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In the first paragraph, it mentions that royalty of Chaos can traverse the Logrus and then walk thru Shadow. This is incorrect. They were unable to walk thru Shadow until the black road was created. I therefore removed that sentence. Imrational ( talk) 06:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)imrational
I removed the mention that " Mercedes Lackey" wrote a song inspired by Amber because I googled it and could not find any info and I don't think it is important enough to mention it in the first short paragraph even so. JohnRussell 04:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC) If someone knows anything about it and can cite it please add it back in later in the article with a link. JohnRussell 04:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I recall that Zelazny started the series as an experiment--that is, he decided, "I'll have a character wake up with amnesia and go from there," and then made up the story as he went along. Does anyone know if that's true? And if so, can you find a source, and does it warrant mentioning in the article? Fumblebruschi 20:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe this to be the correct order for the short stories. [1] JohnRussell 20:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
What about Roger Zelazny's wonderful audio recordings of him reading the books with sound effects, where would be a good place for that? JohnRussell 22:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I just added info about the comic adaptations made by Terry Bisson. JohnRussell 18:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Great expansion of the article, Indy! It may need a bit of editing for NPOV in a couple of places, and certainly needs some wikification (eg, more links), but a vast improvement over the stubby article that was there. Since I've some time, I think I'll go put in a few hyperlinks right now. -- Logotu 18:29, 2004 Apr 3 (UTC) (PS: Most people don't sign actual articles, though as far as I know there is no rules against it)
Did Zelanzy say that his work was inspired by Phillip Farmer's World of Tiers series? The first novel in that series is only five years before. ChrisG 23:28, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
"In the first paragraph, it mentions that royalty of Chaos can traverse the Logrus and then walk thru Shadow. This is incorrect. They were unable to walk thru Shadow until the black road was created." According to whom? So far as I am aware, Zelazny wrote no such thing. The Characters in the Corwin Arc obviously knew the Courts existed, and there were some suggestions they might not have been able to walk *all the way* to the Courts before the Black Road, and it likewise seems likely those of Chaos could not walk *all the way* to Amber before the Road came into being. Given the nature of Chaos, and how easily one can walk from one shadow there to another (per Merlin's own comments), the quoted statement seems ludicrous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 18:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
When I was reading the Amber series, I always had the impression that the Courts of Chaos were really more orderly than Amber; the interactions of the families seem to be regulated by many customs etc while the Amberites are just a big bunch of anarchists. I am not sure this was a false impression on my part - it's been a while. -- Nils 12:56, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Back in the late 1980s, some other (non-Zelazny) author created a book based in the world of Amber where a non-Amberite needs to find a way of shifting through shadow (they have to sell their soul to do so, as I recall). It was one of those books that was a self-contained role-playing came, using a combination of choose-you-own-adventure style and using dice to go through combat in the book.
I think the book was named "The long black road" or "The long road". I may even have it somewhere at my dad's house. Anyway, if anyone knows anything more about this book, it would be worth listing. And, no, IMHO, it wasn't as god as the Zelazny books. Samboy 05:11, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why is a non-Amber work mentioned? If there's a connection, I think it should be explained. — JerryFriedman 00:19, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I concur - what is its relevance to the Amber series? Lokicarbis 07:20, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)
It's been a very long time since I read either, but I recall there were pretty explicit "hat tips" in Amber to World of Tiers, such as the character Dworkin Barimen and the Horn of Shamimbarimen (amazing what the mind retains). adamrice 04:59, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The article contradicts what memory I have of the series as it pertains to the Logrus and its abilities.
In the Corwin series, the inhabitants of Chaos found it much more difficult to move through Shadow than those of Order, and when they could move through it, they were unable to bring others along with them--hence the need for the Black Road. Otherwise they could have moved armies across at any time they liked, yet obviously they never did, since every Amberite short of Oberon and Dworkin was surprised at the mere existence of something on the other side of Shadow.
In the Merlin series, it was established that the Logrus was the Chaos equivalent of the Pattern, and those who had 'negotiated' it were able to pull things to themselves through the worlds of Shadow, as Merlin does numerous times. "Walking Shadow" was apparently possible for anyone born of Chaos, without the prerequisite of negotiating the Logrus.
Am I wrong in this bit of memory? If so, feel free to edit or erase this post.
As a further irony, the Logrus was made of ever-shifting right angles and straight lines, whereas the Pattern was a series of whorls and arcs, lacking any straight lines whatsoever. Usually Chaos is represented or viewed as non-linear, whereas things linear are viewed as being Orderly. This inversion is as amusing to me as the Chaos family being peaceful and the Order (Amber) family being a bunch of backstabbing plotters.
I think templates such as {{ Amber}} and {{ AmberCharacters}} would be nice for navigation.
You can see {{ Ender}} at Ender's Game series and {{ EnderCharacters}} at Ender Wiggin.
I cleaned it up a bit, however I am unclear about a few details, mainly how many copies of the Logri there are throughout shadowland. Sethie 23:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I've done an edit on this section having just re-read the second Amber series. There are no echoes of the Logrus mentioned in the books so I've removed that comment, as well as editted for readability. -- Markeer 21:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks- it's been years! Sethie 05:19, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Chronicles of Amber ROCKS
I happened to discover an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos released by a company known as Audio USA. No website is available nor can I seem to Google them. But I have the unabridged none the less. The Audio Copyright is listed as 2002. Perhaps we can get this added into the audiobooks section, and also see if we can hunt down the other unabridged books. Dragonranger 14:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I as well have "stumbled" upon an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos--though it was through a downloadable torrent source, rather than purchased (I'd buy it if I could find it... but kinda hard to find...). It's read by Roger Zelazny. -- EndrilRM 22:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Wasn't there also a video game made from Nine Princes in Amber? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darth Borehd ( talk • contribs) 03:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
Ha! Yes there was. The copy I had was for the commodore 64 on 5-1/4" floppies. Not sure if it was available on other platforms or not though. If I remember correctly, it was mostly text based (like Zork), but there were some simple sprite-like graphics involved for some parts. (essaying the pattern was similiar to one of those sliding-peice puzzles). Cadmunky 00:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
edit: found it Cadmunky 00:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
{{spoiler}}
Wasn't this "contradication" being taken care of when we learned (in Chaos and Amber) there WAS a Pattern ("beta" version) before begin of Dawn of Amber ? -- Hkmaly 15:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I have not read those books, but if you believe so then "Be Bold" Wikipedia:Be_bold_in_updating_pages and change it. I would be careful how you change it though if it is a plot spoiler. If so, please read up on Wikipedia:Spoiler warning JohnRussell 04:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I've added the picture back in and put up a fair use rational; however, if someone could get the omnibus volume and justify it, it would probably be better. Adam McCormick 01:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
There has been a dispute as to which version of the two cycle descriptions should be used, before we get into an edit war about it, I'd like to get wider input. The two versions are here and here and the disputed sections are "The Corwin Cycle" and "The Merlin Cycle." I'm hoping we can debate this and come to a consensus. Adam McCormick ( talk) 03:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Neither The Logrus nor The Pattern is sufficiently independently notable to justify its own article. As such, these two articles should be merged here. Neelix ( talk) 15:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
The queen of Rebma is named Moire, not Moiré,* and she is not the subject of the article on moiré patterns or any of the other articles referred to by the disambiguation page. Similarly, while Tir-na Nog'th is an obvious allusion to Tír na nÓg, Zelazny doesn't use the fada.* Removing the acute accents and the link to "moiré pattern", and inserting the hyphen.
* Both names appear on p. 54 of Nine Princes in Amber in The Great Book of Amber: The Complete Amber Chronicles, 1-10. HarperCollins, 1999. ISBN 9780380809066.
-- Thnidu ( talk) 18:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Advance apologies, but I have no idea how to go about using these links in Wikipedia. If anyone can help, please do.
The references cite two Betancourt postings to the now-defunct bulletin boards at bb.bbboy.net. Using the wayback machine, I was able to track them down. The first appears to be the third one down at http://web.archive.org/web/20060614114102/http://bb.bbboy.net/shadowsofamber-viewthread?forum=15&thread=40&postnum=40. The second appears to be the one at top of page at http://web.archive.org/web/20070927160441/http://bb.bbboy.net/shadowsofamber-viewthread?forum=15&thread=40&postnum=67. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StevenCSimmons ( talk • contribs) 19:47, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I've re-organized and tightened this section, making it focus more clearly on just the follow-on series rather than rambling into other topics. This meant removing the reference to other Amber items which were authorized by Zelazny. The 'controversy' on whether or not he would have wanted other books written is the series might be better if moved to a subsection.
An awful lot of what I tightened included phrasing line 'some fans' and other vague references. I do recall such controversy, but have not got any references to it. In particular, the description of it as 'fan fiction' should either be properly referenced, or removed/weakened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StevenCSimmons ( talk • contribs) 21:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
It's worth noting (but I don't have a formal cite, and thus am not placing in the page) that the nine princes were based on real people that Zelazny knew from the Baltimore/Johns Hopkins science fiction scene. A friend of mine had "corwin" as a physics tutor in the mid-1980s, he died shortly after. The pattern was based on a room with a cool pattern on the floor; I think it might have been an air conditioning equipment room. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.37.159 ( talk) 17:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I believe you've got some issues here. As I recall, the Stair is on Kolvir's eastern (seaward) side, the exact opposite of how your article presently describes it. I believe that the stair is described as being on the mountain's "eastern" face in Nine Princes in Amber, and in the Merlin story arc, Merlin and Coral descend the stairs to arrive on the beach and explore some sea caves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 21:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC) To prove the point, text from Nine Princes in Amber describing Corwin's assault up the mountain: "We were about two-thirds of the way up by then, and the stair zigged and zagged its way back and forth across the face of Kolvir. The eastern stair is seldom used." The stair IS on the EASTERN side of the mountain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 18:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Your description of the stories are full of spoilers. At the minimum, you should warn readers of this; preferably, the text should be re-written to remove the worst offenders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 21:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I have edited the sections on Geography, Trumps, Reflections of Amber, and the Pattern and Logrus. I removed spoilers, irrelevancies, and many errors and misstatements, as well as adding information. I suggest, as did a previous commenter here, that you completely delete the synopsizes of the individual books -- they do little besides spoil surprises for the reader, and I note earlier versions of this page did not describe the plots of the novels. Future editors to the page should take greater care in what they give away!
No one else seems to be "talking" here. Looking at Wiki's page " Manual of Style/Writing about fiction," the existing synopsizes of the individual books are "in-universe" summaries, full of plot spoilers. Wiki instead wants "real-world" descriptions, not what it calls "in-universe" text. Spoilers are not to be provided unless an "encyclopedic purpose" is being served. Wiki provides no definition of the "encyclopedic purpose," but common sense suggests the entries are much longer than is typical for a work of fiction. If nobody else chimes in here, I'm just going to delete the existing book summaries, which will basically return that portion of the page to an earlier version. If I do so, I will also look at editing my previous changes to a "real-world" perspective. I assume someone is monitoring this page, so please discuss if you're going to.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 22:11, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Per the discussion at Talk:The Pattern (The Chronicles of Amber)#Notability, I don't believe those two topics have stand-alone notility, but there is some content that could be merged here (literary analysis, etc.). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
In the first paragraph, it mentions that royalty of Chaos can traverse the Logrus and then walk thru Shadow. This is incorrect. They were unable to walk thru Shadow until the black road was created. I therefore removed that sentence. Imrational ( talk) 06:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)imrational
I removed the mention that " Mercedes Lackey" wrote a song inspired by Amber because I googled it and could not find any info and I don't think it is important enough to mention it in the first short paragraph even so. JohnRussell 04:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC) If someone knows anything about it and can cite it please add it back in later in the article with a link. JohnRussell 04:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I recall that Zelazny started the series as an experiment--that is, he decided, "I'll have a character wake up with amnesia and go from there," and then made up the story as he went along. Does anyone know if that's true? And if so, can you find a source, and does it warrant mentioning in the article? Fumblebruschi 20:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I believe this to be the correct order for the short stories. [1] JohnRussell 20:58, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
What about Roger Zelazny's wonderful audio recordings of him reading the books with sound effects, where would be a good place for that? JohnRussell 22:25, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I just added info about the comic adaptations made by Terry Bisson. JohnRussell 18:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Great expansion of the article, Indy! It may need a bit of editing for NPOV in a couple of places, and certainly needs some wikification (eg, more links), but a vast improvement over the stubby article that was there. Since I've some time, I think I'll go put in a few hyperlinks right now. -- Logotu 18:29, 2004 Apr 3 (UTC) (PS: Most people don't sign actual articles, though as far as I know there is no rules against it)
Did Zelanzy say that his work was inspired by Phillip Farmer's World of Tiers series? The first novel in that series is only five years before. ChrisG 23:28, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
"In the first paragraph, it mentions that royalty of Chaos can traverse the Logrus and then walk thru Shadow. This is incorrect. They were unable to walk thru Shadow until the black road was created." According to whom? So far as I am aware, Zelazny wrote no such thing. The Characters in the Corwin Arc obviously knew the Courts existed, and there were some suggestions they might not have been able to walk *all the way* to the Courts before the Black Road, and it likewise seems likely those of Chaos could not walk *all the way* to Amber before the Road came into being. Given the nature of Chaos, and how easily one can walk from one shadow there to another (per Merlin's own comments), the quoted statement seems ludicrous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 18:23, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
When I was reading the Amber series, I always had the impression that the Courts of Chaos were really more orderly than Amber; the interactions of the families seem to be regulated by many customs etc while the Amberites are just a big bunch of anarchists. I am not sure this was a false impression on my part - it's been a while. -- Nils 12:56, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Back in the late 1980s, some other (non-Zelazny) author created a book based in the world of Amber where a non-Amberite needs to find a way of shifting through shadow (they have to sell their soul to do so, as I recall). It was one of those books that was a self-contained role-playing came, using a combination of choose-you-own-adventure style and using dice to go through combat in the book.
I think the book was named "The long black road" or "The long road". I may even have it somewhere at my dad's house. Anyway, if anyone knows anything more about this book, it would be worth listing. And, no, IMHO, it wasn't as god as the Zelazny books. Samboy 05:11, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why is a non-Amber work mentioned? If there's a connection, I think it should be explained. — JerryFriedman 00:19, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I concur - what is its relevance to the Amber series? Lokicarbis 07:20, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)
It's been a very long time since I read either, but I recall there were pretty explicit "hat tips" in Amber to World of Tiers, such as the character Dworkin Barimen and the Horn of Shamimbarimen (amazing what the mind retains). adamrice 04:59, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The article contradicts what memory I have of the series as it pertains to the Logrus and its abilities.
In the Corwin series, the inhabitants of Chaos found it much more difficult to move through Shadow than those of Order, and when they could move through it, they were unable to bring others along with them--hence the need for the Black Road. Otherwise they could have moved armies across at any time they liked, yet obviously they never did, since every Amberite short of Oberon and Dworkin was surprised at the mere existence of something on the other side of Shadow.
In the Merlin series, it was established that the Logrus was the Chaos equivalent of the Pattern, and those who had 'negotiated' it were able to pull things to themselves through the worlds of Shadow, as Merlin does numerous times. "Walking Shadow" was apparently possible for anyone born of Chaos, without the prerequisite of negotiating the Logrus.
Am I wrong in this bit of memory? If so, feel free to edit or erase this post.
As a further irony, the Logrus was made of ever-shifting right angles and straight lines, whereas the Pattern was a series of whorls and arcs, lacking any straight lines whatsoever. Usually Chaos is represented or viewed as non-linear, whereas things linear are viewed as being Orderly. This inversion is as amusing to me as the Chaos family being peaceful and the Order (Amber) family being a bunch of backstabbing plotters.
I think templates such as {{ Amber}} and {{ AmberCharacters}} would be nice for navigation.
You can see {{ Ender}} at Ender's Game series and {{ EnderCharacters}} at Ender Wiggin.
I cleaned it up a bit, however I am unclear about a few details, mainly how many copies of the Logri there are throughout shadowland. Sethie 23:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I've done an edit on this section having just re-read the second Amber series. There are no echoes of the Logrus mentioned in the books so I've removed that comment, as well as editted for readability. -- Markeer 21:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks- it's been years! Sethie 05:19, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Chronicles of Amber ROCKS
I happened to discover an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos released by a company known as Audio USA. No website is available nor can I seem to Google them. But I have the unabridged none the less. The Audio Copyright is listed as 2002. Perhaps we can get this added into the audiobooks section, and also see if we can hunt down the other unabridged books. Dragonranger 14:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
I as well have "stumbled" upon an unabridged version of Sign of Chaos--though it was through a downloadable torrent source, rather than purchased (I'd buy it if I could find it... but kinda hard to find...). It's read by Roger Zelazny. -- EndrilRM 22:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Wasn't there also a video game made from Nine Princes in Amber? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darth Borehd ( talk • contribs) 03:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
Ha! Yes there was. The copy I had was for the commodore 64 on 5-1/4" floppies. Not sure if it was available on other platforms or not though. If I remember correctly, it was mostly text based (like Zork), but there were some simple sprite-like graphics involved for some parts. (essaying the pattern was similiar to one of those sliding-peice puzzles). Cadmunky 00:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
edit: found it Cadmunky 00:25, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
{{spoiler}}
Wasn't this "contradication" being taken care of when we learned (in Chaos and Amber) there WAS a Pattern ("beta" version) before begin of Dawn of Amber ? -- Hkmaly 15:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I have not read those books, but if you believe so then "Be Bold" Wikipedia:Be_bold_in_updating_pages and change it. I would be careful how you change it though if it is a plot spoiler. If so, please read up on Wikipedia:Spoiler warning JohnRussell 04:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I've added the picture back in and put up a fair use rational; however, if someone could get the omnibus volume and justify it, it would probably be better. Adam McCormick 01:21, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
There has been a dispute as to which version of the two cycle descriptions should be used, before we get into an edit war about it, I'd like to get wider input. The two versions are here and here and the disputed sections are "The Corwin Cycle" and "The Merlin Cycle." I'm hoping we can debate this and come to a consensus. Adam McCormick ( talk) 03:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Neither The Logrus nor The Pattern is sufficiently independently notable to justify its own article. As such, these two articles should be merged here. Neelix ( talk) 15:29, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
The queen of Rebma is named Moire, not Moiré,* and she is not the subject of the article on moiré patterns or any of the other articles referred to by the disambiguation page. Similarly, while Tir-na Nog'th is an obvious allusion to Tír na nÓg, Zelazny doesn't use the fada.* Removing the acute accents and the link to "moiré pattern", and inserting the hyphen.
* Both names appear on p. 54 of Nine Princes in Amber in The Great Book of Amber: The Complete Amber Chronicles, 1-10. HarperCollins, 1999. ISBN 9780380809066.
-- Thnidu ( talk) 18:33, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Advance apologies, but I have no idea how to go about using these links in Wikipedia. If anyone can help, please do.
The references cite two Betancourt postings to the now-defunct bulletin boards at bb.bbboy.net. Using the wayback machine, I was able to track them down. The first appears to be the third one down at http://web.archive.org/web/20060614114102/http://bb.bbboy.net/shadowsofamber-viewthread?forum=15&thread=40&postnum=40. The second appears to be the one at top of page at http://web.archive.org/web/20070927160441/http://bb.bbboy.net/shadowsofamber-viewthread?forum=15&thread=40&postnum=67. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StevenCSimmons ( talk • contribs) 19:47, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
I've re-organized and tightened this section, making it focus more clearly on just the follow-on series rather than rambling into other topics. This meant removing the reference to other Amber items which were authorized by Zelazny. The 'controversy' on whether or not he would have wanted other books written is the series might be better if moved to a subsection.
An awful lot of what I tightened included phrasing line 'some fans' and other vague references. I do recall such controversy, but have not got any references to it. In particular, the description of it as 'fan fiction' should either be properly referenced, or removed/weakened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by StevenCSimmons ( talk • contribs) 21:10, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
It's worth noting (but I don't have a formal cite, and thus am not placing in the page) that the nine princes were based on real people that Zelazny knew from the Baltimore/Johns Hopkins science fiction scene. A friend of mine had "corwin" as a physics tutor in the mid-1980s, he died shortly after. The pattern was based on a room with a cool pattern on the floor; I think it might have been an air conditioning equipment room. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.37.159 ( talk) 17:45, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
I believe you've got some issues here. As I recall, the Stair is on Kolvir's eastern (seaward) side, the exact opposite of how your article presently describes it. I believe that the stair is described as being on the mountain's "eastern" face in Nine Princes in Amber, and in the Merlin story arc, Merlin and Coral descend the stairs to arrive on the beach and explore some sea caves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 21:50, 26 January 2015 (UTC) To prove the point, text from Nine Princes in Amber describing Corwin's assault up the mountain: "We were about two-thirds of the way up by then, and the stair zigged and zagged its way back and forth across the face of Kolvir. The eastern stair is seldom used." The stair IS on the EASTERN side of the mountain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 18:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Your description of the stories are full of spoilers. At the minimum, you should warn readers of this; preferably, the text should be re-written to remove the worst offenders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 21:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I have edited the sections on Geography, Trumps, Reflections of Amber, and the Pattern and Logrus. I removed spoilers, irrelevancies, and many errors and misstatements, as well as adding information. I suggest, as did a previous commenter here, that you completely delete the synopsizes of the individual books -- they do little besides spoil surprises for the reader, and I note earlier versions of this page did not describe the plots of the novels. Future editors to the page should take greater care in what they give away!
No one else seems to be "talking" here. Looking at Wiki's page " Manual of Style/Writing about fiction," the existing synopsizes of the individual books are "in-universe" summaries, full of plot spoilers. Wiki instead wants "real-world" descriptions, not what it calls "in-universe" text. Spoilers are not to be provided unless an "encyclopedic purpose" is being served. Wiki provides no definition of the "encyclopedic purpose," but common sense suggests the entries are much longer than is typical for a work of fiction. If nobody else chimes in here, I'm just going to delete the existing book summaries, which will basically return that portion of the page to an earlier version. If I do so, I will also look at editing my previous changes to a "real-world" perspective. I assume someone is monitoring this page, so please discuss if you're going to.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.9.172.164 ( talk) 22:11, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Per the discussion at Talk:The Pattern (The Chronicles of Amber)#Notability, I don't believe those two topics have stand-alone notility, but there is some content that could be merged here (literary analysis, etc.). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)