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22:18, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I swear few months ago it was synthpop. Why change it?
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The edit warring needs to stop! Lets discuss the optimal description here.
My view is that there is a close association between Synth-pop and New Wave but that the AllMusic reference is utterly insufficient to establish one as a subgenre of the other. It is a short description with no named author. Much better references are needed if we are to make such a definite claim. If better references can be found then I will concede the point but they would need to be proper WP:RS sources.
Plausible arguments can be made that early Synth-pop pre-dates New Wave, although their heydays are closely related. The vagueness of the term New Wave makes this hard to sort out. The association is probably the best point to make in the lead. What we need to do is start the article with an uncontroversial statement and only delve into any controversy later on. Without researching better sources I'd be recommend something like this:
"Synth-pop (short for synthesizer pop;[3] also called techno-pop[4][5]) is a genre of pop music that became prominent in the late 1970s and was closely associated with new wave music."
Of course, we need better references and if those guide us to something different then that is where we should go.
If there really is a radically different definition of the terms in the US and the UK then we need to reference this properly. We also need to remember that other countries exist and might have views on the matter too. Personally, I suspect that this is really just a difference of emphasis, not a fundamental difference in definition. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 18:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Oh, and speaking of other countries, the Wikipedia articles in other languages might be worth looking at. The German one does not mention new wave in its lead while the French one does but not as prominently as in our article and does not claim it as a sub-genre. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 18:58, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I think they are synonym! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moonsun147258 ( talk • contribs) 00:32, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
And Allmusic has clearly mentioned synthpop is subgenre of new wave, But FreakyBoy hasn't given any reliable sources! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.193.18.34 ( talk) 07:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps, neither source should be used in that case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreakyBoy ( talk • contribs) 13:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
If "Kraftwerk" were the first to play a Synth Pop, Germany should to be the ONLY pionner of this music genre. Yellow Magic Orchestra only copied the European idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WesternUniverse ( talk • contribs) 22:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
When did synthpop originate? The late 1960's or 1977-80, as is currently listed in the article? If you listen to Popcorn by Gershon Kingsly from 1969 and Hot Butter in 1972, and Dream Weaver and Love is Alive, both by Gary Wright, they are all synthpop. Let's also not forget the Clockwork Orange soundtrack which is also all synth music. This concludes it originated in the late 1960's in a basic form, but did not adopt all of its elements to make it complete until the late 1970's when new wave burst onto the scene. I edited the years to say Late 1960's-Early 80's (to account for synthpop's development during that timeframe), along with the aforementioned songs as being the reason for changing it, but someone reverted it saying those songs don't constitute synthpop and that the years are correct along with a Rolling Stone source. While they are certainly credible, I feel they don't capture synthpop's origins in the aforementioned songs. So, what do you guys think? Should we keep the years at 1977-80, or should we change it to Late 1960's-Early 80's to account for those aforementioned songs and the arrival of new wave? Heck, on the synthrock page, it says that has been around since the late 1960's, however, in actuality, that is not true. People are probably conflating synthrock and progressive rock and saying progressive rock was originally termed for music that would be otherwise termed synthrock, however, progressive rock synthesizers were used to give the song's a classical/symphonic feel, and not in the way they would be following synthpop's dominance. So, we can safely say synthpop originated in the late 1960's as there is credible evidence to that, however, there is no credible evidence that a rock band in the late 1960's-1970's used a synthesizer outside of the progressive rock/orchestra rock setting. Plus, the synthrock article is very bare bones that it would almost make better sense to merge it here with a section on it along with synthpunk, rather than it having its own article, especially if it's not as in-depth as this one is. I tried making it more in-depth by including rock bands that used a synthesizer prominently to give it a head start, but it was reverted as unsourced. Moline1 ( talk) 02:29, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
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please change ((Dutch)) to ((Netherlands|Dutch)) 98.239.227.65 ( talk) 13:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Very biased article with poor research and musical understanding. First of all, instrumental synthpop in Europe predates the British origin starting in about 1978 however due to language barrier and less competitive music industry European acts especially French and Belgian aren't as well know but musically they are the originators. Instrumental pop of Fredric Mercier, Jacno, Telex, vocal pop of Lio and one song of Plastic Bertrand from 1978 which can be considered first vocal synthpop song are neglected. Secondly synthpop didn't influence dance music to a great extent, space, italo and electronic disco along with hi NRG are the direct progenitors of EDM, house, techno and trance and there are many pre 1979 examples of instrumental synth/space disco, dance and hi NRG having the important features of these genres. The articles seems to portray a very layman narrative of music with no deep insight. Sharjeel.k126 ( talk) 16:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
On wiki there are articles for British jazz, British hip hop, British soul, British rock music, British rock and roll, Britpop, British rhythm and blues, British pop music and British popular music...now if there are so many differences between what the terms new wave and synthpop mean to people in the UK and USA, shouldn't there be articles about these popular genres viewed only from a British perspective, maybe called British punk and new wave and British synthpop (with obviously no hyphens used). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.173.247 ( talk) 15:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Is Nick Kamen's Each Time You Break My Heart (his last hit according to the introduction today on Pick of the Pops [1]) really synth-pop? The reviewer for the record said that the Dance mix was "light synth-pop"...but this is not the main single, which just sound like some bloke singing Madonna. However Madonna's albums from the period come under the following genres...
...so there must be a genre discription missing. Note: "I Promised Myself" sounds like an Erasure B-side so that's alright (though its listed under Synth-pop and pop rock) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.238.174 ( talk) 14:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
"This confusion was further compounded in the ‘80s as early synthpop was incorporated into a larger melting pot of commercial music that blended the characteristics of synthpop and new wave with funk, soul, hip-hop, and a high number of other styles. As the genres evolved into newer and increasingly unrelated styles, a lack of familiarity with synthpop’s origins and defining characteristics caused the synthpop label to be passed along indecisively to new genres. The Pointer Sisters’ 1984 album Break Out is a great example of this melting pot of music ideas, and it contains previously unrelated genre elements like R&B and synthpop alongside one another on the very same songs. Despite the influences of synthpop on the album, however, none of the entries on Break Out can be properly classified within the genre, and it is more accurate to refer to it as “‘80s commercial pop” or simply “‘80s pop.”
References
With reference to Why Synthwave Isn’t Synthpop (And Why It Matters) by Preston Avery (Ironskullet June 12, 2019) and the synthpop/synthwave genre map [1] shouldn't the 'See Also' section be as follows...
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Change: "In 1971 the British movie A Clockwork Orange was released with a synth soundtrack by American Wendy Carlos. It was the first time many in the United Kingdom had heard electronic music."
To:
"Excepting the theme of the popular show Doctor Who, with an electronic theme song executed by Delia Derbyshire in 1963, and heard by millions of Britons every Saturday evening, the 1971 British movie A Clockwork Orange, with a synth soundtrack by American Wendy Carlos was the first time many in the United Kingdom had heard electronic music score."
[1] 65.51.193.109 ( talk) 17:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
References
Is “Synth-pop” really the correct label for this genre? First of all, “pop” is not a genre; pop is short for popular: in the 20s pop was Dixieland jazz, in the 30s it was swing, in the 50s it was rock and roll, doo-wop, and R&B - long story sort: not a genre. So stop using the term pop to describe a “style” of music. When this stuff came out in the 70s and 80s everyone called it Techno. As far as I’m concerned it’s still Techno, and that’s what we should be calling it now - Techno 47.185.231.204 ( talk) 03:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
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90.230.43.85 ( talk) 16:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC) I would like too edit if that's ok
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I recently learned that Synth-pop is a subgenre of New wave, so I put it under the genre in the templates for Rock music and Post-disco. Could someone put those templates on this page? 47.36.25.163 ( talk) 23:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
This line is unacceptable and misleading for an encyclopedic reference such as Wikipedia. One or two sources do not and cannot firmly establish one genre as the "subgenre" of another, when the vast majority of scholarship on the genre of music in question (synthpop) treat it as an independent form within popular music. To give just one example, reference no. 7 on the main article page gives as a "working definition of synth pop", "popular songs with prominent synthesizer instrumentation." Elsewhere in the same reference, the piece notes that "for a time in the early 1980s, synth pop was mainstream electronic dance music". Does that not make synthpop also a "subgenre" of EDM? Or is not new wave therefore an EDM subgenre, since we are to believe that its own subgenre, synthpop, is a form of EDM? Nowhere is this mentioned on the page for electronic dance music, and rightly so - this is one source's opinion, not the consensus viewpoint. AllMusic may be a widely used source on Wikipedia, but it alone does not override all other scholarship. The other source used as "evidence" of synthpop's subgenre status does not actually say anything about it being a subgenre, but merely notes that "myriad synthesizer-pop bands" as well as "power-pop groups" were included under the new wave "umbrella". Power pop is not recognized as a "subgenre" of new wave by Wikipedia, as it ought not to be since this article says nothing of the sort. Likewise, it merely notes that many synth-pop bands also were considered new wave, but does not in any way state that synthpop exists solely as a form of new wave music.
To say that synthpop is merely a "subgenre of new wave music" is therefore reductive, anachronistic, and inaccurate. While every source describes synthpop as a form of popular music, many don't mention new wave at all. Wikipedia itself describes it as a "derivative form" of various genres (new wave, disco, etc.) and a "distinct genre" rather than a "subgenre" of any one genre, besides the one instance in the lead on this page, and later on when it notes that "In the US, [...] synth-pop is considered a subgenre of new wave". America is not the world, and our encyclopedia should not be regionally biased in this manner. The German page for synth-pop does not mention new wave at all in its lead and the French one does not claim it as a subgenre, so why should the English page be so uniquely wrongheaded?
Yet this is evidently a contentious issue, and there are discussions going back years on the talk page to prove it. The mere fact that no consensus exists ought to be enough to demonstrate that the current state of this page is unacceptable. The page has not always described synth-pop as a "subgenre of new wave music"; but was edited to say that some years ago (again without a consensus), so the onus is as much on those who make that argument as it is on my end. In fact, it bears heavier on the other side, for what I am arguing is already the consensus opinion of scholarship on this issue. Indeed, not only do the years of talk page disputes prove the lack of consensus on establishing synthpop as a "subgenre" of new wave; but so do the sources themselves used in the article, such as reference no. 2, which states that "What separated synth-pop from, say pop music with synths—or categories such as new wave—remained (and remains) a point of contention". What I think is not a point of contention, however, is that synthpop is a genre of popular music. On that we should be able to form a consensus. Janglyguitars ( talk) 02:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Our term synthpop, while not 'value-free', can be employed to transcend many of the other terms' limitations. In particular, it can cover the wide terrain between groups such as Adam and the Ants, who made little use of synthesiser technology but whose post-punk style was both resolutely pop and populist, and Cabaret Voltaire, who used synthesiser technology in an avant-garde 'industrial' style (and therefore achieved high credibility and low sales). Somewhere between the two is New Order, who despite massive success with their single Blue Monday, never fully capitalised on their popularity, at least partly due to the esoteric business practices of their label Factory Records.
This is clearly a term with very broad usage. Also, since this is a chapter in the book "Popular Music Genres: An Introduction" (and Phil Oakey's face appears right above the title on the cover), I'd encourage you to use this source to replace the badly supported AllMusic reference for "subgenre of new wave" with "genre of popular music". This chapter, which is far more detailed than the AllMusic summary (as are the other sources I cited above, like Simon Reynolds' synthpop history piece which makes no mention of 'new wave'), quite directly contrasts synthpop with new wave, almost framing them as opposites:
The new decade saw elements of youth culture self-consciouslyembrace the new consumerism in order to gain success. 'Style' became a transcending signifier, aided by the shift in music journalism from the weekly 'inkies' (New Musical Express, Sounds, Melody Maker) to the recently established fortnightly or monthly 'glossies' (The Face, i-D, Smash Hits). Concepts such as design, marketing and image became central to the star-making machinery. There was nothing altogether new in this process, but they now became more overt, blatant and significant elements. After the monochrome blacks and greys of punk/new wave, synthpop was promoted by a youth media interested in people who wanted to be pop stars, such as Boy George and Adam Ant, and who 'looked good in colour: Numan ... Toyah' (Rimmer 1985: 19). [emphasis added]
As is clear to anyone who looks at the sources, calling synthpop a "subgenre of new wave" is just wrong; the author even cites a contemporary source (Dave Rimmer) from 1985. Since I was wrongly blocked from editing this page, you should go ahead and replace the AllMusic source in the body (while leaving it in the infobox) with this source and change "subgenre of new wave" to "genre of popular music". I've made a citation for you as well, so it should be pretty easy. [1] Thanks for helping out FreakyBoy :) Janglyguitars ( talk) 05:13, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
References
I find this to be incorrect in that it has no basis. The lyrics are not about an androgynous person,so why are the vocals androgynous? If it is because the voice of the _woman is not high pitched or considered deep for a _woman, this is an unintelligible insignificant opinion/observation that I don’t believe is relevant to the description. just say she has a deep voice, it has nothing to do with androgyny. Deedssky ( talk) 19:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
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SilkTork (
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22:18, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I swear few months ago it was synthpop. Why change it?
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The edit warring needs to stop! Lets discuss the optimal description here.
My view is that there is a close association between Synth-pop and New Wave but that the AllMusic reference is utterly insufficient to establish one as a subgenre of the other. It is a short description with no named author. Much better references are needed if we are to make such a definite claim. If better references can be found then I will concede the point but they would need to be proper WP:RS sources.
Plausible arguments can be made that early Synth-pop pre-dates New Wave, although their heydays are closely related. The vagueness of the term New Wave makes this hard to sort out. The association is probably the best point to make in the lead. What we need to do is start the article with an uncontroversial statement and only delve into any controversy later on. Without researching better sources I'd be recommend something like this:
"Synth-pop (short for synthesizer pop;[3] also called techno-pop[4][5]) is a genre of pop music that became prominent in the late 1970s and was closely associated with new wave music."
Of course, we need better references and if those guide us to something different then that is where we should go.
If there really is a radically different definition of the terms in the US and the UK then we need to reference this properly. We also need to remember that other countries exist and might have views on the matter too. Personally, I suspect that this is really just a difference of emphasis, not a fundamental difference in definition. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 18:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Oh, and speaking of other countries, the Wikipedia articles in other languages might be worth looking at. The German one does not mention new wave in its lead while the French one does but not as prominently as in our article and does not claim it as a sub-genre. -- DanielRigal ( talk) 18:58, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I think they are synonym! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moonsun147258 ( talk • contribs) 00:32, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
And Allmusic has clearly mentioned synthpop is subgenre of new wave, But FreakyBoy hasn't given any reliable sources! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.193.18.34 ( talk) 07:37, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps, neither source should be used in that case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreakyBoy ( talk • contribs) 13:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
If "Kraftwerk" were the first to play a Synth Pop, Germany should to be the ONLY pionner of this music genre. Yellow Magic Orchestra only copied the European idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WesternUniverse ( talk • contribs) 22:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
When did synthpop originate? The late 1960's or 1977-80, as is currently listed in the article? If you listen to Popcorn by Gershon Kingsly from 1969 and Hot Butter in 1972, and Dream Weaver and Love is Alive, both by Gary Wright, they are all synthpop. Let's also not forget the Clockwork Orange soundtrack which is also all synth music. This concludes it originated in the late 1960's in a basic form, but did not adopt all of its elements to make it complete until the late 1970's when new wave burst onto the scene. I edited the years to say Late 1960's-Early 80's (to account for synthpop's development during that timeframe), along with the aforementioned songs as being the reason for changing it, but someone reverted it saying those songs don't constitute synthpop and that the years are correct along with a Rolling Stone source. While they are certainly credible, I feel they don't capture synthpop's origins in the aforementioned songs. So, what do you guys think? Should we keep the years at 1977-80, or should we change it to Late 1960's-Early 80's to account for those aforementioned songs and the arrival of new wave? Heck, on the synthrock page, it says that has been around since the late 1960's, however, in actuality, that is not true. People are probably conflating synthrock and progressive rock and saying progressive rock was originally termed for music that would be otherwise termed synthrock, however, progressive rock synthesizers were used to give the song's a classical/symphonic feel, and not in the way they would be following synthpop's dominance. So, we can safely say synthpop originated in the late 1960's as there is credible evidence to that, however, there is no credible evidence that a rock band in the late 1960's-1970's used a synthesizer outside of the progressive rock/orchestra rock setting. Plus, the synthrock article is very bare bones that it would almost make better sense to merge it here with a section on it along with synthpunk, rather than it having its own article, especially if it's not as in-depth as this one is. I tried making it more in-depth by including rock bands that used a synthesizer prominently to give it a head start, but it was reverted as unsourced. Moline1 ( talk) 02:29, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
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please change ((Dutch)) to ((Netherlands|Dutch)) 98.239.227.65 ( talk) 13:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
Very biased article with poor research and musical understanding. First of all, instrumental synthpop in Europe predates the British origin starting in about 1978 however due to language barrier and less competitive music industry European acts especially French and Belgian aren't as well know but musically they are the originators. Instrumental pop of Fredric Mercier, Jacno, Telex, vocal pop of Lio and one song of Plastic Bertrand from 1978 which can be considered first vocal synthpop song are neglected. Secondly synthpop didn't influence dance music to a great extent, space, italo and electronic disco along with hi NRG are the direct progenitors of EDM, house, techno and trance and there are many pre 1979 examples of instrumental synth/space disco, dance and hi NRG having the important features of these genres. The articles seems to portray a very layman narrative of music with no deep insight. Sharjeel.k126 ( talk) 16:25, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
On wiki there are articles for British jazz, British hip hop, British soul, British rock music, British rock and roll, Britpop, British rhythm and blues, British pop music and British popular music...now if there are so many differences between what the terms new wave and synthpop mean to people in the UK and USA, shouldn't there be articles about these popular genres viewed only from a British perspective, maybe called British punk and new wave and British synthpop (with obviously no hyphens used). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.173.247 ( talk) 15:32, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
Is Nick Kamen's Each Time You Break My Heart (his last hit according to the introduction today on Pick of the Pops [1]) really synth-pop? The reviewer for the record said that the Dance mix was "light synth-pop"...but this is not the main single, which just sound like some bloke singing Madonna. However Madonna's albums from the period come under the following genres...
...so there must be a genre discription missing. Note: "I Promised Myself" sounds like an Erasure B-side so that's alright (though its listed under Synth-pop and pop rock) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.238.174 ( talk) 14:57, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
"This confusion was further compounded in the ‘80s as early synthpop was incorporated into a larger melting pot of commercial music that blended the characteristics of synthpop and new wave with funk, soul, hip-hop, and a high number of other styles. As the genres evolved into newer and increasingly unrelated styles, a lack of familiarity with synthpop’s origins and defining characteristics caused the synthpop label to be passed along indecisively to new genres. The Pointer Sisters’ 1984 album Break Out is a great example of this melting pot of music ideas, and it contains previously unrelated genre elements like R&B and synthpop alongside one another on the very same songs. Despite the influences of synthpop on the album, however, none of the entries on Break Out can be properly classified within the genre, and it is more accurate to refer to it as “‘80s commercial pop” or simply “‘80s pop.”
References
With reference to Why Synthwave Isn’t Synthpop (And Why It Matters) by Preston Avery (Ironskullet June 12, 2019) and the synthpop/synthwave genre map [1] shouldn't the 'See Also' section be as follows...
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Change: "In 1971 the British movie A Clockwork Orange was released with a synth soundtrack by American Wendy Carlos. It was the first time many in the United Kingdom had heard electronic music."
To:
"Excepting the theme of the popular show Doctor Who, with an electronic theme song executed by Delia Derbyshire in 1963, and heard by millions of Britons every Saturday evening, the 1971 British movie A Clockwork Orange, with a synth soundtrack by American Wendy Carlos was the first time many in the United Kingdom had heard electronic music score."
[1] 65.51.193.109 ( talk) 17:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
References
Is “Synth-pop” really the correct label for this genre? First of all, “pop” is not a genre; pop is short for popular: in the 20s pop was Dixieland jazz, in the 30s it was swing, in the 50s it was rock and roll, doo-wop, and R&B - long story sort: not a genre. So stop using the term pop to describe a “style” of music. When this stuff came out in the 70s and 80s everyone called it Techno. As far as I’m concerned it’s still Techno, and that’s what we should be calling it now - Techno 47.185.231.204 ( talk) 03:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
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90.230.43.85 ( talk) 16:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC) I would like too edit if that's ok
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I recently learned that Synth-pop is a subgenre of New wave, so I put it under the genre in the templates for Rock music and Post-disco. Could someone put those templates on this page? 47.36.25.163 ( talk) 23:00, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
This line is unacceptable and misleading for an encyclopedic reference such as Wikipedia. One or two sources do not and cannot firmly establish one genre as the "subgenre" of another, when the vast majority of scholarship on the genre of music in question (synthpop) treat it as an independent form within popular music. To give just one example, reference no. 7 on the main article page gives as a "working definition of synth pop", "popular songs with prominent synthesizer instrumentation." Elsewhere in the same reference, the piece notes that "for a time in the early 1980s, synth pop was mainstream electronic dance music". Does that not make synthpop also a "subgenre" of EDM? Or is not new wave therefore an EDM subgenre, since we are to believe that its own subgenre, synthpop, is a form of EDM? Nowhere is this mentioned on the page for electronic dance music, and rightly so - this is one source's opinion, not the consensus viewpoint. AllMusic may be a widely used source on Wikipedia, but it alone does not override all other scholarship. The other source used as "evidence" of synthpop's subgenre status does not actually say anything about it being a subgenre, but merely notes that "myriad synthesizer-pop bands" as well as "power-pop groups" were included under the new wave "umbrella". Power pop is not recognized as a "subgenre" of new wave by Wikipedia, as it ought not to be since this article says nothing of the sort. Likewise, it merely notes that many synth-pop bands also were considered new wave, but does not in any way state that synthpop exists solely as a form of new wave music.
To say that synthpop is merely a "subgenre of new wave music" is therefore reductive, anachronistic, and inaccurate. While every source describes synthpop as a form of popular music, many don't mention new wave at all. Wikipedia itself describes it as a "derivative form" of various genres (new wave, disco, etc.) and a "distinct genre" rather than a "subgenre" of any one genre, besides the one instance in the lead on this page, and later on when it notes that "In the US, [...] synth-pop is considered a subgenre of new wave". America is not the world, and our encyclopedia should not be regionally biased in this manner. The German page for synth-pop does not mention new wave at all in its lead and the French one does not claim it as a subgenre, so why should the English page be so uniquely wrongheaded?
Yet this is evidently a contentious issue, and there are discussions going back years on the talk page to prove it. The mere fact that no consensus exists ought to be enough to demonstrate that the current state of this page is unacceptable. The page has not always described synth-pop as a "subgenre of new wave music"; but was edited to say that some years ago (again without a consensus), so the onus is as much on those who make that argument as it is on my end. In fact, it bears heavier on the other side, for what I am arguing is already the consensus opinion of scholarship on this issue. Indeed, not only do the years of talk page disputes prove the lack of consensus on establishing synthpop as a "subgenre" of new wave; but so do the sources themselves used in the article, such as reference no. 2, which states that "What separated synth-pop from, say pop music with synths—or categories such as new wave—remained (and remains) a point of contention". What I think is not a point of contention, however, is that synthpop is a genre of popular music. On that we should be able to form a consensus. Janglyguitars ( talk) 02:55, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Our term synthpop, while not 'value-free', can be employed to transcend many of the other terms' limitations. In particular, it can cover the wide terrain between groups such as Adam and the Ants, who made little use of synthesiser technology but whose post-punk style was both resolutely pop and populist, and Cabaret Voltaire, who used synthesiser technology in an avant-garde 'industrial' style (and therefore achieved high credibility and low sales). Somewhere between the two is New Order, who despite massive success with their single Blue Monday, never fully capitalised on their popularity, at least partly due to the esoteric business practices of their label Factory Records.
This is clearly a term with very broad usage. Also, since this is a chapter in the book "Popular Music Genres: An Introduction" (and Phil Oakey's face appears right above the title on the cover), I'd encourage you to use this source to replace the badly supported AllMusic reference for "subgenre of new wave" with "genre of popular music". This chapter, which is far more detailed than the AllMusic summary (as are the other sources I cited above, like Simon Reynolds' synthpop history piece which makes no mention of 'new wave'), quite directly contrasts synthpop with new wave, almost framing them as opposites:
The new decade saw elements of youth culture self-consciouslyembrace the new consumerism in order to gain success. 'Style' became a transcending signifier, aided by the shift in music journalism from the weekly 'inkies' (New Musical Express, Sounds, Melody Maker) to the recently established fortnightly or monthly 'glossies' (The Face, i-D, Smash Hits). Concepts such as design, marketing and image became central to the star-making machinery. There was nothing altogether new in this process, but they now became more overt, blatant and significant elements. After the monochrome blacks and greys of punk/new wave, synthpop was promoted by a youth media interested in people who wanted to be pop stars, such as Boy George and Adam Ant, and who 'looked good in colour: Numan ... Toyah' (Rimmer 1985: 19). [emphasis added]
As is clear to anyone who looks at the sources, calling synthpop a "subgenre of new wave" is just wrong; the author even cites a contemporary source (Dave Rimmer) from 1985. Since I was wrongly blocked from editing this page, you should go ahead and replace the AllMusic source in the body (while leaving it in the infobox) with this source and change "subgenre of new wave" to "genre of popular music". I've made a citation for you as well, so it should be pretty easy. [1] Thanks for helping out FreakyBoy :) Janglyguitars ( talk) 05:13, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
References
I find this to be incorrect in that it has no basis. The lyrics are not about an androgynous person,so why are the vocals androgynous? If it is because the voice of the _woman is not high pitched or considered deep for a _woman, this is an unintelligible insignificant opinion/observation that I don’t believe is relevant to the description. just say she has a deep voice, it has nothing to do with androgyny. Deedssky ( talk) 19:20, 14 May 2024 (UTC)