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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 10:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone have pictures/maps of how this developed?
-- T.woelk ( talk) 10:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
-- T.woelk ( talk) 12:46, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Some scholars like Oppenheimer locate the origin of the Austronesian languages in Sundaland and its upper regions. [...] Genetic research reported in 2008 indicates that the islands which are the remnants of Sundaland were likely populated as early as 50,000 years ago, contrary to a previous hypothesis that they were populated as late as 10,000 years ago from Taiwan.
This paragraph is so confused that I don't know where to begin. Obviously Oppenheimer is generally clueless about linguistics and history, not only when it comes to Great Britain, because again, lonely in the field, he locates the urheimat of Austronesian in Southeast Asia, while a "broad consensus" (taken from the quote under Austronesian languages#Homeland) accepts Taiwan. But he is a geneticist (i. e., a real scientist who can actually handle numbers, calculations and statistics), that's why he's a superior authority on linguistic urheimaten, I suppose, and all the linguists (lowly humanities academics who do not have hard, tangible facts to boast with, only words, texts and blather) who disagree and their reasons are not worth to be cited (yeah, I'm being sarcastic and polemical here).
The second sentence construes a controversy (using an incompetent and thus irrelevant source) that frankly doesn't exist. It's like saying that the English migration to North America cannot have taken place as late as 300 years ago, because the area was populated many millennia earlier. Duh! The English migration is a much later spread. In both cases, the former ethnic layer is still extant and thus openly in evidence, in plain sight. The "Negrito" populations sprinkled throughout Southeast Asia (together with the Papuans), who partly have even retained their own, obviously non-Austronesian languages, have long been recognised as descendants of the first wave(s) of H. sapiens sapiens migration to Southeast Asia. The "Out of Taiwan" hypothesis only concerns a much more recent spread, the one associated with the Austronesian languages, not the original peopling of the area. The same glaring misunderstanding of the hypothesis is actually found in other articles, too, and apparently traceable to Oppenheimer in general. There is no contradiction between the migrations roughly 50,000 years ago (which have long been generally accepted) and the Austronesian migration out of Taiwan (which, by the way, had to cross seas that the ancestors of the "Negrito" populations could still pass by migrating along coasts, as the land bridges were still there). By the way, the source actually says 4,000 years ago! But the beginning of the spread of Austronesian is usually placed at 6,000 BP, i. e. about 4,000 BC, so neither figure is correct. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 22:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Kortoso ( talk) 21:46, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I plan to add some information to the history section. I will focus on adding recent research on how forest extent has changed throughout time. This will likely be a separate subsection. I may also add some research about how the long-term environmental history of Sundaland has affected biodiversity in the region; it is currently only briefly touched on, and there is a lot of recent work on the topic. Another minor area of work will be adding some of the information that is currently in the Sunda Shelf article to the Sundaland article. The Sunda Shelf Talk page includes discussion of combining the two articles, but the consensus was to keep them separate.
Preliminary sources (still need to figure out how to get Wikipedia to put these as references only, not citations):
Bird, M. I., D. Taylor, and C. Hunt. 2005. Palaeoenvironments of insular Southeast Asia during the Last Glacial Period: a savanna corridor in Sundaland? Quaternary Science Reviews 24:2228–2242.
Cannon, C. H., R. J. Morley, and A. B. G. Bush. 2009. The current refugial rainforests of Sundaland are unrepresentative of their biogeographic past and highly vulnerable to disturbance. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 106:11188–11193.
De Bruyn, M., B. Stelbrink, R. J. Morley, R. Hall, G. R. Carvalho, C. H. Cannon, G. Van Den Bergh, E. Meijaard, I. Metcalfe, L. Boitani, L. Maiorano, R. Shoup, and T. Von Rintelen. 2014. Borneo and Indochina are Major Evolutionary Hotspots for Southeast Asian Biodiversity. Systematic Biology 63:879–901.
Leite, Y. L. R., L. P. Costa, A. Carolina, R. G. Rocha, H. Batalha-filho, and A. C. Bastos. 2016. Neotropical forest expansion during the last glacial period challenges refuge hypothesis. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 113:1008–1013.
Metcalfe, I. 2011. Tectonic Framework and Phanerozoic Evolution of Sundaland. Gondwana Research 19:3–21.
Pelejero, C., M. Kienast, L. Wang, and J. O. Grimalt. 1999. The flooding of Sundaland during the last deglaciation : imprints in hemipelagic sediments from the southern South China Sea 171:661–671.
Raes, N., C. H. Cannon, R. J. Hijmans, T. Piessens, L. G. Saw, P. C. van Welzen, and J. W. F. Slik. 2014. Historical distribution of Sundaland’s Dipterocarp rainforests at Quaternary glacial maxima. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 111:16790–5.
Russell, J. M., H. Vogel, B. L. Konecky, S. Bijaksana, Y. Huang, M. Melles, N. Wattrus, K. Costa, and J. W. King. 2014. Glacial forcing of central Indonesian hydroclimate since 60,000 y B.P. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 111:5100–5105.
Slik, J. W. F., S. Aiba, M. Bastian, F. Q. Brearley, C. H. Cannon, and K. A. O. Eichhorn. 2011. Soils on Exposed Sunda Shelf Shaped Biogeographic Patterns in the Equatorial Forests of Southeast Asia. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 108:12343–12347.
Tougard, C., and S. Montuire. 2006. Pleistocene paleoenvironmental reconstructions and mammalian evolution in South-East Asia : focus on fossil faunas from Thailand. Quaternary Science Reviews 25:126–141.
Wurster, C. M., M. I. Bird, I. D. Bull, F. Creed, C. Bryant, J. a J. Dungait, and V. Paz. 2010. Forest contraction in north equatorial Southeast Asia during the Last Glacial Period. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 107:15508–15511.
Wurster, C. M., H. Rifai, J. Haig, J. Titin, G. Jacobsen, and M. Bird. 2017. Stable isotope composition of cave guano from eastern Borneo reveals tropical environments over the past 15 , 000 cal yr BP. Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology 473:73–81. SkyBlueWater ( talk) 06:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
The debate about whether migrants from Taiwan settled Sundaland during the Holocene, or local populations dispersed northward due to sea level rise, or whatever, does not relate to the first occupation of the area by modern humans, which everyone agrees occurred tens of thousands of years earlier. 70.77.37.23 ( talk) 14:18, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
SkyBlueWater. Peer reviewers:
Sylerb,
Dtolson1.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 10:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Does anyone have pictures/maps of how this developed?
-- T.woelk ( talk) 10:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
-- T.woelk ( talk) 12:46, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Some scholars like Oppenheimer locate the origin of the Austronesian languages in Sundaland and its upper regions. [...] Genetic research reported in 2008 indicates that the islands which are the remnants of Sundaland were likely populated as early as 50,000 years ago, contrary to a previous hypothesis that they were populated as late as 10,000 years ago from Taiwan.
This paragraph is so confused that I don't know where to begin. Obviously Oppenheimer is generally clueless about linguistics and history, not only when it comes to Great Britain, because again, lonely in the field, he locates the urheimat of Austronesian in Southeast Asia, while a "broad consensus" (taken from the quote under Austronesian languages#Homeland) accepts Taiwan. But he is a geneticist (i. e., a real scientist who can actually handle numbers, calculations and statistics), that's why he's a superior authority on linguistic urheimaten, I suppose, and all the linguists (lowly humanities academics who do not have hard, tangible facts to boast with, only words, texts and blather) who disagree and their reasons are not worth to be cited (yeah, I'm being sarcastic and polemical here).
The second sentence construes a controversy (using an incompetent and thus irrelevant source) that frankly doesn't exist. It's like saying that the English migration to North America cannot have taken place as late as 300 years ago, because the area was populated many millennia earlier. Duh! The English migration is a much later spread. In both cases, the former ethnic layer is still extant and thus openly in evidence, in plain sight. The "Negrito" populations sprinkled throughout Southeast Asia (together with the Papuans), who partly have even retained their own, obviously non-Austronesian languages, have long been recognised as descendants of the first wave(s) of H. sapiens sapiens migration to Southeast Asia. The "Out of Taiwan" hypothesis only concerns a much more recent spread, the one associated with the Austronesian languages, not the original peopling of the area. The same glaring misunderstanding of the hypothesis is actually found in other articles, too, and apparently traceable to Oppenheimer in general. There is no contradiction between the migrations roughly 50,000 years ago (which have long been generally accepted) and the Austronesian migration out of Taiwan (which, by the way, had to cross seas that the ancestors of the "Negrito" populations could still pass by migrating along coasts, as the land bridges were still there). By the way, the source actually says 4,000 years ago! But the beginning of the spread of Austronesian is usually placed at 6,000 BP, i. e. about 4,000 BC, so neither figure is correct. -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 22:58, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Kortoso ( talk) 21:46, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
I plan to add some information to the history section. I will focus on adding recent research on how forest extent has changed throughout time. This will likely be a separate subsection. I may also add some research about how the long-term environmental history of Sundaland has affected biodiversity in the region; it is currently only briefly touched on, and there is a lot of recent work on the topic. Another minor area of work will be adding some of the information that is currently in the Sunda Shelf article to the Sundaland article. The Sunda Shelf Talk page includes discussion of combining the two articles, but the consensus was to keep them separate.
Preliminary sources (still need to figure out how to get Wikipedia to put these as references only, not citations):
Bird, M. I., D. Taylor, and C. Hunt. 2005. Palaeoenvironments of insular Southeast Asia during the Last Glacial Period: a savanna corridor in Sundaland? Quaternary Science Reviews 24:2228–2242.
Cannon, C. H., R. J. Morley, and A. B. G. Bush. 2009. The current refugial rainforests of Sundaland are unrepresentative of their biogeographic past and highly vulnerable to disturbance. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 106:11188–11193.
De Bruyn, M., B. Stelbrink, R. J. Morley, R. Hall, G. R. Carvalho, C. H. Cannon, G. Van Den Bergh, E. Meijaard, I. Metcalfe, L. Boitani, L. Maiorano, R. Shoup, and T. Von Rintelen. 2014. Borneo and Indochina are Major Evolutionary Hotspots for Southeast Asian Biodiversity. Systematic Biology 63:879–901.
Leite, Y. L. R., L. P. Costa, A. Carolina, R. G. Rocha, H. Batalha-filho, and A. C. Bastos. 2016. Neotropical forest expansion during the last glacial period challenges refuge hypothesis. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 113:1008–1013.
Metcalfe, I. 2011. Tectonic Framework and Phanerozoic Evolution of Sundaland. Gondwana Research 19:3–21.
Pelejero, C., M. Kienast, L. Wang, and J. O. Grimalt. 1999. The flooding of Sundaland during the last deglaciation : imprints in hemipelagic sediments from the southern South China Sea 171:661–671.
Raes, N., C. H. Cannon, R. J. Hijmans, T. Piessens, L. G. Saw, P. C. van Welzen, and J. W. F. Slik. 2014. Historical distribution of Sundaland’s Dipterocarp rainforests at Quaternary glacial maxima. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 111:16790–5.
Russell, J. M., H. Vogel, B. L. Konecky, S. Bijaksana, Y. Huang, M. Melles, N. Wattrus, K. Costa, and J. W. King. 2014. Glacial forcing of central Indonesian hydroclimate since 60,000 y B.P. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 111:5100–5105.
Slik, J. W. F., S. Aiba, M. Bastian, F. Q. Brearley, C. H. Cannon, and K. A. O. Eichhorn. 2011. Soils on Exposed Sunda Shelf Shaped Biogeographic Patterns in the Equatorial Forests of Southeast Asia. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 108:12343–12347.
Tougard, C., and S. Montuire. 2006. Pleistocene paleoenvironmental reconstructions and mammalian evolution in South-East Asia : focus on fossil faunas from Thailand. Quaternary Science Reviews 25:126–141.
Wurster, C. M., M. I. Bird, I. D. Bull, F. Creed, C. Bryant, J. a J. Dungait, and V. Paz. 2010. Forest contraction in north equatorial Southeast Asia during the Last Glacial Period. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 107:15508–15511.
Wurster, C. M., H. Rifai, J. Haig, J. Titin, G. Jacobsen, and M. Bird. 2017. Stable isotope composition of cave guano from eastern Borneo reveals tropical environments over the past 15 , 000 cal yr BP. Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology 473:73–81. SkyBlueWater ( talk) 06:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
The debate about whether migrants from Taiwan settled Sundaland during the Holocene, or local populations dispersed northward due to sea level rise, or whatever, does not relate to the first occupation of the area by modern humans, which everyone agrees occurred tens of thousands of years earlier. 70.77.37.23 ( talk) 14:18, 11 April 2022 (UTC)