a guest here.
The requirement for a reference for every 'guest' appearance would require a review of not only the RHONY page but the wider Real Housewives pages which would be totally unnecessary if there is clear evidence to support an appearance without a verified article or statement by Bravo support this. For example, Dorinda appears in S4 in a brief background appearance, uncredited but visibly on screen with no reference attached to support it. Whether this feature would be classified as a 'Cameo' or a 'Guest' is an entirely separate discussion but should still be credited in the table as such due to her visible appearance on the show. An example where a 'guest' appearance would not be acceptable would be Kelly Bensimon in S9 where despite being in attendance of LuAnn's wedding she is never shown on screen. Despite there being numerous publications and sources crediting that Kelly was there, as she was never showcased on-screen a 'Cameo' or 'Guest appearance would not be applicable.
The Don't Need To Cite That The Sky Is Blue article outlines that "Sometimes editors will insist on citations for material simply because they dislike it or prefer some other material, not because the material in any way needs verification." and that Sense can be used in wikipedia articles if a credited source is unnecessary and logic can be applied. Millzipede ( talk) 11:51, 22 June 2020 (GMT)
References
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/27/technology/social-media-bots.html
Devumi also sells bots to reality television stars, who can parlay fame into endorsement and appearance fees. Sonja Morgan, a cast member on the Bravo show “The Real Housewives of New York City,” uses her Devumi-boosted Twitter feed to promote her fashion line, a shopping app and a website that sells personalized “video shout-outs.” One former “American Idol” contestant, Clay Aiken, even paid Devumi to spread a grievance: his customer service complaint against Volvo. Devumi bots retweeted his complaint 5,000 times.
Mr. Aiken and Ms. Morgan did not respond to requests for comment.
Xardox ( talk) 18:01, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Bethenny goes after Luann in infobox because De Lesseps goes before Frankel. Another user argues that since in French, only Lesseps is considered the last name that Luann should be listed after Bethenny. I feel as if since the article is written in American English, this calls for a discussion. Feel free to chime in! KyleJoan talk 23:52, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Dispute: The French "de" used in the context of a proper name is "of" and is NOT considered a part of the proper surname "Lesseps" in the matter of alphabetizing. The page may be written in English, but the fact will always remain that Lesseps is the proper surname, French or English being equal or irrelevant, and should be alphabetized as such instead of by the PREPOSITION "de" meaning "of". Also, the "de" is not capitalized which also has a bearing on alphabetical order of a name. "If the prefix consists of an article or of a contraction of an article and a preposition, enter under the prefix: - La Bruyere, Rene - Des Granges, Charles-Marc Otherwise, enter under the part of the name following the preposition": - Musset, Alfred de - La Fontaine, Jean de. Reference: https://www.bookcrossing.com/forum/12/360742 AnAudLife ( talk) 00:59, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Another reference; https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/07/nobiliary-particle.html "“In the names of Frenchmen and -women, de and d’ are almost always lowercased; treatment of du varies. La and Le are almost always capitalized. In alphabetized lists, names are alphabetized under their first capitalized element." AnAudLife ( talk) 01:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
And another definitive reference: Merriam-Webster's Manual for Writers and Editors, "In French and Belgium surnames, the preposition de is usually ignored in alphabetization, while the article la usually is not. Lesseps, Ferdinand de and La Tour, Georges de." https://books.google.com/books?id=7C6V9zRxSPkC&pg=PA261&lpg=PA261&dq=alphabetizing+de+lesseps&source=bl&ots=3nu3WCYuLe&sig=ACfU3U2Pe5NoYmSrFOxa0KwUOiGU2y5xkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsp4DjxJLjAhUwq1kKHX7EB30Q6AEwEXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=alphabetizing%20de%20lesseps&f=false AnAudLife ( talk) 01:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Due to the above preponderance of evidence in support of my revisions to the alpabetizing of the last name Lesseps and in light of said conclusions I believe a permanent change should be made to the list without further dispute and I have just made said change. AnAudLife ( talk) 02:52, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
See third opinion below. KyleJoan talk 07:38, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
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While it's not an absolute rule, it seems to me that the simplest solution is to use the English Wikipedia editing guideline at WP:MCSTJR, which suggests that for names of American people (but not those who are actually French), we follow alphabetical order including the de prefix. In particular, the page Luann de Lesseps has been consistently alphabetised in WP category listings under the 'd' since at least 2017 (see this page, for example), which seems enough of a precedent to me. Anaxial ( talk) 07:28, 26 August 2019 (UTC) |
Since it is her former husband's family name, and he is French, we alphabetize at L. We don't alphabetize the wife differently from the husband. This doesn't change because she got divorced, and Wikipedia isn't 'the encyclopedia of today' anyway. Note that prefixes and particles remain part of the surname regardless of how we alphabetize. Almond Plate ( talk) 15:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Should Luann de Lesseps, an American woman with a French surname, be alphabetized as de Lesseps, Luann or Lesseps, Luann de? KyleJoan talk 23:59, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
American, Australian, Canadian, and English names generally sort on the prefix, regardless of capitalization, so according to American conventions would be de Lesseps, Luann. KyleJoan talk 10:28, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Americanin the quote as the names of Americans. Otherwise, what would constitute an American name? Other interpretations could include names of North American or Native American origin or names that are considered common in America. I say all of the above. In that sense, the guideline outlining the alphabetization of
American, Australian, Canadian, and English namesapply, correct? The discussion is to determine which of the two holds priority: the origin of one's name or the naming system under which one falls. KyleJoan talk 22:06, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Should Luann de Lesseps, an American woman with a French surname, be alphabetized as de Lesseps, Luann or Lesseps, Luann de?I've repeatedly stated that I believe nationality plays a factor because it distinguishes the naming conventions one falls under. Agree or disagree, that is relevant to the question. If you're only interested in discussing French names being indexed as such without wanting to hear other views with regard to other factors, then feel free to start that discussion. Thanks! KyleJoan talk 01:04, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Hobby programmer's view: This is about sorting names. Why on earth would this task depend on the nationality of the person having the name? ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 22:39, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Names with particles or prefixes are a complex field and there are exceptions and inconsistencies. Examples of particles are al, dall, de, della, di, dos, du, el, la, o, and von. Whether or not to include the particle in sorting can be up to the individual's personal preference, traditional cultural usage or the customs of one's nationality.Let's examine the three categories mentioned.
American, Australian, Canadian, and English names generally sort on the prefix, regardless of capitalization. However, there are discrepancies between different sources on whether to sort on the prefix or not.
American, Australian, Canadian, and English namescan be interpreted as names of nationals of those countries. After all, the same section in the article also states:
Whether or not to include the particle in sorting can be up to the individual's personal preference, traditional cultural usage or the customs of one's nationality.KyleJoan talk 07:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
So User:KyleJoan, you have been warned for edit warring and still reverted the page to your version. Stubborn much? No need to mention who are returning cast members as they didn't leave the last season aired to begin with. That's like mentioning Jeff Probst is returning for another season of Survivor in the article of Survivor or mentioning Ellen Pompeo is returning for another season of Grey's Anatomy in the article of Grey's Anatomy, when both people didn't leave their respective shows. Only changes to the main cast should be mentioned. The current cast members are already mentioned in the opening section and there's a timeline for the cast members as well. Also stop with your passive aggressiveness by thanking my edits, when you've been reverted or warned. TheHotwiki ( talk) 19:38, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
The current cast members are already mentioned in the opening section and there's a timeline for the cast members as well. However, I'm reinstating the oxford comma before McSweeney's name and the conjunction between de Lesseps and Singer's names in the lede and rephrasing the description of Radziwill's departure in the overview and casting section for grammatical purposes. I'm also putting back the three citations you removed because the information regarding the returning cast for the twelth season in the lede and in the cast table would be unsourced without said citations, and you know what they say about unsourced information. If that's still considered disruptive, you know where to go. Cheers! KyleJoan talk 02:29, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
@ KyleJoan: Consider this your formal warning for edit warring. You've now reverted my edit 3 times. If you do it again, I will report you for edit warring and it may be your final block since you have 6-7 blocks for edit warring already. AnAudLife ( talk) 06:22, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
'''Sonja Tremont Adams Morgan''' (born November 25, 1963) is an American television personality, fashion designer, and entrepreneur. Morgan is most notable for appearing on [[Bravo (U.S. TV network)|Bravo]] reality television series [[The Real Housewives of New York City]]. Morgan has starred in the series since the middle of the third season. She was previously married to [[John Adams Morgan]], whose father was the co-founder of [[Morgan Stanley]] and great-grandfather was [[J.P. Morgan]], who founded J.P Morgan & Co. Morgan started a fashion line called Sonja by Sonja Morgan<ref>{{cite web |url=https://sonjabysonjamorgan.com/}}</ref> in 2015.
Jerod Lycett ( talk) 04:38, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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[2] Nothing in that link stated she joined the cast as an official friend of the housewives. TheHotwiki ( talk) 02:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Can an admin block user KingPags1201 from editing, they are spam editing all the Housewives pages with unconfirmed information that has no source(s). -- Yankeesman312 ( talk) 21:20, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:
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The cast timeline continues to be edited and the roles for S12 added in. We know Frankel has departed the cast and McSweeney has joined the cast, but the cast's official roles are not announced until the season's promotional material comes out, like the trailer. I don't think S12 should be included in the timeline until the announcement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.18.70.29 ( talk) 19:35, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
Obviously, some intern is editing this article. Too much marketing language. I will try to edit soon...but thought I would comment on the obvious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.24.45 ( talk) 05:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC) Totes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.90.79.214 ( talk) 19:56, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
In the March 18th 2009 episode someone mentioned Simon as owning the hotel he works in. Is this true?
According to this article. He does not. http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/2009/3/18/101312/987/hotels/Who_Owns_Hotel_Chandler_Not_Simon_van_Kempen
I have just edited the entry for Simon Van Kempen to correct a couple of "errors". It referred to him as "Simon Cowel" and called him a "tool". My correction needs correcting as I did not have the name of the hotel where he worked, nor his title, available when I edited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.4.230 ( talk) 20:23, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
The school of general studies of part of Columbia University. I don't know why this article says that it is not. www.gs.columbia.edu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.15.208.241 ( talk) 01:12, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
What on earth does permanent fixture in the hamptons mean? Sagg Main is a permanent picture, does anyone care to explain how Ms. Zarin is? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.63.143 ( talk) 01:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I have a feeling these ladies wrote their own bios. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.105.245 ( talk) 02:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Much of the text seems to have been lifted from Bravo's website. 38.115.185.13 ( talk) 22:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)LNelson
I removed the information on where Zarin's daughter will be attending college. This info is only of value to stalkers and does not belong in this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.141.241.245 ( talk) 20:10, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
i removed the merchandise section for several reasons, including the fact that Jill Zarin's merchandise was the only item listed yet all of the cast members are selling various items, those items are listed already on their own sites. This is not a site to advertise and sell items. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4rousseau ( talk • contribs) 20:11, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
there are several sections that have been removed. some stories from Huffington Post and other MSM. some of the behavior may be covered in the tv series however,that does not mean it cannot be covered by news outlets and WP in advance of the airing of the new season. it appears the bios have been cleaned up and Bethenny Frankel among other bios are being written as marketing tools which is against policy. this page and the Frankel page need to be monitored.
I don't think that we really need a blow by blow episode list, do we ?
But if we do, can we have more than just one episode ? -- Beardo ( talk) 22:48, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
It seems to have been taken from http://www.bravotv.com/Real_Housewives_NYC/season/1/episodes/101/index.php - is it different enough to avoid copyvio ? -- Beardo ( talk) 23:34, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Aviva Drescher did not appear in the season 6 episode 'The Last Splash' and was removed from the opening sequence, her tagline and image. This should be noted in her bio part. Most media outlets are reporting she will be back but will be absent for at least 3 episodes!
I topo note to that to Zhyboo ( talk) 13:15, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
I took note to that to, it was confusing Zhyboo ( talk) 13:16, 9 October 2016 (UTC)
Anyone that has watched the show would barely recognize the women from these descriptions. None of their negative qualities are discussed. Imagine an article about Britney Spears that solely talked about her record sales without describing her tumultuous personal life. For instance, it is extremely ironic that the "Countess" LuAnn de Lesseps is writing a book about etiquette since she is constantly blunt, rude, petty, and tactless on the show. We get none of that from this article. SubtleGuest ( talk) 02:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)SubtleGuest
Don't read it then...the show is superficial too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.102.73.138 ( talk) 20:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Please note that there is no "Algonquin tribe" in Connecticut. If a person claims "Algonquin" ancestry, it is akin to a person claiming "European" ancestry, or "African" ancestry. "Algonquin" is an umbrella term and not a "tribe". If Ms. de Lesseps wants to claim she is of Algonquin descent, fine. But it is not a "tribe". She needs to do more research into her ancestry and learn exactly which tribe she descended from. She could be Pequot, Mohegan, or any of the others listed here: http://www.native-languages.org/connecticut.htm
The article has been edited to reflect that LuAnn de Lesseps is of French and Algonquin descent, using her official website as a reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Audrey7272 ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be a great deal of "drive by" IP edits, that are either vandalism, original research, or adding unreferenced controversial(and possibly libelous statements). I was just curious what other people thought about this. Wacko Jack O 08:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Maybe a good idea. I see Kelly's section has been edited in that way. Hilarious but definitely not neutral and probably dubious. 98.113.199.242 ( talk) 15:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
I am trying my best to bring neutrality to this article. Please don't protect it to the point that it limits my access to bringing updated information to this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Audrey7272 ( talk • contribs) 22:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
ramona singer lies about her age.she claims to be 52, she has to be at least 55, as she claims she has been married 18 years, and was alone until she was 37. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.147.158 ( talk) 01:44, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
Why is she listed in past housewives? She was in the running, and shot a segment for the opening, but was never officially added to the roster. I think a lot of people will have trouble remembering who she even was. She should be taken off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.247.62.162 ( talk) 21:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Jennifer Gilbert also appeared in Season 5 of RHONY. She helped Heather with her fashion show at the season finale so I think a 'Guest' status should be put in for her for Season 5, like most of the other Real Housewives shows have done, example like Faye or Dana from Beverly Hills, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Real_Housewives_of_Beverly_Hills#Housewives_history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.14.130.145 ( talk) 19:08, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
The above is not true. Jennifer Gilbert never appeared in RHONY season 5. There is no footage of her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.19.51.227 ( talk) 15:21, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Jennifer should probably be included in the timeline, as she did in fact have a "recurring" role...featured in several episodes, had her own talking-head interviews, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.57.76.86 ( talk) 23:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
And she had her own casting photo taken for the third season, so she was a major recurring cast member Zhyboo ( talk) 20:47, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
This is true and is featured in both episodes 17 & 18 of Season 5. As a credited cast member, she should have 'guest' status here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Millzipede ( talk • contribs) 07:59, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
[1]. She clearly states and is visible to have appeared as a guest here.
The requirement for a reference for every 'guest' appearance would require a review of not only the RHONY page but the wider Real Housewives pages which would be totally unnecessary if there is clear evidence to support an appearance without a verified article or statement by Bravo support this. For example, Dorinda appears in S4 in a brief background appearance, uncredited but visibly on screen with no reference attached to support it. Whether this feature would be classified as a 'Cameo' or a 'Guest' is an entirely separate discussion but should still be credited in the table as such due to her visible appearance on the show. An example where a 'guest' appearance would not be acceptable would be Kelly Bensimon in S9 where despite being in attendance of LuAnn's wedding she is never shown on screen. Despite there being numerous publications and sources crediting that Kelly was there, as she was never showcased on-screen a 'Cameo' or 'Guest appearance would not be applicable.
The Don't Need To Cite That The Sky Is Blue article outlines that "Sometimes editors will insist on citations for material simply because they dislike it or prefer some other material, not because the material in any way needs verification." and that Sense can be used in wikipedia articles if a credited source is unnecessary and logic can be applied. Millzipede ( talk) 11:51, 22 June 2020 (GMT)
References
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/27/technology/social-media-bots.html
Devumi also sells bots to reality television stars, who can parlay fame into endorsement and appearance fees. Sonja Morgan, a cast member on the Bravo show “The Real Housewives of New York City,” uses her Devumi-boosted Twitter feed to promote her fashion line, a shopping app and a website that sells personalized “video shout-outs.” One former “American Idol” contestant, Clay Aiken, even paid Devumi to spread a grievance: his customer service complaint against Volvo. Devumi bots retweeted his complaint 5,000 times.
Mr. Aiken and Ms. Morgan did not respond to requests for comment.
Xardox ( talk) 18:01, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
Bethenny goes after Luann in infobox because De Lesseps goes before Frankel. Another user argues that since in French, only Lesseps is considered the last name that Luann should be listed after Bethenny. I feel as if since the article is written in American English, this calls for a discussion. Feel free to chime in! KyleJoan talk 23:52, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Dispute: The French "de" used in the context of a proper name is "of" and is NOT considered a part of the proper surname "Lesseps" in the matter of alphabetizing. The page may be written in English, but the fact will always remain that Lesseps is the proper surname, French or English being equal or irrelevant, and should be alphabetized as such instead of by the PREPOSITION "de" meaning "of". Also, the "de" is not capitalized which also has a bearing on alphabetical order of a name. "If the prefix consists of an article or of a contraction of an article and a preposition, enter under the prefix: - La Bruyere, Rene - Des Granges, Charles-Marc Otherwise, enter under the part of the name following the preposition": - Musset, Alfred de - La Fontaine, Jean de. Reference: https://www.bookcrossing.com/forum/12/360742 AnAudLife ( talk) 00:59, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Another reference; https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/07/nobiliary-particle.html "“In the names of Frenchmen and -women, de and d’ are almost always lowercased; treatment of du varies. La and Le are almost always capitalized. In alphabetized lists, names are alphabetized under their first capitalized element." AnAudLife ( talk) 01:17, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
And another definitive reference: Merriam-Webster's Manual for Writers and Editors, "In French and Belgium surnames, the preposition de is usually ignored in alphabetization, while the article la usually is not. Lesseps, Ferdinand de and La Tour, Georges de." https://books.google.com/books?id=7C6V9zRxSPkC&pg=PA261&lpg=PA261&dq=alphabetizing+de+lesseps&source=bl&ots=3nu3WCYuLe&sig=ACfU3U2Pe5NoYmSrFOxa0KwUOiGU2y5xkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsp4DjxJLjAhUwq1kKHX7EB30Q6AEwEXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=alphabetizing%20de%20lesseps&f=false AnAudLife ( talk) 01:27, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
Due to the above preponderance of evidence in support of my revisions to the alpabetizing of the last name Lesseps and in light of said conclusions I believe a permanent change should be made to the list without further dispute and I have just made said change. AnAudLife ( talk) 02:52, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
See third opinion below. KyleJoan talk 07:38, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
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While it's not an absolute rule, it seems to me that the simplest solution is to use the English Wikipedia editing guideline at WP:MCSTJR, which suggests that for names of American people (but not those who are actually French), we follow alphabetical order including the de prefix. In particular, the page Luann de Lesseps has been consistently alphabetised in WP category listings under the 'd' since at least 2017 (see this page, for example), which seems enough of a precedent to me. Anaxial ( talk) 07:28, 26 August 2019 (UTC) |
Since it is her former husband's family name, and he is French, we alphabetize at L. We don't alphabetize the wife differently from the husband. This doesn't change because she got divorced, and Wikipedia isn't 'the encyclopedia of today' anyway. Note that prefixes and particles remain part of the surname regardless of how we alphabetize. Almond Plate ( talk) 15:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Should Luann de Lesseps, an American woman with a French surname, be alphabetized as de Lesseps, Luann or Lesseps, Luann de? KyleJoan talk 23:59, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
American, Australian, Canadian, and English names generally sort on the prefix, regardless of capitalization, so according to American conventions would be de Lesseps, Luann. KyleJoan talk 10:28, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Americanin the quote as the names of Americans. Otherwise, what would constitute an American name? Other interpretations could include names of North American or Native American origin or names that are considered common in America. I say all of the above. In that sense, the guideline outlining the alphabetization of
American, Australian, Canadian, and English namesapply, correct? The discussion is to determine which of the two holds priority: the origin of one's name or the naming system under which one falls. KyleJoan talk 22:06, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
Should Luann de Lesseps, an American woman with a French surname, be alphabetized as de Lesseps, Luann or Lesseps, Luann de?I've repeatedly stated that I believe nationality plays a factor because it distinguishes the naming conventions one falls under. Agree or disagree, that is relevant to the question. If you're only interested in discussing French names being indexed as such without wanting to hear other views with regard to other factors, then feel free to start that discussion. Thanks! KyleJoan talk 01:04, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Hobby programmer's view: This is about sorting names. Why on earth would this task depend on the nationality of the person having the name? ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 22:39, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
Names with particles or prefixes are a complex field and there are exceptions and inconsistencies. Examples of particles are al, dall, de, della, di, dos, du, el, la, o, and von. Whether or not to include the particle in sorting can be up to the individual's personal preference, traditional cultural usage or the customs of one's nationality.Let's examine the three categories mentioned.
American, Australian, Canadian, and English names generally sort on the prefix, regardless of capitalization. However, there are discrepancies between different sources on whether to sort on the prefix or not.
American, Australian, Canadian, and English namescan be interpreted as names of nationals of those countries. After all, the same section in the article also states:
Whether or not to include the particle in sorting can be up to the individual's personal preference, traditional cultural usage or the customs of one's nationality.KyleJoan talk 07:13, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
So User:KyleJoan, you have been warned for edit warring and still reverted the page to your version. Stubborn much? No need to mention who are returning cast members as they didn't leave the last season aired to begin with. That's like mentioning Jeff Probst is returning for another season of Survivor in the article of Survivor or mentioning Ellen Pompeo is returning for another season of Grey's Anatomy in the article of Grey's Anatomy, when both people didn't leave their respective shows. Only changes to the main cast should be mentioned. The current cast members are already mentioned in the opening section and there's a timeline for the cast members as well. Also stop with your passive aggressiveness by thanking my edits, when you've been reverted or warned. TheHotwiki ( talk) 19:38, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
The current cast members are already mentioned in the opening section and there's a timeline for the cast members as well. However, I'm reinstating the oxford comma before McSweeney's name and the conjunction between de Lesseps and Singer's names in the lede and rephrasing the description of Radziwill's departure in the overview and casting section for grammatical purposes. I'm also putting back the three citations you removed because the information regarding the returning cast for the twelth season in the lede and in the cast table would be unsourced without said citations, and you know what they say about unsourced information. If that's still considered disruptive, you know where to go. Cheers! KyleJoan talk 02:29, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
@ KyleJoan: Consider this your formal warning for edit warring. You've now reverted my edit 3 times. If you do it again, I will report you for edit warring and it may be your final block since you have 6-7 blocks for edit warring already. AnAudLife ( talk) 06:22, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
'''Sonja Tremont Adams Morgan''' (born November 25, 1963) is an American television personality, fashion designer, and entrepreneur. Morgan is most notable for appearing on [[Bravo (U.S. TV network)|Bravo]] reality television series [[The Real Housewives of New York City]]. Morgan has starred in the series since the middle of the third season. She was previously married to [[John Adams Morgan]], whose father was the co-founder of [[Morgan Stanley]] and great-grandfather was [[J.P. Morgan]], who founded J.P Morgan & Co. Morgan started a fashion line called Sonja by Sonja Morgan<ref>{{cite web |url=https://sonjabysonjamorgan.com/}}</ref> in 2015.
Jerod Lycett ( talk) 04:38, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 17:40, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
[2] Nothing in that link stated she joined the cast as an official friend of the housewives. TheHotwiki ( talk) 02:48, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Can an admin block user KingPags1201 from editing, they are spam editing all the Housewives pages with unconfirmed information that has no source(s). -- Yankeesman312 ( talk) 21:20, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:37, 16 April 2022 (UTC)