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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Colon v1.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2021 and 8 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): JTorre23.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Scientiom is repeatedly blanking material that is referenced, because apparently it does not sit well with his point of view. Please note again that the scope of this article is "Societal attitudes TOWARD homosexuality" but his version of the article is skewing the information and is not giving an honest depiction of the full range of "Societal attitudes TOWARD homosexuality" to be found on planet Earth. "IDON'TLIKEIT" is NOT a valid reason for blanking what the references say. The following information needs to be restored for balance and more points of view:
Some opponents of the movement, such as Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition, say that gay people are seeking special rights, not equal rights, and that the movement should not be referred to as a civil rights movement. They argue, for example, that in seeking the right to marry members of the same sex, gay people are seeking a special right for themselves and disregarding the fact that polygamists and other groups defined by sexual behavior do not have this right either.[ref] Netzhammer, Mel, "'The Gay Agenda' and 'Gay Rights, Special Rights' and the Construction of a Homosexual Role" at Buffalo State [/ref] Til Eulenspiegel / talk/ 12:27, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
The entire language of this article is being rewritten from a discernible Point of View that will be difficult for probably at least 95% of people to identify with. Language written from a particular point-of-view is forbidden by the NPOV policy. Articles about controversial subjects are required to be neutral since many people feel strongly on both sides of the controversy. For these reasons, I will be adding a POV check to the article. Til Eulenspiegel / talk/ 12:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Uhh NO RObotNinjaParrot, it is so definitively over the edge for the pro homosexuality that this article should be labeled how we make any who differs our opinion on Gays into pariahs, haters or fools, even a note to how psychology changed its definition from Mental Disorder to acceptable behavior in modern society
This is totally a POV article and as such is endemic in the Wikipedia compendiu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.226.162 ( talk) 19:21, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
This file shows a map with color encodings of the result of a formula. The formula is uncited, and appears to the the WP:OR of a Wikipedia contributor. What source says that this particular set of indices is a good measure of the "Status of gay persons" Who says that some indices are to be rated only one-third as much as others? Also, who chose the particular moment in time to rate these issues along these various scales? And who says what level of the sum of these indices represents "not accepted" vs "evolving" vs "integrated"? For the matter of that, where are the sources that even give the values of the indices. I prefer to assume that these have been quoted accurately, but giving the actual sources might show up reliability issues. Even assuming that the values of the indices have been accurately used in creating this graphic, choosing this particular combination is a violation of WP:SYNTH unless there is a cited source for the formula, and if there is that source should be properly named. I have therefore removed the image and its caption from the article. DES (talk) 23:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I just added all the sources regarding the map. It has actually already been published by a European newspaper, OneEurope. It is a well-known journal that could be considered authoritative source. http://one-europe.info/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aless2899 ( talk • contribs)
An editor has repeatedly tried to delete a reference to relative social acceptance of homosexuality in the Philippines, citing this image as a reference showing that it's not. However, our information as presented is sourced, and how the country votes at the UN would be a reflection of governmental, not societal, views. I invite the editor to try to make the case here and gain consensus before attempting to repeat the edit. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 00:20, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't want to get into any extended debate, but it seems surprising that the "Association with child abuse and pedophilia" makes no mention of the significant ILGA controversies. Many anti-gay activists certainly mention them frequently... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:43, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Pew oversample Arabs in their survey of Israel. Quote from the report (page 13): "Multi-stage cluster sample stratified by Israel’s six districts, urbanity, and socioeconomic status, with an oversample of Arabs," "Sample size: 922 (504 Jews, 406 Arabs, 12 others)." Note that Israeli population is around 75% Jewish, 20% Arab and 5% other. I'm removing Pew data from article. -- Triggerhippie4 ( talk) 07:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
When considering this issue of homosexuality, I can not seem to find an answer to one of my questions. All living things have the ability of reproduction with the exception of gay individuals, Why? For the lack of a better term... mother nature during the time of creation gave all living things the ability to reproduce to insure the continuation of all things created except gay individuals. That seems to be a contradiction of purpose, why did mother nature exclude homosexuality from all the rest of living things and why hasn't homosexuality become extinct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.107.225.70 ( talk) 08:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
As seen here and here, I have twice reverted Colon v1's deletion of statistics. Colon v1, who appears to be a WP:Student editor, called the statistics outdated. I stated, "The removed material addresses different demographics, which is important. If any of this is outdated, add sources to show/replace that material."
Although Colon v1 added material in place of the removed content, Colon v1 has done nothing to replace some of the different demographics that the original content addresses. What proof is there that these statistics are outdated? Old does not always mean outdated. Sometimes, especially when it comes to research on sexual orientation and beliefs about it, the most up-to-date research is old research. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 06:55, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Furthermore, a survey from 2011 is not that old, especially in terms of societal attitudes toward homosexuality, and Colon v1 seemed to leave some old content in while removing other old content. I don't see how the content that Colon v1 removed is any less deserving of representation or is irrelevant ( another term used by Colon v1). I restored this bit that Colon v1 added; I didn't mean to remove the recent material. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 07:10, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
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"The empirical research shows that sexual orientation does not affect the likelihood that people will abuse children.[88][89][90] Many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.[88]"
despite the (overwhelming) facts that show same-sex molestation is disproportionate to the percentage of homosexuals in the population (see "The Gay Report" among others), this is rejected by Herek et al on the basis that same-sex molestation says nothing about "adult sexual orientation" -- in other words, a man who molests little boys is not, technically, a homosexual?
am I the only one who thinks this is logically a very, very weak argument? and it seems to only come from Herek and other academics with an obvious pro-gay bias... first off, this interesting theory, means a teenager can't be gay because he is not an adult -- if a 16 year old adolescent male in high school
is in a relationship with another 16 year old adolescent male, neither of them qualifies as gay because, like an adult child molester, we know nothing of his "adult sexual orientation" ... no?
and so, correct me if i'm wrong. if we can say, for a second, that a man who has sex with a boy is engaged in same-sex intercourse, thus "homosexual" sex (not the position of the article or of high academia, but a view shared by *many* people if not the majority), then same-sex molestation is totally disproportionate to the population of homosexuals?
am i wrong? what am i missing?
it looks like this whole business about "adult" orientation is a very intellectually dishonest way to circumvent the obvious statistics that stare us in the face. see "the Gay Report" which was actually published by gay researchers and widely accepted by the gay community.
104.244.230.240 ( talk) 10:39, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Isn't the lengthy section on historical cultures redundant with LGBT history? Not to mention history of homosexuality, homosexuality, and the articles on homosexuality in each culture. It seems it would make more sense having this article focus on the modern world. -Crossroads- ( talk) 19:06, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Abhishekiucaa, stop attempting to add this content without discussion. At Draft talk:Homosexuality and likelihood of being a sexual molester, I stated, "Issues with this draft include the title, WP:Editorializing, WP:Synthesis, some poor sourcing, and a lack of WP:MEDRS-compliant sources. If it were created, I would take it to AfD and suggest a merge in that AfD or propose a merge on the article's talk page. But only unproblematic material would be merged to Societal attitudes toward homosexuality#Association with child abuse and pedophilia." I also told you, "it needs work and certainly a trim before it's added [to this article]. I suggest that at [this talk page], you propose adding some material from your draft [here]. I also suggest that you move your drat to your own sandbox (meaning copying and pasting what's in it to your sandbox). And then editors can work on tweaking the material, either by advising you or directly editing your sandbox. We can come to a consensus that way. You can then discard this article draft."
Your draft was delclined, and I don't see that you fixed any issues with the draft. You should not keep adding this contested content without consensus. See WP:Consensus. And also see WP:Edit warring. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 02:36, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
This section references a website that discusses modern views based on ancient scripture, not ancient Israeli views. The website cited also uses translated bibles as a resource, many of which are known to have intentional changes made during translation (for example, the King James bible). This section should be removed or rewritten with a source that actually discusses ancient Israeli views toward homosexuality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karandora ( talk • contribs) 03:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Delete the fact Indonesia " as the largest Muslim nation by population " as Indonesia won't become the largest Muslim country anymore soon ( Estimated in 2030) https://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/ , Will be replaced by Pakistan >>>>> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bayu Fuller ( talk • contribs) 14:20, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
This is the
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Societal attitudes toward homosexuality article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Societal attitudes toward homosexuality. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Societal attitudes toward homosexuality at the Reference desk. |
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Colon v1.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 August 2021 and 8 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): JTorre23.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 09:41, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Scientiom is repeatedly blanking material that is referenced, because apparently it does not sit well with his point of view. Please note again that the scope of this article is "Societal attitudes TOWARD homosexuality" but his version of the article is skewing the information and is not giving an honest depiction of the full range of "Societal attitudes TOWARD homosexuality" to be found on planet Earth. "IDON'TLIKEIT" is NOT a valid reason for blanking what the references say. The following information needs to be restored for balance and more points of view:
Some opponents of the movement, such as Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition, say that gay people are seeking special rights, not equal rights, and that the movement should not be referred to as a civil rights movement. They argue, for example, that in seeking the right to marry members of the same sex, gay people are seeking a special right for themselves and disregarding the fact that polygamists and other groups defined by sexual behavior do not have this right either.[ref] Netzhammer, Mel, "'The Gay Agenda' and 'Gay Rights, Special Rights' and the Construction of a Homosexual Role" at Buffalo State [/ref] Til Eulenspiegel / talk/ 12:27, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
The entire language of this article is being rewritten from a discernible Point of View that will be difficult for probably at least 95% of people to identify with. Language written from a particular point-of-view is forbidden by the NPOV policy. Articles about controversial subjects are required to be neutral since many people feel strongly on both sides of the controversy. For these reasons, I will be adding a POV check to the article. Til Eulenspiegel / talk/ 12:36, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Uhh NO RObotNinjaParrot, it is so definitively over the edge for the pro homosexuality that this article should be labeled how we make any who differs our opinion on Gays into pariahs, haters or fools, even a note to how psychology changed its definition from Mental Disorder to acceptable behavior in modern society
This is totally a POV article and as such is endemic in the Wikipedia compendiu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.226.162 ( talk) 19:21, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
This file shows a map with color encodings of the result of a formula. The formula is uncited, and appears to the the WP:OR of a Wikipedia contributor. What source says that this particular set of indices is a good measure of the "Status of gay persons" Who says that some indices are to be rated only one-third as much as others? Also, who chose the particular moment in time to rate these issues along these various scales? And who says what level of the sum of these indices represents "not accepted" vs "evolving" vs "integrated"? For the matter of that, where are the sources that even give the values of the indices. I prefer to assume that these have been quoted accurately, but giving the actual sources might show up reliability issues. Even assuming that the values of the indices have been accurately used in creating this graphic, choosing this particular combination is a violation of WP:SYNTH unless there is a cited source for the formula, and if there is that source should be properly named. I have therefore removed the image and its caption from the article. DES (talk) 23:20, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi, I just added all the sources regarding the map. It has actually already been published by a European newspaper, OneEurope. It is a well-known journal that could be considered authoritative source. http://one-europe.info/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aless2899 ( talk • contribs)
An editor has repeatedly tried to delete a reference to relative social acceptance of homosexuality in the Philippines, citing this image as a reference showing that it's not. However, our information as presented is sourced, and how the country votes at the UN would be a reflection of governmental, not societal, views. I invite the editor to try to make the case here and gain consensus before attempting to repeat the edit. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 00:20, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't want to get into any extended debate, but it seems surprising that the "Association with child abuse and pedophilia" makes no mention of the significant ILGA controversies. Many anti-gay activists certainly mention them frequently... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:43, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Pew oversample Arabs in their survey of Israel. Quote from the report (page 13): "Multi-stage cluster sample stratified by Israel’s six districts, urbanity, and socioeconomic status, with an oversample of Arabs," "Sample size: 922 (504 Jews, 406 Arabs, 12 others)." Note that Israeli population is around 75% Jewish, 20% Arab and 5% other. I'm removing Pew data from article. -- Triggerhippie4 ( talk) 07:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
When considering this issue of homosexuality, I can not seem to find an answer to one of my questions. All living things have the ability of reproduction with the exception of gay individuals, Why? For the lack of a better term... mother nature during the time of creation gave all living things the ability to reproduce to insure the continuation of all things created except gay individuals. That seems to be a contradiction of purpose, why did mother nature exclude homosexuality from all the rest of living things and why hasn't homosexuality become extinct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.107.225.70 ( talk) 08:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
As seen here and here, I have twice reverted Colon v1's deletion of statistics. Colon v1, who appears to be a WP:Student editor, called the statistics outdated. I stated, "The removed material addresses different demographics, which is important. If any of this is outdated, add sources to show/replace that material."
Although Colon v1 added material in place of the removed content, Colon v1 has done nothing to replace some of the different demographics that the original content addresses. What proof is there that these statistics are outdated? Old does not always mean outdated. Sometimes, especially when it comes to research on sexual orientation and beliefs about it, the most up-to-date research is old research. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 06:55, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Furthermore, a survey from 2011 is not that old, especially in terms of societal attitudes toward homosexuality, and Colon v1 seemed to leave some old content in while removing other old content. I don't see how the content that Colon v1 removed is any less deserving of representation or is irrelevant ( another term used by Colon v1). I restored this bit that Colon v1 added; I didn't mean to remove the recent material. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 07:10, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
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"The empirical research shows that sexual orientation does not affect the likelihood that people will abuse children.[88][89][90] Many child molesters cannot be characterized as having an adult sexual orientation at all; they are fixated on children.[88]"
despite the (overwhelming) facts that show same-sex molestation is disproportionate to the percentage of homosexuals in the population (see "The Gay Report" among others), this is rejected by Herek et al on the basis that same-sex molestation says nothing about "adult sexual orientation" -- in other words, a man who molests little boys is not, technically, a homosexual?
am I the only one who thinks this is logically a very, very weak argument? and it seems to only come from Herek and other academics with an obvious pro-gay bias... first off, this interesting theory, means a teenager can't be gay because he is not an adult -- if a 16 year old adolescent male in high school
is in a relationship with another 16 year old adolescent male, neither of them qualifies as gay because, like an adult child molester, we know nothing of his "adult sexual orientation" ... no?
and so, correct me if i'm wrong. if we can say, for a second, that a man who has sex with a boy is engaged in same-sex intercourse, thus "homosexual" sex (not the position of the article or of high academia, but a view shared by *many* people if not the majority), then same-sex molestation is totally disproportionate to the population of homosexuals?
am i wrong? what am i missing?
it looks like this whole business about "adult" orientation is a very intellectually dishonest way to circumvent the obvious statistics that stare us in the face. see "the Gay Report" which was actually published by gay researchers and widely accepted by the gay community.
104.244.230.240 ( talk) 10:39, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Isn't the lengthy section on historical cultures redundant with LGBT history? Not to mention history of homosexuality, homosexuality, and the articles on homosexuality in each culture. It seems it would make more sense having this article focus on the modern world. -Crossroads- ( talk) 19:06, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Abhishekiucaa, stop attempting to add this content without discussion. At Draft talk:Homosexuality and likelihood of being a sexual molester, I stated, "Issues with this draft include the title, WP:Editorializing, WP:Synthesis, some poor sourcing, and a lack of WP:MEDRS-compliant sources. If it were created, I would take it to AfD and suggest a merge in that AfD or propose a merge on the article's talk page. But only unproblematic material would be merged to Societal attitudes toward homosexuality#Association with child abuse and pedophilia." I also told you, "it needs work and certainly a trim before it's added [to this article]. I suggest that at [this talk page], you propose adding some material from your draft [here]. I also suggest that you move your drat to your own sandbox (meaning copying and pasting what's in it to your sandbox). And then editors can work on tweaking the material, either by advising you or directly editing your sandbox. We can come to a consensus that way. You can then discard this article draft."
Your draft was delclined, and I don't see that you fixed any issues with the draft. You should not keep adding this contested content without consensus. See WP:Consensus. And also see WP:Edit warring. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 02:36, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
This section references a website that discusses modern views based on ancient scripture, not ancient Israeli views. The website cited also uses translated bibles as a resource, many of which are known to have intentional changes made during translation (for example, the King James bible). This section should be removed or rewritten with a source that actually discusses ancient Israeli views toward homosexuality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karandora ( talk • contribs) 03:09, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Delete the fact Indonesia " as the largest Muslim nation by population " as Indonesia won't become the largest Muslim country anymore soon ( Estimated in 2030) https://www.pewforum.org/2011/01/27/the-future-of-the-global-muslim-population/ , Will be replaced by Pakistan >>>>> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bayu Fuller ( talk • contribs) 14:20, 22 November 2021 (UTC)