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We have a section on the "prevention" of suicide. There are a number of psychological techniques which may be useful. Thus these with be "psychological prevention methods" rather than "prevention treatments". Thus Psychological would be a better heading. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 14:14, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I cannot see any reason why failed suicide attempt is a separate, short, article. It should be merged into this article. – ukexpat ( talk) 14:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Disagree on merge. This article needs work but Failed_suicide_attempt is a separate subject than parasuicide, suicidal ideation, euthanasia and/or suicide. Simply put Correlation_does_not_imply_causation . If this article is merge it will be slowly deleted out of the suicide article as numerous merges articles have had happen across many subjects. This merge and the loss of information on separate subjects is one of wikipedia's problems. The article on suicide is large enough already. Multiple articles on suicide and related subjects have been deleted over the years. Merge and Purge is the great way to silence a subject you don't like here.There is no reason, the url isn't needed or confusing for multiple subjects. This article's briefness reflects on the low level of research and the poor understanding of suicide failures. Parasuicide is making a fake attempt when the goal isn't death, sometimes failed attempts get written up as parasuicidal behavior especially when the person is facing being held involuntarily against their will and/or medicated against their will. The right to die is another article that goes in to detail how volatile the opinions are on this subject matter. I vote to leave it un merge and for it to be worked on. Due to the great "citation needed" wimp out when you don't have facts to argue with the standards and regular results of people experiences on the subject. People who have failed attempts could add a lot of information but studies are on the subject are flawed because you have different groups, those who tried and are glad they failed,those that want out of the intervention to continue to completion the attempt, those who wished it would have worked. Just to name a few. Work is needed but that job isn't merging. 68.210.95.127 ( talk) 06:26, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
The complicated formatting in the sections Suicide#Classification and Suicide#Substance_abuse are not supported by WP:MOS and make the text in question much harder to edit as well as read. Will ask for further input but IMO should be returned to normal.-- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 00:59, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
A reader has suggested that the article ought to have a hat note which has links to suicide hotlines. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
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The Strain Theory of Suicide
An Article for Wikipedia
Jie Zhang, Ph.D.
Professor Jie Zhang, Ph.D., Department of Sociology, State University of New York College at Buffalo, <contact details redacted>
November 10, 2011
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Author Biography Jie Zhang, Ph.D. Dr. Zhang is professor of sociology at State University of New York College at Buffalo. His research interests include sociology of mental health, culture, and suicide. He has published extensively in such sociological, medical and psychological journals as Social Forces, Social Science and Medicine, American Journal of Psychiatry, Archives of Suicide Research, Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, Psychiatry Research, Psychological Medicine and Journal of Personality Assessment. The Strain Theory of Suicide The strain theory of suicide postulates that suicide is usually preceded by psychological strains. A strain can be a consequence of any of the four conflicts: differential values, aspiration and reality, relative deprivation, and lack of coping skills for a crisis. Psychological strains in the form of all the four sources have been tested supported with a sample of suicide notes in the United States and in rural China through psychological autopsy studies. The strain theory of suicide forms a challenge to the psychiatric model popular among the suicidologists in the world. In the United States, the factors most consistently associated with suicide, affecting over 90% of all people who die by suicide, are mental illness, substance use disorders (SUD) and alcohol use disorders (AUD). However, the fact that only a small proportion of persons with these disorders actually die by suicide and only about half of the Chinese suicides have been diagnosed with any mental problems (Phillips, Yang, Zhang, Wang, Ji, and Zhou 2002) raises important questions that challenge the psychiatric model of suicide (NIMH 2003). A psychiatric disorder may be neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for suicide. To identify suicide risk factors, it is imperative to look beyond the presence of a major psychiatric syndrome (Mann, Waternaux, Haas, and Malone 1999). Actually, the blend between psychiatric and social predictors of suicide is rare in suicide research. Sociological studies of suicide tend to overestimate the importance of social variables by failing to measure psychiatric disorders with such rigorous instrument as the SCID (the Structured Clinical Interview for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) (Spitzer, Williams, Gibbon, and First 1988). Durkheim’s (1951) classical theory of social integration and regulation explaining egoistic, altruistic, anomic, and fatalistic suicide is in theoretical and practical conflict with psychopathological theories prevalent in today’s. However, substantial numbers of suicides, East and West, are conducted by persons who appear to be in an un-anomic environment (Zhang and Jin 1998; Zhang 2000). Suicide rates and patterns vary greatly among different geographic areas and different racial and ethnic groups around the world, and the radical differences in demography of suicide reflect cultural influences. Society and culture play an enormous role in dictating how people respond to and view mental health and suicide, and cultural variables have a far-ranging impact on suicide. Therefore, suicide prevention requires an understanding of how suicide varies with social and cultural forces and how it relates to individual, group and contextual experiences (IOM 2002). In their theoretical work on anomie, deviance, and criminology, Durkheim (1951), Merton (1957) and Agnew (2006) have laid foundation for this strain theory of suicide. When the strains caused by frustrations are outwardly directed, deviance or crimes occur (Agnew 2006; Durkheim 1951; Merton 1957); when the strains are released inwardly, self-harm or suicide happens.While crime usually involves outward acts of violence with physical victims, suicide is an inward violence without other physical victims, and both could result from strain that has brought about negative emotions such as anger, depression, resentment, and dissatisfaction. However, the strains that precede suicidal behavior may not be only economically based as exemplified in Agnew’s three strains. There are other intellectual observations that help us conceptualize the current strain theory of suicide. Strain cannot be equivalent to simple pressure or stress. People may frequently have stress but not necessarily strain in their life time. A pressure or stress in daily life is a single variable phenomenon. When we say we have pressure at work, we mean that we have a lot of work to do, we have a deadline to meet, or we have stressful relations with co-workers or bosses. A strain is made up by at least two pressures or two variables, similar to the formation of cognitive dissonance. Examples include, at least, two differential cultural values, aspiration and reality, one’s own status and that of others, and a crisis and coping ability. As cognitive dissonance, strain is a psychological frustration or even suffering that one struggles to find a solution to reduce or do away with. But in truth, it is more serious, frustrating, and threatening than cognitive dissonance because major cultural value systems may be involved. The extreme solution for a strain is suicide. Figure 1 illustrates the proposed diagram for the relationship between strain and suicide. Figure 1: Psychological Strains and Suicide: A Theoretical Model There could be four types of strain that precede a suicide, and each can be derived from specific sources. A source of strain must consist of two, and at least two, conflicting social facts. If the two social facts are non-contradictory, there would be no strain. Strain Source 1: Differential Values When two conflicting social values or beliefs are competing in an individual’s daily life, the person experiences value strain. The two conflicting social facts are competing personal beliefs internalized in the person’s value system. A cult member may experience strain if the mainstream culture and the cult religion are both considered important in the cult member’s daily life. Other examples include the second generation of immigrants in the United States who have to abide by the ethnic culture rules enforced in the family while simultaneously adapting to the American culture with peers and school. In China, rural young women appreciate gender egalitarianism advocated by the communist government, but at the same time, they are trapped in cultural sexual discrimination as traditionally cultivated by Confucianism. Another example that might be found in developing countries is the differential values of traditional collectivism and modern individualism. When the two conflicting values are taken as equally important in a person’s daily life, the person experiences great strain. When one value is more important than the other, there is then little or no strain. Strain Source 2: Reality vs. Aspiration If there is a discrepancy between an individual’s aspiration or a high goal and the reality the person has to live with, the person experiences aspiration strain. The two conflicting social facts are one’s splendid ideal or goal and the reality that may prevent one from achieving it. An individual living in the United States expects to be very rich or at least moderately successful as other Americans do, but in reality the means to achieve the goal is not equally available to the person because of his/her social status or any other reasons. Aspirations or goals can be a college a person aims to get in, an ideal girl a boy wants to marry, and a political cause a person strives for, etc. If the reality is far from the aspiration, the person experiences strain. Another example might be from rural China. A young woman aspiring to equal opportunity and equal treatment may have to live within the traditional and Confucian reality, exemplified by her family and village, which interferes with that goal. The larger the discrepancy between aspiration and reality, the greater the strain will be. Strain Source 3: Relative Deprivation In the situation where an extremely economically poor individual realizes some other people of the same or similar background are leading a much better life, the person experiences deprivation strain. The two conflicting social facts are one’s own miserable life and the perceived richness of comparative others. A person living in absolute poverty, where there is no comparison with others, does not necessarily feel bad, miserable, or deprived. On the other hand, if the same poor person understands that other people like him/her live a better life, he or she may feel deprived because of these circumstances. In an economically polarized society where the rich and poor live geographically close to each other, people are more likely to feel this discrepancy. In today’s rural China, television, newspaper, magazines, and radio have brought home to rural youths how relatively affluent urban life is. Additionally, those young people who went to work in the cities (dagong) and returned to the village during holidays with luxury materials and exciting stories make the relative deprivation even more realistically perceived. Increased perception of deprivation indicates relatively greater strain for individuals. Strain Source 4: Deficient Coping Facing a life crisis, some individuals are not able to cope with it, and then they experience coping strain. The two conflicting social facts are life crisis and the appropriate coping capacity. All people who have experienced crises do not experience strain. A crisis may be a pressure or stress in daily life, and those individuals who are not able to cope with the crisis have strain. Such crises as loss of money, loss of status, loss of face, divorce, death of a loved one, etc. may lead to serious strain in the person who does not know how to cope with these negative life events. A high school boy who is constantly bullied and ridiculed by peers may experience great strain if he does not know how to deal with the situation. Likewise, a Chinese rural young woman who is frequently wronged by her mother-in-law may have strain if she is not psychologically ready to cope with a different situation by seeking support from other family members and the village. The less capable the coping skills, the stronger the strain when a crisis takes place. The strain theory of suicide is based on the theoretical frameworks established by previous sociologists, e.g. Durkheim (1951), Merton (1957), and Agnew (2006), and preliminary tests have been accomplished with some American (Zhang and Lester 2008) and Chinese data (Zhang 2010; Zhang, Dong, Delprino, and Zhou 2009; Zhang, Wieczorek, Conwell, and Tu 2011). REFERENCES Agnew, Robert. 2006. "General Strain Theory: Current Status and Directions for Further Research." Pp. 101-123 in Taking Stock: The Status of Criminological Theory-Advances in Criminological Theory, edited by F. T. Cullen, J. P. Wright, and K. Blevins. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction. Durkheim, Emile. 1951. Suicide: A Study in Sociology. New York: Free Press (Original work published in 1897). IOM, (Institute of Medicine). 2002. Reducing suicide: An American imperative. Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press. Mann, J.J., C. Waternaux, G.L. Haas, and K.M. Malone. 1999. "Toward a clinical model of suicidal behavior in psychiatric patients." American Journal of Psychiatry 156:181-189. Merton, R.K. 1957. Social Theory and Social Structure, rev. ed. New York: Free Press. NIMH. 2003. Research on Reduction and Prevention of Suicidality: National Institute of Mental Health. Phillips, Michael R, Gonghuan Yang, Yanping Zhang, L. Wang, H. Ji, and M. Zhou. 2002. "Risk factors for suicide in China: a national case-control psychological autopsy study." The Lancet 360:1728-1736. Spitzer, R.L., J.B.W. Williams, M. Gibbon, and A.B. First. 1988. Instruction Manual for the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-III-R (SCID, 6/1/88 Revision). New York: Biometrics Research Department, New York State Psychiatric Institute. Zhang, Jie. 2010. "Marriage and Suicide among Chinese Rural Young Women." Social Forces 89:311-326. Zhang, Jie, Nini Dong, Robert Delprino, and Li Zhou. 2009. "Psychological Strains Found From In-Depth Interviews With 105 Chinese Rural Youth Suicides." Archives of Suicide Research 13:185 - 194. Zhang, Jie and Shenghua Jin. 1998. "Interpersonal relations and suicide ideation in China." Genetic, Social, and General Psychology Monographs 124:79-94. Zhang, Jie and David Lester. 2008. "Psychological Tensions Found in Suicide Notes: A Test for the Strain Theory of Suicide." Archives of Suicide Research 12:67-73. Zhang, Jie, William F. Wieczorek, Yeates Conwell, and Xin Ming Tu. 2011. "Psychological strains and youth suicide in rural China." Social Science & Medicine 72:2003-2010. Zhang, Jie. 2000. "Gender differences in athletic performance and their implications in gender ratios of suicide: A comparison between the USA and China." Omega: Journal of Death and Dying 41:117-123. |
Liziyao ( talk) 16:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
In the "Murder-suicide" subsection of the "Classification" section, the phrase "... the in part successful kamakazi attacks..." should be changed. "in part" should be "partially", or at the very least, should be "in-part". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.133.185 ( talk) 22:26, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Good. 88.230.65.32 ( talk) 14:56, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
See this edit: [2] Not sure why you object exactly. No, there is no link to somewhere else in Wikipedia explaining this. Obviously this is not an article about evolutionary psychology but neither are such explanations prohibited here. Epigenetics are not incompatible with evolutionary psychology and epigenetics are used in several evolutionary psychology theories. Furthermore, you have deleted clinically important research such that perceived burdensomeness to others has been to found to be a very strong predictor of completed suicide and differentiate between non-lethal and lethal self-injury. Miradre ( Talk E-mail) 12:10, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
This is a general article on suicide, the "theory" is mentioned, general sentences like this don't belong here: "Evolutionary psychology argue that many human psychological features are adaptations to the ancestral envrionment which was very different from the current one. Psychological mechanisms that may have usually increased inclusive fitness in the ancestral environment may not do so in today's environment." And it's not a debate page on the "criticism and counter-criticism" of evolutionary psychology. If you want to expound on it write a section on evolutionary psychology and suicide on the article on evolutionary psychology.
The article is on suicide not a literary exposé on: " many human psychological features " and this:"Perceived burdensomeness to others" can be a consequence of many different types of mental disoders or just plain situational stress. 7mike5000 ( talk) 13:34, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
That's it no Victorian prose, it could use a sentence or two more to expound on the "environmental factors". i'm not trying to be offensive but this:
An evolutionary psychology explanation for suicide is that suicide may under some circumstances improve the reproductive success of relatives of the person committing suicide and thus also the overall reproductive success ( inclusive fitness) of the person committing suicide. This may occur if the person committing suicide will not have more children (even if not committing suicide) and takes away resources from relatives by staying alive. This theory predicts that suicide may be especially likely if a person perceives that he or she is a burden to others, especially relatives, and with no hope of future improvement. In support of this several studies have found that perceived burdensomeness to others is a strong predictor of suicidal thoughs, suicidality, lethality of suicide method, and successful suicide. Joiner et al. argue that there is also other reserach that is be consistent with the theory such that "genuine suicide attempts were often characterize by a desire to make others better off, whereas nonsuicidal self-injury was often characterized by desires to express anger or punish oneself." An objection is that while some suicides may increase the inclusive fitness of a person, in other cases, such as healthy adolescents commiting suicide, this likely decrease overall reproductive success even if also including the reproductive success of relatives. A response is that such cases may be due malfunctioning psychological mechanisms (in the sense of increasing inclusive fitness). Evolutionary psychology argue that many human psychological features are adaptations to the ancestral envrionment which was very different from the current one. Psychological mechanisms that may have usually increased inclusive fitness in the ancestral environment may not do so in today's environment.
Is a longwinded unnecessarily verbose passage that quite frankly is a waste of space because it can be explained in a few sentences. You mention "inclusive fitness" four times in one paragraph. You can't explain it in a couple of sentences without writing a novella. And slapping the tags on the page is supposed to accomplish what besides make the page look like crap?
This is from the National Institute of Mental Health:
More recently, scientists have focused on the biology of suicide. Suicide is thought by some to have a genetic component, to run in families. And research has shown strong evidence that mental and substance-related disorders, which commonly affect those who end up committing suicide, do run in families i.e. genetic inheritance
I didn't say "perceived burdensomeness" wasn't a valid indicator but does everything need a seperate header? Like "perceived hoplessness", feelings of worthlessness or guilt or helplessness, etc., etc.
The page looked like cluttered crap, it finally looks a little presentable and now you pop up out of the blue with the "Joiner et al. argues that .....", inclusive fitness, inclusive fitness,inclusive fitness,. Just state, what is an unproven theory in plain brief English.
7mike5000 (
talk)
18:21, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
"Several studies have found perceived burdensomeness to others to be a particularly strong risk factor. It also differentiates between attempted vs. completed suicide and predicts lethality of suicide method unlike feelings of hopelessness and emotional pain. Likely related to this, completed suicides are characterized by altruistic feelings while non-lethal self-injuries are characterized by feelings of anger or self-punishment.
An evolutionary psychology explanation for this is that suicide may under some circumstances improve inclusive fitness. This may occur if the person committing suicide will not have more children (even if not committing suicide) and takes away resources from relatives by staying alive. An objection is that some suicides, such as healthy adolescents commiting suicide, likely do not increase inclusive fitness. One response is that adaptations to the very different ancestral environment often malfunction in the current one."
Miradre ( Talk E-mail) 09:26, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Another puzzling phenomenon is suicide. In the United States, more than 30,000 individuals intentionally take their own lives each year. It is more common among males than females and shows age spikes in adolescence and old age. De Catanzaro and others argued that suicide is most likely to occur in those who have a dramatically reduced ability to contribute to their own reproductive fitness. In several studies, they found that ill health, burdensomeness to kin, and failure in heterosexual mating were strong predictors of suicidal ideation. Although burdensomeness to kin provides a plausible explanation for some suicides among the elderly, it strains credulity to argue that it would be beneficial to a healthy adolescent’s reproductive success to end his or her life permanently, regardless of the current mating prospects. Such suicides are likely to be nonadaptive byproducts of evolved mechanisms that malfunction. In brief, there are puzzling phenomena such as homosexuality and suicide that remain at least somewhat inexplicable on the basis of current evolutionary psychological accounts.
edited some spelling on the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fraulein451 ( talk • contribs) 07:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
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Please delete the entire following paragraph (including references) "Suicide is not allowed in Islam;[184] however, martyring oneself for Allah (during combat) is not considered the same as completing suicide. Suicide in Islam is seen as a sign of disbelief in God.[185]" The second reference (Reference 185) is to a page that does not exist, the website is an unknown/unreliable website (as you can see here: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/submission.org) and the creators of the website are not even Muslim. Much of the information in the above paragraph is not related to the topic of suicide, and may not be completely accurate.
Please replace it with the following: "Suicide in Islam: Muslims believe that killing oneself is a major sin, and there are stern warnings addressed to the one who does that, but it does not put one beyond the pale of Islam. When feeling depressed, the Muslim believer has to be patient and to seek the help of Allah (God)." The references for this are the following: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/45617/suicide http://islamqa.com/en/ref/70363/suicide This is a very well-known, and reliable source for Islamic knowledge (as you can see here: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/islam-qa.com), and the new paragraph is a much more accurate view of the Islamic opinion on suicide.
Mishmashmarzipan (
talk)
03:36, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Not done: We do not disqualify sources based on the religion of the creators. The BBC site, while brief, presents neutral facts. The other source has been moved or removed. I can remove the latter content if you would like. The text of your second sentence is not encyclopedic but your first sentence is fine, it is just difficult to judge whether these sources are
reliable sources. I get the impression of a self-published site in which a single individual answers questions with no independent review. That is problematic in the same way that a blog would be. Can you find another source for that content? Thanks,
Celestra (
talk)
08:23, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
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Yes, I do wish the last part be removed. Starting from "However" and ending with "God". Below is the entire part that needs to be removed,
"However, martyring oneself for Allah (during combat) is not considered the same as completing suicide. Suicide in Islam is seen as a sign of disbelief in God.[185]"
You have no references for any of this content, and it is either unrelated or inaccurate.
Mishmashmarzipan ( talk) 05:22, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Done I've removed the claim because it no longer has a verifiable source. Thanks,
Celestra (
talk)
06:56, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
A primary research study that shows tentative effect http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61712-1/abstract
And a review supporting little harm from SSRIs http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)60602-8/abstract -- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 01:39, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
In English, the verb "commit" is used to indicate that the following action is criminal or socially opposed. While suicide is indeed illegal in many countries, and it is frowned upon by the Abrahamic religions, it is nevertheless a POV issue to present suicide as neccesarily immoral or illegal.
I suggest that writers avoid using the phrase "commit suicide" in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.87.44 ( talk) 10:19, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
[9] All we need is a secondary source. -- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 15:00, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
The footnote for 6th leading cause of death in US was a book published in 2000--12 years ago.
This site http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm shows 2009 information where suicide is 10th leading cause of death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.175.108.185 ( talk) 01:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
(as matter of acquiring more complete information, directly.)
The article also lacks the very portal on suicide, see fx. Suicide legislation. This should be amended as soon as possible. Please... 62.16.186.124 ( talk) 03:14, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
This is a major motion picture with Richard Dreyfus and a number of other respected actors, positing a sculptor at the.height of his career rendered quadraplegic as the result of an auto accident. His need for assistance in committing suicide leads to a legal challenge when the medical people around him refuse to assist. I suspect it's more mainstream than any other picture listed here, and does a good job on its rather serious topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IGotBupkis ( talk • contribs) 03:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Please refer to the book description here: [10]. That's the only reliable reference where I've seen the term "chronically suicidal patient." But also look here: [11]. That appears to be a discussion forum for the chronically suicidal, and stumbling over that page is what led me to search for the former reference. What I really think we need to do is have a psychiatrist who edits Wikipedia and is recognized as a Wikipedia "staff expert" (yes, I know there is not literally any such thing) wander in here and provide some clarification. Anyone want to help? Guyovski ( talk) 04:39, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Both wikipedia pages contradict one another. In the battle of Saipan wiki, it is stated that 1,000 japanese civilians commited suicide. On the suicide page, it is stated that 'over 10,000' civilians commited suicide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.197.244.60 ( talk) 20:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
[12] Lancet 2012 Doc James ( talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 21:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I searched the talk archives and didn't find anything on this. Depending on what source you look at, anywhere from 10 to 40% of people with gender dysphoria, transsexualism attempt suicide at some point in their lives. This study by the National Institutes of Health arrived at a 32% figure. Gender dysphoria is a (much) higher risk factor for suicide than anything listed in the article; for example, the article gives the example of 5% of people with schizophrenia dying from suicide. I feel that this risk factor merits inclusion in the article. 32% is a staggering number. Thoughts? MsFionnuala ( talk) 14:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Where does a captain going down with his ship or a soldier taking his own life to avoid providing information to the enemy fit? I'd say at least the former is Dutiful and a good example. The later is a gray area but has been reason for the Medal of Honor. 68.74.67.252 ( talk) 06:27, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I find that the article is lacking by not mentioning information as means to survival, like the direct survival advise on how to deal with underlying challenges that lead to being suicidal in the first place. Can you add this, please? 62.16.186.124 ( talk) 02:49, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
There are a number of issues with this edit [14]
The article in question states its own methodology as "We carried out a review of studies in which psychological autopsy studies of suicide completers were performed." It's not a representative sample of suicides, nor is it intended to be.
I don't see how you can justify extrapolating that particular study to the whole population and baldly presenting it as a fact, especially when there are other, contradictory figures available. Addding "however, only" was only done to highlight the variability of estimates. When you have one set of figures implying nearly 90% of suicides are mentally ill, and another set suggesting it's more like 30%, that's a contrast that bears having attention drawn to it. GideonF ( talk) 13:54, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
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Some medical professionals believe this stems from the fact that males are more likely to end their lives through effective violent means, while women primarily use less severe methods such as overdosing on medications.
Replace with:
Some medical professionals who? believe this stems from the fact that males are more likely to end their lives through effective violent means, while women primarily use less severe methods such as overdosing on medications. 71.235.54.248 ( talk) 11:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
On the first line: "A review found that 87% of persons committing suicide where diagnosable with a mental disorder..." should be were instead of where. 74.132.249.206 ( talk) 09:55, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Some good reviews
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Doc James (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
14:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)I just note the charicaturely weak advocacy section in favour of suicide as intellectual position in the World today! Why aren't people allowed their private rights escape from tortureous circumstances, the very escape from inhumanity into DEATH??? Why are they (the opposition) so obsessed with prevention when they can't f*cking get together the aftermath and transition into decent life for "the one they saved"???!!! No, there's something wrong in the World and to put up such ridicule as this "advocacy" is simply not tolerable!!! Lancet or not! LFOlsnes-Lea ( talk) 05:11, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Who are the suicide researchers really? Why are they researching so much, but never uttering a word of sentiment? Where are they? Who are they? What are their "respects"? What are their definite current affiliation? Are they fit to do suicide research? Is their integrity in place for the research to be conducted properly? This may also be added as aspect of suicide and the relevant research!!! Cheers! LFOlsnes-Lea ( talk) 05:22, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
High quality sources are required per WP:V and WP:MEDRS. We do not publish original research and we do not allow logical chains of though. Remember we are an encyclopedia simply trying to reflect the current state of knowledge. Look at some of our high quality articles like dengue fever to see how this is done. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:10, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone else think that the section on treatment would be better placed if it were moved to the article on suicidal ideation (which presently has no section on treatment)? By the time someone has committed suicide, and thus come under the scope of this article, treatment would appear to be out of the question. The condition (if that is the right word) whose treatment is discussed in the section is suicidal ideation, not suicide. GideonF ( talk) 17:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Cryptophreak ( talk) 06:33, 20 August 2012 (UTC): The word "commit" as used prominently in the article has a strictly negative connotation and is especially used in connection with crime. Suicide is not a crime in a number of significant jurisdictions including Canada, Ireland, and the Netherlands. It would therefore appear that the article is in error for using the word. Thoughts?
The term "died by suicide" is the correct terminology and I personally would like to see this reflected in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennajacobson ( talk • contribs) 17:01, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Farber's Theory of Suicide S = f ( PIC.DEC.DIG.TS / Su.HFT ) where the key is ( / = dividend as on the calculator). S = Probability of Suicide PIC = Frequency of Production of Personalities Injured in Their Sense of Competence DEC = Demands for the Exercising of Competence DIG = Demands for Interpersonal Giving TS = Tolerance of Suicide Su = Availability of Succorance HFT = Degree of Hope in the Future Time Perspective of the Society (Where you are. You can change it.)
Your World of academia to go, Farber, Maurice L. Theory of Suicide. New York City, Funk & Wagnalls, 1968, p.75.) with help from Philosophy Now, by url:
http://philosophynow.org/issues/20/Sick_to_Death !
Yes, like that man right below here. Cheers! --
95.34.142.83 (
talk)
08:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
As far as I am concerned, committing suicide becomes more and more frequent as the world gets more and more developed. And I think that this article lacks a part where it is outlined that people commit suicide that more often compared to for instance 100 years ago or even better, even further back, but also what the causes are to this. These could be increasing pressure on the individual, like getting an education, people expecting other people to get an education, especially teenagers and people in the beginning of their 20's, expecting people to be a well integrated part of society etc., but sadly I think that many of these data do not even exist. If we take an example as Greenland, part of Denmark, it has undergone rapid social changes in the last 30-40 years, and I have heard that 100 years ago, Greenland had one of the lowest suicide rates of the entire world, compared to today, where it has one of the world's highest suicide rates! I am convinced that these rapid changes are the causes of Greenlands increased suicides, like I am also convinced that social changes in other parts of the world has helped to make the worldwide suicide rates increase with more than 60 % for the last 45 years. So basically, I would like that this article had a part where it was outlined that many of the world's suicides are causes of the modern world, because that is really what I think it is; if that is anywhere possible to get data about. I couldn't imagine that there would be very many suicides 100, 200 or 1000 years ago/100.000 inhabitants compared to today. Mrschjerbec ( talk) 14:55, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't completely sure about what the article exactly said, but what you said was what I meant. I have some sources, one of which speaks about Greenland as having the world's highest suicide rates: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dispatches/2009/10/the_suicide_capital_of_the_world.html. In the article, I think it should be noted, that the suicide problems began in 1970, after Greenland started becoming a "modern society". The following is taken from the article: "Peter Bjerregaard from Denmark's National Institute of Public Health has noted that while Greenland's suicide problem began in 1970, almost all the deaths involved people born after 1950—the same year that Greenland began its transformation from remote colony to welfare state, as the Danes resettled residents to give them modern services and tuberculosis inoculations." Another text, http://en.mipi.nanoq.gl/Emner/~/media/mipi/MIPI_Viden_om_boern_og_unge/Projekter_og_rapportsamling/Opgaver_og_specialer/Modernization%20and%20mental%20health%20-%20Suicide%20among%20the%20Inuit%20in%20Greenland%20-%20Leineweber.ashx, also talks about Greenland's suicide rates. For one thing, it speaks about the transformation from a remote area to a modern society in 1953 at page 6-7, from "In 1953 Greenland had become an integrated part of the Kingdom of Denmark..." to "But the postwar years also accelerated the spread and use of alcohol and, most dramatically, the number of suicides." But there are really many websites about Greenland and suicides, both in Danish and English, also if you only take the most reliable ones. Probably also some about modernization and increasing rates of suicide besides some about Greenland, if you look closely, even though I think Greenland is a perfect example about what can happen if social changes come too quickly. I can try to find some more sources some time and eventually write something, if I find enough sources. Mrschjerbec ( talk) 12:24, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I will definitely read Wikipedia's guidelines before I start writing anything. Anything else would be a shame, if it gets removed. After I have read the guidelines and if I find any sources good enough, then I may start writing, because I think that suicides in modern society is an important subject. But thx! Mrschjerbec ( talk) 18:43, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
article needs updated, 2 us states (washington, oregon) now allow dr assisted suicide, some other countries as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.249.75 ( talk) 07:19, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
"Once upon time" even the SSB, http://www.ssb.no/english/, ("Statistics Norway", but The Central Statistics Bureau of Norway, given the Norwegian) of Norway reported on 5 year old kids "who suicided". Now, "these" are gone and probably, correctly, IMO, filed as malicious neglect / killing / murder, but it got me thinking H*ll (don't tell the Pope) of a lot, what in the World that could cause these lively people (boys and girls) to get these awful thoughts... THEN it started to roll, Childcare Units, Police, Pediatrics, Teachers, Kindergartens, all the God damn World... So what is it now? What is a suicide now? Care to share your view, please? -- LFOlsnes-Lea ( talk) 00:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I was going to add some information but I was a little confused as how best to cite it, so was hoping someone else could add some details. There's been studies that have shown that people with psychiatric disorders are more likely to have nicotine addiction (eg. Nicotine Addiction and Other Psychiatric Disorders Tobacco Use in Special Populations: Psychiatric Disorders. Which may refute some of the information implying that people who smoke are more likely to commit suicide, but instead that smoking may be an indicator of having a psychiatric disorder (diagnosed or otherwise). Thanks Legios ( talk) 09:52, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
While people with a mental diagnosis (such as schizophrenia) may have a higher probability of killing themselves, this does not mean a rational/intelligent person is incapable of suicide. Notably, patohologizasion is something I avoid completely when conversing with suicidal individuals; it can be phenomenally condescending, offensive (and for good reason in my mind.) LLLookAtYouHacker ( talk) 15:05, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
In the section Epidemiology/Alcohol and drug use it is stated that "About 15% of alcoholics commit suicide". This doesn't sound right. Above that it is stated that "Alcoholics are 5 to 20 times more likely to kill themselves". If the average rate of suicide is about 10/100,000, being an alcoholic would raise that rate to 50-200/100,000 alcoholics, not 15,000/100,000 or 15%. What am I missing? 89.181.215.33 ( talk) 12:58, 28 December 2012 (UTC) Filipe Ribeiro
I realize this has been discussed; it's time for us to add the link. We've lost a well-known Wikipedian User:AaronSw to suicide, and we shouldn't lose any others. -- ESP ( talk) 17:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
I just did a few queries, and I only see "special" content when searching for "suicide" on Yahoo and Ask.com. I don't see it on Google or Bing. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline#In popular culture says that it was in other places... I don't see it on Facebook or Twitter, either. -- ESP ( talk) 20:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
This article is packed full of primary sources. One of the first efforts needed will be to remove and replace them with secondary sources. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:14, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
The "Bile Bear" anecdote is almost certainly false. While no doubt a horrid practice, this anecdote is an urban legend, appearing in a series of circular articles a few years ago citing a single, unidentified witness as having watched a mother bear "strangle" its cub to save it from a life of misery, and then "commit suicide" afterward by bashing its own brains out against a wall. 219.101.196.2 ( talk) 10:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Vainamoinen
It appears that this article has a lot of stuff in it that is contradicted by the sited source. For example we have:
We state "The U.S. Surgeon General states that screening to detect the risk of suicide may be one of the most effective means of preventing suicide in children and adolescents" however the ref in question states [17]
"In effect, indiscriminate suicide awareness efforts and overly inclusive screening lists may promote suicide as a possible solution to ordinary distress or suggest that suicidal thoughts and behaviors are normal responsest o stress4" and "Because suicide screening in the general population currently
is not feasible, it is especially important for suicide prevention
programs to include broader approaches that benefit the whole population
as well as efforts focused on smaller". Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 12:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
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help)Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:16, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
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The sentence after citation 58 under "Rational Suicide" contains the wrong form of the word "Their", and uses the word that holds the meaning of a place instead of the proper one. 72.51.134.179 ( talk) 01:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Pyrotec ( talk · contribs) 21:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
I've now read through this nomination quite quickly, but I've not checked any citations nor copyright status of images. However, this article has the "look and feel" of a GA, so I would anticipate that it should gain GA-status by the end of this review.
I fixed a few "trivial problems" whilst reading through it rather than list them here to be fixed by someone else.
I'm now going to go through the article in more depth, starting at the Definitions sections and finishing with the WP:Lead. This is likely to take another day or so and in this part of the review I will mostly be commenting on "problems", if any as I find them. Pyrotec ( talk) 17:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
...Stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 17:14, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Note: File:Suicidecases.png had a {{ Uncategorized}} flag so I added the category Category:Suicide to it. Change it if you wish. Pyrotec ( talk) 19:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
...Stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 22:03, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
An interesting, informative and comprehensive article. I learnt a lot about this topic as a result of reading through it several times during this review.
I'm awarding this article GA-status. Congratulations on a fine article. I see from the {{ articlehistory}} that back in May 2005 this article was an unsuccessful WP:FAC candidate. I believe that the current version of the article could make FA, but to get a wider-view WP:PR might be the next step. Pyrotec ( talk) 20:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
In the section on "Notable Cases", "Saipan in" is missing a space and so the link shows as "Saipanin". 67.149.106.20 ( talk) 03:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
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I have found two grammatical errors in the article "Suicide" which ruin the flow of the article.
The following: Suicide also known as completed suicide is the "act of taking one's own life". Should be changed to: Suicide, also known as completed suicide, is the "act of taking one's own life".
The following: For example suicide rates have been found to be greater in households with firearms than those without them. Should be changed to: For example, suicide rates have been found to be greater in households with firearms than those without them.
Ttenner (
talk)
00:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
psychiatric unit there life time risk of completed suicide is about 8.6% change to their — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.39.175.28 ( talk) 12:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
So if 50% of people have a mental illness at some point [3] and only 30% of people who commit suicide have a mental illness that would mean that mental illness is protective against suicide. Which part of this source supports the statement in question [20] Can you provide a page number? Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:09, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
In the interest of dispelling myths propounded by popular culture and the media, I think its important to borrow certain elements of the "Seasonal Suicide" section in the Epidemiology of suicide sub-article to the main Suicide article. The myth of increased suicide rates during the "winter holidays" serves to misinform behavioral health care professionals and the people in general. This misinformation results in a decrease in vigilance after the winter holidays by the very people that support those that are at high risk for suicide. Moreover, the best available data shows that the suicide rate peaks during spring and early summer, and that is very important to know. I propose that the following is mirrored on the main Suicide article:
The idea that suicide is more common during the winter holidays (including Christmas in the northern hemisphere) is actually a myth, generally reinforced by media coverage associating suicide with the holiday season. The National Center for Health Statistics found that suicides drop during the winter months, and peak during spring and early summer.
Please object if you feel this is unnecessary. Thank you all. Evangelos Giakoumatos ( talk) 13:08, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a problematic division between the categories "Suicide by gas" and "Suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning". The former seems to be intended to cover suicide by town gas, but carbon monoxide is the main poisonous ingredient in town gas. If there is a significant division here it is between people who used town gas (usually by sticking their head in the oven) and who used a car exhaust in a confined space, but in both cases carbon dioxide poisoning is the cause of death. I am not aware of any other poisonous gas which has been used in suicides to any significant extent. I suggest we merge the two categories, but what to? PatGallacher ( talk) 11:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
An interested paper in JAMA [25]. Not a review but an interesting look at rational death. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 12:29, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I reviewed many of the previous talk items over the years on why the incorrect and non-neutral word "commit" is used so profusely in this article. They are not convincing. Additionally, this debate has evolved considerably in that time. The word clearly has a negative connotation, and is generally rejected among community mental health professionals. See my recently reverted edit, the reversion of which also deleted important counterbalance information on media guidelines for reporting suicide.
That media uses this terminology, or that is has a lot of Google hits, or that you personally do not take offence, are not academic arguments nor ones worthy of an unbiased exegesis. The fact is, one does not say that he or she is going to go commit dinner, or commit some work, or commit a shower. Even in terms of health impacts, one does not commit smoking, or commit a DNR order, or commit a heart attack. "Commit" denotes criminality, and suicide is not a crime for the English speaking populations which would read this article. Even for those jurisdictions where the act of suicide remains a crime, leading organizations are working to make changes.
The World Health Organization, among other expert sources, recommend against the language used in this article.
See: [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31], [32], [33]
If someone can provide arguments actually in favor of using the present language (with a little more depth than "because a lot of people do it,") I think that the article would benefit from such a critical analysis. Markhenick ( talk) 17:09, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Note: I have notified WikiProject Death of this discussion. Ladyof Shalott 22:49, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
GideonF that does not make much sense. Markhenick is arguing in favour of removing/avoiding stigmatising language and has asked you to support your argument in favour of stigmatisation with some evidence. Do you have any? Djapa Owen ( talk) 13:30, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Drmies Thank you for making an actual argument! Although... now I'll pick at it a little (or a lot) :P
The WHO report which you feel says nothing on the topic in fact models appropriate language for this subject by how they use the terms "complete" or attempt suicide, but never "commit".
The second piece states: "The expression “to commit suicide” is morally imprecise. Its connotation of illegality and dishonour intensifies the stigma attached to the one who has died as well as to those who have been traumatized by this loss. It does nothing to convey the fact that suicide is the tragic outcome of severe depressive illness and thus, like any other affliction of the body or mind, has in itself no moral weight." It doesn't have to convince you, as it speaks to the history of the term and the experience of those the terminology affects.
The "activist newsletter" to which you refer is an information sheet from the Centre for Suicide Prevention. Granted, they have an obvious agenda of suicide prevention (which is also philosophically and empirically defensible, but that's a different discussion). However, they also provide some academic sources to support their argument.
The CDC recommendations were coauthored by six other major health bodies, including the Surgeon General, and collaborated on with three other international bodies, including the World Health Organization. Again, you personally may not be convinced, but - respectfully - by what comparative right does that make any difference at all? The biggest point is that they also collectively support the assertion that "commit" has a connotation of criminality or sinfulness - a judgement - which should be evidence enough for the exclusion of the term.
In terms of the grammar, a decision must be made. If suicide is an action, "to suicide" is entirely appropriate. If it is a thing, "to complete suicide" makes the most sense. If it is a cause of death, "to die by suicide" would be accurate. Under no circumstance (except perhaps the Indian example above) is the term "commit" more neutral than the various alternatives.
The proposed change is not an effort to prevent suicides (I also have some issues with media guidelines myself). These sources support the fact that the term "commit suicide" contains a judgement, which thereby makes it not neutral, which is reason to change it. Markhenick ( talk) 16:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Note: I have submitted this discussion for initial level dispute resolution. Markhenick ( talk) 19:39, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Dropping in after seeing the issue raised at DRN: I don't have any reliable sources or such to introduce beyond my BA in English Writing (woo-hoo), but personally I've never considered the "committed" in "committed suicide" to be stigmatizing language, and I would be surprised if I know anyone who has...and I'd probably ask them why they consider it stigmatizing. The notion that that word choice suggests criminality is, to my mind, bollocks; people commit to courses of action both good and ill all the time. I'll be quite curious to see how this develops. Doniago ( talk) 20:00, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
What language should we use to discuss the act of suicide? Ladyof Shalott 22:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Random comment - Just browsin around and thought I'd throw this out there. For programmers commit means to enact a permanent change. In that context the connotation is neutral. Just a thought.
PraetorianFury (
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19:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
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I've reread everything contributed here, and there have in fact been various ways forward suggested in the discussion above. Any or all of the other terms (ie. to die by suicide, to complete suicide, to suicide, to kill oneself, to take one's life, etc) may by used in combination with commit suicide where it is appropriate and fits with the flow and style of the existing wording. Another option is just to create a separate section which in one go attempts to reflect the complexity and detail of this discussion. The latter option is probably the cleanest, since it would leave the rest of the article as is. I would be happy to write the initial one, and then you can all have at it.
Regarding the elevation in dispute resolution: I'm sure some are quite adept at bullying others into accepting their consensus - this is well known about these talk pages, and I was prepared for that. I am also sensitive to the fact that it must be quite frustrating for you to encounter someone on whom that has virtually no impact. Let's keep the discussion focused on the issue itself, however, rather than on whether or not it is a worthy cause to continue to push this issue forward. It is. If you don't see that, or don't agree, that's ok. You don't have to. Plenty of legitimate arguments and sources have been provided to support a departure from the present form of this article. That demands deeper consideration, however it comes about. Markhenick ( talk) 11:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
By way of a progress update: I am working on the preliminaries for a draft section that I will post here for review which addresses this issue. As suggested, this should make the proposal more clear. I've started by compiling a table of 30 or so solid references (the reliability of which being determined by the number of times the specific reference was cited when available, or the relative prominence of the publishing organization). I have extracted relevant quotations, and obtained working links for each. The next step will be to distill this information into a workable draft. Markhenick ( talk) 21:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
If the WHO recommends against the use of the phrase "commit suicide", this is probably worth a mention in the article, something along the lines of "Although the phrase "commit suicide" is standard English and widely used in (news media, vernacular, etc.) its use is discouraged by (WHO, etc.) because (...)." Given the enormous scope of the article, more than a single sentence on the terminology currently in vogue among professionals in the field would seem to be undue weight. A full section on the recommended terminology and the reasons for its use would probably make a fine addition to the Suicide prevention article, which discusses treatment in more depth. (BTW, beyond reliability, the number of times an article is cited is often used as a measure of an article's influence in a field. I believe such citation counts are often limited to citations in reputable journals. This is an imperfect measure to be sure, for example an article can be cited many times in order to refute it, but Markhenick appears to be doing a pretty careful analysis and should be able to avoid such traps.)-- Wikimedes ( talk) 20:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
According to Fairbairn, “The most common way of speaking about suicide is to talk of its being ‘committed’.” [1] In fact, “committed suicide” or similar descriptions continue to be the norm in both scholarly research and journalism. [2] [3]. Advocacy groups have suggested that this phrasing has become so entrenched in English vocabulary that it has gained “a naturalness which implies a deceptive harmlessness.” [2] Fairburn further acknowledged the difficulty in finding alternative means of referring to suicide which “are neither clumsy nor misleading,” [1]
However, while common, Lebacqz & Englehardt argue that referring to suicide as an act committed may be hazardous to ethical clarity. [4] Others have also argued in favour of more exact language regarding suicide, both in the interest of moral and ethical precision, [3] [5] as well as scientific and clinical clarity. [6] [7] A United States Navy report urges against the use of the term “committed suicide” on similar grounds, asserting that "suicide is better understood when framed objectively within the context of behavioral health." [8]
The lack of clarity in English suicide terminology has been attributed to the connotations of crime, dishonour, and sin that suicide carries.
[9]Cite error: The <ref>
tag has too many names (see the
help page). The German term Selbstmord begehen is similar, denoting an act of commission.
[5] Common language “portrays suicide as a ‘crime’ to be ‘committed’ as is, for example, murder.”
[4] This is despite the fact that suicide is largely no longer a crime,
[3]
[10] and that, as noted suicidologist Samuel Wallace wrote, “all suicide is neither abhorrent nor not; insane or not; selfish or not; rational or not; justifiable or not.”
[11]
Canadian suicide prevention activist, P. Bonny Ball, commented that criminal implications of suicide are a carryover from the Middle Ages when suicide was considered “both illegal and sinful by the laws and religions of the time.” [12] Sommer-Rotenberg had similarly argued that “the act of self-killing was considered criminal because it was perceived as transgressing the moral authority of God and the righteous feelings of humankind.” [5]
Since “committing suicide” was akin to committing murder or rape, it has been argued that they continue to be linked in some languages. [2] However, this common English expression is not universal: “By contrast the French se suicider and the Italian uccidersi are reflexive. Likewise in Hebrew: l’hit’abbed, ‘to self-destroy,’ is something one does to oneself, with no implication of criminality.” [5]
Various alternatives have been proposed to clarify the language regarding the act of suicide from a variety of sectors – including government, journalism, community mental health advocates, and the scientific community. Terms such as “death by suicide,” and “non-fatal suicide attempt” have been suggested to be more objective. [8] The World Health Organization has agreed that these terms “are more accurate and less open to misinterpretation.” [13] The National Institute of Mental Health, the largest research organization in the world specializing in mental illness, also recommends such phrasing is “completed suicide,” or “kill him/herself.” [14]
As it applies to a direct clinical context, the widely cited Beck Classification of Suicidal Behaviour exclusively uses the terminology of “complete suicide.” [15] This classification was revisited in a number of notable documents (such as the Operational Classification for Determination of Suicide, the ‘Tower of Babel’ nomenclature, the WHO/EURO definitions, the Columbia University suicidality classification, the CDC self-directed violence surveillance system, and the Denver VA VISN 19 MIRECC self-directed violence classification system). [16]
A consensus is gaining momentum that suicide is a public heath concern to be prevented, rather than a criminal one to be punished, either by law or by language. [17] [18] [19] [2] To that end, many other options and guidelines have been suggested. [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] As it concerns media reporting of suicide, a key indicator of guideline influence on language as it is practiced in that context reports including one by the Annenberg School for Communication's Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania suggests that there is "evidence of a change in reporting practices following the release of the new media guidelines” [26]
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May I suggest a pause, followed by examination of the presumably yet to be created final article, and then a discussion of the sentence? It is beneficial to see the end product before designing the link. Do you have a hyperlink, please to what I presume to be an Articles for Creation article? Fiddle Faddle 19:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
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We have a section on the "prevention" of suicide. There are a number of psychological techniques which may be useful. Thus these with be "psychological prevention methods" rather than "prevention treatments". Thus Psychological would be a better heading. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 14:14, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
I cannot see any reason why failed suicide attempt is a separate, short, article. It should be merged into this article. – ukexpat ( talk) 14:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Disagree on merge. This article needs work but Failed_suicide_attempt is a separate subject than parasuicide, suicidal ideation, euthanasia and/or suicide. Simply put Correlation_does_not_imply_causation . If this article is merge it will be slowly deleted out of the suicide article as numerous merges articles have had happen across many subjects. This merge and the loss of information on separate subjects is one of wikipedia's problems. The article on suicide is large enough already. Multiple articles on suicide and related subjects have been deleted over the years. Merge and Purge is the great way to silence a subject you don't like here.There is no reason, the url isn't needed or confusing for multiple subjects. This article's briefness reflects on the low level of research and the poor understanding of suicide failures. Parasuicide is making a fake attempt when the goal isn't death, sometimes failed attempts get written up as parasuicidal behavior especially when the person is facing being held involuntarily against their will and/or medicated against their will. The right to die is another article that goes in to detail how volatile the opinions are on this subject matter. I vote to leave it un merge and for it to be worked on. Due to the great "citation needed" wimp out when you don't have facts to argue with the standards and regular results of people experiences on the subject. People who have failed attempts could add a lot of information but studies are on the subject are flawed because you have different groups, those who tried and are glad they failed,those that want out of the intervention to continue to completion the attempt, those who wished it would have worked. Just to name a few. Work is needed but that job isn't merging. 68.210.95.127 ( talk) 06:26, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
The complicated formatting in the sections Suicide#Classification and Suicide#Substance_abuse are not supported by WP:MOS and make the text in question much harder to edit as well as read. Will ask for further input but IMO should be returned to normal.-- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 00:59, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
A reader has suggested that the article ought to have a hat note which has links to suicide hotlines. User:Fred Bauder Talk 14:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
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The Strain Theory of Suicide
An Article for Wikipedia
Jie Zhang, Ph.D.
Professor Jie Zhang, Ph.D., Department of Sociology, State University of New York College at Buffalo, <contact details redacted>
November 10, 2011
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Author Biography Jie Zhang, Ph.D. Dr. Zhang is professor of sociology at State University of New York College at Buffalo. His research interests include sociology of mental health, culture, and suicide. He has published extensively in such sociological, medical and psychological journals as Social Forces, Social Science and Medicine, American Journal of Psychiatry, Archives of Suicide Research, Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica, Psychiatry Research, Psychological Medicine and Journal of Personality Assessment. The Strain Theory of Suicide The strain theory of suicide postulates that suicide is usually preceded by psychological strains. A strain can be a consequence of any of the four conflicts: differential values, aspiration and reality, relative deprivation, and lack of coping skills for a crisis. Psychological strains in the form of all the four sources have been tested supported with a sample of suicide notes in the United States and in rural China through psychological autopsy studies. The strain theory of suicide forms a challenge to the psychiatric model popular among the suicidologists in the world. In the United States, the factors most consistently associated with suicide, affecting over 90% of all people who die by suicide, are mental illness, substance use disorders (SUD) and alcohol use disorders (AUD). However, the fact that only a small proportion of persons with these disorders actually die by suicide and only about half of the Chinese suicides have been diagnosed with any mental problems (Phillips, Yang, Zhang, Wang, Ji, and Zhou 2002) raises important questions that challenge the psychiatric model of suicide (NIMH 2003). A psychiatric disorder may be neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for suicide. To identify suicide risk factors, it is imperative to look beyond the presence of a major psychiatric syndrome (Mann, Waternaux, Haas, and Malone 1999). Actually, the blend between psychiatric and social predictors of suicide is rare in suicide research. Sociological studies of suicide tend to overestimate the importance of social variables by failing to measure psychiatric disorders with such rigorous instrument as the SCID (the Structured Clinical Interview for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) (Spitzer, Williams, Gibbon, and First 1988). Durkheim’s (1951) classical theory of social integration and regulation explaining egoistic, altruistic, anomic, and fatalistic suicide is in theoretical and practical conflict with psychopathological theories prevalent in today’s. However, substantial numbers of suicides, East and West, are conducted by persons who appear to be in an un-anomic environment (Zhang and Jin 1998; Zhang 2000). Suicide rates and patterns vary greatly among different geographic areas and different racial and ethnic groups around the world, and the radical differences in demography of suicide reflect cultural influences. Society and culture play an enormous role in dictating how people respond to and view mental health and suicide, and cultural variables have a far-ranging impact on suicide. Therefore, suicide prevention requires an understanding of how suicide varies with social and cultural forces and how it relates to individual, group and contextual experiences (IOM 2002). In their theoretical work on anomie, deviance, and criminology, Durkheim (1951), Merton (1957) and Agnew (2006) have laid foundation for this strain theory of suicide. When the strains caused by frustrations are outwardly directed, deviance or crimes occur (Agnew 2006; Durkheim 1951; Merton 1957); when the strains are released inwardly, self-harm or suicide happens.While crime usually involves outward acts of violence with physical victims, suicide is an inward violence without other physical victims, and both could result from strain that has brought about negative emotions such as anger, depression, resentment, and dissatisfaction. However, the strains that precede suicidal behavior may not be only economically based as exemplified in Agnew’s three strains. There are other intellectual observations that help us conceptualize the current strain theory of suicide. Strain cannot be equivalent to simple pressure or stress. People may frequently have stress but not necessarily strain in their life time. A pressure or stress in daily life is a single variable phenomenon. When we say we have pressure at work, we mean that we have a lot of work to do, we have a deadline to meet, or we have stressful relations with co-workers or bosses. A strain is made up by at least two pressures or two variables, similar to the formation of cognitive dissonance. Examples include, at least, two differential cultural values, aspiration and reality, one’s own status and that of others, and a crisis and coping ability. As cognitive dissonance, strain is a psychological frustration or even suffering that one struggles to find a solution to reduce or do away with. But in truth, it is more serious, frustrating, and threatening than cognitive dissonance because major cultural value systems may be involved. The extreme solution for a strain is suicide. Figure 1 illustrates the proposed diagram for the relationship between strain and suicide. Figure 1: Psychological Strains and Suicide: A Theoretical Model There could be four types of strain that precede a suicide, and each can be derived from specific sources. A source of strain must consist of two, and at least two, conflicting social facts. If the two social facts are non-contradictory, there would be no strain. Strain Source 1: Differential Values When two conflicting social values or beliefs are competing in an individual’s daily life, the person experiences value strain. The two conflicting social facts are competing personal beliefs internalized in the person’s value system. A cult member may experience strain if the mainstream culture and the cult religion are both considered important in the cult member’s daily life. Other examples include the second generation of immigrants in the United States who have to abide by the ethnic culture rules enforced in the family while simultaneously adapting to the American culture with peers and school. In China, rural young women appreciate gender egalitarianism advocated by the communist government, but at the same time, they are trapped in cultural sexual discrimination as traditionally cultivated by Confucianism. Another example that might be found in developing countries is the differential values of traditional collectivism and modern individualism. When the two conflicting values are taken as equally important in a person’s daily life, the person experiences great strain. When one value is more important than the other, there is then little or no strain. Strain Source 2: Reality vs. Aspiration If there is a discrepancy between an individual’s aspiration or a high goal and the reality the person has to live with, the person experiences aspiration strain. The two conflicting social facts are one’s splendid ideal or goal and the reality that may prevent one from achieving it. An individual living in the United States expects to be very rich or at least moderately successful as other Americans do, but in reality the means to achieve the goal is not equally available to the person because of his/her social status or any other reasons. Aspirations or goals can be a college a person aims to get in, an ideal girl a boy wants to marry, and a political cause a person strives for, etc. If the reality is far from the aspiration, the person experiences strain. Another example might be from rural China. A young woman aspiring to equal opportunity and equal treatment may have to live within the traditional and Confucian reality, exemplified by her family and village, which interferes with that goal. The larger the discrepancy between aspiration and reality, the greater the strain will be. Strain Source 3: Relative Deprivation In the situation where an extremely economically poor individual realizes some other people of the same or similar background are leading a much better life, the person experiences deprivation strain. The two conflicting social facts are one’s own miserable life and the perceived richness of comparative others. A person living in absolute poverty, where there is no comparison with others, does not necessarily feel bad, miserable, or deprived. On the other hand, if the same poor person understands that other people like him/her live a better life, he or she may feel deprived because of these circumstances. In an economically polarized society where the rich and poor live geographically close to each other, people are more likely to feel this discrepancy. In today’s rural China, television, newspaper, magazines, and radio have brought home to rural youths how relatively affluent urban life is. Additionally, those young people who went to work in the cities (dagong) and returned to the village during holidays with luxury materials and exciting stories make the relative deprivation even more realistically perceived. Increased perception of deprivation indicates relatively greater strain for individuals. Strain Source 4: Deficient Coping Facing a life crisis, some individuals are not able to cope with it, and then they experience coping strain. The two conflicting social facts are life crisis and the appropriate coping capacity. All people who have experienced crises do not experience strain. A crisis may be a pressure or stress in daily life, and those individuals who are not able to cope with the crisis have strain. Such crises as loss of money, loss of status, loss of face, divorce, death of a loved one, etc. may lead to serious strain in the person who does not know how to cope with these negative life events. A high school boy who is constantly bullied and ridiculed by peers may experience great strain if he does not know how to deal with the situation. Likewise, a Chinese rural young woman who is frequently wronged by her mother-in-law may have strain if she is not psychologically ready to cope with a different situation by seeking support from other family members and the village. The less capable the coping skills, the stronger the strain when a crisis takes place. The strain theory of suicide is based on the theoretical frameworks established by previous sociologists, e.g. Durkheim (1951), Merton (1957), and Agnew (2006), and preliminary tests have been accomplished with some American (Zhang and Lester 2008) and Chinese data (Zhang 2010; Zhang, Dong, Delprino, and Zhou 2009; Zhang, Wieczorek, Conwell, and Tu 2011). REFERENCES Agnew, Robert. 2006. "General Strain Theory: Current Status and Directions for Further Research." Pp. 101-123 in Taking Stock: The Status of Criminological Theory-Advances in Criminological Theory, edited by F. T. Cullen, J. P. Wright, and K. Blevins. New Brunswick, NJ: Transaction. Durkheim, Emile. 1951. Suicide: A Study in Sociology. New York: Free Press (Original work published in 1897). IOM, (Institute of Medicine). 2002. Reducing suicide: An American imperative. Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press. Mann, J.J., C. Waternaux, G.L. Haas, and K.M. Malone. 1999. "Toward a clinical model of suicidal behavior in psychiatric patients." American Journal of Psychiatry 156:181-189. Merton, R.K. 1957. Social Theory and Social Structure, rev. ed. New York: Free Press. NIMH. 2003. Research on Reduction and Prevention of Suicidality: National Institute of Mental Health. Phillips, Michael R, Gonghuan Yang, Yanping Zhang, L. Wang, H. Ji, and M. Zhou. 2002. "Risk factors for suicide in China: a national case-control psychological autopsy study." The Lancet 360:1728-1736. Spitzer, R.L., J.B.W. Williams, M. Gibbon, and A.B. First. 1988. Instruction Manual for the Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-III-R (SCID, 6/1/88 Revision). New York: Biometrics Research Department, New York State Psychiatric Institute. Zhang, Jie. 2010. "Marriage and Suicide among Chinese Rural Young Women." Social Forces 89:311-326. Zhang, Jie, Nini Dong, Robert Delprino, and Li Zhou. 2009. "Psychological Strains Found From In-Depth Interviews With 105 Chinese Rural Youth Suicides." Archives of Suicide Research 13:185 - 194. Zhang, Jie and Shenghua Jin. 1998. "Interpersonal relations and suicide ideation in China." Genetic, Social, and General Psychology Monographs 124:79-94. Zhang, Jie and David Lester. 2008. "Psychological Tensions Found in Suicide Notes: A Test for the Strain Theory of Suicide." Archives of Suicide Research 12:67-73. Zhang, Jie, William F. Wieczorek, Yeates Conwell, and Xin Ming Tu. 2011. "Psychological strains and youth suicide in rural China." Social Science & Medicine 72:2003-2010. Zhang, Jie. 2000. "Gender differences in athletic performance and their implications in gender ratios of suicide: A comparison between the USA and China." Omega: Journal of Death and Dying 41:117-123. |
Liziyao ( talk) 16:19, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
In the "Murder-suicide" subsection of the "Classification" section, the phrase "... the in part successful kamakazi attacks..." should be changed. "in part" should be "partially", or at the very least, should be "in-part". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.94.133.185 ( talk) 22:26, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Good. 88.230.65.32 ( talk) 14:56, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
See this edit: [2] Not sure why you object exactly. No, there is no link to somewhere else in Wikipedia explaining this. Obviously this is not an article about evolutionary psychology but neither are such explanations prohibited here. Epigenetics are not incompatible with evolutionary psychology and epigenetics are used in several evolutionary psychology theories. Furthermore, you have deleted clinically important research such that perceived burdensomeness to others has been to found to be a very strong predictor of completed suicide and differentiate between non-lethal and lethal self-injury. Miradre ( Talk E-mail) 12:10, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
This is a general article on suicide, the "theory" is mentioned, general sentences like this don't belong here: "Evolutionary psychology argue that many human psychological features are adaptations to the ancestral envrionment which was very different from the current one. Psychological mechanisms that may have usually increased inclusive fitness in the ancestral environment may not do so in today's environment." And it's not a debate page on the "criticism and counter-criticism" of evolutionary psychology. If you want to expound on it write a section on evolutionary psychology and suicide on the article on evolutionary psychology.
The article is on suicide not a literary exposé on: " many human psychological features " and this:"Perceived burdensomeness to others" can be a consequence of many different types of mental disoders or just plain situational stress. 7mike5000 ( talk) 13:34, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
That's it no Victorian prose, it could use a sentence or two more to expound on the "environmental factors". i'm not trying to be offensive but this:
An evolutionary psychology explanation for suicide is that suicide may under some circumstances improve the reproductive success of relatives of the person committing suicide and thus also the overall reproductive success ( inclusive fitness) of the person committing suicide. This may occur if the person committing suicide will not have more children (even if not committing suicide) and takes away resources from relatives by staying alive. This theory predicts that suicide may be especially likely if a person perceives that he or she is a burden to others, especially relatives, and with no hope of future improvement. In support of this several studies have found that perceived burdensomeness to others is a strong predictor of suicidal thoughs, suicidality, lethality of suicide method, and successful suicide. Joiner et al. argue that there is also other reserach that is be consistent with the theory such that "genuine suicide attempts were often characterize by a desire to make others better off, whereas nonsuicidal self-injury was often characterized by desires to express anger or punish oneself." An objection is that while some suicides may increase the inclusive fitness of a person, in other cases, such as healthy adolescents commiting suicide, this likely decrease overall reproductive success even if also including the reproductive success of relatives. A response is that such cases may be due malfunctioning psychological mechanisms (in the sense of increasing inclusive fitness). Evolutionary psychology argue that many human psychological features are adaptations to the ancestral envrionment which was very different from the current one. Psychological mechanisms that may have usually increased inclusive fitness in the ancestral environment may not do so in today's environment.
Is a longwinded unnecessarily verbose passage that quite frankly is a waste of space because it can be explained in a few sentences. You mention "inclusive fitness" four times in one paragraph. You can't explain it in a couple of sentences without writing a novella. And slapping the tags on the page is supposed to accomplish what besides make the page look like crap?
This is from the National Institute of Mental Health:
More recently, scientists have focused on the biology of suicide. Suicide is thought by some to have a genetic component, to run in families. And research has shown strong evidence that mental and substance-related disorders, which commonly affect those who end up committing suicide, do run in families i.e. genetic inheritance
I didn't say "perceived burdensomeness" wasn't a valid indicator but does everything need a seperate header? Like "perceived hoplessness", feelings of worthlessness or guilt or helplessness, etc., etc.
The page looked like cluttered crap, it finally looks a little presentable and now you pop up out of the blue with the "Joiner et al. argues that .....", inclusive fitness, inclusive fitness,inclusive fitness,. Just state, what is an unproven theory in plain brief English.
7mike5000 (
talk)
18:21, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
"Several studies have found perceived burdensomeness to others to be a particularly strong risk factor. It also differentiates between attempted vs. completed suicide and predicts lethality of suicide method unlike feelings of hopelessness and emotional pain. Likely related to this, completed suicides are characterized by altruistic feelings while non-lethal self-injuries are characterized by feelings of anger or self-punishment.
An evolutionary psychology explanation for this is that suicide may under some circumstances improve inclusive fitness. This may occur if the person committing suicide will not have more children (even if not committing suicide) and takes away resources from relatives by staying alive. An objection is that some suicides, such as healthy adolescents commiting suicide, likely do not increase inclusive fitness. One response is that adaptations to the very different ancestral environment often malfunction in the current one."
Miradre ( Talk E-mail) 09:26, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Another puzzling phenomenon is suicide. In the United States, more than 30,000 individuals intentionally take their own lives each year. It is more common among males than females and shows age spikes in adolescence and old age. De Catanzaro and others argued that suicide is most likely to occur in those who have a dramatically reduced ability to contribute to their own reproductive fitness. In several studies, they found that ill health, burdensomeness to kin, and failure in heterosexual mating were strong predictors of suicidal ideation. Although burdensomeness to kin provides a plausible explanation for some suicides among the elderly, it strains credulity to argue that it would be beneficial to a healthy adolescent’s reproductive success to end his or her life permanently, regardless of the current mating prospects. Such suicides are likely to be nonadaptive byproducts of evolved mechanisms that malfunction. In brief, there are puzzling phenomena such as homosexuality and suicide that remain at least somewhat inexplicable on the basis of current evolutionary psychological accounts.
edited some spelling on the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fraulein451 ( talk • contribs) 07:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
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Please delete the entire following paragraph (including references) "Suicide is not allowed in Islam;[184] however, martyring oneself for Allah (during combat) is not considered the same as completing suicide. Suicide in Islam is seen as a sign of disbelief in God.[185]" The second reference (Reference 185) is to a page that does not exist, the website is an unknown/unreliable website (as you can see here: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/submission.org) and the creators of the website are not even Muslim. Much of the information in the above paragraph is not related to the topic of suicide, and may not be completely accurate.
Please replace it with the following: "Suicide in Islam: Muslims believe that killing oneself is a major sin, and there are stern warnings addressed to the one who does that, but it does not put one beyond the pale of Islam. When feeling depressed, the Muslim believer has to be patient and to seek the help of Allah (God)." The references for this are the following: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/45617/suicide http://islamqa.com/en/ref/70363/suicide This is a very well-known, and reliable source for Islamic knowledge (as you can see here: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/islam-qa.com), and the new paragraph is a much more accurate view of the Islamic opinion on suicide.
Mishmashmarzipan (
talk)
03:36, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Not done: We do not disqualify sources based on the religion of the creators. The BBC site, while brief, presents neutral facts. The other source has been moved or removed. I can remove the latter content if you would like. The text of your second sentence is not encyclopedic but your first sentence is fine, it is just difficult to judge whether these sources are
reliable sources. I get the impression of a self-published site in which a single individual answers questions with no independent review. That is problematic in the same way that a blog would be. Can you find another source for that content? Thanks,
Celestra (
talk)
08:23, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
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Yes, I do wish the last part be removed. Starting from "However" and ending with "God". Below is the entire part that needs to be removed,
"However, martyring oneself for Allah (during combat) is not considered the same as completing suicide. Suicide in Islam is seen as a sign of disbelief in God.[185]"
You have no references for any of this content, and it is either unrelated or inaccurate.
Mishmashmarzipan ( talk) 05:22, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
Done I've removed the claim because it no longer has a verifiable source. Thanks,
Celestra (
talk)
06:56, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
A primary research study that shows tentative effect http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61712-1/abstract
And a review supporting little harm from SSRIs http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)60602-8/abstract -- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 01:39, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
In English, the verb "commit" is used to indicate that the following action is criminal or socially opposed. While suicide is indeed illegal in many countries, and it is frowned upon by the Abrahamic religions, it is nevertheless a POV issue to present suicide as neccesarily immoral or illegal.
I suggest that writers avoid using the phrase "commit suicide" in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.87.44 ( talk) 10:19, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
[9] All we need is a secondary source. -- Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 15:00, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
The footnote for 6th leading cause of death in US was a book published in 2000--12 years ago.
This site http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm shows 2009 information where suicide is 10th leading cause of death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.175.108.185 ( talk) 01:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
(as matter of acquiring more complete information, directly.)
The article also lacks the very portal on suicide, see fx. Suicide legislation. This should be amended as soon as possible. Please... 62.16.186.124 ( talk) 03:14, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
This is a major motion picture with Richard Dreyfus and a number of other respected actors, positing a sculptor at the.height of his career rendered quadraplegic as the result of an auto accident. His need for assistance in committing suicide leads to a legal challenge when the medical people around him refuse to assist. I suspect it's more mainstream than any other picture listed here, and does a good job on its rather serious topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IGotBupkis ( talk • contribs) 03:55, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Please refer to the book description here: [10]. That's the only reliable reference where I've seen the term "chronically suicidal patient." But also look here: [11]. That appears to be a discussion forum for the chronically suicidal, and stumbling over that page is what led me to search for the former reference. What I really think we need to do is have a psychiatrist who edits Wikipedia and is recognized as a Wikipedia "staff expert" (yes, I know there is not literally any such thing) wander in here and provide some clarification. Anyone want to help? Guyovski ( talk) 04:39, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Both wikipedia pages contradict one another. In the battle of Saipan wiki, it is stated that 1,000 japanese civilians commited suicide. On the suicide page, it is stated that 'over 10,000' civilians commited suicide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.197.244.60 ( talk) 20:35, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
[12] Lancet 2012 Doc James ( talk · contribs · email)(please leave replies on my talk page) 21:05, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I searched the talk archives and didn't find anything on this. Depending on what source you look at, anywhere from 10 to 40% of people with gender dysphoria, transsexualism attempt suicide at some point in their lives. This study by the National Institutes of Health arrived at a 32% figure. Gender dysphoria is a (much) higher risk factor for suicide than anything listed in the article; for example, the article gives the example of 5% of people with schizophrenia dying from suicide. I feel that this risk factor merits inclusion in the article. 32% is a staggering number. Thoughts? MsFionnuala ( talk) 14:46, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Where does a captain going down with his ship or a soldier taking his own life to avoid providing information to the enemy fit? I'd say at least the former is Dutiful and a good example. The later is a gray area but has been reason for the Medal of Honor. 68.74.67.252 ( talk) 06:27, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
I find that the article is lacking by not mentioning information as means to survival, like the direct survival advise on how to deal with underlying challenges that lead to being suicidal in the first place. Can you add this, please? 62.16.186.124 ( talk) 02:49, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
There are a number of issues with this edit [14]
The article in question states its own methodology as "We carried out a review of studies in which psychological autopsy studies of suicide completers were performed." It's not a representative sample of suicides, nor is it intended to be.
I don't see how you can justify extrapolating that particular study to the whole population and baldly presenting it as a fact, especially when there are other, contradictory figures available. Addding "however, only" was only done to highlight the variability of estimates. When you have one set of figures implying nearly 90% of suicides are mentally ill, and another set suggesting it's more like 30%, that's a contrast that bears having attention drawn to it. GideonF ( talk) 13:54, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
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Some medical professionals believe this stems from the fact that males are more likely to end their lives through effective violent means, while women primarily use less severe methods such as overdosing on medications.
Replace with:
Some medical professionals who? believe this stems from the fact that males are more likely to end their lives through effective violent means, while women primarily use less severe methods such as overdosing on medications. 71.235.54.248 ( talk) 11:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
On the first line: "A review found that 87% of persons committing suicide where diagnosable with a mental disorder..." should be were instead of where. 74.132.249.206 ( talk) 09:55, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Some good reviews
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Doc James (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
14:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)I just note the charicaturely weak advocacy section in favour of suicide as intellectual position in the World today! Why aren't people allowed their private rights escape from tortureous circumstances, the very escape from inhumanity into DEATH??? Why are they (the opposition) so obsessed with prevention when they can't f*cking get together the aftermath and transition into decent life for "the one they saved"???!!! No, there's something wrong in the World and to put up such ridicule as this "advocacy" is simply not tolerable!!! Lancet or not! LFOlsnes-Lea ( talk) 05:11, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Who are the suicide researchers really? Why are they researching so much, but never uttering a word of sentiment? Where are they? Who are they? What are their "respects"? What are their definite current affiliation? Are they fit to do suicide research? Is their integrity in place for the research to be conducted properly? This may also be added as aspect of suicide and the relevant research!!! Cheers! LFOlsnes-Lea ( talk) 05:22, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
High quality sources are required per WP:V and WP:MEDRS. We do not publish original research and we do not allow logical chains of though. Remember we are an encyclopedia simply trying to reflect the current state of knowledge. Look at some of our high quality articles like dengue fever to see how this is done. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 06:10, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone else think that the section on treatment would be better placed if it were moved to the article on suicidal ideation (which presently has no section on treatment)? By the time someone has committed suicide, and thus come under the scope of this article, treatment would appear to be out of the question. The condition (if that is the right word) whose treatment is discussed in the section is suicidal ideation, not suicide. GideonF ( talk) 17:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Cryptophreak ( talk) 06:33, 20 August 2012 (UTC): The word "commit" as used prominently in the article has a strictly negative connotation and is especially used in connection with crime. Suicide is not a crime in a number of significant jurisdictions including Canada, Ireland, and the Netherlands. It would therefore appear that the article is in error for using the word. Thoughts?
The term "died by suicide" is the correct terminology and I personally would like to see this reflected in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jennajacobson ( talk • contribs) 17:01, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Farber's Theory of Suicide S = f ( PIC.DEC.DIG.TS / Su.HFT ) where the key is ( / = dividend as on the calculator). S = Probability of Suicide PIC = Frequency of Production of Personalities Injured in Their Sense of Competence DEC = Demands for the Exercising of Competence DIG = Demands for Interpersonal Giving TS = Tolerance of Suicide Su = Availability of Succorance HFT = Degree of Hope in the Future Time Perspective of the Society (Where you are. You can change it.)
Your World of academia to go, Farber, Maurice L. Theory of Suicide. New York City, Funk & Wagnalls, 1968, p.75.) with help from Philosophy Now, by url:
http://philosophynow.org/issues/20/Sick_to_Death !
Yes, like that man right below here. Cheers! --
95.34.142.83 (
talk)
08:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
As far as I am concerned, committing suicide becomes more and more frequent as the world gets more and more developed. And I think that this article lacks a part where it is outlined that people commit suicide that more often compared to for instance 100 years ago or even better, even further back, but also what the causes are to this. These could be increasing pressure on the individual, like getting an education, people expecting other people to get an education, especially teenagers and people in the beginning of their 20's, expecting people to be a well integrated part of society etc., but sadly I think that many of these data do not even exist. If we take an example as Greenland, part of Denmark, it has undergone rapid social changes in the last 30-40 years, and I have heard that 100 years ago, Greenland had one of the lowest suicide rates of the entire world, compared to today, where it has one of the world's highest suicide rates! I am convinced that these rapid changes are the causes of Greenlands increased suicides, like I am also convinced that social changes in other parts of the world has helped to make the worldwide suicide rates increase with more than 60 % for the last 45 years. So basically, I would like that this article had a part where it was outlined that many of the world's suicides are causes of the modern world, because that is really what I think it is; if that is anywhere possible to get data about. I couldn't imagine that there would be very many suicides 100, 200 or 1000 years ago/100.000 inhabitants compared to today. Mrschjerbec ( talk) 14:55, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I wasn't completely sure about what the article exactly said, but what you said was what I meant. I have some sources, one of which speaks about Greenland as having the world's highest suicide rates: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/dispatches/2009/10/the_suicide_capital_of_the_world.html. In the article, I think it should be noted, that the suicide problems began in 1970, after Greenland started becoming a "modern society". The following is taken from the article: "Peter Bjerregaard from Denmark's National Institute of Public Health has noted that while Greenland's suicide problem began in 1970, almost all the deaths involved people born after 1950—the same year that Greenland began its transformation from remote colony to welfare state, as the Danes resettled residents to give them modern services and tuberculosis inoculations." Another text, http://en.mipi.nanoq.gl/Emner/~/media/mipi/MIPI_Viden_om_boern_og_unge/Projekter_og_rapportsamling/Opgaver_og_specialer/Modernization%20and%20mental%20health%20-%20Suicide%20among%20the%20Inuit%20in%20Greenland%20-%20Leineweber.ashx, also talks about Greenland's suicide rates. For one thing, it speaks about the transformation from a remote area to a modern society in 1953 at page 6-7, from "In 1953 Greenland had become an integrated part of the Kingdom of Denmark..." to "But the postwar years also accelerated the spread and use of alcohol and, most dramatically, the number of suicides." But there are really many websites about Greenland and suicides, both in Danish and English, also if you only take the most reliable ones. Probably also some about modernization and increasing rates of suicide besides some about Greenland, if you look closely, even though I think Greenland is a perfect example about what can happen if social changes come too quickly. I can try to find some more sources some time and eventually write something, if I find enough sources. Mrschjerbec ( talk) 12:24, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I will definitely read Wikipedia's guidelines before I start writing anything. Anything else would be a shame, if it gets removed. After I have read the guidelines and if I find any sources good enough, then I may start writing, because I think that suicides in modern society is an important subject. But thx! Mrschjerbec ( talk) 18:43, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
article needs updated, 2 us states (washington, oregon) now allow dr assisted suicide, some other countries as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.249.75 ( talk) 07:19, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
"Once upon time" even the SSB, http://www.ssb.no/english/, ("Statistics Norway", but The Central Statistics Bureau of Norway, given the Norwegian) of Norway reported on 5 year old kids "who suicided". Now, "these" are gone and probably, correctly, IMO, filed as malicious neglect / killing / murder, but it got me thinking H*ll (don't tell the Pope) of a lot, what in the World that could cause these lively people (boys and girls) to get these awful thoughts... THEN it started to roll, Childcare Units, Police, Pediatrics, Teachers, Kindergartens, all the God damn World... So what is it now? What is a suicide now? Care to share your view, please? -- LFOlsnes-Lea ( talk) 00:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
I was going to add some information but I was a little confused as how best to cite it, so was hoping someone else could add some details. There's been studies that have shown that people with psychiatric disorders are more likely to have nicotine addiction (eg. Nicotine Addiction and Other Psychiatric Disorders Tobacco Use in Special Populations: Psychiatric Disorders. Which may refute some of the information implying that people who smoke are more likely to commit suicide, but instead that smoking may be an indicator of having a psychiatric disorder (diagnosed or otherwise). Thanks Legios ( talk) 09:52, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
While people with a mental diagnosis (such as schizophrenia) may have a higher probability of killing themselves, this does not mean a rational/intelligent person is incapable of suicide. Notably, patohologizasion is something I avoid completely when conversing with suicidal individuals; it can be phenomenally condescending, offensive (and for good reason in my mind.) LLLookAtYouHacker ( talk) 15:05, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
In the section Epidemiology/Alcohol and drug use it is stated that "About 15% of alcoholics commit suicide". This doesn't sound right. Above that it is stated that "Alcoholics are 5 to 20 times more likely to kill themselves". If the average rate of suicide is about 10/100,000, being an alcoholic would raise that rate to 50-200/100,000 alcoholics, not 15,000/100,000 or 15%. What am I missing? 89.181.215.33 ( talk) 12:58, 28 December 2012 (UTC) Filipe Ribeiro
I realize this has been discussed; it's time for us to add the link. We've lost a well-known Wikipedian User:AaronSw to suicide, and we shouldn't lose any others. -- ESP ( talk) 17:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
I just did a few queries, and I only see "special" content when searching for "suicide" on Yahoo and Ask.com. I don't see it on Google or Bing. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline#In popular culture says that it was in other places... I don't see it on Facebook or Twitter, either. -- ESP ( talk) 20:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
This article is packed full of primary sources. One of the first efforts needed will be to remove and replace them with secondary sources. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 04:14, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
The "Bile Bear" anecdote is almost certainly false. While no doubt a horrid practice, this anecdote is an urban legend, appearing in a series of circular articles a few years ago citing a single, unidentified witness as having watched a mother bear "strangle" its cub to save it from a life of misery, and then "commit suicide" afterward by bashing its own brains out against a wall. 219.101.196.2 ( talk) 10:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)Vainamoinen
It appears that this article has a lot of stuff in it that is contradicted by the sited source. For example we have:
We state "The U.S. Surgeon General states that screening to detect the risk of suicide may be one of the most effective means of preventing suicide in children and adolescents" however the ref in question states [17]
"In effect, indiscriminate suicide awareness efforts and overly inclusive screening lists may promote suicide as a possible solution to ordinary distress or suggest that suicidal thoughts and behaviors are normal responsest o stress4" and "Because suicide screening in the general population currently
is not feasible, it is especially important for suicide prevention
programs to include broader approaches that benefit the whole population
as well as efforts focused on smaller". Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 12:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
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help)Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:16, 9 February 2013 (UTC)
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The sentence after citation 58 under "Rational Suicide" contains the wrong form of the word "Their", and uses the word that holds the meaning of a place instead of the proper one. 72.51.134.179 ( talk) 01:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Pyrotec ( talk · contribs) 21:08, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
I've now read through this nomination quite quickly, but I've not checked any citations nor copyright status of images. However, this article has the "look and feel" of a GA, so I would anticipate that it should gain GA-status by the end of this review.
I fixed a few "trivial problems" whilst reading through it rather than list them here to be fixed by someone else.
I'm now going to go through the article in more depth, starting at the Definitions sections and finishing with the WP:Lead. This is likely to take another day or so and in this part of the review I will mostly be commenting on "problems", if any as I find them. Pyrotec ( talk) 17:23, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
...Stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 17:14, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Note: File:Suicidecases.png had a {{ Uncategorized}} flag so I added the category Category:Suicide to it. Change it if you wish. Pyrotec ( talk) 19:49, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
...Stopping for now. To be continued. Pyrotec ( talk) 22:03, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
An interesting, informative and comprehensive article. I learnt a lot about this topic as a result of reading through it several times during this review.
I'm awarding this article GA-status. Congratulations on a fine article. I see from the {{ articlehistory}} that back in May 2005 this article was an unsuccessful WP:FAC candidate. I believe that the current version of the article could make FA, but to get a wider-view WP:PR might be the next step. Pyrotec ( talk) 20:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
In the section on "Notable Cases", "Saipan in" is missing a space and so the link shows as "Saipanin". 67.149.106.20 ( talk) 03:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
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I have found two grammatical errors in the article "Suicide" which ruin the flow of the article.
The following: Suicide also known as completed suicide is the "act of taking one's own life". Should be changed to: Suicide, also known as completed suicide, is the "act of taking one's own life".
The following: For example suicide rates have been found to be greater in households with firearms than those without them. Should be changed to: For example, suicide rates have been found to be greater in households with firearms than those without them.
Ttenner (
talk)
00:51, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
psychiatric unit there life time risk of completed suicide is about 8.6% change to their — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.39.175.28 ( talk) 12:30, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
So if 50% of people have a mental illness at some point [3] and only 30% of people who commit suicide have a mental illness that would mean that mental illness is protective against suicide. Which part of this source supports the statement in question [20] Can you provide a page number? Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 15:09, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
In the interest of dispelling myths propounded by popular culture and the media, I think its important to borrow certain elements of the "Seasonal Suicide" section in the Epidemiology of suicide sub-article to the main Suicide article. The myth of increased suicide rates during the "winter holidays" serves to misinform behavioral health care professionals and the people in general. This misinformation results in a decrease in vigilance after the winter holidays by the very people that support those that are at high risk for suicide. Moreover, the best available data shows that the suicide rate peaks during spring and early summer, and that is very important to know. I propose that the following is mirrored on the main Suicide article:
The idea that suicide is more common during the winter holidays (including Christmas in the northern hemisphere) is actually a myth, generally reinforced by media coverage associating suicide with the holiday season. The National Center for Health Statistics found that suicides drop during the winter months, and peak during spring and early summer.
Please object if you feel this is unnecessary. Thank you all. Evangelos Giakoumatos ( talk) 13:08, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a problematic division between the categories "Suicide by gas" and "Suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning". The former seems to be intended to cover suicide by town gas, but carbon monoxide is the main poisonous ingredient in town gas. If there is a significant division here it is between people who used town gas (usually by sticking their head in the oven) and who used a car exhaust in a confined space, but in both cases carbon dioxide poisoning is the cause of death. I am not aware of any other poisonous gas which has been used in suicides to any significant extent. I suggest we merge the two categories, but what to? PatGallacher ( talk) 11:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
An interested paper in JAMA [25]. Not a review but an interesting look at rational death. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 12:29, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I reviewed many of the previous talk items over the years on why the incorrect and non-neutral word "commit" is used so profusely in this article. They are not convincing. Additionally, this debate has evolved considerably in that time. The word clearly has a negative connotation, and is generally rejected among community mental health professionals. See my recently reverted edit, the reversion of which also deleted important counterbalance information on media guidelines for reporting suicide.
That media uses this terminology, or that is has a lot of Google hits, or that you personally do not take offence, are not academic arguments nor ones worthy of an unbiased exegesis. The fact is, one does not say that he or she is going to go commit dinner, or commit some work, or commit a shower. Even in terms of health impacts, one does not commit smoking, or commit a DNR order, or commit a heart attack. "Commit" denotes criminality, and suicide is not a crime for the English speaking populations which would read this article. Even for those jurisdictions where the act of suicide remains a crime, leading organizations are working to make changes.
The World Health Organization, among other expert sources, recommend against the language used in this article.
See: [26], [27], [28], [29], [30], [31], [32], [33]
If someone can provide arguments actually in favor of using the present language (with a little more depth than "because a lot of people do it,") I think that the article would benefit from such a critical analysis. Markhenick ( talk) 17:09, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Note: I have notified WikiProject Death of this discussion. Ladyof Shalott 22:49, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
GideonF that does not make much sense. Markhenick is arguing in favour of removing/avoiding stigmatising language and has asked you to support your argument in favour of stigmatisation with some evidence. Do you have any? Djapa Owen ( talk) 13:30, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Drmies Thank you for making an actual argument! Although... now I'll pick at it a little (or a lot) :P
The WHO report which you feel says nothing on the topic in fact models appropriate language for this subject by how they use the terms "complete" or attempt suicide, but never "commit".
The second piece states: "The expression “to commit suicide” is morally imprecise. Its connotation of illegality and dishonour intensifies the stigma attached to the one who has died as well as to those who have been traumatized by this loss. It does nothing to convey the fact that suicide is the tragic outcome of severe depressive illness and thus, like any other affliction of the body or mind, has in itself no moral weight." It doesn't have to convince you, as it speaks to the history of the term and the experience of those the terminology affects.
The "activist newsletter" to which you refer is an information sheet from the Centre for Suicide Prevention. Granted, they have an obvious agenda of suicide prevention (which is also philosophically and empirically defensible, but that's a different discussion). However, they also provide some academic sources to support their argument.
The CDC recommendations were coauthored by six other major health bodies, including the Surgeon General, and collaborated on with three other international bodies, including the World Health Organization. Again, you personally may not be convinced, but - respectfully - by what comparative right does that make any difference at all? The biggest point is that they also collectively support the assertion that "commit" has a connotation of criminality or sinfulness - a judgement - which should be evidence enough for the exclusion of the term.
In terms of the grammar, a decision must be made. If suicide is an action, "to suicide" is entirely appropriate. If it is a thing, "to complete suicide" makes the most sense. If it is a cause of death, "to die by suicide" would be accurate. Under no circumstance (except perhaps the Indian example above) is the term "commit" more neutral than the various alternatives.
The proposed change is not an effort to prevent suicides (I also have some issues with media guidelines myself). These sources support the fact that the term "commit suicide" contains a judgement, which thereby makes it not neutral, which is reason to change it. Markhenick ( talk) 16:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Note: I have submitted this discussion for initial level dispute resolution. Markhenick ( talk) 19:39, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Dropping in after seeing the issue raised at DRN: I don't have any reliable sources or such to introduce beyond my BA in English Writing (woo-hoo), but personally I've never considered the "committed" in "committed suicide" to be stigmatizing language, and I would be surprised if I know anyone who has...and I'd probably ask them why they consider it stigmatizing. The notion that that word choice suggests criminality is, to my mind, bollocks; people commit to courses of action both good and ill all the time. I'll be quite curious to see how this develops. Doniago ( talk) 20:00, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
What language should we use to discuss the act of suicide? Ladyof Shalott 22:07, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Random comment - Just browsin around and thought I'd throw this out there. For programmers commit means to enact a permanent change. In that context the connotation is neutral. Just a thought.
PraetorianFury (
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19:22, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
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I've reread everything contributed here, and there have in fact been various ways forward suggested in the discussion above. Any or all of the other terms (ie. to die by suicide, to complete suicide, to suicide, to kill oneself, to take one's life, etc) may by used in combination with commit suicide where it is appropriate and fits with the flow and style of the existing wording. Another option is just to create a separate section which in one go attempts to reflect the complexity and detail of this discussion. The latter option is probably the cleanest, since it would leave the rest of the article as is. I would be happy to write the initial one, and then you can all have at it.
Regarding the elevation in dispute resolution: I'm sure some are quite adept at bullying others into accepting their consensus - this is well known about these talk pages, and I was prepared for that. I am also sensitive to the fact that it must be quite frustrating for you to encounter someone on whom that has virtually no impact. Let's keep the discussion focused on the issue itself, however, rather than on whether or not it is a worthy cause to continue to push this issue forward. It is. If you don't see that, or don't agree, that's ok. You don't have to. Plenty of legitimate arguments and sources have been provided to support a departure from the present form of this article. That demands deeper consideration, however it comes about. Markhenick ( talk) 11:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
By way of a progress update: I am working on the preliminaries for a draft section that I will post here for review which addresses this issue. As suggested, this should make the proposal more clear. I've started by compiling a table of 30 or so solid references (the reliability of which being determined by the number of times the specific reference was cited when available, or the relative prominence of the publishing organization). I have extracted relevant quotations, and obtained working links for each. The next step will be to distill this information into a workable draft. Markhenick ( talk) 21:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
If the WHO recommends against the use of the phrase "commit suicide", this is probably worth a mention in the article, something along the lines of "Although the phrase "commit suicide" is standard English and widely used in (news media, vernacular, etc.) its use is discouraged by (WHO, etc.) because (...)." Given the enormous scope of the article, more than a single sentence on the terminology currently in vogue among professionals in the field would seem to be undue weight. A full section on the recommended terminology and the reasons for its use would probably make a fine addition to the Suicide prevention article, which discusses treatment in more depth. (BTW, beyond reliability, the number of times an article is cited is often used as a measure of an article's influence in a field. I believe such citation counts are often limited to citations in reputable journals. This is an imperfect measure to be sure, for example an article can be cited many times in order to refute it, but Markhenick appears to be doing a pretty careful analysis and should be able to avoid such traps.)-- Wikimedes ( talk) 20:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
According to Fairbairn, “The most common way of speaking about suicide is to talk of its being ‘committed’.” [1] In fact, “committed suicide” or similar descriptions continue to be the norm in both scholarly research and journalism. [2] [3]. Advocacy groups have suggested that this phrasing has become so entrenched in English vocabulary that it has gained “a naturalness which implies a deceptive harmlessness.” [2] Fairburn further acknowledged the difficulty in finding alternative means of referring to suicide which “are neither clumsy nor misleading,” [1]
However, while common, Lebacqz & Englehardt argue that referring to suicide as an act committed may be hazardous to ethical clarity. [4] Others have also argued in favour of more exact language regarding suicide, both in the interest of moral and ethical precision, [3] [5] as well as scientific and clinical clarity. [6] [7] A United States Navy report urges against the use of the term “committed suicide” on similar grounds, asserting that "suicide is better understood when framed objectively within the context of behavioral health." [8]
The lack of clarity in English suicide terminology has been attributed to the connotations of crime, dishonour, and sin that suicide carries.
[9]Cite error: The <ref>
tag has too many names (see the
help page). The German term Selbstmord begehen is similar, denoting an act of commission.
[5] Common language “portrays suicide as a ‘crime’ to be ‘committed’ as is, for example, murder.”
[4] This is despite the fact that suicide is largely no longer a crime,
[3]
[10] and that, as noted suicidologist Samuel Wallace wrote, “all suicide is neither abhorrent nor not; insane or not; selfish or not; rational or not; justifiable or not.”
[11]
Canadian suicide prevention activist, P. Bonny Ball, commented that criminal implications of suicide are a carryover from the Middle Ages when suicide was considered “both illegal and sinful by the laws and religions of the time.” [12] Sommer-Rotenberg had similarly argued that “the act of self-killing was considered criminal because it was perceived as transgressing the moral authority of God and the righteous feelings of humankind.” [5]
Since “committing suicide” was akin to committing murder or rape, it has been argued that they continue to be linked in some languages. [2] However, this common English expression is not universal: “By contrast the French se suicider and the Italian uccidersi are reflexive. Likewise in Hebrew: l’hit’abbed, ‘to self-destroy,’ is something one does to oneself, with no implication of criminality.” [5]
Various alternatives have been proposed to clarify the language regarding the act of suicide from a variety of sectors – including government, journalism, community mental health advocates, and the scientific community. Terms such as “death by suicide,” and “non-fatal suicide attempt” have been suggested to be more objective. [8] The World Health Organization has agreed that these terms “are more accurate and less open to misinterpretation.” [13] The National Institute of Mental Health, the largest research organization in the world specializing in mental illness, also recommends such phrasing is “completed suicide,” or “kill him/herself.” [14]
As it applies to a direct clinical context, the widely cited Beck Classification of Suicidal Behaviour exclusively uses the terminology of “complete suicide.” [15] This classification was revisited in a number of notable documents (such as the Operational Classification for Determination of Suicide, the ‘Tower of Babel’ nomenclature, the WHO/EURO definitions, the Columbia University suicidality classification, the CDC self-directed violence surveillance system, and the Denver VA VISN 19 MIRECC self-directed violence classification system). [16]
A consensus is gaining momentum that suicide is a public heath concern to be prevented, rather than a criminal one to be punished, either by law or by language. [17] [18] [19] [2] To that end, many other options and guidelines have been suggested. [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] As it concerns media reporting of suicide, a key indicator of guideline influence on language as it is practiced in that context reports including one by the Annenberg School for Communication's Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania suggests that there is "evidence of a change in reporting practices following the release of the new media guidelines” [26]
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May I suggest a pause, followed by examination of the presumably yet to be created final article, and then a discussion of the sentence? It is beneficial to see the end product before designing the link. Do you have a hyperlink, please to what I presume to be an Articles for Creation article? Fiddle Faddle 19:33, 21 May 2013 (UTC)