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Are Tor, Phi, Hous, Milw actual expansion teams or are they just proposed stadiums if the MLS expands to thoes cities. Perhaps it could clarify a bit Smith03 16:18, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
I have found no informstion about the exsistance of this so-called "stadium".
205.188.117.8
22:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Everything points to Red Bull Arena opening in 2008, including the latest press reports. -- Scaryice 03:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I've got nothing against King George V but it isn't a national soccer stadium. They usually go to Edmonton when it is soccer. 65.94.185.198 23:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed James Griffin Stadium, home of the USL's Minnesota Thunder and Minnesota Lightning, from the list. Per the photos on the page, it looks like it's more of a football primary stadium. Limasbravo ( talk) 15:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Something should be said about other parts of the world (many European coutries, Argentina, etc.) which for decades have had stadiums solely used for football. -- ChaChaFut ( talk) 05:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed the tag for the above reasons. Willy turner ( talk) 17:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I've started a discussion over here about how I think Qwest Field is actually a soccer-specific stadium. Unfortunately the definition of what an SSS actually is (in this article) is (currently) completely unreferenced which makes it difficult to know whether my claim is right or wrong (thus my addition of {{ refimprove}} at the top) . I've begun a search for references to help correct this and am keeping notes here. I welcome anyone else's further thoughts and contributions (especially references) as we try to get to the bottom of this. Thanks! -- SkotyWA Talk| Contribs 23:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
It's pretty clear (to me, anyway) that there's a bit of a disconnect between this page, which purports to be a definition of the term "soccer-specific stadium", and what some of us actually believe that definition to mean.
The main definition on the page does not, in my mind, include enough of the newer stadiums in North America. For example, both Qwest Field in Seattle, Washington and the new Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas specifically included soccer in their designs prior to construction.
My contention is that stadiums such as these are, in their own way, every bit as much a "soccer stadium" as the so-called "soccer-specific" stadiums in the article. When we say "SSS" we're talking about structures that are often built for other uses as well as for soccer.
At what point does use of a stadium for other purposes make that the "primary" purpose of a given structure? To say "soccer-specific" almost implies that a stadium is only for soccer, yet many of these SSS are actually multi-use facilities (ie, used for rugby, lacrosse, concerts, etc). See this article for an architect discussing having to take into account other use considerations for so-called "soccer-specific" stadiums.
I believe that we should expand the definition a bit and include some text that describes these other venues and the influence that soccer had on their design. Accordingly, I have added a paragraph and arbitrarily created the term "soccer hybrid stadium". (Hey, someone's got to be the first to use a term.) I cited references for the claim that these stadia were designed for soccer and created a separate table following the "current MLS stadium" table for listing these stadiums.
I'm not aware of any besides Qwest Field and Cowboys Stadium that are in this "soccer hybrid" category and would appreciate people chiming in with references. I believe Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts was designed with soccer in mind as well as football but have been unable to find anything to cite saying so. Enumclaw ( talk) 07:14, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Before I just add it, is there any good reason that Jeld-Wen field isn't on this list?
One can quibble with whether the definition this article is using is correct or not, but Jeld-Wen certainly seems to meet the definition that's being used. It was "fundamentally redesigned for soccer" and it's "primary function is to host soccer matches". Save a half dozen college football games a year, that's basically all it's used for. It probably hosts 40 professional soccer games between the men's and women's teams. It was not originally built for soccer, but neither was Buck Shaw (which is on the list) and in any case the definition in the description makes it clear that it doesn't have to have been built for that purpose. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dys Claimer ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
The problem I guess is that it seems to be soccer-specific by the definition that you're using in the actual article. The article states that a SSS is "a sports stadium either purpose built or fundamentally redesigned for soccer (association football) and whose primary function is to host soccer matches, as opposed to a multipurpose stadium which is for a variety of sports including soccer. "
Jeld-Wen was in fact "fundamentally redesigned" for soccer. It was not a minor change to the building. It underwent a massive renovation that made it impossible to use for baseball any longer. There are (for example) now stands where left field used to be. The renovation was done for the explicit purpose of making the stadium suitable for a Major League Soccer team. It certainly seems to have been "fundamentally redesigned". And this was clearly done for soccer. I guess we can argue over what "fundamentally" means...
Likewise, the definition says that the "primary purpose" of the stadium "is" (note the present tense in the definition) to host soccer matches. Again, it is beyond dispute that this is the primary purpose of the stadium at this time. The stadium hosts 40 or so professional soccer matches per year. It hosts about 6 college football games per year. That's far fewer than 25%. That is clearly the primary purpose. And in any event, the specific description in the article calls out the fact that a soccer specific stadium may be used to host other events specifically including American football.
It is true that the stadium made certain accommodations in the redesign to make it possible to continue hosting football there - the major one being the use of artificial turf - but that's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.
The situation at Jeld-Wen is essentially the same as with Buck Shaw, which is why I brought that stadium up in my comment. Both stadiums were built for other sports, and both were significantly redesigned for the explicit purpose of making them suitable for a Major League Soccer team. Buck Shaw used to host both baseball (until 2005) and American football for Santa Clara University. Near as I can tell, the only real difference between their situations is that Santa Clara's football team folded in 1992, so they don't use the stadium any more. Surely *that* can't be the issue.
The other concern I have is simply consistency with other Wikipedia articles. If you go to the article "List of Major League Soccer Stadiums" it specifically notes Jeld-Wen as a soccer specific stadium (and strangely does NOT include Buck Shaw.)
Anyway, if you want to change the description, that might be appropriate. But right now you have a list that seems to me to be at odds with the description above it. If you want the definition to be that you can't be a SSS if you play American football there, then you might want to remove the line in the description that says exactly the opposite. Dys Claimer ( talk) 20:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Mexico and Central America are part of North America, therefore, any list of soccer-specific stadiums in North America would have to include stadiums in Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, etc...
I understand the authors of this article are referring only to the US and Canada, but that is an incorrect definition of North America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.149.78 ( talk) 04:28, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
This article seems confused as to whether it's about stadiums specifically built for soccer, or association football, or football (the soccer version). Of course, they're all the same thing, but some of the posts above are written as if the article is only about places where the game is primarily called soccer. I recently added a {{cn}} tag to the claim that the term is used in Australia, where I reside (and South Korea, but I'm no expert on that country). You see, for Australia, as well as there being no sourcing for the claim I tagged, the really avid fans are all part of a very strong campaign to re-brand the game as football. The campaign is hitting some hurdles, as anyone who has the time and energy to read Talk:Soccer in Australia and its archives will see, but it's certainly what some of the hard core fans are demanding. Does this mean that no stadium in Australia will ever make it to this article? Is this article really dependent on that arbitrary line of what the game is called. To discuss even the Mexico situation,, which triggered this topic, we need to sort this out. HiLo48 ( talk) 00:59, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
The real question is, "What is the purpose of this article?"
The whole soccer vs. football debate seems ridiculous here. We are talking about stadiums for a specific sport, regardless of what you want to call that sport. These stadiums share the same basic layout in any country on any continent, so to make an article about soccer-specific stadiums in the US and Canada only, or in North America only, makes no sense. There is nothing about these stadiums to distinguish them from stadiums in other countries. In fact, MLS goes out of it's way to say their stadiums are like modern stadiums 'in Europe.'
But I do think a soccer-specific stadium article would be useful as many of the largest or most popular "soccer stadiums" in the world were built with an athletics track around the field, which makes them less desirable as soccer stadiums. The Olympic stadiums in Berlin, Munich, and Rome come to mind, as well as many of the smaller Italian stadiums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.149.78 ( talk) 05:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
Walter, let me make two points.
1. Encyclopedia articles are generally about specific things, not merely terms for things. If the basis for this entire article is that someone coined the term "soccer-specific stadium" and it's meant to only describe soccer stadiums in countries where soccer is not popular, I have to question whether or not that this article belongs in wikipedia at all.
2. If someone builds a baseball stadium in Brazil and calls it a "baseball-specific" stadium, does it suddenly merit a separate wikipedia article from every other baseball stadium? Is there a wikipedia article for all the baseball stadiums that exist in non-baseball countries? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.149.78 ( talk) 22:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Since a lot of stadiums in the US have turf, I believe this fits best here.
References
Should we have a separate article listing all the NCAA soccer specific stadiums? The list on the current page is incomplete and there is a vast list of SSS's that exist at all levels of the collegiate game. Quidster4040 ( talk) 22:20, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm a little confused as to why it's not included in the table? It is mentioned in the preceding paragraph that some minor changes have been made to accommodate CFL, but if that is the reason for excluding it from the table then there are others that should be excluded as well? You could argue this overlaps with the Expanding the definition subject, but I would like to address BMO field in particular, as it was built specifically for soccer, with adaptations required for Canadian Football. Also, its absence here is inconsistent with this page: /info/en/?search=List_of_soccer_stadiums_in_Canada which has BMO Field in bold, denoting a soccer-specific stadium. So if we're truly going to exclude BMO from the definition of a soccer-specific stadium then the other page should be adjusted for the sake of consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.179.151.165 ( talk) 23:33, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Fifth Third Bank Stadium is listed as both a current SSS for Atlanta United 2 and a past SSS due to a renovation to make it a multi-purpose facility. It needs to be removed from one of the sections. Is anyone familiar enough with the renovations to determine to the extend it was converted? FearNotMan ( talk) 16:23, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, do MLS Next Pro stadiums warrant their own category? If so, what would be the best solution for stadiums like Belson Stadium or Seatgeek Stadium that are already listed in another section but are a home stadium for an MLS Next Pro team? Metaphortune ( talk) 02:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Are Tor, Phi, Hous, Milw actual expansion teams or are they just proposed stadiums if the MLS expands to thoes cities. Perhaps it could clarify a bit Smith03 16:18, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
I have found no informstion about the exsistance of this so-called "stadium".
205.188.117.8
22:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Everything points to Red Bull Arena opening in 2008, including the latest press reports. -- Scaryice 03:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I've got nothing against King George V but it isn't a national soccer stadium. They usually go to Edmonton when it is soccer. 65.94.185.198 23:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I removed James Griffin Stadium, home of the USL's Minnesota Thunder and Minnesota Lightning, from the list. Per the photos on the page, it looks like it's more of a football primary stadium. Limasbravo ( talk) 15:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Something should be said about other parts of the world (many European coutries, Argentina, etc.) which for decades have had stadiums solely used for football. -- ChaChaFut ( talk) 05:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed the tag for the above reasons. Willy turner ( talk) 17:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I've started a discussion over here about how I think Qwest Field is actually a soccer-specific stadium. Unfortunately the definition of what an SSS actually is (in this article) is (currently) completely unreferenced which makes it difficult to know whether my claim is right or wrong (thus my addition of {{ refimprove}} at the top) . I've begun a search for references to help correct this and am keeping notes here. I welcome anyone else's further thoughts and contributions (especially references) as we try to get to the bottom of this. Thanks! -- SkotyWA Talk| Contribs 23:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
It's pretty clear (to me, anyway) that there's a bit of a disconnect between this page, which purports to be a definition of the term "soccer-specific stadium", and what some of us actually believe that definition to mean.
The main definition on the page does not, in my mind, include enough of the newer stadiums in North America. For example, both Qwest Field in Seattle, Washington and the new Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas specifically included soccer in their designs prior to construction.
My contention is that stadiums such as these are, in their own way, every bit as much a "soccer stadium" as the so-called "soccer-specific" stadiums in the article. When we say "SSS" we're talking about structures that are often built for other uses as well as for soccer.
At what point does use of a stadium for other purposes make that the "primary" purpose of a given structure? To say "soccer-specific" almost implies that a stadium is only for soccer, yet many of these SSS are actually multi-use facilities (ie, used for rugby, lacrosse, concerts, etc). See this article for an architect discussing having to take into account other use considerations for so-called "soccer-specific" stadiums.
I believe that we should expand the definition a bit and include some text that describes these other venues and the influence that soccer had on their design. Accordingly, I have added a paragraph and arbitrarily created the term "soccer hybrid stadium". (Hey, someone's got to be the first to use a term.) I cited references for the claim that these stadia were designed for soccer and created a separate table following the "current MLS stadium" table for listing these stadiums.
I'm not aware of any besides Qwest Field and Cowboys Stadium that are in this "soccer hybrid" category and would appreciate people chiming in with references. I believe Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts was designed with soccer in mind as well as football but have been unable to find anything to cite saying so. Enumclaw ( talk) 07:14, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
Before I just add it, is there any good reason that Jeld-Wen field isn't on this list?
One can quibble with whether the definition this article is using is correct or not, but Jeld-Wen certainly seems to meet the definition that's being used. It was "fundamentally redesigned for soccer" and it's "primary function is to host soccer matches". Save a half dozen college football games a year, that's basically all it's used for. It probably hosts 40 professional soccer games between the men's and women's teams. It was not originally built for soccer, but neither was Buck Shaw (which is on the list) and in any case the definition in the description makes it clear that it doesn't have to have been built for that purpose. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dys Claimer ( talk • contribs) 22:58, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
The problem I guess is that it seems to be soccer-specific by the definition that you're using in the actual article. The article states that a SSS is "a sports stadium either purpose built or fundamentally redesigned for soccer (association football) and whose primary function is to host soccer matches, as opposed to a multipurpose stadium which is for a variety of sports including soccer. "
Jeld-Wen was in fact "fundamentally redesigned" for soccer. It was not a minor change to the building. It underwent a massive renovation that made it impossible to use for baseball any longer. There are (for example) now stands where left field used to be. The renovation was done for the explicit purpose of making the stadium suitable for a Major League Soccer team. It certainly seems to have been "fundamentally redesigned". And this was clearly done for soccer. I guess we can argue over what "fundamentally" means...
Likewise, the definition says that the "primary purpose" of the stadium "is" (note the present tense in the definition) to host soccer matches. Again, it is beyond dispute that this is the primary purpose of the stadium at this time. The stadium hosts 40 or so professional soccer matches per year. It hosts about 6 college football games per year. That's far fewer than 25%. That is clearly the primary purpose. And in any event, the specific description in the article calls out the fact that a soccer specific stadium may be used to host other events specifically including American football.
It is true that the stadium made certain accommodations in the redesign to make it possible to continue hosting football there - the major one being the use of artificial turf - but that's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things.
The situation at Jeld-Wen is essentially the same as with Buck Shaw, which is why I brought that stadium up in my comment. Both stadiums were built for other sports, and both were significantly redesigned for the explicit purpose of making them suitable for a Major League Soccer team. Buck Shaw used to host both baseball (until 2005) and American football for Santa Clara University. Near as I can tell, the only real difference between their situations is that Santa Clara's football team folded in 1992, so they don't use the stadium any more. Surely *that* can't be the issue.
The other concern I have is simply consistency with other Wikipedia articles. If you go to the article "List of Major League Soccer Stadiums" it specifically notes Jeld-Wen as a soccer specific stadium (and strangely does NOT include Buck Shaw.)
Anyway, if you want to change the description, that might be appropriate. But right now you have a list that seems to me to be at odds with the description above it. If you want the definition to be that you can't be a SSS if you play American football there, then you might want to remove the line in the description that says exactly the opposite. Dys Claimer ( talk) 20:45, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Mexico and Central America are part of North America, therefore, any list of soccer-specific stadiums in North America would have to include stadiums in Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, etc...
I understand the authors of this article are referring only to the US and Canada, but that is an incorrect definition of North America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.149.78 ( talk) 04:28, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
This article seems confused as to whether it's about stadiums specifically built for soccer, or association football, or football (the soccer version). Of course, they're all the same thing, but some of the posts above are written as if the article is only about places where the game is primarily called soccer. I recently added a {{cn}} tag to the claim that the term is used in Australia, where I reside (and South Korea, but I'm no expert on that country). You see, for Australia, as well as there being no sourcing for the claim I tagged, the really avid fans are all part of a very strong campaign to re-brand the game as football. The campaign is hitting some hurdles, as anyone who has the time and energy to read Talk:Soccer in Australia and its archives will see, but it's certainly what some of the hard core fans are demanding. Does this mean that no stadium in Australia will ever make it to this article? Is this article really dependent on that arbitrary line of what the game is called. To discuss even the Mexico situation,, which triggered this topic, we need to sort this out. HiLo48 ( talk) 00:59, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
The real question is, "What is the purpose of this article?"
The whole soccer vs. football debate seems ridiculous here. We are talking about stadiums for a specific sport, regardless of what you want to call that sport. These stadiums share the same basic layout in any country on any continent, so to make an article about soccer-specific stadiums in the US and Canada only, or in North America only, makes no sense. There is nothing about these stadiums to distinguish them from stadiums in other countries. In fact, MLS goes out of it's way to say their stadiums are like modern stadiums 'in Europe.'
But I do think a soccer-specific stadium article would be useful as many of the largest or most popular "soccer stadiums" in the world were built with an athletics track around the field, which makes them less desirable as soccer stadiums. The Olympic stadiums in Berlin, Munich, and Rome come to mind, as well as many of the smaller Italian stadiums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.149.78 ( talk) 05:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
Walter, let me make two points.
1. Encyclopedia articles are generally about specific things, not merely terms for things. If the basis for this entire article is that someone coined the term "soccer-specific stadium" and it's meant to only describe soccer stadiums in countries where soccer is not popular, I have to question whether or not that this article belongs in wikipedia at all.
2. If someone builds a baseball stadium in Brazil and calls it a "baseball-specific" stadium, does it suddenly merit a separate wikipedia article from every other baseball stadium? Is there a wikipedia article for all the baseball stadiums that exist in non-baseball countries? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.149.78 ( talk) 22:47, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Since a lot of stadiums in the US have turf, I believe this fits best here.
References
Should we have a separate article listing all the NCAA soccer specific stadiums? The list on the current page is incomplete and there is a vast list of SSS's that exist at all levels of the collegiate game. Quidster4040 ( talk) 22:20, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm a little confused as to why it's not included in the table? It is mentioned in the preceding paragraph that some minor changes have been made to accommodate CFL, but if that is the reason for excluding it from the table then there are others that should be excluded as well? You could argue this overlaps with the Expanding the definition subject, but I would like to address BMO field in particular, as it was built specifically for soccer, with adaptations required for Canadian Football. Also, its absence here is inconsistent with this page: /info/en/?search=List_of_soccer_stadiums_in_Canada which has BMO Field in bold, denoting a soccer-specific stadium. So if we're truly going to exclude BMO from the definition of a soccer-specific stadium then the other page should be adjusted for the sake of consistency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.179.151.165 ( talk) 23:33, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Fifth Third Bank Stadium is listed as both a current SSS for Atlanta United 2 and a past SSS due to a renovation to make it a multi-purpose facility. It needs to be removed from one of the sections. Is anyone familiar enough with the renovations to determine to the extend it was converted? FearNotMan ( talk) 16:23, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
Hey all, do MLS Next Pro stadiums warrant their own category? If so, what would be the best solution for stadiums like Belson Stadium or Seatgeek Stadium that are already listed in another section but are a home stadium for an MLS Next Pro team? Metaphortune ( talk) 02:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)