This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Scream Queens (2015 TV series) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report 4 times. The weeks in which this happened:
|
I'd like to say, there are no valid sources giving the character last names, let alone giving names to Ariana Grande's character. The source for those names, other than Emma Roberts' character (Chanel Oberlin), came from a Twitter account claiming to be an insider. The first names of characters (Aside from Grande) were leaked on a cast call sheet, but I'm not sure if that counts as a reliable source. At least, the only names that should be given in the cast list are Emma Roberts as Chanel Oberlin and Niecy Nash as Denise, and the most should also have only first names for Curtis, Michele, Hudson, Palmer, Breslin, Samuels, Boneta, Morris, & Jonas and that's it. 2602:304:B1AF:D0F0:8D87:2F6:84C4:A590 ( talk) 03:39, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Would people be okay with the photo in the box being changed to one of the recent promotional posters? I feel the title card isn't as necessary now that some promotional posters have been released. Brocicle ( talk) 04:37, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Any involved editor who reverts edits here will know that the addition of unsourced content is very occurring here. In a last ditch effort to attempt to save this article from being prohibited of IPs and new users to edit, I am giving my last warning. Do not add content without proper sourcing. Any attempts to do so will result in reverts. If disruptive editing from God knows how many users continues, the page will likely be protected and hopefully indefinitely this time around. The article suffers a lot of unsourced content and all attempts to avoid more edits like this aren't helping. Please stop. Thank you, Callmemirela ( Talk) ♑ 03:32, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Why do many of the entries in the cast and characters section have these big quotations about the character? They seem totally unnecessary. If there's useful information in the quotations for a general understanding of the character, they can be summarized. CrocodilesAreForWimps ( talk) 16:52, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
If I'm coming off as rude than it's mearly a manifestation of my angst. I worked for hours editing and adding this informative, pertinent, incisive information that the creators deemed noteworthy. And as for your jab, "It's a TV show, for god's sake", what the hell does that even mean? As if TV shows are somehow inferior to movies. And no Wikipedia is quite strict on its regulation of opinion, with little room for guesswork. The information should stay until someone creates character articles, not just be removed because you don't like the way ot makes the page look. Surely I'm not the only one that can see the absurdity in that. LLArrow ( talk) 00:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm coming off the notification on the WikiProject Television. I echo the original sentiment of CrocodilesAreForWimps: these particular quotes on the page right now seem totally unnecessary, but that's coming out of the quotes not actually saying much, and if there's important information, summarize to cut out fluff bits and long-winded phrasing. Taking some of the entries, something like:
- Emma Roberts as Chanel Oberlin, the president of the Kappa Kappa Tau sorority described by executive producer Brad Falchuck as "kind of that mean girl." Falchuck also said of Chanel: She's not looking to learn anything. She's looking to get what she wants, and in the process of doing that, she starts to think, 'Maybe what I want right now is actually to be connected to this girl, to be nice to this girl.' So it's not about what she should do but what she wants right now."
- Skyler Samuels as Grace Gardner, a Kappa Kappa Tau legacy and pledge. Samuels felt that Grace is the "eyes and ears of the audience" in regards to college experience and used some of her own experiences to "feed into" Grace's.
- Jamie Lee Curtis as Cathy Munsch, the dean of the university who carries her own secrets and whose connections to the events lie in the past. Falchuck hoped that the role would give Curties "some great, interesting, weird, unexpected stuff to say and do."
- Ariana Grande as Sonya Herfmann / Chanel #2, a member of Kappa Kappa Tau, one of Chanel's minions, and and a reformed alcoholic who had an affair with Chad. Falchuk said of Sonya's death scene, "It's the idea that it just doesn't exist if it's not put onto social media in some way; it becomes irrelevant, it's a fantasy — it only becomes real when all of your followers know about it. [Chanel #2] uses Twitter as her way of telling everybody that she's being killed and who the killer is, but she runs out of characters eventually, and she can't even say the answer because she decided to use Twitter as her way of communicating. When you have Ariana doing that scene, it also gives it a different little punch because if you have a star that big, you're not going to kill her in the first episode — but that's the fun of it. It's a bit of an homage to Psycho."
And so forth. The quotes aren't so substantial, in my opinion. For example, Powell's quote on the Radwells reads like fluff to me, Michele's isn't overly insightful. Falchuk on Sonya's death is long yes but it's a meaty quote and difficult to cut down, and my summary skills are lacking. Heck, I wouldn't even necessarily keep the quotes in my given example. But, anyway, that's the principle of the idea I'm going for. In this way, it does quote relevant material from actors and crewmembers, but it doesn't clog the section with fluff, or overlong turns of phrases.
However, I do agree that callmemirela's comment that "TV shows [are] inferior to films" should have little bearing on what to do here. That kind of logic just doesn't really make any sense to me. Whether or not something is debased should not affect the way Wikipedia covers it. And if the article has no separate character list or articles, and there is something truly insightful regarding the construction or casting of a character on a television show, I see no reason why we cannot include it, summarize it, as we do with film articles. Side note, I'm not sure if it's necessary that EVERY cast member that currently appears on the page really needs to be there, but that's for regular editors of the page to work out, I suppose. ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 01:45, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Per WP:QUOTEFARM we want to be avoiding the use of too many block quotes like this. If the information is useful at all, paraphrase it instead; if it's not, bin it. But as it stands right now it's undesirable and counter to guidelines. GRAPPLE X 11:22, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I removed the deemed "unnecessary" quotes, so now please find another subject to bitch about. LLArrow ( talk) 23:06, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Obviously you failed to see my previous comments in this very discussion above. I'm not an idiot, there is no compromising. The only suitable place for the quotes in question were where I had them placed under the character info or a character article, which no one has created. I had already streamlined the comments down to their barebones and that still was not enough to appease others "cluttered" eyes. P.S. Brocicle, it's improper etiquette to talk about a user in a discussion/argument, especially smack, without pinging them. LLArrow ( talk) 17:35, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
I've seen articles with delayed viewer ratings before, but they always get removed from the charts because of Wikipedia guidelines. Are there any exceptions that can be applied to this show as it's delayed "live plus three", "live plus five", FoxNOW, and Hulu ratings are actually record braking? ( Source) -- LurganShmith ( talk) 19:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Television#Addendum_to_the_Cast_section; Since this will effect this, and every, season of this series, I thought it prudent to bring it to other editors attention.
I think we should just list the recurring characters. Recurring is generally 3 or 5 but since most characters have less than five appearances I say three. I also don't think its necessary to have Special Guest Stars. They should just be in recurring. Scream4man ( talk) 03:32, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Consensus is already against you on this matter. Next... LLArrow ( talk) 18:47, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
0% complete | |
I've created a draft template for a potential Good topic about Scream Queens. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 18:33, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
@ AlexTheWhovian: Firstly, WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO apply here. You've made a bold move that has been reverted so the burden is now on you to establish consensus to remove the set widths and, while it's under discussion the status quo reigns. The fact that three users reverted my edits does not change that. Clearly, with no other edits about it having been made by other editors in the past 2 and a half months, it isn't bothering most of the editors. The set widths have been there for three months now since it was first added, [1] so that's definitely the status quo. As per WP:DONTREVERT, your claim that one-season shows do not require set widths is not valid unless there is a Wikipedia rule claiming so. I'm reverting it once again so the staus quo remains until we enter a consensus here. Thanks - Artmanha ( talk) 23:22, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
The instructions for {{
Episode list}} state that |ShortSummary=
should be "A short 100–200 word plot summary of the episode". A tag alerting editors to this problem was added to the article in December 2015 by
AlexTheWhovian,
[2] but it was largely ignored and inappropriately deleted in
this edit, which also added a redundant heading. I subsequently tagged problem episodes individually, including a note explaining how long each episode was.
[3] At that time, only 1 episode complied with the 100–200 word requirement.
Brocicle has since pruned several summaries, but six are still longer than 200 words and require further pruning. The current offenders, as of
this revision, are (with length):
Summaries for these episodes need to be pruned, after which the tags may be removed, but tags should remain if the episode summary is longer than 200 words. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 15:05, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I undid a
WP:BOLD split to a separate episode list article as it is too soon for a separate list article. I consider that a split proposal. Also the split was done incorrectly. The required attributes as specified at
WP:CWW were not done. When a split does get done the process described at
WP:SPLIT#How to properly split an article needs to be followed. The split I undid was at
List of Scream Queens (2015 TV series) episodes. Article should be split to
List of Scream Queens episodes (2015 TV series) as the disambiguator parenthetical should be at the end of the title.
Geraldo Perez (
talk)
16:44, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Scream Queens (2015 TV series) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report 4 times. The weeks in which this happened:
|
I'd like to say, there are no valid sources giving the character last names, let alone giving names to Ariana Grande's character. The source for those names, other than Emma Roberts' character (Chanel Oberlin), came from a Twitter account claiming to be an insider. The first names of characters (Aside from Grande) were leaked on a cast call sheet, but I'm not sure if that counts as a reliable source. At least, the only names that should be given in the cast list are Emma Roberts as Chanel Oberlin and Niecy Nash as Denise, and the most should also have only first names for Curtis, Michele, Hudson, Palmer, Breslin, Samuels, Boneta, Morris, & Jonas and that's it. 2602:304:B1AF:D0F0:8D87:2F6:84C4:A590 ( talk) 03:39, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Would people be okay with the photo in the box being changed to one of the recent promotional posters? I feel the title card isn't as necessary now that some promotional posters have been released. Brocicle ( talk) 04:37, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Any involved editor who reverts edits here will know that the addition of unsourced content is very occurring here. In a last ditch effort to attempt to save this article from being prohibited of IPs and new users to edit, I am giving my last warning. Do not add content without proper sourcing. Any attempts to do so will result in reverts. If disruptive editing from God knows how many users continues, the page will likely be protected and hopefully indefinitely this time around. The article suffers a lot of unsourced content and all attempts to avoid more edits like this aren't helping. Please stop. Thank you, Callmemirela ( Talk) ♑ 03:32, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Why do many of the entries in the cast and characters section have these big quotations about the character? They seem totally unnecessary. If there's useful information in the quotations for a general understanding of the character, they can be summarized. CrocodilesAreForWimps ( talk) 16:52, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
If I'm coming off as rude than it's mearly a manifestation of my angst. I worked for hours editing and adding this informative, pertinent, incisive information that the creators deemed noteworthy. And as for your jab, "It's a TV show, for god's sake", what the hell does that even mean? As if TV shows are somehow inferior to movies. And no Wikipedia is quite strict on its regulation of opinion, with little room for guesswork. The information should stay until someone creates character articles, not just be removed because you don't like the way ot makes the page look. Surely I'm not the only one that can see the absurdity in that. LLArrow ( talk) 00:40, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm coming off the notification on the WikiProject Television. I echo the original sentiment of CrocodilesAreForWimps: these particular quotes on the page right now seem totally unnecessary, but that's coming out of the quotes not actually saying much, and if there's important information, summarize to cut out fluff bits and long-winded phrasing. Taking some of the entries, something like:
- Emma Roberts as Chanel Oberlin, the president of the Kappa Kappa Tau sorority described by executive producer Brad Falchuck as "kind of that mean girl." Falchuck also said of Chanel: She's not looking to learn anything. She's looking to get what she wants, and in the process of doing that, she starts to think, 'Maybe what I want right now is actually to be connected to this girl, to be nice to this girl.' So it's not about what she should do but what she wants right now."
- Skyler Samuels as Grace Gardner, a Kappa Kappa Tau legacy and pledge. Samuels felt that Grace is the "eyes and ears of the audience" in regards to college experience and used some of her own experiences to "feed into" Grace's.
- Jamie Lee Curtis as Cathy Munsch, the dean of the university who carries her own secrets and whose connections to the events lie in the past. Falchuck hoped that the role would give Curties "some great, interesting, weird, unexpected stuff to say and do."
- Ariana Grande as Sonya Herfmann / Chanel #2, a member of Kappa Kappa Tau, one of Chanel's minions, and and a reformed alcoholic who had an affair with Chad. Falchuk said of Sonya's death scene, "It's the idea that it just doesn't exist if it's not put onto social media in some way; it becomes irrelevant, it's a fantasy — it only becomes real when all of your followers know about it. [Chanel #2] uses Twitter as her way of telling everybody that she's being killed and who the killer is, but she runs out of characters eventually, and she can't even say the answer because she decided to use Twitter as her way of communicating. When you have Ariana doing that scene, it also gives it a different little punch because if you have a star that big, you're not going to kill her in the first episode — but that's the fun of it. It's a bit of an homage to Psycho."
And so forth. The quotes aren't so substantial, in my opinion. For example, Powell's quote on the Radwells reads like fluff to me, Michele's isn't overly insightful. Falchuk on Sonya's death is long yes but it's a meaty quote and difficult to cut down, and my summary skills are lacking. Heck, I wouldn't even necessarily keep the quotes in my given example. But, anyway, that's the principle of the idea I'm going for. In this way, it does quote relevant material from actors and crewmembers, but it doesn't clog the section with fluff, or overlong turns of phrases.
However, I do agree that callmemirela's comment that "TV shows [are] inferior to films" should have little bearing on what to do here. That kind of logic just doesn't really make any sense to me. Whether or not something is debased should not affect the way Wikipedia covers it. And if the article has no separate character list or articles, and there is something truly insightful regarding the construction or casting of a character on a television show, I see no reason why we cannot include it, summarize it, as we do with film articles. Side note, I'm not sure if it's necessary that EVERY cast member that currently appears on the page really needs to be there, but that's for regular editors of the page to work out, I suppose. ~Cheers, Ten Ton Parasol 01:45, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Per WP:QUOTEFARM we want to be avoiding the use of too many block quotes like this. If the information is useful at all, paraphrase it instead; if it's not, bin it. But as it stands right now it's undesirable and counter to guidelines. GRAPPLE X 11:22, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
I removed the deemed "unnecessary" quotes, so now please find another subject to bitch about. LLArrow ( talk) 23:06, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Obviously you failed to see my previous comments in this very discussion above. I'm not an idiot, there is no compromising. The only suitable place for the quotes in question were where I had them placed under the character info or a character article, which no one has created. I had already streamlined the comments down to their barebones and that still was not enough to appease others "cluttered" eyes. P.S. Brocicle, it's improper etiquette to talk about a user in a discussion/argument, especially smack, without pinging them. LLArrow ( talk) 17:35, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
I've seen articles with delayed viewer ratings before, but they always get removed from the charts because of Wikipedia guidelines. Are there any exceptions that can be applied to this show as it's delayed "live plus three", "live plus five", FoxNOW, and Hulu ratings are actually record braking? ( Source) -- LurganShmith ( talk) 19:56, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Television#Addendum_to_the_Cast_section; Since this will effect this, and every, season of this series, I thought it prudent to bring it to other editors attention.
I think we should just list the recurring characters. Recurring is generally 3 or 5 but since most characters have less than five appearances I say three. I also don't think its necessary to have Special Guest Stars. They should just be in recurring. Scream4man ( talk) 03:32, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Consensus is already against you on this matter. Next... LLArrow ( talk) 18:47, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
0% complete | |
I've created a draft template for a potential Good topic about Scream Queens. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 18:33, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
@ AlexTheWhovian: Firstly, WP:BRD and WP:STATUSQUO apply here. You've made a bold move that has been reverted so the burden is now on you to establish consensus to remove the set widths and, while it's under discussion the status quo reigns. The fact that three users reverted my edits does not change that. Clearly, with no other edits about it having been made by other editors in the past 2 and a half months, it isn't bothering most of the editors. The set widths have been there for three months now since it was first added, [1] so that's definitely the status quo. As per WP:DONTREVERT, your claim that one-season shows do not require set widths is not valid unless there is a Wikipedia rule claiming so. I'm reverting it once again so the staus quo remains until we enter a consensus here. Thanks - Artmanha ( talk) 23:22, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
The instructions for {{
Episode list}} state that |ShortSummary=
should be "A short 100–200 word plot summary of the episode". A tag alerting editors to this problem was added to the article in December 2015 by
AlexTheWhovian,
[2] but it was largely ignored and inappropriately deleted in
this edit, which also added a redundant heading. I subsequently tagged problem episodes individually, including a note explaining how long each episode was.
[3] At that time, only 1 episode complied with the 100–200 word requirement.
Brocicle has since pruned several summaries, but six are still longer than 200 words and require further pruning. The current offenders, as of
this revision, are (with length):
Summaries for these episodes need to be pruned, after which the tags may be removed, but tags should remain if the episode summary is longer than 200 words. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 15:05, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I undid a
WP:BOLD split to a separate episode list article as it is too soon for a separate list article. I consider that a split proposal. Also the split was done incorrectly. The required attributes as specified at
WP:CWW were not done. When a split does get done the process described at
WP:SPLIT#How to properly split an article needs to be followed. The split I undid was at
List of Scream Queens (2015 TV series) episodes. Article should be split to
List of Scream Queens episodes (2015 TV series) as the disambiguator parenthetical should be at the end of the title.
Geraldo Perez (
talk)
16:44, 3 May 2016 (UTC)