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Saschaporsche, please bring your further grievances, if any, on the infobox summary here, because the dispute is disturbing the article's stability. Also pinging Ahunt for courtesy. Gerald WL 05:16, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
The summary in the infobox should shortly state the main reason why the accident happened.
In this accident there was a technical failure (autothrottle failure) which led to an "out of control" (see: Loss of control (aeronautics) / Aircraft upset) situation which was never improperly recognised and the upset was not recovered.
To simply state "autothrottle failure" is incomplete! The autothrottle had failed on this aircraft multiple times during previous flights, and this problem never led to an accident. (see the accident report Final report),
However User:Ahunt disagrees with this and simply reinstates "autothrottle failure". and states ""Accident causes are often several and complex: they should be left for the article body. Cherry-picking some of them for the summary (e.g. pilot error) is likely to breach neutrality."
However i'm not "cherry picking", i do want to state the main reason.
For reference i quote the accident report Final report. In section 4.2 there is clearly stated as a recommendation in bullitpoint 3 and 4 : Sriwijaya Air Issued the following notice to pilots on 20 January 2021:
This clearly points to the main reason why this accident happened; loss of control . Therefore my suggestion would be to state "loss of control due to autothrottle failure" or simply "loss of control".
I do hope that we will see more opinions on this, since it is important that the main reason why the accident happened should be stated in the "summary". Kind regards Saschaporsche ( talk) 14:44, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Brief summary of the occurrence. State the fate of the aircraft, if not obvious from the title (e.g. crashed, disappeared etc) and any relevant circumstances. Accident causes are often several and complex: they should be left for the article body. Cherry-picking some of them for the summary (e.g. pilot error) is likely to breach neutrality.The actual article, if you read the whole thing, makes it clear that the direct cause was an autothrottle failure, but that there were complex and longstanding maintenance issues, a suspected erroneous spoiler sensor, damaged spoiler linkage or improperly rigged sensor, inadequate pilot training leading to a sub-standard flight crew reaction and subsequent handling and finally a widespread culture issue at the airline, including a failure of the Quality, Safety and Security Department. To change this to "loss of control due to autothrottle failure" or "loss of control" is doing exactly what the documentation says not to do, cherry picking one small part of the causes.- Ahunt ( talk) 14:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
After hearing more opinions i do have the impression that there is a majority (3 - 1) here that agrees that simply stating "autothrottle failure" is not the correct thing for the summary. Suggestions to change it have been:
Can we agree on one of these statements? If so, which one? Kind regards Saschaporsche ( talk) 16:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Can we come to a conclusion on what to put in the infobox? kind regards Saschaporsche ( talk) 15:37, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sriwijaya Air Flight 182 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 7 days |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
A news item involving Sriwijaya Air Flight 182 was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 9 January 2021. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that a map or maps be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Wikipedians in Indonesia may be able to help! |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
Saschaporsche, please bring your further grievances, if any, on the infobox summary here, because the dispute is disturbing the article's stability. Also pinging Ahunt for courtesy. Gerald WL 05:16, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
The summary in the infobox should shortly state the main reason why the accident happened.
In this accident there was a technical failure (autothrottle failure) which led to an "out of control" (see: Loss of control (aeronautics) / Aircraft upset) situation which was never improperly recognised and the upset was not recovered.
To simply state "autothrottle failure" is incomplete! The autothrottle had failed on this aircraft multiple times during previous flights, and this problem never led to an accident. (see the accident report Final report),
However User:Ahunt disagrees with this and simply reinstates "autothrottle failure". and states ""Accident causes are often several and complex: they should be left for the article body. Cherry-picking some of them for the summary (e.g. pilot error) is likely to breach neutrality."
However i'm not "cherry picking", i do want to state the main reason.
For reference i quote the accident report Final report. In section 4.2 there is clearly stated as a recommendation in bullitpoint 3 and 4 : Sriwijaya Air Issued the following notice to pilots on 20 January 2021:
This clearly points to the main reason why this accident happened; loss of control . Therefore my suggestion would be to state "loss of control due to autothrottle failure" or simply "loss of control".
I do hope that we will see more opinions on this, since it is important that the main reason why the accident happened should be stated in the "summary". Kind regards Saschaporsche ( talk) 14:44, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Brief summary of the occurrence. State the fate of the aircraft, if not obvious from the title (e.g. crashed, disappeared etc) and any relevant circumstances. Accident causes are often several and complex: they should be left for the article body. Cherry-picking some of them for the summary (e.g. pilot error) is likely to breach neutrality.The actual article, if you read the whole thing, makes it clear that the direct cause was an autothrottle failure, but that there were complex and longstanding maintenance issues, a suspected erroneous spoiler sensor, damaged spoiler linkage or improperly rigged sensor, inadequate pilot training leading to a sub-standard flight crew reaction and subsequent handling and finally a widespread culture issue at the airline, including a failure of the Quality, Safety and Security Department. To change this to "loss of control due to autothrottle failure" or "loss of control" is doing exactly what the documentation says not to do, cherry picking one small part of the causes.- Ahunt ( talk) 14:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
After hearing more opinions i do have the impression that there is a majority (3 - 1) here that agrees that simply stating "autothrottle failure" is not the correct thing for the summary. Suggestions to change it have been:
Can we agree on one of these statements? If so, which one? Kind regards Saschaporsche ( talk) 16:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Can we come to a conclusion on what to put in the infobox? kind regards Saschaporsche ( talk) 15:37, 20 August 2023 (UTC)