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To-do list for Seto Inland Sea:
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Hi, all, I'm proposing that in line with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), we move this page to "Inland Sea", which is the name it usually known by in English. Almost all books about Japan in English which I have (and I have a lot :-) refer to it as "the Inland Sea", not "the Seto Inland Sea". (Enough examples to sink the Yamato produced on request! :-) Even as something of a hobby-level expert on a number of aspects of Japanese culture (see my home page, I couldn't have come up with "Seto Inland Sea" as its full formal name, if asked before this. In addition, many pages link to "Inland Sea". Noel 03:36, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
FWIW, here are the usual Google results, for pages in English:
(I added "Japan" to the second search to try and weed out references to any old use of the phrase "inland sea", of which there are about 80K.) Anyway, with this in hand, and no objections, I'll do the move now. Noel (talk) 20:30, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'd object, as I arrived here seeking general infomation on 'inland seas', not just this particular one. Grunners 01:44, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The English situation is different from the Japanese situation, where Setonaikai is virtually never referred to as Naikai. In English, people may say "the park," "the river," "the state," "the inland sea" when the subject is obvious from context. Taking these aspects into consideration, just because there are two ways to refer to something, that doesn't immediately indicate that the non-abbreviated version, Mozilla Firefox, needs to be deprecated with an article move to Firefox and prepended with a phrase such as "Formally referred to as Mozilla Firefox, if you really have to spell it out..." It's not really clear if this extra effort to de-emphasize the longer title is really called for, or if the move was the right decision in the first place.
Also, it would have been nicer if people had let this discussion continue with a few more fact-finding before bulldozing ahead with the move on 10 November 2004. The fact that "inland sea" conflicts with other articles does not affect my opinion on this. -- Bxj ( talk) 02:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
See the requested move section. This is now upder renaming. 65.95.14.96 ( talk) 05:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I wrote "oil chemical production" (I meant 石油化学) but someone rewrote it " oil refining". I think those two are related but different. I home anyone will give information kindly. -- Aphaea * 21:38, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
"The Japanese author Koushun Takami wrote a novel called “ Battle Royale” that took place on a fictional island in the Seto Inland Sea." This statement came from an IP address where all the other edits appear to be either vandalism or jokes. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:35, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
I'm also adding the map at the Honshu-Shikoku Bridge Project wikipage, but put it here as well as it shows the locations of many of the major cities on the Inland Sea mentioned in the "Industry" section above. I couldn't find an older 'free' map with the bridges on it, so I drew them in myself (caveat). They aren't meant to be exactly accurate, but they give an immediate overview of the 'bridging' of the Inland Sea. Frankly, I was a bit overwhelmed by the complex of actual bridges included within the expressways (e.g., Great Seto Bridge), compounded by the variety of names for each thing (it seemed to me). I was going for an accurate simplification and the Expressways, as organized in the Honshu-Shikoku Bridge Project wiki article, and their website, seemed the way to go. Jauntymcd 17:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I propose to move this page to Inland Sea (Japan). Inland sea can refer to many large bodies of water not just this Japanese example. Ideas? Ozdaren 13:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Google maps / Satellite (or aerial photography?) imagery suggests two rail tunnels (one Shinkansen and one local servicves?) and a road bridge linking Kyushu and Honshu over (or under) the Kanmon Strait. Is there some reason that the "Transport" section of the article states "On the other hand, no bridge over the Inland Sea connects Kyūshū and another island"? I thought these straits were considered part of the Inland Sea. 16:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Iyo Nada, Aki Nada, Suonada, Hiro Wan, and Hiro Bay all redirect to this page. I added a brief mention of where the first three are, per the Japanese Wikipedia pages for those places. I know of no place called Hiro wan or Hiro bay, though, and can't find any mentioned at Japanese Wikipedia. Cnilep ( talk) 05:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Page moved to Seto Inland Sea. While there was some discussion on the target, the fact that this name had a good number of incoming links and was the actual name used in the major seas template establishes the fact that the name is widely used here already. Also this name is used in the actual article. I'll leave it to others to decide on redirecting Inland Sea to Inland sea or making a dab page. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:29, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Inland Sea → Inland Sea (Japan) — There are many bodies called "inland seas", the generic concept itself is more common in English than this Japanese marginal sea, which is not very inland. A disambiguation page would replace the current item at this title. 65.95.14.96 ( talk) 05:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.If you call the United States Congress "the Congress" or Central Park "the park", this is understood as a shortened version for informal use and there is no implication that the longer form has been rejected as a formal name. So whatever the hit count for "Inland Sea" Japan, this does not preclude the use of "Seto Inland Sea" as a formal name and article title. "Inland Sea" can redirect to "Seto Inland Sea", at least until there are traffic stats to show what readers who type in "inland sea" are actually looking for. stats.grok.se can't distinguish between "Inland Sea" and "Inland sea", so such stats don't exist currently. But judging from the Google results, I would be very surprised if it turns out that these readers are looking for something Japan-related. The Inland sea article is not a pretty sight at the moment, but that can always be fixed. Kauffner ( talk) 09:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I've looked at the first 40 Google books results for "Inland Sea". 32 results include the words "Inland Sea" in their title, 8 do not. Of the 40 results
From the above it is clear that there is no clear primary topic for the term "inland sea", although when the context is established as Japan the term is not ambiguous, nor is there a standard way of disambiguating the Japanese sea from the other uses. "Inland Sea of Japan" seems to be a way of establishing that the context is Japan as "Inland Sea" by itself is ambiguous and there is no common unambiguous term. Thryduulf ( talk) 13:01, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Suggestion I suggest a DAB Inland sea (disambiguation) that touches on an inland sea and has a list of the following real and fictional seas including the word "island sea":
Perhaps we can change the hatnote of this article into something like this;
Or this;
Please add the name of this coastal region, Setouchi ( ja:瀬戸内), which is very commonly used in Japan.-- Shinkansen Fan ( talk) 06:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Are you asserting that "Inland Sea" (as capitalised) is more likely to refer to the generic concept of an inland sea than to the Japanese sea? Hesperian 05:39, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To-do list for Seto Inland Sea:
|
Hi, all, I'm proposing that in line with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names), we move this page to "Inland Sea", which is the name it usually known by in English. Almost all books about Japan in English which I have (and I have a lot :-) refer to it as "the Inland Sea", not "the Seto Inland Sea". (Enough examples to sink the Yamato produced on request! :-) Even as something of a hobby-level expert on a number of aspects of Japanese culture (see my home page, I couldn't have come up with "Seto Inland Sea" as its full formal name, if asked before this. In addition, many pages link to "Inland Sea". Noel 03:36, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
FWIW, here are the usual Google results, for pages in English:
(I added "Japan" to the second search to try and weed out references to any old use of the phrase "inland sea", of which there are about 80K.) Anyway, with this in hand, and no objections, I'll do the move now. Noel (talk) 20:30, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'd object, as I arrived here seeking general infomation on 'inland seas', not just this particular one. Grunners 01:44, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The English situation is different from the Japanese situation, where Setonaikai is virtually never referred to as Naikai. In English, people may say "the park," "the river," "the state," "the inland sea" when the subject is obvious from context. Taking these aspects into consideration, just because there are two ways to refer to something, that doesn't immediately indicate that the non-abbreviated version, Mozilla Firefox, needs to be deprecated with an article move to Firefox and prepended with a phrase such as "Formally referred to as Mozilla Firefox, if you really have to spell it out..." It's not really clear if this extra effort to de-emphasize the longer title is really called for, or if the move was the right decision in the first place.
Also, it would have been nicer if people had let this discussion continue with a few more fact-finding before bulldozing ahead with the move on 10 November 2004. The fact that "inland sea" conflicts with other articles does not affect my opinion on this. -- Bxj ( talk) 02:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
See the requested move section. This is now upder renaming. 65.95.14.96 ( talk) 05:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
I wrote "oil chemical production" (I meant 石油化学) but someone rewrote it " oil refining". I think those two are related but different. I home anyone will give information kindly. -- Aphaea * 21:38, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
"The Japanese author Koushun Takami wrote a novel called “ Battle Royale” that took place on a fictional island in the Seto Inland Sea." This statement came from an IP address where all the other edits appear to be either vandalism or jokes. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:35, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
I'm also adding the map at the Honshu-Shikoku Bridge Project wikipage, but put it here as well as it shows the locations of many of the major cities on the Inland Sea mentioned in the "Industry" section above. I couldn't find an older 'free' map with the bridges on it, so I drew them in myself (caveat). They aren't meant to be exactly accurate, but they give an immediate overview of the 'bridging' of the Inland Sea. Frankly, I was a bit overwhelmed by the complex of actual bridges included within the expressways (e.g., Great Seto Bridge), compounded by the variety of names for each thing (it seemed to me). I was going for an accurate simplification and the Expressways, as organized in the Honshu-Shikoku Bridge Project wiki article, and their website, seemed the way to go. Jauntymcd 17:40, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I propose to move this page to Inland Sea (Japan). Inland sea can refer to many large bodies of water not just this Japanese example. Ideas? Ozdaren 13:46, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Google maps / Satellite (or aerial photography?) imagery suggests two rail tunnels (one Shinkansen and one local servicves?) and a road bridge linking Kyushu and Honshu over (or under) the Kanmon Strait. Is there some reason that the "Transport" section of the article states "On the other hand, no bridge over the Inland Sea connects Kyūshū and another island"? I thought these straits were considered part of the Inland Sea. 16:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Iyo Nada, Aki Nada, Suonada, Hiro Wan, and Hiro Bay all redirect to this page. I added a brief mention of where the first three are, per the Japanese Wikipedia pages for those places. I know of no place called Hiro wan or Hiro bay, though, and can't find any mentioned at Japanese Wikipedia. Cnilep ( talk) 05:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Page moved to Seto Inland Sea. While there was some discussion on the target, the fact that this name had a good number of incoming links and was the actual name used in the major seas template establishes the fact that the name is widely used here already. Also this name is used in the actual article. I'll leave it to others to decide on redirecting Inland Sea to Inland sea or making a dab page. Vegaswikian ( talk) 19:29, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Inland Sea → Inland Sea (Japan) — There are many bodies called "inland seas", the generic concept itself is more common in English than this Japanese marginal sea, which is not very inland. A disambiguation page would replace the current item at this title. 65.95.14.96 ( talk) 05:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.If you call the United States Congress "the Congress" or Central Park "the park", this is understood as a shortened version for informal use and there is no implication that the longer form has been rejected as a formal name. So whatever the hit count for "Inland Sea" Japan, this does not preclude the use of "Seto Inland Sea" as a formal name and article title. "Inland Sea" can redirect to "Seto Inland Sea", at least until there are traffic stats to show what readers who type in "inland sea" are actually looking for. stats.grok.se can't distinguish between "Inland Sea" and "Inland sea", so such stats don't exist currently. But judging from the Google results, I would be very surprised if it turns out that these readers are looking for something Japan-related. The Inland sea article is not a pretty sight at the moment, but that can always be fixed. Kauffner ( talk) 09:44, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
I've looked at the first 40 Google books results for "Inland Sea". 32 results include the words "Inland Sea" in their title, 8 do not. Of the 40 results
From the above it is clear that there is no clear primary topic for the term "inland sea", although when the context is established as Japan the term is not ambiguous, nor is there a standard way of disambiguating the Japanese sea from the other uses. "Inland Sea of Japan" seems to be a way of establishing that the context is Japan as "Inland Sea" by itself is ambiguous and there is no common unambiguous term. Thryduulf ( talk) 13:01, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Suggestion I suggest a DAB Inland sea (disambiguation) that touches on an inland sea and has a list of the following real and fictional seas including the word "island sea":
Perhaps we can change the hatnote of this article into something like this;
Or this;
Please add the name of this coastal region, Setouchi ( ja:瀬戸内), which is very commonly used in Japan.-- Shinkansen Fan ( talk) 06:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Are you asserting that "Inland Sea" (as capitalised) is more likely to refer to the generic concept of an inland sea than to the Japanese sea? Hesperian 05:39, 19 February 2011 (UTC)