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Sada Abe article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A fact from Sada Abe appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 13 April 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 18, 2012, May 18, 2016, May 18, 2019, May 18, 2021, and May 18, 2023. |
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WikiProject Biography Assessment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 01:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I found a blog post [1] (I know they are not reliable sources) which claims Sada Abe died at the age of 64. Anybody able to confim or deny that? -- DaKine 21:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The rape allegations are a WP:BLP violation, IMO, and if they are restored again it will be reported to the BLP noticeboard. This is a living person who is not a public figure and I can see no reason to claim here that she was raped at 14. Even if true it doesnt help the biography and could very much be seen as an attack on the subject of the article, SqueakBox 22:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons does not mean we can't publish anything bad about anyone, it merely means that we need to source it impeccably. This is cited to a book published by a university-affiliated scholarly press, an academic source, the best kind according to Wikipedia:Verifiability. It meets WP:BLP. -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 23:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
sex is a universal habit in animals and humans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.157.18 ( talk) 05:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Jack Seward makes the following claim [2]:
(Note: the above is the blog author's text, not Seward's original.)
I've heard variation of this ever since, but the Japanese version just notes that 「世間から変態、変態と言われるのが辛い」と逮捕直後からもらしている。, without specifying any charges, and a Japanese search for 変体性欲者 or 以上性欲者 didn't come up with anything. There's a login-required link on MUSE about the case [3], can somebody access it? Jpatokal ( talk) 10:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I've applied the standard in WP:DATE, with dates based on Japanese Wikipedia article. The Japanese reads "current whereabouts unknown", but Sada Abe would be 103 if she is alive today, and it is likely she is dead; the English "death date unknown" is standard for Wikipedia, and vague enough to allow the narrow chance she remains alive. - Yamara ✉ 13:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
In the article it says, "Though the prosecution demanded ten years, and she was hoping for the death penalty..." It isn't unusual for people in desperate circumstances to claim that they actually seek the outcome, which fate appears to be sending their way regardless. It isn't difficult to understand the psychology behind such claims. Still, saying it, is not the same as it being true. For that reason, some time back, I changed the sentence to indicate that that Abe "...claimed to hope..." that was reverted for bad phrasing. Fair enough, it was badly phrased, but I still feel that Abe's hope that she would receive the death penalty should not merely be stated as fact - especially when she failed to remedy the failure of the court to deliver such a penalty either while in jail, or subsequently when enjoying her celebrity.
I have now made a similar change but hopefully, phrased more clearly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 ( talk) 14:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The introduction reads:
[...] is remembered in Japan for erotically asphyxiating her lover, [...], and then cutting off his penis and testicles [...]
This suggests that she killed her lover through the asphyxiation in an erotic play, although the text is not clear that this was the cause of his death or whether we have to assume an passionate "accident", a murder, mental confusion, all together, or something else, or whether this is ultimately known at all. The article later reports that she strangled her lover in his sleep, which I doubt should be described as "erotically asphyxiating", even if that practice was part of their prior sexual encounters.
Could someone more familiar with the topic find a wording that addresses these issues, is clearer and more consistent? Ebab 18:14, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Two comments: 1) This article seems quite long and detailed for such a relatively unimportant biography. 2) The photo is hardly credible, and casts doubt on the article itself. Would somebody being arrested and the arresting officers really be broadly smiling like that? 174.21.114.175 ( talk) 10:06, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
the picture should read shortly before not shortly after —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
90.218.128.159 (
talk) 03:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
User:Chrisdbrowndotnet has twice, without explanation, changed the caption to the arrest photo from May 20 to May 21. I see a few websites that say she was arrested May 21, but none of these seems anywhere near as reliable as the source we use: Johnston, William (2005). Geisha, Harlot, Strangler, Star: A Woman, Sex, and Morality in Modern Japan. New York: Columbia University Press. ISBN 0-231-13052-X.. I don't have the book in front of me, but a Google books search shows that Johnston repeatedly names the arrest as May 20, with most of the newspaper reports on the arrest coming out on the morning of May 21. Most important, he captions the photo in question with May 20:
Johnston quite clearly and repeatedly places the arrest as May 20, so, unless there is better sourcing which gives May 21, I am changing it back. . Dekkappai ( talk) 19:35, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
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Yes, there are multiple references listed. But the bulk of this article's content seems to be cribbed primarily from two books on the subject (Johnston and Marran) plus a few references from a third (Schreiber). It would take dedication from a knowledgeable editor, but to make this article wiki-worthy it should be revised with multiple perspectives and rewritten so as not to rehash the views of just a couple books. Brhiba ( talk) 17:04, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Since the name 'Sada Abe' and 'Abe Sada' appear more than 25 times written in both ways in the article, I chose to add the template to avoid confusion with the name. Agente Rolf ( talk) 07:34, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sada Abe article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A fact from Sada Abe appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 13 April 2004. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 18, 2012, May 18, 2016, May 18, 2019, May 18, 2021, and May 18, 2023. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
WikiProject Biography Assessment
The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 01:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I found a blog post [1] (I know they are not reliable sources) which claims Sada Abe died at the age of 64. Anybody able to confim or deny that? -- DaKine 21:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The rape allegations are a WP:BLP violation, IMO, and if they are restored again it will be reported to the BLP noticeboard. This is a living person who is not a public figure and I can see no reason to claim here that she was raped at 14. Even if true it doesnt help the biography and could very much be seen as an attack on the subject of the article, SqueakBox 22:12, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons does not mean we can't publish anything bad about anyone, it merely means that we need to source it impeccably. This is cited to a book published by a university-affiliated scholarly press, an academic source, the best kind according to Wikipedia:Verifiability. It meets WP:BLP. -- AnonEMouse (squeak) 23:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
sex is a universal habit in animals and humans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.157.18 ( talk) 05:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Jack Seward makes the following claim [2]:
(Note: the above is the blog author's text, not Seward's original.)
I've heard variation of this ever since, but the Japanese version just notes that 「世間から変態、変態と言われるのが辛い」と逮捕直後からもらしている。, without specifying any charges, and a Japanese search for 変体性欲者 or 以上性欲者 didn't come up with anything. There's a login-required link on MUSE about the case [3], can somebody access it? Jpatokal ( talk) 10:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I've applied the standard in WP:DATE, with dates based on Japanese Wikipedia article. The Japanese reads "current whereabouts unknown", but Sada Abe would be 103 if she is alive today, and it is likely she is dead; the English "death date unknown" is standard for Wikipedia, and vague enough to allow the narrow chance she remains alive. - Yamara ✉ 13:07, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
In the article it says, "Though the prosecution demanded ten years, and she was hoping for the death penalty..." It isn't unusual for people in desperate circumstances to claim that they actually seek the outcome, which fate appears to be sending their way regardless. It isn't difficult to understand the psychology behind such claims. Still, saying it, is not the same as it being true. For that reason, some time back, I changed the sentence to indicate that that Abe "...claimed to hope..." that was reverted for bad phrasing. Fair enough, it was badly phrased, but I still feel that Abe's hope that she would receive the death penalty should not merely be stated as fact - especially when she failed to remedy the failure of the court to deliver such a penalty either while in jail, or subsequently when enjoying her celebrity.
I have now made a similar change but hopefully, phrased more clearly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 ( talk) 14:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
The introduction reads:
[...] is remembered in Japan for erotically asphyxiating her lover, [...], and then cutting off his penis and testicles [...]
This suggests that she killed her lover through the asphyxiation in an erotic play, although the text is not clear that this was the cause of his death or whether we have to assume an passionate "accident", a murder, mental confusion, all together, or something else, or whether this is ultimately known at all. The article later reports that she strangled her lover in his sleep, which I doubt should be described as "erotically asphyxiating", even if that practice was part of their prior sexual encounters.
Could someone more familiar with the topic find a wording that addresses these issues, is clearer and more consistent? Ebab 18:14, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Two comments: 1) This article seems quite long and detailed for such a relatively unimportant biography. 2) The photo is hardly credible, and casts doubt on the article itself. Would somebody being arrested and the arresting officers really be broadly smiling like that? 174.21.114.175 ( talk) 10:06, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
the picture should read shortly before not shortly after —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
90.218.128.159 (
talk) 03:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
User:Chrisdbrowndotnet has twice, without explanation, changed the caption to the arrest photo from May 20 to May 21. I see a few websites that say she was arrested May 21, but none of these seems anywhere near as reliable as the source we use: Johnston, William (2005). Geisha, Harlot, Strangler, Star: A Woman, Sex, and Morality in Modern Japan. New York: Columbia University Press. ISBN 0-231-13052-X.. I don't have the book in front of me, but a Google books search shows that Johnston repeatedly names the arrest as May 20, with most of the newspaper reports on the arrest coming out on the morning of May 21. Most important, he captions the photo in question with May 20:
Johnston quite clearly and repeatedly places the arrest as May 20, so, unless there is better sourcing which gives May 21, I am changing it back. . Dekkappai ( talk) 19:35, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Sada Abe. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:20, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
Yes, there are multiple references listed. But the bulk of this article's content seems to be cribbed primarily from two books on the subject (Johnston and Marran) plus a few references from a third (Schreiber). It would take dedication from a knowledgeable editor, but to make this article wiki-worthy it should be revised with multiple perspectives and rewritten so as not to rehash the views of just a couple books. Brhiba ( talk) 17:04, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Since the name 'Sada Abe' and 'Abe Sada' appear more than 25 times written in both ways in the article, I chose to add the template to avoid confusion with the name. Agente Rolf ( talk) 07:34, 26 March 2019 (UTC)