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Hey JT,
I'm making my corrections off the Japanese article. What's your source for this? I'm just wondering where the discrepancies have crept in.
I changed "silver demon" to "silver hare" per the Japanese page, but the kanji look rather similar. "Demon" seems a more fitting name for this variant, but there you go. There is no "side chariot" in the Japanese article; instead they have a "running chariot". (It goes in all orthogonal directions.)
A lot more pieces promote - or demote, actually, since once you capture you're left with a gold. But a few become more powerful; I'll get you the movements they make in the next day or two.
I haven't verified the piece movements at all. Taishogi pieces often move differently than pieces with the same names in other variants, so I should probably do that.
I've caught one blatant naming error in the Japanese chu shogi article, so if you feel your source is correct, maybe it is!
Thanks for all the hard work! kwami 13:19, 2005 September 4 (UTC)
I neglected to keep track of all my sources as I should have done. My main sources for this article where: an article by Luke Merritt at Roger Hare’s website, and this article (which has its own references but the links are now broken). Luke also wrote an article on orthodox shogi and proclaimed it “incomplete” (His article on Tai shogi had no such proclamation).
“Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.” - David Fasold; later Carl Sagan on Ptolemy’s earth centered universe. -- JTTyler 23:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Because there are no drops, a knight cannot land on the last rank. He must stay at the second-from-last rank. JTTyler
I have found that sennichite could meen "lonely soldier" or "enduring lonelyness" which could refer to the 'bare king' rule, which dosn't exist in tai shogi. If this is correct, then my english sources where wrong(for using the word sennichite). --JTTyler
𩹄 = 魚+曷 (U+29E44) http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=29E44
An anon editor just today made numerous revisions, including deleting several pieces, without ref. Since this article could so easily get garbled, I reverted. However, it did seem to be done in good faith, and could well be correct, since a lot of the info we have is suspect. Anon, could you supply your sources? Thanks. kwami 22:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Note: There are notes in Japanese wikipedia on sourcing problems for the deva and dark spirit which may have been overlooked because they're linked to the maka daidai diagrams and only appear at the very ends of the notes. There's also a discrepancy with the gold. kwami ( talk) 21:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Could someone verify the Lion Dog (Komainu) promotion in the Japanese wiki, please? I believe the Japanese article states it promotes to a Great Elephant and the English article inaccurately quotes the Japanese but I'm only using google translate so I may be incorrect. Many thanks! Shumby ( talk) 18:04, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
In the piece list and the movement description there is the Free Dream-Eater, but in the initial position there is the Free Tapir. Both are presumably the same piece. Since I don't read japanese, can someone clarify this issue (and unify, if necessary)? 84.165.253.220 ( talk) 21:33, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Why are there no movement diagrams like the other variants? OosakaNoOusama ( talk) 05:54, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
I still feel kind of guilty about not doing this one, because it has been done for dai-dai and maka-dai-dai and hence most of this would be a copy-paste festival, and because it is one of the grand old trio from the Muromachi period. Maybe I'll try to get it done soon. (I'll pass on taikyoku, because that would actually require significant amounts of original work, and it is difficult to say what the original rules are. Not that this isn't true for the Muromachi trio, but then you can use your imagination to iron out inconsistencies.) Double sharp ( talk) 15:29, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi,
It is written in this article that an emperor cannot capture any piece if the opponent also has their emperor, because the latter protects all its pieces. That does not seem obviously true at all for me. Imagine player A has a pawn that is not protected by any piece (but the emperor), this same pawn being under the attack of, let us say, a rook of player B′s. Then if player B captured the pawn with emperor B, the latter piece would thence lie on a protected cell and emperor A would not be able to capture it. Thus, in my logic, the pawn is not protected, even by emperor A. We could not say then that the emperor cannot capture anything lest the opponent emperor is already gone, nor could we say that an emperor protects all its pieces. This is supported by the absence of this remark in the article on maka dai dai shōgi.
Does someone know more about it?
UseresuUK ( talk) 17:15, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Does someone know if, as in maka dai dai shōgi, the capture of a deva promotes the capturer to a teaching king and, likewise, the capture of a dark spirit promotes it to a buddhist spirit (I assume in any case this does not apply to a royal piece, though not mentioned)?
UseresuUK ( talk) 17:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
As has been noted by The Player of Games at BoardGameGeek, this article contradicts itself in having two tables of pieces giving two different promotions.
FWIW, I have intended since about 2012 to get this article into the layout of our articles on dai-dai and maka-dai-dai shogi. Doing that would also entail correcting this problem. Of course, it's also the start of 2022 now and I still haven't done it. My apologies, even if there's an obvious reason why I haven't. :( Maybe when I can kill some hours... Anyway, the fact that it's basically a combination of dai-dai and maka-dai-dai should make it a bit faster, when I actually can stomach enough courage and free time to start. Double sharp ( talk) 12:30, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Ah, I overlooked an argument. Under Japanese Wikipedia rules, the hook-moving pieces all have to demote to Gold on capture, and you can't even get the Hook Mover back because the Poisonous Snake also demotes to Gold. Maybe it's lack of imagination, but I can't see how you're going to ever checkmate an Emperor without them. :) Double sharp ( talk) 09:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
The taishi (太子) is referred to as King in some places in the text, and Prince in others. (Prince seems like the more accurate translation, but King reflects the analogy to chess). I don't have a strong opinion as to which name is better, but I would like to see all the references changed to the same name, with perhaps a note that XXX is called YYY by other writers. -- ABehrens ( talk) 05:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hey JT,
I'm making my corrections off the Japanese article. What's your source for this? I'm just wondering where the discrepancies have crept in.
I changed "silver demon" to "silver hare" per the Japanese page, but the kanji look rather similar. "Demon" seems a more fitting name for this variant, but there you go. There is no "side chariot" in the Japanese article; instead they have a "running chariot". (It goes in all orthogonal directions.)
A lot more pieces promote - or demote, actually, since once you capture you're left with a gold. But a few become more powerful; I'll get you the movements they make in the next day or two.
I haven't verified the piece movements at all. Taishogi pieces often move differently than pieces with the same names in other variants, so I should probably do that.
I've caught one blatant naming error in the Japanese chu shogi article, so if you feel your source is correct, maybe it is!
Thanks for all the hard work! kwami 13:19, 2005 September 4 (UTC)
I neglected to keep track of all my sources as I should have done. My main sources for this article where: an article by Luke Merritt at Roger Hare’s website, and this article (which has its own references but the links are now broken). Luke also wrote an article on orthodox shogi and proclaimed it “incomplete” (His article on Tai shogi had no such proclamation).
“Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.” - David Fasold; later Carl Sagan on Ptolemy’s earth centered universe. -- JTTyler 23:37, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Because there are no drops, a knight cannot land on the last rank. He must stay at the second-from-last rank. JTTyler
I have found that sennichite could meen "lonely soldier" or "enduring lonelyness" which could refer to the 'bare king' rule, which dosn't exist in tai shogi. If this is correct, then my english sources where wrong(for using the word sennichite). --JTTyler
𩹄 = 魚+曷 (U+29E44) http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=29E44
An anon editor just today made numerous revisions, including deleting several pieces, without ref. Since this article could so easily get garbled, I reverted. However, it did seem to be done in good faith, and could well be correct, since a lot of the info we have is suspect. Anon, could you supply your sources? Thanks. kwami 22:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Note: There are notes in Japanese wikipedia on sourcing problems for the deva and dark spirit which may have been overlooked because they're linked to the maka daidai diagrams and only appear at the very ends of the notes. There's also a discrepancy with the gold. kwami ( talk) 21:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Could someone verify the Lion Dog (Komainu) promotion in the Japanese wiki, please? I believe the Japanese article states it promotes to a Great Elephant and the English article inaccurately quotes the Japanese but I'm only using google translate so I may be incorrect. Many thanks! Shumby ( talk) 18:04, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
In the piece list and the movement description there is the Free Dream-Eater, but in the initial position there is the Free Tapir. Both are presumably the same piece. Since I don't read japanese, can someone clarify this issue (and unify, if necessary)? 84.165.253.220 ( talk) 21:33, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Why are there no movement diagrams like the other variants? OosakaNoOusama ( talk) 05:54, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
I still feel kind of guilty about not doing this one, because it has been done for dai-dai and maka-dai-dai and hence most of this would be a copy-paste festival, and because it is one of the grand old trio from the Muromachi period. Maybe I'll try to get it done soon. (I'll pass on taikyoku, because that would actually require significant amounts of original work, and it is difficult to say what the original rules are. Not that this isn't true for the Muromachi trio, but then you can use your imagination to iron out inconsistencies.) Double sharp ( talk) 15:29, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi,
It is written in this article that an emperor cannot capture any piece if the opponent also has their emperor, because the latter protects all its pieces. That does not seem obviously true at all for me. Imagine player A has a pawn that is not protected by any piece (but the emperor), this same pawn being under the attack of, let us say, a rook of player B′s. Then if player B captured the pawn with emperor B, the latter piece would thence lie on a protected cell and emperor A would not be able to capture it. Thus, in my logic, the pawn is not protected, even by emperor A. We could not say then that the emperor cannot capture anything lest the opponent emperor is already gone, nor could we say that an emperor protects all its pieces. This is supported by the absence of this remark in the article on maka dai dai shōgi.
Does someone know more about it?
UseresuUK ( talk) 17:15, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Does someone know if, as in maka dai dai shōgi, the capture of a deva promotes the capturer to a teaching king and, likewise, the capture of a dark spirit promotes it to a buddhist spirit (I assume in any case this does not apply to a royal piece, though not mentioned)?
UseresuUK ( talk) 17:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
As has been noted by The Player of Games at BoardGameGeek, this article contradicts itself in having two tables of pieces giving two different promotions.
FWIW, I have intended since about 2012 to get this article into the layout of our articles on dai-dai and maka-dai-dai shogi. Doing that would also entail correcting this problem. Of course, it's also the start of 2022 now and I still haven't done it. My apologies, even if there's an obvious reason why I haven't. :( Maybe when I can kill some hours... Anyway, the fact that it's basically a combination of dai-dai and maka-dai-dai should make it a bit faster, when I actually can stomach enough courage and free time to start. Double sharp ( talk) 12:30, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Ah, I overlooked an argument. Under Japanese Wikipedia rules, the hook-moving pieces all have to demote to Gold on capture, and you can't even get the Hook Mover back because the Poisonous Snake also demotes to Gold. Maybe it's lack of imagination, but I can't see how you're going to ever checkmate an Emperor without them. :) Double sharp ( talk) 09:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
The taishi (太子) is referred to as King in some places in the text, and Prince in others. (Prince seems like the more accurate translation, but King reflects the analogy to chess). I don't have a strong opinion as to which name is better, but I would like to see all the references changed to the same name, with perhaps a note that XXX is called YYY by other writers. -- ABehrens ( talk) 05:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)