This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I reverted the wording 'He is considered by most to be one of the best poets of his generation' to 'He is considered by some ... ' as this seems less POV-based. Certainly his repute has generally been high, but it seems to me the 'poets of his generation' are such a numerous and varied bunch, comprising practitioners of a number of different styles, that most might not be quite accurate in this context. Perhaps 'Considered by many ' is a good compromise. Any thoughts? — Stumps 12:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I was wondering if sylvia's children were placed in the room of her house when she committed suicide,or moved to the ted hughes' lover's house ,prior to her suicide I was wondering if Sylvia Plath has any living grandchildren. dinopup
Before Plath killed herself, she put her children--toddler Frieda and infant Nick--in beds in an upstairs bedroom. She left a glass of milk on a table by Frieda's bed. She left the window slightly open. Evidently she took some thought to protect them from any gas that might seep upstairs. She closed the kitchen doors and placed towels along the bottom of the doors before turning on the gas. Also, a babysitter had been scheduled to arrive shortly after this, so Plath must have thought the children would be discovered very quickly and would be safe. In fact, some biographers have suggested that Plath was merely play-acting at suicide, had thought she'd be found in time, and that a brush with death would bring Hughes back to her. However, there was a mixup in communication and the baby sitter did not arrive as scheduled. The children (unharmed) were found later, and of course Plath was dead by then. A. Alvarez has detailed Plath's suicide (and state of mind leading up to it) in The Savage God, his book about suicide. Inspite of her mental state, Plath unmistakably did what she could to protect her children. This is in contrast to the even more tragic case of Assia Wevill, Ted Hughes' mistress, who murdered both her child and herself a few years later. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
This isn't a poem. Skinnyweed 18:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
for the person who edited my editing- thank you!
(that's a non-cinicel thank you), i needed editting. as you can see i re-editted my own writing myself as well- you were very kind with me and some of the things that could have been dropped out remained. so i was harsh on myself and took them out.
thank you that was very nice
maya (jumping_maya@yahoo.com)
Hughes' relationship with Plath is so celebrated and controversial that I think we should say more in this page. I am writing a small section on it and would appreciate comments and reviews of it when done - I don't intend to take a rigid position or "fall into the Plath or Hughes camp" as so many do, but to reflect recent more measured opinion on the subject. MarkThomas 09:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I am seeking to expand this article both quantitatively and qualitatively and I think this will include adding more external site links to academic and critical reaction sites studying Hughes' work. One such link was auto-reverted by an administrator earlier - can passing editors please read this and make comments when doing so if that is what you do, it is very frustrating trying to improve page content for an important author when it just gets reverted without comment or discussion. Thanks. MarkThomas 16:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that at the beginning of the article, it says Ted Hughes was born on August 17th 1930; however, in the `Early life` section, it says he was born on August 18th 1930. Which is correct? 86.16.185.156 ( talk) 18:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
This article states he died of a heart attack, that he had colon cancer, but that the cancer didn't cause his death. However, daughter Frieda's article states he died of cancer. What did he actually die of? If his fatal heart attack was caused by his cancer, then the cause of death on this article should be corrected to colon cancer. If his fatal heart attack was independent of his cancer, then his daughter's article should be corrected accordingly. F W Nietzsche ( talk) 21:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be a fairly huge gap between being raised in a newsagents shop in Yorkshire to Pembroke College,Cambridge. Shouldn't we have just a little in-fill? Am I being picky? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.207.240.101 ( talk) 14:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Hughes seems to have been naturally brilliant, but what really gave his knowledge and literacy a boost was being marooned in an obscure Yorkshire hamlet for two years during his Army service with nothing to occupy himself with except a Complete Shakespeare. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:52, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
"This was obviously the work of some feminist wackoid! --205.188.116.14 09:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)"
--This comment is clearly in violation of a neutral point of view.
I have removed the consistent use of the word feminist thorugh out the entry because it inconspiciously violates a neutral point of view by indicating that only feminists have raised critques on Hughes. There have been more people than just feminists who have raised valid points about the negative influence Hughes may or may not have had on Plath's life. I believe the term feminist has been repeatedly used in this article to devalue the critques and to make them seem only attributable to one group of people. This is not so. Journalists, historians, academics and others have all discussed these issues and raised questions and leveled critiques on the subject.
If someone would like to go back into the article and raise the point that many, but certaintly not all, feminists have questioned the actions of Hughes towards Plath regarding her life, work, or death, then that makes sense. But it is unreasonable to preface every critique mentioned about Hughes as simply the work of feminists.
responce:
look, i would'nt call the person who did it a feminist but as we all know there were some women who did disgusting things in the name of feminizem. the victimization of plath and the character-assaination of hgues as the source of all evel are cinicell deeds in the name of faminizem and the mithization of women as victimes for psaudo feminist agende. but a big amphesis on psuodo there.
---is that a joke?
In regard to the claims of some that Hughes suppressed Plath's most fierce and bitter poems (about him!)--it's important to remember that Hughes was the one who collected Plath's work, formed it into the book Ariel, and basically made her a poetry star.She had not been well known until then. He did not have to do any of this. And some of the poems in Ariel are clearly about him, scathing assessments of his behavior, as she saw it. He behaved more generously than many husbands would have, by including them. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:58, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello. Do you know what rock musician recorded an album based on Ted Hughes' story? Also, would anyone happen to know the name of the aforementioned album? 165.234.180.59 ( talk) 19:21, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
== possible unreliable so used on this page ==urce
"Ted Hughes". www.kirjasto.sci.fi. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/thughes.htm.
The above website appears to not meet the requirements of being a reliable source since it is self published. There is a discussion [ here]. There is also a discussion at the [ plagiarism talk page] about how to handle this issue. -Crunchy Numbers ( talk) 03:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC) ==
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/203794.stm States that he died in Devon NOT London. Teapot george Talk 22:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
This reference also places the death in Devon http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-19496953.html Teapot george Talk 23:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
so was he the reason plath and wife two, killed themselves? whty isn't this addressed, alnog with his quote womanizing behaviour unquote? he was such a great husband his two wives felt hope for living so much as well as hope for their child's life that not only did they kill themselves the second woman killed herself and her child. was this related to how ted made the women feel or did he just go for fucked up women? from what i know of this interesting and relevant public history i truly doubt it was the latter. ~ haruki
hello
i have changed the page. you wrote false things,lies- if to be direct. which are not welcomed in encyclopidia's. or more apropriate for dark ages publishinges of the church than to knowledge in the name of freedome. no litreture critic ever claimed that ted hughes was involved in the death of sylvia plath. that is gust gossip-horrible one- spread by so-called faminist's-who took plath as a modek of a women destroyed by men. they were wrong. sylvia always blamed her mother for her life's dipression- read the diaries and see it for your self. you cannot blame a man for his wife's death becouse he was not faothfull. many men cheat. not all betraid women commit suicide.
you can argue that my e mail is jumping_maya@yahoo.com
maya benbenishty israel
free encyclopedia is for freedom of knowledge- not for writing lies as they were facts of truth.
"Sylvia always blamed her mother for her life's depression"--it's important to remember that Sylvia was mentally ill. All of her life she blamed others for her own problems, and failed to register gratitude when others had treated her generously. For example, when her mother Aurelia Plath was widowed fairly young,and left with little money, she worked steadily at a stressful secretarial job for many years so that Sylvia and her brother could enjoy a solid middle-class upbringing. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Why is the fact that Plath was mentally ill inextricably linked with her "blaming other people" in your statement? Mental illness is not a character flaw; it's a disease. Plath undoubtedly had a complex relationship with her mother, but I don't think Plath was consciously aware of her illness (in the logic of the time regarding mental illness, she was "cured" after her stint in McLean); therefore she could not blame her mother for something she was not aware of. There is no doubt Aurelia Plath dedicated her life to her children; I think the vitriol that Plath exhibited toward her mother in her writing was an attempt to deal with her own inner demons, and more evidence of the tragic intensity of her illness (Perhaps the Plathian-aka-Freudian interpretation of the relationship was also colored by Plath's belief that her father, whom she perceived her mother as resenting, was suicidal as well). It's also not unthinkable that Esther Greenwood's mother's statement that she knew Esther "would decide to be all right" after the first electro-shock therapy is not totally fictionalized; this is no reflection of Aurelia's dedication as a mother, but a reflection of general society's attitude toward the mentally ill at that time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.40.110 ( talk) 05:39, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
As I stated before, there's strong evidence in Sylvia Plath's journals, poems and her novel The Bell Jar that she blamed others for her misfortune. The ridiculous, pathetic mother in The Bell Jar is based on Sylvia's mother--right down to the way she curled her hair. But nowhere in the book does Plath acknowledge the fact that Aurore Plath made heavy sacrifices as a single mother, laboring at uncongenial jobs for years, to provide Plath and her brother with a middle-class upbringing and education. Even when Plath had essentially defamed her mother in The Bell Jar, Mrs. Plath never withdrew her support. She visited England to visit Plath and her husband Ted Hughes in their country home, sent money,unfailingly encouraged Plath, and was casually misused by her on numerous occasions as an unpaid secretary to market poems to magazines.
W.S. Merwin and his then-wife knew Ted and Sylvia Hughes very well in the early 60's. They have both said that they didn't understand how Hughes was able to tolerate Plath. They said his temperament was far more stable than hers, and that she was bitterly unjust toward him and jealous that his poetry was more eagerly received than her own.
In all of this, it's hard to see how Plath's death can be blamed on anyone except herself. Ted Hughes was clearly fascinated by and drawn to brilliant, unstable women (like Assia Wevill), but it's hard to see in what way he was responsible for their instability. He was not a nurse or the attendant at an insane asylum.He was a normally self-involved poet. I think the most that can be said is that he was not fitted to "save" these women. As for the sad death of Nicholas Hughes (Sylvia's and Ted's son) many years later, mental illness is genetic. It is not hard to find the source of Nicholas's depression. Younggoldchip ( talk) 17:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Wevill knew several languages. She was a poet and gifted translater. She translated the work of Israeli poet Yehuda Amachai. The fact that she happened to be beautiful seems to have obscured her intellectual accomplishments in some minds.
Younggoldchip (
talk)
14:50, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the article is blaming anyone, merely outlining the responses of various groups. Are you suggesting there's POV or just making a general comment? Span ( talk) 18:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Half of the introduction should not detail Hughes's role in the death of Plath; this section should be shortened and the section beginning "In 2008 The Times ranked Hughes fourth on their list of "The 50 greatest British writers since 1945"." should be expanded! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.211.245 ( talk) 03:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know of any other affairs (during his marriage to Plath) except that with Asia Wevill. Where is your source for this? (I understand there were affairs during his second marriage)
This article is written in an attempt to be balanced, but you can see that it is still influenced by the way in which rumour dominates the history of Hughes and Plath. There is the weird version of events that says he "drove Plath to suicide". How exactly do you drive someone to suicide? And how did he do so? It is never specified how. By all accounts she was very difficult, and like many marriages, theirs ran into trouble. He had an affair, and she decided to attempt suicide (as she had done at least once before she met him). Sadly she succeeded. I do not see how he can be blamed for her decision.
The "drove Plath to suicide" story is simply malicious rumour. Because it has been said so widely, even commentators trying to give a balanced view seem to feel obliged to repeat it as a point of view. Those who attack Hughes (who are 'interested' in Plath) tend to behave in an utterly hysterical manner - what they say does not count as scholarship. In Wikipedia we should stick to what we have GOOD EVIDENCE for, as a good scholar would — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.189.243 ( talk) 07:24, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Just come across this article and Talk page. Somewhat to my surprise I see there was a debate not so long ago about Hughes and "affairs". Well, here is one referred to elsewhere on Wikipedia and detailed at some length in an autobiographical book: see Emma Tennant and Bananas (literary magazine).
And then there's this (one easily found link but there is a lot about this relationship in books and articles).
I could go on. Is this article so tilted to the 1960s that none of his later behaviour (characterised by one journalist as "compulsively unfaithful") is relevant? Testbed ( talk) 18:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I find this article extraordinarily biased. The first issue I have about it is that the author only talks about Hughes many awards and successes, and how Hughes was one of the great writers of his generation, simply because so many of his contemporaries have said so. However, I'm sure Hughes had his detractors and critics, aside from the feminists, and yet, there is no mention of this. I've never heard of a great writer not being panned. Everyone, good, bad, or great, is panned. It's just the way it is. Not everyone likes your writing. Yet, this article only speaks of Hughes's accomplishments.
Also, I find it interesting that there is no mention of the famous incident in which Hughes -- apparently aggressively seeking to kiss Plath, rips off Plath's headband and earrings and she responds by biting him on the cheek. On the very first night they met, I'm not going to bother citing a source because the info can be found anywhere and by now, it is considered common knowledge. Plath describes it in her own writings,
And yet, no one seems to think it indicative of the relationship which was to follow. However, there is mention of how Hughes biographers stated that Plath wasn't up front and honest about her emotional problems when she met Hughes. The inappropriateness of Hughes behavior such as ripping off her earrings -- which would have hurt -- doesn't ever seem to strike any of the academic "intelligentsia" as strange, totally inappropriate or even worthy of commenting on. Yet, Plath biting him on the cheek has been talked about over and over again. How dare she play his little game. In short, the idea that Hughes didn't know Plath had deep emotional issues is preposterous. And the myth that has been perpetrated by the press and academia, that he was the saner of the two, is also preposterous. Sane people don't marry emotionally unstable people.
Additionally, a commentator in the talk section refers to people who feel that Hughes mistreatment of Plath through his many "alleged" affairs" is not a reason to kill yourself. It is if you're all ready suffering from mental illness. I think this is the real issue that so many feminists take issue with. And yet there seem to be a great many Hughes apologists who like to gloss over these ideas. Also, Hughes well-known and documented affairs weren't alleged. They were real. I'm totally baffled as to why there should be any question about whether his behavior and his cheating should be thought to be bad. It was unquestionably bad. Did he know it would devastate his all ready mentally ill wife? Possibly not -- but would a reasonable person think it might drive her over the edge? Yes. So, it is something a thinking person wouldn't do.
This article could have been so much better, if the author had just thought more critically about the subject. If you're going to write an article just about Hughes and his writing, then it would be easier, I grant you. However, you can't separate him from Plath. So, please be more thoughtful about why so many "feminists" , a.k.a., women, are upset about how their relationship was portrayed. Also, has it occurred to you that maybe some of the many accolades Hughes received after Plath's death, is because people who sympathized with Hughes actively sought to make him appear in a better light? Also, this article seems to gloss over the fact that Plath's mother and Hughes destroyed a great deal of her writing after her death, by saying that they did it to spare the children. I know this is what Hughes has said -- but there were valid criticisms of this by scholars and yet you chose not to write about that.
Additionally, the idea that Nicholas Hughes killed himself because he was traumatized by the death of Plath and that the blame rests on her, as someone mentioned in this forum, is not possible. Nicholas Hughes was a baby when his mother died. He wouldn't have any memory of it and he didn't witness it. However, children can be traumatized by an incident years afterwards, simply by how it is presented to them, by how the story is told to them.
KyleMacAlasDair ( talk) 08:54, 5 February 2012 (UTC)KyleMacAlasDair
An editor added a sentence to the article on Große Fuge that Ted Hughes wrote a poem in his volume "Moortown" about the Beethoven quartet. I think the editor was confusing this with Sylvia Plath's poem "Little Fugue". Does anyone know if Hughes wrote a poem about the Grosse Fuge? thanks, Ravpapa ( talk) 05:46, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Just checked back at this - rather skewed - article. Anyone who knew Hughes - and who also thinks Wikipedia should be encyclopaedic - will be surprised at the omission of a section called (say) Personal life or some such neutral term as a way of summarising an important part of his life.
Looking back at the history of this article and at some of the comments above, one can only assume there is some bias in those who feel (contrary to Wikipedia policy) that they "control" or "own" this article. Perhaps they are trying to save the feelings of somebody/somebodys living, or there is some other explanation. I have tried in the past to go into Hughes's relentless affairs, as per umpteen other Wikipedia articles on other deceased shaggers, but this is clearly unwelcome.
If the view is that his personal life did not impact on his work, and so why mention the affairs, that could in theory be argued in relation to an article exclusively about Hughes' literary work (although there too his screwing around might be seen to be relevant) - but this article is about him (perhaps there might be two articles, one biographic, warts and all, and another more precious one exclusively about the work?) If the sources on his affairs are not acceptable (they include the woman who had an affair with him and then wrote an entire book about it) it is hard to know what would be suitable, given comparable articles elsewhere on Wikipedia and indeed the Wikirules on such matters.
I don't like censorship on Wikipedia (within Wikinorms of cousre) but would prefer others to take up this fight. To that end, here below is the material published today by The Sunday Times, hidden behind a paywall but available for any editor to use to improve the article. In any case I will formulate a WP:RFC on the issue to bring in a wider range of editors.
Testbed ( talk) 15:51, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I am just wondering (like many other non-English natives) how his surname is to be pronounced correctly. Someone having reliable information on this point might insert this information (in phonetic transcription, using IPA characters) right at the beginning of the article. Saquiwej ( talk) 19:38, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
I am not competent in phonetics, but the usual pronounciation rhymes with 'news' or 'pews'. Pincrete ( talk) 15:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I noticed in the list of works, no mention of plays written for children. The one I know is Sean, the fool, the cat and the devil, but I believe there was at least one other. The only reference to 'Sean' that a google search revealed was a bookseller selling a first edition and a children's drama group performing a double-bill of this and another of his plays. Perhaps someone who knows more abouy this side of his work (and dates etc.) could add the plays to his output list. Pincrete ( talk) 15:19, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Am having some difficulty finding any evidence that Hughes belongs to Category:Hungarian–English translators. The article says "In addition to his own poetry, Hughes wrote a number of translations of European plays, mainly classical ones. His Tales from Ovid (1997) contains a selection of free verse translations from Ovid's Metamorphoses." But this statement is not supported any any source(s). Perhaps Category:Greek–English translators would be more appropriate? Martinevans123 ( talk) 13:21, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I went to footnote 4 but you need a subscription to see it. Is this valid for Wiki source purposes? -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 02:55, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
small point. I find the word "partner" in the info box a bit unusual but I see on the Wiki page Partner that it can mean "A friend who shares a common interest or participates in achieving a common goal; A sexual partner; A significant other in an intimate relationship." In my experience the word implies something residential. So I tried to link to the Wiki page using the block braces around the word Partner (so that readers can see what Wiki thinks 'partner' can mean) but then the entry 'partner Assia Wevill' disappears altogether. Can someone tell me how to do this? Or is it a Wiki no-no to link a template word? -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 03:20, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I removed this:
Various Google searches turn up nothing for Fishgig or British Foundation for Testicular Cancer Survivors. Is this bunk or can someone verify this? -- Minesweeper 02:50, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
This was obviously the work of some feminist wackoid! -- 205.188.116.14 09:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Many people have stated that his mistreatment of Sylvia Plath and Assia Wevill caused Plath to commit suicide and Wevill to murder her daughter and commit suicide. Many such accusers strongly hate Hughes for being very unpleasant to both women. However, the only specific accusation I have heard is that he had sex with other women. That is common, it rarely causes a woman to murder or commit suicide, and should not elicit such hatred from so many people, even militant feminists. In any case, Wevill knew from the start of their relationship that he wasn't monogamous; she knew he was married to Plath from before the start of their their affair until Plath's suicide. What is he alleged to have done that was so unbearable, and is there any evidence that he actually did it? If he was so horrible, why did Carol Orchard marry him, and put up with him for the following 28 years? F W Nietzsche ( talk) 21:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Ink Falls, as I stated below, it's not difficult to find the source of Nicholas Hughes's despair. Mental illness is genetic. The younger Hughes had inherited his mother's depression. Younggoldchip ( talk) 17:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
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is not mentioned in the article. -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 08:12, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I reverted the wording 'He is considered by most to be one of the best poets of his generation' to 'He is considered by some ... ' as this seems less POV-based. Certainly his repute has generally been high, but it seems to me the 'poets of his generation' are such a numerous and varied bunch, comprising practitioners of a number of different styles, that most might not be quite accurate in this context. Perhaps 'Considered by many ' is a good compromise. Any thoughts? — Stumps 12:37, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I was wondering if sylvia's children were placed in the room of her house when she committed suicide,or moved to the ted hughes' lover's house ,prior to her suicide I was wondering if Sylvia Plath has any living grandchildren. dinopup
Before Plath killed herself, she put her children--toddler Frieda and infant Nick--in beds in an upstairs bedroom. She left a glass of milk on a table by Frieda's bed. She left the window slightly open. Evidently she took some thought to protect them from any gas that might seep upstairs. She closed the kitchen doors and placed towels along the bottom of the doors before turning on the gas. Also, a babysitter had been scheduled to arrive shortly after this, so Plath must have thought the children would be discovered very quickly and would be safe. In fact, some biographers have suggested that Plath was merely play-acting at suicide, had thought she'd be found in time, and that a brush with death would bring Hughes back to her. However, there was a mixup in communication and the baby sitter did not arrive as scheduled. The children (unharmed) were found later, and of course Plath was dead by then. A. Alvarez has detailed Plath's suicide (and state of mind leading up to it) in The Savage God, his book about suicide. Inspite of her mental state, Plath unmistakably did what she could to protect her children. This is in contrast to the even more tragic case of Assia Wevill, Ted Hughes' mistress, who murdered both her child and herself a few years later. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
This isn't a poem. Skinnyweed 18:31, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
for the person who edited my editing- thank you!
(that's a non-cinicel thank you), i needed editting. as you can see i re-editted my own writing myself as well- you were very kind with me and some of the things that could have been dropped out remained. so i was harsh on myself and took them out.
thank you that was very nice
maya (jumping_maya@yahoo.com)
Hughes' relationship with Plath is so celebrated and controversial that I think we should say more in this page. I am writing a small section on it and would appreciate comments and reviews of it when done - I don't intend to take a rigid position or "fall into the Plath or Hughes camp" as so many do, but to reflect recent more measured opinion on the subject. MarkThomas 09:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I am seeking to expand this article both quantitatively and qualitatively and I think this will include adding more external site links to academic and critical reaction sites studying Hughes' work. One such link was auto-reverted by an administrator earlier - can passing editors please read this and make comments when doing so if that is what you do, it is very frustrating trying to improve page content for an important author when it just gets reverted without comment or discussion. Thanks. MarkThomas 16:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that at the beginning of the article, it says Ted Hughes was born on August 17th 1930; however, in the `Early life` section, it says he was born on August 18th 1930. Which is correct? 86.16.185.156 ( talk) 18:55, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
This article states he died of a heart attack, that he had colon cancer, but that the cancer didn't cause his death. However, daughter Frieda's article states he died of cancer. What did he actually die of? If his fatal heart attack was caused by his cancer, then the cause of death on this article should be corrected to colon cancer. If his fatal heart attack was independent of his cancer, then his daughter's article should be corrected accordingly. F W Nietzsche ( talk) 21:24, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
There seems to be a fairly huge gap between being raised in a newsagents shop in Yorkshire to Pembroke College,Cambridge. Shouldn't we have just a little in-fill? Am I being picky? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.207.240.101 ( talk) 14:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Hughes seems to have been naturally brilliant, but what really gave his knowledge and literacy a boost was being marooned in an obscure Yorkshire hamlet for two years during his Army service with nothing to occupy himself with except a Complete Shakespeare. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:52, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
"This was obviously the work of some feminist wackoid! --205.188.116.14 09:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)"
--This comment is clearly in violation of a neutral point of view.
I have removed the consistent use of the word feminist thorugh out the entry because it inconspiciously violates a neutral point of view by indicating that only feminists have raised critques on Hughes. There have been more people than just feminists who have raised valid points about the negative influence Hughes may or may not have had on Plath's life. I believe the term feminist has been repeatedly used in this article to devalue the critques and to make them seem only attributable to one group of people. This is not so. Journalists, historians, academics and others have all discussed these issues and raised questions and leveled critiques on the subject.
If someone would like to go back into the article and raise the point that many, but certaintly not all, feminists have questioned the actions of Hughes towards Plath regarding her life, work, or death, then that makes sense. But it is unreasonable to preface every critique mentioned about Hughes as simply the work of feminists.
responce:
look, i would'nt call the person who did it a feminist but as we all know there were some women who did disgusting things in the name of feminizem. the victimization of plath and the character-assaination of hgues as the source of all evel are cinicell deeds in the name of faminizem and the mithization of women as victimes for psaudo feminist agende. but a big amphesis on psuodo there.
---is that a joke?
In regard to the claims of some that Hughes suppressed Plath's most fierce and bitter poems (about him!)--it's important to remember that Hughes was the one who collected Plath's work, formed it into the book Ariel, and basically made her a poetry star.She had not been well known until then. He did not have to do any of this. And some of the poems in Ariel are clearly about him, scathing assessments of his behavior, as she saw it. He behaved more generously than many husbands would have, by including them. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:58, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Hello. Do you know what rock musician recorded an album based on Ted Hughes' story? Also, would anyone happen to know the name of the aforementioned album? 165.234.180.59 ( talk) 19:21, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
== possible unreliable so used on this page ==urce
"Ted Hughes". www.kirjasto.sci.fi. http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/thughes.htm.
The above website appears to not meet the requirements of being a reliable source since it is self published. There is a discussion [ here]. There is also a discussion at the [ plagiarism talk page] about how to handle this issue. -Crunchy Numbers ( talk) 03:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC) ==
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/203794.stm States that he died in Devon NOT London. Teapot george Talk 22:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
This reference also places the death in Devon http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-19496953.html Teapot george Talk 23:16, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
so was he the reason plath and wife two, killed themselves? whty isn't this addressed, alnog with his quote womanizing behaviour unquote? he was such a great husband his two wives felt hope for living so much as well as hope for their child's life that not only did they kill themselves the second woman killed herself and her child. was this related to how ted made the women feel or did he just go for fucked up women? from what i know of this interesting and relevant public history i truly doubt it was the latter. ~ haruki
hello
i have changed the page. you wrote false things,lies- if to be direct. which are not welcomed in encyclopidia's. or more apropriate for dark ages publishinges of the church than to knowledge in the name of freedome. no litreture critic ever claimed that ted hughes was involved in the death of sylvia plath. that is gust gossip-horrible one- spread by so-called faminist's-who took plath as a modek of a women destroyed by men. they were wrong. sylvia always blamed her mother for her life's dipression- read the diaries and see it for your self. you cannot blame a man for his wife's death becouse he was not faothfull. many men cheat. not all betraid women commit suicide.
you can argue that my e mail is jumping_maya@yahoo.com
maya benbenishty israel
free encyclopedia is for freedom of knowledge- not for writing lies as they were facts of truth.
"Sylvia always blamed her mother for her life's depression"--it's important to remember that Sylvia was mentally ill. All of her life she blamed others for her own problems, and failed to register gratitude when others had treated her generously. For example, when her mother Aurelia Plath was widowed fairly young,and left with little money, she worked steadily at a stressful secretarial job for many years so that Sylvia and her brother could enjoy a solid middle-class upbringing. Younggoldchip ( talk) 14:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Why is the fact that Plath was mentally ill inextricably linked with her "blaming other people" in your statement? Mental illness is not a character flaw; it's a disease. Plath undoubtedly had a complex relationship with her mother, but I don't think Plath was consciously aware of her illness (in the logic of the time regarding mental illness, she was "cured" after her stint in McLean); therefore she could not blame her mother for something she was not aware of. There is no doubt Aurelia Plath dedicated her life to her children; I think the vitriol that Plath exhibited toward her mother in her writing was an attempt to deal with her own inner demons, and more evidence of the tragic intensity of her illness (Perhaps the Plathian-aka-Freudian interpretation of the relationship was also colored by Plath's belief that her father, whom she perceived her mother as resenting, was suicidal as well). It's also not unthinkable that Esther Greenwood's mother's statement that she knew Esther "would decide to be all right" after the first electro-shock therapy is not totally fictionalized; this is no reflection of Aurelia's dedication as a mother, but a reflection of general society's attitude toward the mentally ill at that time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.40.110 ( talk) 05:39, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
As I stated before, there's strong evidence in Sylvia Plath's journals, poems and her novel The Bell Jar that she blamed others for her misfortune. The ridiculous, pathetic mother in The Bell Jar is based on Sylvia's mother--right down to the way she curled her hair. But nowhere in the book does Plath acknowledge the fact that Aurore Plath made heavy sacrifices as a single mother, laboring at uncongenial jobs for years, to provide Plath and her brother with a middle-class upbringing and education. Even when Plath had essentially defamed her mother in The Bell Jar, Mrs. Plath never withdrew her support. She visited England to visit Plath and her husband Ted Hughes in their country home, sent money,unfailingly encouraged Plath, and was casually misused by her on numerous occasions as an unpaid secretary to market poems to magazines.
W.S. Merwin and his then-wife knew Ted and Sylvia Hughes very well in the early 60's. They have both said that they didn't understand how Hughes was able to tolerate Plath. They said his temperament was far more stable than hers, and that she was bitterly unjust toward him and jealous that his poetry was more eagerly received than her own.
In all of this, it's hard to see how Plath's death can be blamed on anyone except herself. Ted Hughes was clearly fascinated by and drawn to brilliant, unstable women (like Assia Wevill), but it's hard to see in what way he was responsible for their instability. He was not a nurse or the attendant at an insane asylum.He was a normally self-involved poet. I think the most that can be said is that he was not fitted to "save" these women. As for the sad death of Nicholas Hughes (Sylvia's and Ted's son) many years later, mental illness is genetic. It is not hard to find the source of Nicholas's depression. Younggoldchip ( talk) 17:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Wevill knew several languages. She was a poet and gifted translater. She translated the work of Israeli poet Yehuda Amachai. The fact that she happened to be beautiful seems to have obscured her intellectual accomplishments in some minds.
Younggoldchip (
talk)
14:50, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the article is blaming anyone, merely outlining the responses of various groups. Are you suggesting there's POV or just making a general comment? Span ( talk) 18:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Half of the introduction should not detail Hughes's role in the death of Plath; this section should be shortened and the section beginning "In 2008 The Times ranked Hughes fourth on their list of "The 50 greatest British writers since 1945"." should be expanded! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.211.245 ( talk) 03:36, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
I don't know of any other affairs (during his marriage to Plath) except that with Asia Wevill. Where is your source for this? (I understand there were affairs during his second marriage)
This article is written in an attempt to be balanced, but you can see that it is still influenced by the way in which rumour dominates the history of Hughes and Plath. There is the weird version of events that says he "drove Plath to suicide". How exactly do you drive someone to suicide? And how did he do so? It is never specified how. By all accounts she was very difficult, and like many marriages, theirs ran into trouble. He had an affair, and she decided to attempt suicide (as she had done at least once before she met him). Sadly she succeeded. I do not see how he can be blamed for her decision.
The "drove Plath to suicide" story is simply malicious rumour. Because it has been said so widely, even commentators trying to give a balanced view seem to feel obliged to repeat it as a point of view. Those who attack Hughes (who are 'interested' in Plath) tend to behave in an utterly hysterical manner - what they say does not count as scholarship. In Wikipedia we should stick to what we have GOOD EVIDENCE for, as a good scholar would — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.189.243 ( talk) 07:24, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Just come across this article and Talk page. Somewhat to my surprise I see there was a debate not so long ago about Hughes and "affairs". Well, here is one referred to elsewhere on Wikipedia and detailed at some length in an autobiographical book: see Emma Tennant and Bananas (literary magazine).
And then there's this (one easily found link but there is a lot about this relationship in books and articles).
I could go on. Is this article so tilted to the 1960s that none of his later behaviour (characterised by one journalist as "compulsively unfaithful") is relevant? Testbed ( talk) 18:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
I find this article extraordinarily biased. The first issue I have about it is that the author only talks about Hughes many awards and successes, and how Hughes was one of the great writers of his generation, simply because so many of his contemporaries have said so. However, I'm sure Hughes had his detractors and critics, aside from the feminists, and yet, there is no mention of this. I've never heard of a great writer not being panned. Everyone, good, bad, or great, is panned. It's just the way it is. Not everyone likes your writing. Yet, this article only speaks of Hughes's accomplishments.
Also, I find it interesting that there is no mention of the famous incident in which Hughes -- apparently aggressively seeking to kiss Plath, rips off Plath's headband and earrings and she responds by biting him on the cheek. On the very first night they met, I'm not going to bother citing a source because the info can be found anywhere and by now, it is considered common knowledge. Plath describes it in her own writings,
And yet, no one seems to think it indicative of the relationship which was to follow. However, there is mention of how Hughes biographers stated that Plath wasn't up front and honest about her emotional problems when she met Hughes. The inappropriateness of Hughes behavior such as ripping off her earrings -- which would have hurt -- doesn't ever seem to strike any of the academic "intelligentsia" as strange, totally inappropriate or even worthy of commenting on. Yet, Plath biting him on the cheek has been talked about over and over again. How dare she play his little game. In short, the idea that Hughes didn't know Plath had deep emotional issues is preposterous. And the myth that has been perpetrated by the press and academia, that he was the saner of the two, is also preposterous. Sane people don't marry emotionally unstable people.
Additionally, a commentator in the talk section refers to people who feel that Hughes mistreatment of Plath through his many "alleged" affairs" is not a reason to kill yourself. It is if you're all ready suffering from mental illness. I think this is the real issue that so many feminists take issue with. And yet there seem to be a great many Hughes apologists who like to gloss over these ideas. Also, Hughes well-known and documented affairs weren't alleged. They were real. I'm totally baffled as to why there should be any question about whether his behavior and his cheating should be thought to be bad. It was unquestionably bad. Did he know it would devastate his all ready mentally ill wife? Possibly not -- but would a reasonable person think it might drive her over the edge? Yes. So, it is something a thinking person wouldn't do.
This article could have been so much better, if the author had just thought more critically about the subject. If you're going to write an article just about Hughes and his writing, then it would be easier, I grant you. However, you can't separate him from Plath. So, please be more thoughtful about why so many "feminists" , a.k.a., women, are upset about how their relationship was portrayed. Also, has it occurred to you that maybe some of the many accolades Hughes received after Plath's death, is because people who sympathized with Hughes actively sought to make him appear in a better light? Also, this article seems to gloss over the fact that Plath's mother and Hughes destroyed a great deal of her writing after her death, by saying that they did it to spare the children. I know this is what Hughes has said -- but there were valid criticisms of this by scholars and yet you chose not to write about that.
Additionally, the idea that Nicholas Hughes killed himself because he was traumatized by the death of Plath and that the blame rests on her, as someone mentioned in this forum, is not possible. Nicholas Hughes was a baby when his mother died. He wouldn't have any memory of it and he didn't witness it. However, children can be traumatized by an incident years afterwards, simply by how it is presented to them, by how the story is told to them.
KyleMacAlasDair ( talk) 08:54, 5 February 2012 (UTC)KyleMacAlasDair
An editor added a sentence to the article on Große Fuge that Ted Hughes wrote a poem in his volume "Moortown" about the Beethoven quartet. I think the editor was confusing this with Sylvia Plath's poem "Little Fugue". Does anyone know if Hughes wrote a poem about the Grosse Fuge? thanks, Ravpapa ( talk) 05:46, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Just checked back at this - rather skewed - article. Anyone who knew Hughes - and who also thinks Wikipedia should be encyclopaedic - will be surprised at the omission of a section called (say) Personal life or some such neutral term as a way of summarising an important part of his life.
Looking back at the history of this article and at some of the comments above, one can only assume there is some bias in those who feel (contrary to Wikipedia policy) that they "control" or "own" this article. Perhaps they are trying to save the feelings of somebody/somebodys living, or there is some other explanation. I have tried in the past to go into Hughes's relentless affairs, as per umpteen other Wikipedia articles on other deceased shaggers, but this is clearly unwelcome.
If the view is that his personal life did not impact on his work, and so why mention the affairs, that could in theory be argued in relation to an article exclusively about Hughes' literary work (although there too his screwing around might be seen to be relevant) - but this article is about him (perhaps there might be two articles, one biographic, warts and all, and another more precious one exclusively about the work?) If the sources on his affairs are not acceptable (they include the woman who had an affair with him and then wrote an entire book about it) it is hard to know what would be suitable, given comparable articles elsewhere on Wikipedia and indeed the Wikirules on such matters.
I don't like censorship on Wikipedia (within Wikinorms of cousre) but would prefer others to take up this fight. To that end, here below is the material published today by The Sunday Times, hidden behind a paywall but available for any editor to use to improve the article. In any case I will formulate a WP:RFC on the issue to bring in a wider range of editors.
Testbed ( talk) 15:51, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I am just wondering (like many other non-English natives) how his surname is to be pronounced correctly. Someone having reliable information on this point might insert this information (in phonetic transcription, using IPA characters) right at the beginning of the article. Saquiwej ( talk) 19:38, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
I am not competent in phonetics, but the usual pronounciation rhymes with 'news' or 'pews'. Pincrete ( talk) 15:09, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I noticed in the list of works, no mention of plays written for children. The one I know is Sean, the fool, the cat and the devil, but I believe there was at least one other. The only reference to 'Sean' that a google search revealed was a bookseller selling a first edition and a children's drama group performing a double-bill of this and another of his plays. Perhaps someone who knows more abouy this side of his work (and dates etc.) could add the plays to his output list. Pincrete ( talk) 15:19, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Am having some difficulty finding any evidence that Hughes belongs to Category:Hungarian–English translators. The article says "In addition to his own poetry, Hughes wrote a number of translations of European plays, mainly classical ones. His Tales from Ovid (1997) contains a selection of free verse translations from Ovid's Metamorphoses." But this statement is not supported any any source(s). Perhaps Category:Greek–English translators would be more appropriate? Martinevans123 ( talk) 13:21, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
I went to footnote 4 but you need a subscription to see it. Is this valid for Wiki source purposes? -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 02:55, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
small point. I find the word "partner" in the info box a bit unusual but I see on the Wiki page Partner that it can mean "A friend who shares a common interest or participates in achieving a common goal; A sexual partner; A significant other in an intimate relationship." In my experience the word implies something residential. So I tried to link to the Wiki page using the block braces around the word Partner (so that readers can see what Wiki thinks 'partner' can mean) but then the entry 'partner Assia Wevill' disappears altogether. Can someone tell me how to do this? Or is it a Wiki no-no to link a template word? -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 03:20, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I removed this:
Various Google searches turn up nothing for Fishgig or British Foundation for Testicular Cancer Survivors. Is this bunk or can someone verify this? -- Minesweeper 02:50, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
This was obviously the work of some feminist wackoid! -- 205.188.116.14 09:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
Many people have stated that his mistreatment of Sylvia Plath and Assia Wevill caused Plath to commit suicide and Wevill to murder her daughter and commit suicide. Many such accusers strongly hate Hughes for being very unpleasant to both women. However, the only specific accusation I have heard is that he had sex with other women. That is common, it rarely causes a woman to murder or commit suicide, and should not elicit such hatred from so many people, even militant feminists. In any case, Wevill knew from the start of their relationship that he wasn't monogamous; she knew he was married to Plath from before the start of their their affair until Plath's suicide. What is he alleged to have done that was so unbearable, and is there any evidence that he actually did it? If he was so horrible, why did Carol Orchard marry him, and put up with him for the following 28 years? F W Nietzsche ( talk) 21:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Ink Falls, as I stated below, it's not difficult to find the source of Nicholas Hughes's despair. Mental illness is genetic. The younger Hughes had inherited his mother's depression. Younggoldchip ( talk) 17:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
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is not mentioned in the article. -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 08:12, 29 December 2018 (UTC)