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As Human rights in Russia are a matter of controversy, I believe it may be necessary to elaborate human rights in the lead section. Due to recent edits, a sentence mentioning that "[Vladimir Putin]'s government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses" was removed from the lead section. [ [2]] Currently, Human rights are only mentioned in the Foreign Relations subsection of the Politics section of the article, describing that:
"An important aspect of Russia's relations with the West is the criticism of Russia's political system and human rights management (including LGBT rights, media freedom, and reports about killed journalists) by Western governments, the mass media and the leading democracy and human rights watchdogs. In particular, such organisations as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch consider Russia to have not enough democratic attributes and to allow few political rights and civil liberties to its citizens.[139][140] Freedom House, an international organisation funded by the United States, ranks Russia as "not free", citing "carefully engineered elections" and "absence" of debate.[141] Russian authorities dismiss these claims and especially criticise Freedom House. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has called the 2006 Freedom in the World report "prefabricated", stating that the human rights issues have been turned into a political weapon in particular by the United States. The ministry also claims that such organisations as Freedom House and Human Rights Watch use the same scheme of voluntary extrapolation of "isolated facts that of course can be found in any country" into "dominant tendencies".[142] Putin has argued that Western-style liberalism is obsolete in Russia, while maintaining that the country is still a democratic nation.[143][144][145]"
As most other post-soviet countries with problematic human rights records such as Belarus, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan have separate sections on human rights in their bodies as well as descriptions of their human rights situations in their respective lead sections, I feel that it is appropriate to do the same with Russia. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS can be used to justify that articles such as these which are also for post-soviet states with problematic human rights records are more appropriate models for this article rather than countries such as Canada and Australia. Earlier discussions on human rights in the lead section for this article can be found here:
/info/en/?search=User_talk:Mellk#Concerning_your_edit_here
/info/en/?search=Talk:Russia/Archive_12#Changes_to_lead_section
Per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, it may be necessary to create a separate section on human rights first before adding human rights to the lead. DeathTrain ( talk) 16:02, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
An important aspect of Russia's relations with the West is the criticism of Russia's political system and human rights management (including LGBT rights, media freedom, and reports about killed journalists) by Western governments, the mass media and the leading democracy and human rights watchdogs. In particular, such organisations as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch consider Russia to have not enough democratic attributes and to allow few political rights and civil liberties to its citizens.[135][136] Freedom House, an international organisation funded by the United States, ranks Russia as "not free", citing "carefully engineered elections" and "absence" of debate.[137] Russian authorities dismiss these claims and especially criticise Freedom House. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has called the 2006 Freedom in the World report "prefabricated", stating that the human rights issues have been turned into a political weapon in particular by the United States. The ministry also claims that such organisations as Freedom House and Human Rights Watch use the same scheme of voluntary extrapolation of "isolated facts that of course can be found in any country" into "dominant tendencies".[138] Putin has argued that Western-style liberalism is obsolete in Russia, while maintaining that the country is still a democratic nation.[139][140][141]
Do you have any ideas on what else should be put in the section? DeathTrain ( talk) 14:54, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
https://web.archive.org/web/20080528015507/http://ombudsman.gov.ru/doc/ezdoc/06text_eng.doc DeathTrain ( talk) 01:19, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
No. It is not a topic what goes in a lead. Also this is not a place for advocacy of any type. 109.93.14.122 ( talk) 03:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
@ RenatUK: Here are some draft paragraphs I have been working on. Tell me what you think, or if you have any ideas on how to improve them. I also plan to write paragraphs on general restrictions on civil liberties as well as well authoritarianism and political repression, such as with Alexei Navalny.
In 2020, Reporters Without Borders reported that pressure on independent media has steadily increased since major anti-government protests from 2011-2013, ranking Russia 149th out of 179 countries for press freedom in its 2020 World Press Freedom Index, claiming that independent journalists who question the neoconservative and patriotic discourse vehemently spread by Russian state media have fallen under a climate of oppression. RSF also reported that murders and attacks against journalists remain under impunity, while selectively applied anti-extremism laws as well as territorial sovereignty grounds have been used to arrest journalists and bloggers. [1]
In November 2019, a controversial “sovereign internet” law ostensibly to protect Russia from foreign cyberattacks and other emergencies came into force, enabling the Russian government to consolidate control over the Internet in Russia by routing web traffic through state-controlled infrastructure. [2] Human Rights Watch reported that rather than protecting Russia from cyberthreats, the law creates a system open to abuse as it gives the government “virtually unlimited ability and authority to continuously monitor all internet activity to identify possible threats”, and that service providers will be legally required to be disconnected for noncompliance with the demands of authorities. Human Rights Watch has argued that the law is incompatible with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights, both of which Russia is a party to, and infringes upon the freedoms of expression and privacy protected by these treaties. [3]
In 2019, Human Rights Watch alleged that torture remained widespread, particularly in pretrial detention centers and prisons. Russian authorities often deny the existence of ill-treatment in their jurisdictions and accordingly take little if any action against its suspected perpetrators. [4] Dedovshchina refers to the systematic abuse and hazing of junior conscripts in the Russian military and other security apparatuses, primarily by senior conscripts serving their final year of compulsory duty and also by NCOs and officers. It is a legacy of the Soviet Union, and has also been documented in some other post-soviet republics. Despite some reforms made to conscription in the Russian military, the military NGO the Mother's Right Foundation estimates that 44% of conscript deaths are due to suicide while only 4% happen in the line of duty. [5]
DeathTrain ( talk) 01:42, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Here is a discussion I took part in earlier this year about human rights for the Mauritania article: /info/en/?search=Talk:Mauritania#Human_Rights_in_lead
I have already elaborated or attempted to add or improve the presentation of human rights in the lead sections of many countries, including
Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Iran&type=revision&diff=956163808&oldid=956148743
Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Afghanistan&type=revision&diff=965388713&oldid=964892601
Laos: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Laos&type=revision&diff=956165769&oldid=954381090
South Sudan: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=South_Sudan&type=revision&diff=959880691&oldid=959843750
Democratic Republic of the Congo: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo&type=revision&diff=959970075&oldid=959760288
Sudan: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Sudan&type=revision&diff=962056064&oldid=961286914
Egypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Egypt&type=revision&diff=981354542&oldid=980713191
Yemen: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Yemen&type=revision&diff=959970933&oldid=959606337
Saudi Arabia: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Saudi_Arabia&diff=prev&oldid=961531240
Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Vietnam&type=revision&diff=956279162&oldid=955692276
Tajikistan: https:/en.wikipedia.org/?title=Tajikistan&type=revision&diff=956466921&oldid=956066554/
China: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=China&type=revision&diff=955976919&oldid=955939585 DeathTrain ( talk) 02:04, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
@ RenatUK: Some points that I found prominent in the article were issues regarding Political freedoms and civil liberties (such as press freedom, freedom of assembly, suspicious killings of journalists, unfair elections and an unfair judiciary), society and ethnic-based issues (such as racism and xenophobia, LGBT issues, and the government's policies in Chechnya), and torture/abuse (such as in psychiatric institutions, prisons, police stations, and the military).
These are the verbatim first two paragraphs in the lead section of the Human rights in Russia article:
As a successor to the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation remains bound by such human rights instruments (adopted by the Soviet Union) as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (fully).[1] In the late 1990s, Russia also ratified the European Convention on Human Rights (with reservations) and from 1998 onwards the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg became a last court of appeal for Russian citizens from their national system of justice. According to Chapter 1, Article 15 of the Constitution adopted in Russia in December 1993, these embodiments of international law take precedence over national federal legislation.[note 1][2][3] However, from Vladimir Putin's second term as President (2004–2008) onward there were increasing reports of human rights violations.
Since the 2011 State Duma elections and Putin's resumption of the presidency in spring 2012, there has been a legislative onslaught on many international and constitutional rights, e.g. Article 20 (Freedom of Assembly and Association) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is embodied in Articles 30 and 31 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation (1993). A law was passed in December 2015 that gives the Constitutional Court of Russia the right to decide whether Russia can enforce, or ignore, resolutions from intergovernmental bodies such as the European Court of Human Rights.[4] DeathTrain ( talk) 21:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Do you have any suggestions on how to improve, or otherwise emphasize or elaborate it? DeathTrain ( talk) 15:35, 3 January 2021 (UTC)Human rights in Russia have been increasingly criticized in reports by human rights watchdogs. The Russian government rejects these reports.
Of course their ongoing Human Rights issues should be featured in the lead and prominently so, its one of the most important/notable things about the country. Horse Eye's Back ( talk) 18:47, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
DeathTrain ( talk) 01:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)Human rights in Russia have been ranked poorly by human rights watchdogs.
...that said to many new editors here with an agenda to get anywhere ...will have to weight for a long time .-- Moxy 🍁 08:03, 4 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
I personally think that Russia is a much bigger fish to fry. What is more important is that there should be a WP:CONSENSUS to do so in the article for the United States or for any other country. If that is to happen, it should probably begin in the talk page as is being done here, so I created a discussion on that talk page. But a comparison to the United States is a red herring. I am not the only editor who wants to elaborate upon human rights in the lead section of this article and I acknowledge that there is opposition to it, so the purpose of this particular discussion on this talk page is to resolve this dispute. DeathTrain ( talk) 01:34, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Noelcubit: How is a past discussion on an article for a different country relevant? It seems to me like you are trying to discredit or belittle me by using personal attacks and misdirection. Let's focus on the content, not the contributor. MOS:LEAD mandates that "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies." How does that exclude human rights? DeathTrain ( talk) 16:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Noelcubit: Do you have anything to contribute to the Human rights discussion on the Talk:United States page? DeathTrain ( talk) 14:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
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..-- Moxy 🍁 02:05, 15 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
Danloud ( talk) 10:31, 15 January 2021 (UTC)ranking the lowest among Western nations in government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
Mellk ( talk) 15:21, 15 January 2021 (UTC)ranking the lowest in Europe in government transparency and second lowest in freedom of the press and civil liberties.
Other examples of human rights abuses that could also be added include unfair elections, ethnic issues such as in Chechnya, and torture and abuse such as in the military and in psychiatric institutions, but I believe that those must first be included in the article itself. The details I added on those issues was removed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Russia&type=revision&diff=999926711&oldid=999893940 DeathTrain ( talk) 00:51, 16 January 2021 (UTC)International watchdogs have ranked Russia poorly in metrics of government corruption and human rights, citing issues such as significant limits on freedom of the press and on freedom of assembly.
Danloud ( talk) 10:52, 16 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
I guess I could also get behind a comparison with the rest of Europe, but I think we should first agree on which metrics should be used. What do you think of mentioning corruption, human rights, press freedom and democracy/authoritarianism? DeathTrain ( talk) 17:10, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Danloud ( talk) 19:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
It seems that in order to resolve this, we need a request for comment. DeathTrain ( talk) 21:01, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
@Noelcubit: Russia has an important geopolitical profile, and problems with corruption, internal repression and foreign interventions on a grand scale. It is definitely not Finland. Your Talk page has more official WP warnings in two months than I've received in 15 years; hopefully, your words here are not your deeds. Mason.Jones ( talk) 23:43, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
DeathTrain ( talk) 13:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)International watchdogs have accused the Russian government of authoritarian leadership and have ranked Russia among the worst in Europe in international rankings of corruption and human rights, citing abuses such as suppression of the political opposition and significant restrictions on press freedom and freedom of assembly.
DeathTrain ( talk) 20:52, 19 January 2021 (UTC)The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian, responsible for numerous human rights abuses and has also been rated among the worst in Europe in international rankings of corruption.
@ Noelcubit: If anything, at least the mentioning of human rights remained intact. I have since restored the examples of human rights issues I originally added in the lead section of that article, but I did not the ones that were added in subsequently as I felt that would be pushing a POV; no other country's article links the country's foreign policy as a human rights issue. I also added a note telling editors to discuss on the talk page if they want to modify the elaboration of human rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&action=history Now, do you have anything relevant or productive to add to the discussion on this article? DeathTrain ( talk) 18:58, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Noelcubit ( talk) 10:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
DeathTrain ( talk) 13:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
or should there be an RFC? DeathTrain ( talk) 18:53, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
If something is notable about the country, then it can qualify for the lead section, according to MOS:LEAD. I think that authoritarianism, corruption and problematic human rights are all aspects that the Russian government is reputed for, therefore making these subjects notable enough for the lead section. DeathTrain ( talk) 00:42, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Moxy: @ Danloud: @ Mellk: @ Noelcubit: @ RenatUK: @ TimothyBlue: @ Horse Eye's Back: It appears that due to further opposition to making the addition, it may now be necessary for an RFC. DeathTrain ( talk) 21:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
(11 August 2020) It's gone now. - 祝好, Sinoam( 聊天) 01:28, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Vladimir Putin became acting president on 31 December 1999 after Russia's first president, Boris Yeltsin, resigned and he was elected president in March 2000. Since then, he has dominated Russia's political system as either president or prime minister. His government has been accused by non-governmental organisations of human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption. In response, Putin has argued that Western-style liberalism is obsolete in Russia, while maintaining that the country is still a democratic nation.
This
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Republic !Map of the Union Republics between 1956 and 1991 207.231.232.82 ( talk) 19:19, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
The sentence "Moscow, the capital, is the largest city in Europe, while Saint Petersburg is the second-largest city" is directly contradicted by the list of largest European cities linked within it. I don't even see any possible measurement (metropolitan area, urbanized area, city proper, etc.) in which Saint Petersburg would be considered the second largest in Europe. Perhaps a rewrite of that sentence is in order? Jleon ( talk) 03:40, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
Due to persistent dispute over this issue, should Russia's human rights situation and/or government corruption be elaborated upon in the lead section of this article? Suggestions below.-- DeathTrain ( talk) 02:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
A few suggestions of text (more suggestions welcome)
A:
The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
B:
Vladimir Putin has dominated Russia's political system since 2000, serving as either president or prime minister. His government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
C:
Human rights in Russia have been rated poorly by human rights watchdogs. Russia's perceived government corruption is also ranked among the worst in Europe.
But if only given these three choices: B. - 祝好, Sinoam( 聊天) 01:56, 17 February 2021 (UTC)The Russian government is considered to be authoritarian by non-government organizations; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
E:
Following the resignation of Russia's first president Boris Yeltsin in 1999, Russia's political system has since been dominated by Vladimir Putin, serving as either president or prime minister. His government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
F:
The Russian government, dominated by Vladimir Putin since 2000 as either president or prime minister has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
G:
The Russian government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
DeathTrain ( talk) 15:38, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
H:
Vladimir Putin has dominated Russia's political system since 2000, serving as either president or prime minister. His government has been widely accused of authoritarianism and under his leadership, Russia has ranked among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of corruption and human rights.
Does anyone have any suggestions for improvement? DeathTrain ( talk) 21:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
I:
However, since 2000, Russia has been ruled by Vladimir Putin, who has been described as authoritarian. [a]
*I have move this section down from where it was erroneously placed at the top of the page. -- T*U ( talk) 22:09, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
Kaliningrad oblast (region) of Russia is located in Central Europe. I suggest wikipedia should mention that. It has to mention literally, that Russia is located in "Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Asia". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.222.146.79 ( talk) 20:29, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
If according to your personal opinion Poland is located wholly in Central Europe than how it could be, that Kaliningrad is not? Not even a square mile of its land is located more Eastern than Eastern border of Poland.
I think the definition of Russia as a "superpower/potential superpower" in the lead is misleading. Its status as such is debated and the country, by all its characteristics, fits the " great power" group of countries. I understand that "being considered a potential superpower" can be addressed separately, but it should be clear how "great power" it's Russia's status as of now. Lone Internaut ( talk) 19:37, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
I find it a bit weird how in the Soviet Union section of the article, the entirety of Central Asia and the three Baltic states joining the Soviet Union is not mentioned. Even though they were a part of the union for most of its history, they're not mentioned. Any particular reasons why it is so? They definitely should be mentioned. Danloud (talk) 22:22, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
"As of 2016, Russia had 1,452.2 km of roads;" should read "As of 2016, Russia had 1,452.2 thousand km of roads;", per the cited source. Holadaa ( talk) 00:12, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Crimea could be considered a disputed territory. Because Russia's annexation of Crimea is not recognized by the United Nations or the European Union. Ukraine still has a legitimate claim on Crimea not Russia. Thanos2556 ( talk) 03:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
This
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In the “economy” tab under “science and technology, “transformer” has been listed twice under “Russian discoveries and inventions. It’s listed a “transformer”, and again as “transformers” in the same paragraph. Both hyperlink to the same article about transformers. Please remove one of them. The paragraph containing the redundant transformer references had been pasted below:
Russian discoveries and inventions include the transformer, electric filament lamp, the aircraft, the safety parachute, sputnik, radio receiver, electrical microscope, colour photos,[252] caterpillar tracks, periodic table, track assembly, electrically powered railway wagons, videotape recorder, helicopter, solar cell, transformers, yogurt, television, petrol cracking, synthetic rubber and grain harvester.[253] 66.189.205.226 ( talk) 02:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
he was very influential 150 years ago but not today. He's cited 7 times and we need a modern scholar instead. Rjensen ( talk) 03:27, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
SCPdude629 has taken the official population number for 1 Jan 2020 (146,748,590) and subtracted a number they have found for the Russian death toll in 2020 due to covid-19 (162,429), coming up with a population number of (146,586,161), which they are now presenting as the 2021 population of Russia both here and at the article Demographics of Russia. It should not be necessary to say that this is not a correct use of sources,. It is a cross between original research and synthesis, see WP:OR and WP:SYNTH.
The official numbers are provided by the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat). On their main web site here they currently present the official number for 1 Jan 2020 as the "Population", which can be further sourced to the background data here:
It is also possible to find background data for 1 Jan 2021:
The key word here is "Preliminary", so this is not the final statistics. I have no idea how much the final numbers usually diverge from the preliminary numbers. I feel most comfortable using the 2020 number (146,748,590), especially since that is the number Rosstat use on their main page. If anyone have compelling arguments for using the preliminary 2021 number (146,238,185), I am open for that. However, any numbers produced by fancy calculations are completely unacceptable. -- T*U ( talk) 20:20, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I respect your decision however I need to assure you my intent is to contribute and to never sabotage under any circumstances. I hope things get sorted out better in the near future and please don't make me look like a bad guy, I'm only a contributor and have no intent or desire for vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SCPdude629 ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
For the record: Official estimate for 2021 is now to be found here:
Russia has 3.483.738 rank 1 active military soldiers Russia is the strongest country in the world szokol2003 ( talk) 03:59, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Vashrushev szokol 2004 Russian military has the biggest strongest and educated military force rank 1st in the world Emanuelszokol2003 ( talk) 04:06, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Chipmunkdavis:..... User:Danloud has done some great work here and is thinking about a GA run. Chipmunkdavis what do you think.....looking good ? any glaring problems. User:Rjensen mention one as seen above.-- Moxy- 13:57, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
I would like to elaborate upon other issues in the "Human rights" section of this article, particularly over fairness of elections, freedom of assembly, political repression, and abuse in dedovshchina and psychiatric institutions. Are any of the following sources acceptable?
Elections
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/110/2/448.full.pdf
https://www.eesti.ca/as-the-kremlin-tightens-the-screws-it-invites-popular-revolt/article50082
Freedom of assembly
https://www.hrw.org/news/2006/07/12/russia-attempts-stifle-dissent-summit
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur46/001/2014/en/
Dedovshchina
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/russia1004/6.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7425694.stm
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/world/europe/13hazing.html
Psychiatry/repression
Semple, David; Smyth, Roger. Oxford handbook of psychiatry. Oxford: Oxford University Press; 2013. ISBN 0-19-969388-9. p. 6.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092901592_pf.html
DeathTrain ( talk) 17:19, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
The culture section is the main obstacle for a GA run... its mostly unsourced and needs copy-editing. Especially the literature and art and architecture section. Danloud (talk) 10:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
There are two reliable sources that could be used:
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:25, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
The Health section got updated by User:Danloud it seems, but the Education section is very old, and hasn't been updated since a long time, pretty much a decade i think. Is a copy edit and an update possible on the section? 45.118.63.5 ( talk) 10:06, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
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What about the current Olympics? The drug problems. The fact that Russia wasn't allowed to compete in Tokyo. What happened to that entire section. Russian Censorship? 2601:81:8484:BA10:157B:FA12:BB8A:9E4D ( talk) 16:14, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
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Please remove the low-quality, spammy external link https://www.gairegaurav.com.np/2021/09/russia-geography-people-tourism-economy.html. 120.150.121.92 ( talk) 14:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC) 120.150.121.92 ( talk) 14:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
The Birth Rate in Russia is actually 1,82.-- 88.66.149.94 ( talk) 15:52, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
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103.218.133.243 ( talk) 11:50, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
{{Democrat Republic of Russia}]
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In the part science and technology you can add how Yuri Kondratyuk was crucial to the US lunar landing since he developed LOR years before in
around 1929 Sam.washington2124 ( talk) 04:11, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
In the history section it says "In 1648, Fedot Popov and Semyon Dezhnyov, two Russian explorers, discovered the Bering Strait, and became the first Europeans to sail to North America." I'm not sure if this is an error in wording but it is blatantly untrue as by 1648 there were already many well established European colonies in North America and they certainly didn't fly there. Also the first Europeans to Sail to North America were Vikings. 2607:F0B0:7:81E1:1C3E:C7E7:C87A:DF10 ( talk) 20:33, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Russian lands were generally referred to as Muscovy until PETER I officially declared the Russian Empire in 1721; the new name sought to invoke the patrimony of the medieval eastern European Rus state centered on Kyiv in present-day Ukraine; the Rus were a Varangian (eastern Viking) elite that imposed their rule and eventually their name on their Slavic subjects
[CIA - The World Fact Book, Russia, Government, Country name, etymology. https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/russia/#government] — Preceding unsigned comment added by QuasEditor ( talk • contribs) 17:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Whitewashing religious persecution is something which bullies do. I mean: Putin has revived the Inquisition and this would be pretty irrelevant when you think about the bigger matter
? The message is loud and clear: Russians live in a tyranny and they do not have human rights, such as freedom of religion. And that's right: in a tyranny individual human rights are pretty irrelevant
.
tgeorgescu (
talk)
15:30, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
If Russians behave like they would have religious freedom, they will land in jail. That's guaranteed by the Russian Justice. tgeorgescu ( talk) 18:30, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Chipmunkdavis: Sorry for the ping... but can Russia, in its current state, pass if nominated for GA? I have recently done a ton of work over the article. Although its pretty bloated in size, the entire article is well-sourced with reliable sources (most of them with quotes), no notable grammar issues and is neutral throughout, with no massive editor disputes. Its currently rated as a C-class article, which it definitely isn't at this point. Mspriz ( talk) 18:56, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
The synthesis of Byzantine and Slavic cultures that defined Russian culture for the next millenniumseems to equate Russian culture with East Slavic culture, taking for granted the nineteenth-century Russian imperial version of East Slavic historiography and ignoring current neutral views (along with the existence of historical Ruthenians, later self-identified Belarusians, Rusyns, and Ukrainians). Russia was not Kyivan Rus; it was one successor of it, in terms of nation, state, culture, and history.
Rus' ultimately disintegrated, until it was finally reunified by the Grand Duchy of Moscow in the 15th century.What, now? This would be quite a surprise for the people in the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia, Red Rus, and Carpathian Rus. Muscovy was not Kyivan Rus nor did it “reunify” it in the 15th century in any sense. Neither Muscovy, the Russian tsardom, nor the Russian Empire ever held all of the lands of former Kyivan Rus.
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The ancestors of modern Russians are the Slavic tribes
: this statement in
Russia#Early history is vague and inaccurate in almost every possible sense (in terms of ethnicity, national identity, citizenship, culture, state, or whatever). I don’t have access to the source to verify what it says. Certainly. these tribes weren’t the ancestors of all modern citizens of Russia, and the paragraph also discusses assimilation of Finnic peoples, implying others were ancestors of ethnic Russians too. —
Michael
Z.
21:41, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Mspriz: Excellent work on the article! I have a few suggestions: There are quite a few instances of MOS:SANDWICH (when text is sandwiched between two images); I suggest you either remove some images or use the multiple images template and put two images horizontally next to each other, such as in the "Literature and philosophy" section. The table in the "Political divisions" section only has two references. Perhaps mention the Belyayev circle in the "Music" section? Feel free to ask questions - Wretchskull ( talk) 17:17, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
The first graf in Russia#Etymology is misleading. It ought to make it clear that modern historiography doesn’t see Kyivan Rus as Russia, but a predecessor of three modern states (and of four nations, including the Rusyns). The “state centred on Novgorod” that lasted three years needs clarification. The mentioned Rus Land (rus’ska zemlia) was a region around Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Pereiaslavl in Kyivan Rus, sometimes interpreted as all of it, but only after the fragmentation of Kyivan Rus did Muscovy and Russia start using it to denote northeastern lands. Sorry I haven’t found time to chip in on improving this. Thanks for all the good work. — Michael Z. 18:50, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski ( talk · contribs) 16:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for
GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.
If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)
I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.
Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs)
Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.
and borders sixteen sovereign nations, the most of any country in the worldBest Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
It is the ninth-most populous country in the world and the highest in Europe with a population of 146.2 million.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
the whitespace in the rrefs is fine. Just need a bit more summary in the History and it'll be grand. Maybe remove a few of the refs that can be replaced. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 19:48, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Updated statistics from Rosstat puts the current population estimate as of 1 January 2022 at 145,478,097 (including Crimea) compared to 146,171,015 from 1 January 2021 (with a natural population decline of over 1 million – highest in post-Soviet Russian history). News articles: Interfax, TASS. Mellk ( talk) 09:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately, when it passed GA the article continued to use unreliable sources. Currently there is one citation needed and 18 better source needed tags; the holidays section is also tagged as needing trimming per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. These cleanup tags are incompatible with GA so unless they're fixed a reassessment would be necessary. Courtesy ping Lee Vilenski ( t · c) buidhe 10:37, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Mzajac: Regarding this you made, I previously removed this because I thought it was misleading. I mentioned this in my edit summary before but to me this makes it sound like East Slavs do not exist any more. And Russians are categorised as an East Slavic ethnic group. I do not think we need some kind of list of the East Slavic ethnic groups (with potentially controversial exclusion or inclusion of Rusyns). Thanks. Mellk ( talk) 06:15, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Several of the claims about Russian military strength are cited to a website called "Global Firepower". That site has no about page; I can't tell who's behind it, where they get their numbers, or who finances them.
Is it a WP:RS? If it is, then I don't think it should be, because I think any user should be able to verify for themselves whether a site meets the criteria for reliability.
In the absence of information, I presume they get their numbers from the CIA Factbook (or some other part of the DoD), which is common practice on Wikipedia, but seriously violates WP:NPOV.
Can we source these numbers from someone that is at least transparent about who they are and where they get their numbers? Like, the CIA or someone?
MrDemeanour ( talk) 20:08, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
This can't possibly be right unless you completely ignore the Chinese internet. 2A0D:6FC0:E82:C300:C48C:743C:7C50:7925 ( talk) 22:37, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Russia has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Russia should be labeled as an "authoritarian" state, given the modern-day military campaign of Vladimir Putin, imprisonment of anti-war protesters, and other heinous war crimes. Russia is not a democratic country anymore. 69.65.247.227 ( talk) 22:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
"a system of government by one person with absolute power." google definition of autocracy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Constellation314 ( talk • contribs) 15:28, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Hello. I read the geography section, and in my opinion it can have a little tweak. After the opening sentence, there is a sentence referring to how Russia spans the northernmost corner of Eurasia, and before that sentence can somebody put this sentence -- "It covers most of the landmass of Eurasia" - and then change the previous sentence to "and spans the northernmost corner of the latter" and put it after? Thanks. 45.118.63.5 ( talk) 13:16, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
When we talk about the distance between two points on Earth, a significant portion of readers might visualize taking a piece of string and spanning it over a globe (model of the Earth) from one point to the other. The path along the string is the shortest distance between these points along the surface of the Earth (a straight line beneath the surface is not considered when measuring countries). Mathematically this is called the distance along a geodesic line, here the distance along an arc (section) of a great circle. Another significant portion of readers might visualize a straight line on a common type of world map. The difference between these points of view would be negligible if we talked about the extension of mainland Portugal, but they are significant when we talk about a country that is "wrapped" nearly halfway around the North Pole. For this reason, when we indicate the distance between two remote points of Russia, we should make clear to the reader along which path the distance has been taken.
One webtool for measuring distances is www.distance.to. It allows not only place names as an input, but also coordinates, which is useful for places which are not in the place name list, like the Vistula Spit or specific islands of Franz Josef Land, or whenever the quality of the places-coordinates list of the tool is not satisfactory. Direct coordinate input only works with non-negative values (northeast) below 90°. Distances across the dateline are not correctly displayed as a graph, but are numerically correct in the examples checked.
With this tool, a query for the distance from Smolensk to Ust-Kamchatsk gives a result of 6,881 km and shows a path between these two points that passes over mainland Russia, but also over a short streches of the Polar Sea, (near Novaya Zemlya). This looks unexpected if we are used to distorted images of Russia on flat maps.
The 55½°N circle of latitude passes closely between Smolensk (54.78°N) and Ust-Kamchatsk (56.23°N). The path along this circle of latitude from the Smolensk meridian (32.05°W) to the Uts-Kamchatsk meridian (162.47°W) is 8,216 km long (school maths). As the two places are not situated exactly on this meridian, a small correction can be added to the east-west extension between them: 8,320 km ±170 km ( that is ±2 %, from 1 - cos54.78°/cos55.5° = 1.018 = 102%).
So the statements "Smolensk, in the west, is about 6.900 km apart from Ust-Kamchatsk, in the east" and "Russia extends over more than 8.000 from west to east between Smolensk and Ust-Kamchatsk" are both true. (Similar to saying "The endpoints of this horseshoe are 10cm apart. The iron extends 20cm between them.".) The difference in wording between "Russia extends" and "the points are ... apart" is significant.
In spite of bad quality of the places-coordinates list, "distance.to" gives mathematically correct results. It shows a distance of 10.007½ km both from 0°N 0°E to 0°N 90°E and from 0°N 0°E to 89.999999°N 0°E, so it models Earth as a sphere with a circumference of 40.030 km. The results for the distance between two points A and B can be verified as follows: express in cartesian coordinates the vectors a and b on a unit sphere (r=1) that point from the Earth's center to A and B. That gives : a1=r·cos(long)·sin(lat), a2=... etc. From the dot product equation a•b=1·1·cosθ the distance between A and B can be calculated as 40.030km × acos(a1·b1+a2·b2+a3·b3). Tim2007viatge ( talk) 22:34, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
Russia's westernmost point is at the Vistula Spit in Kaliningrad Oblast. Rounded to 1°/100, it is located at 54.46°N 19.64°E in OpenTopoMap (coordinates are shown in the URL) and also in GoogleMaps, just 200m away from the location in the List of extreme points of Russia. Russia's easternmost point is at Big Diomede Island in the Bering Strait. It is located at 65.78°N 169.01°W in OpenTopoMap and also in GoogleMaps, 2km away from the location in the List of extreme points of Russia.
The distance calculator tool "distance.to" returns a distance of 6,624.66km between Russia's westernmost point and "Diomedes-Islands" (Which it locates on the Big Diomede Island. Enter "Diomede-Islands" to "Nome, AK, USA" to see this). Another distance calculator tool "calcmaps" [4] returns a distance of 6,614.83km for a startpoint drawn on the Vistula Spit near the border and an endpoint drawn on the Bering Street Island labelled "Little Diomede" (There is just 1 Diomede Island on that map. The 2 Diomede Islands are just about 5km apart). My own calculation, using the method sketched further above on this talk page, gives 6.622,79km. So these 3 computations all give about 6,600km. My edit of 05:52, 9 December 2021 shows with school maths that a route with a length of about 6,667km exists between these points and says that this is still a bit more than the most direct route. This was my first edit of the Russia article and it deleted the following statement, because I consider it false: "Kaliningrad Oblast, Russia's westernmost part along the Baltic Sea, is about 9,000km apart from its easternmost part, Big Diomede Island".
This statement in the Wikipedia was a bad reformulation of a 1996 book by Glenn E. Curtis which says "Russia extends about 9,000 kilometers from westernmost Kaliningrad Oblast, the now-isolated region cut off from the rest of Russia by the independence of Belarus, Latvia, and Lithuania, to Ratmanova Island (Big Diomede Island) in the Bering Strait.". To understand why I call this reformulation bad, please see further above in this talk page, where I use the Smolensk-to-Ust-Kamchatsk example to explain why the difference in wording between "Russia extends" and "the points are ... apart" is significant.
Even in the original wording of Curtis, I find it problematic to use a formulation that couples "9,000 kilometers" with "westernmost ... eastermost" points in Kaliningrad and Bering Strait. Given that these points are just about 6,600km apart, I think there needs to be a clear formulation which saves the reader from the fallacy of believing that a plane, missile or whatever, travelling from one point to the other, has to cover a distance of 9,000km.
In my first edit of the article, I did an intent to "salvage" Curtis' 9,000km by interpreting them as a west-to-east distance along the 60°N circle of latitude. However, at that time I hadn't paid attention to how Curtis continues after the above quote. He writes "This distance is roughly equivalent to the distance from Edinburgh, Scotland, east to Nome, Alaska.". The interval beeing compared (Kaliningrad to middle of Bering Strait) lies within the interval chosen for comparison (Schotland to east coast of Bering Strait), if we interpret it as a distance along a west-to-east path. The increase is over 15%, from a 171° span to a 198° span. An east-to-west interpretation of this comparison is as unproductive as saying "The 171cm distance from this person's ankles to his eyes is similar to the 198cm distance from his feet to the top of his head".
After demonstrating that 9,000km is not the distance between these two points (which is 6,600km) and showing on this talk page that Curtis cannot be meaningfully referring to the length of a path in east-to-west direction, how else can we couple "9,000km" with the two endpoints - and make this relation clear to the reader? In my third edit of the article, I asked in the edit description <<How is "distance" defined in the "9000km" literature? Do geographers have a concept "distance on a route inside (former) national territory" or "distance on a route that goes over land as far as possible"?>>.
If it is "distance on a route that goes over land as far as possible", than it is not "Russia", but "Russia together with Lithuania, ..." that extends from one extreme point to the other. (Plus, Big Diomede is an Island).
I suspect it is "distance on a route inside former national territory" and the 1996 book reused an older statement about the Soviet Union. Adapting this to the westernmost point of Russia's contiguos mainland would have required a burdensome re-estimation of the distance. The clumsy (in my opinion) parenthesis "the now-isolated region cut off from the rest of Russia by the independence of Belarus, Latvia, and Lithuania" is a clue that nurishes my suspicion. Tim2007viatge ( talk) 22:39, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
After having participated in a series of alternating edits from 9 to 12 December 2021, I wondered if the discussion about 9,000km between eastern and westernmost points occured for the first time.
I jumped back in the version history in increasing time steps, as far as the version of 18:24, 16 February 2009. It says "The two widest separated points in Russia are about 8,000 km (5,000 mi) apart along a geodesic line. These points are: the boundary with Poland on a 60 km long (40-mi long) spit of land separating the Gulf of Gdańsk from the Vistula Lagoon; and the farthest southeast of the Kuril Islands, a few miles off Hokkaidō Island, Japan. The points which are furthest separated in longitude are 6,600 km (4,100 mi) apart along a geodesic. These points are: in the West, the same spit; in the East, the Big Diomede Island (Ostrov Ratmanova)." The distances are mathematically correct, but no reference is given. A reference would be especially important for "widest seperated", which cannot be demonstrated mathematicaly so easily.
Over 12 years later, the subject of distances consisted still of the same 8,000km and 6,660km between these two pairs of points.
This was eliminted with the edit of 15:58, 8 July 2021. It puts the "9,000km", "westernmost", "easternmost" instead, with reference to the 1996 book by Glenn E. Curtis.
On 8 December 2021, I bent this back to a more mathematical point of view, without knowing about the version history listed here above. This triggered alternating changes between Tim2007viatge and Mspriz, whose latest change deleted the subject of distances completely. In the intermediate versions, Mspriz helped by presentning the Britannica source.
The Encyclopedia Britannica includes a distance of "9,000km" that is free of the problematic association with westernmost and easternmost Kalingrad spit and Bering Strait island.
I will publish right now a version where distances are discribed with two sentences in the main text, plus details in footnotes. The first sentence presents the extensions of area from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, including the "9,000km". The second sentence presents the 8,000km distance between Kaliningrad and an island of the Kuril, but avoids claiming that this is the maximum geodesic distance (no source for this) and moves the endpoint of this distance from an island disputed by Japan to the farthest undisputed island of the Kuril. I hope the juxtaposition of "9,000km" and "8,000km" raises awareness that measuring distances is not trivial in the case of Russia. As references, the first sentence points to Britannica and the second sentence points to "distance.to". For over 12 years the distances in the geography section were presented in a way that appeals to mathematically minded people. Such kind of people could be tempted to challenge the Britannica data as unprecise. To prevent this, I put two footnotes at the end of the first sentence. The first footnote explains a way to interpret the Britannica distances as approximations. This explanation only refers to grid lines and geographical features which can be seen in the physical map of this article section. The second footnote confirms with two examples that the Britannica numbers are not maximum distances. Tim2007viatge ( talk) 22:45, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
“The two most widely separated points in Russia are about 8,000 km (4,971 mi) apart along a geodesic line. [a]" Tim2007viatge ( talk) 19:07, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
I cannot undo that change, because the Russia page has a stricter protection now, at the same time that Russia has militarily attacked Ukraine.
Regarding my suggestion to erase the north-south and east-west distances and replace them with the version (not by me nor by Mspitz) of 7July 2021: Automatic km-to-mile conversion should be applied, with the same magnitude of rounding for miles as for km. Footnotes on the Talk page can display badly (at least on the Android smartphone I am using). So, for more clarity, here is the suggested text “ The two most widely separated points in Russia are about 8,000 km (5,000 mi) apart along a geodesic line." And here is the footnote: " These points are: from the Vistula Spit and the southeasternmost point of the Kuril Islands. The points which are farthest separated in longitude are 6,600 km (4,100 mi) apart along a geodesic line. These points are: In the west, the same spit, and in the east, the Big Diomede Island." Tim2007viatge ( talk) 16:49, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Notes
Under Political Divisions, the map shows Crimea as a part of Russia. It seems to me it should appear as a disputed region. — MiguelMunoz ( talk) 00:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | → | Archive 18 |
As Human rights in Russia are a matter of controversy, I believe it may be necessary to elaborate human rights in the lead section. Due to recent edits, a sentence mentioning that "[Vladimir Putin]'s government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses" was removed from the lead section. [ [2]] Currently, Human rights are only mentioned in the Foreign Relations subsection of the Politics section of the article, describing that:
"An important aspect of Russia's relations with the West is the criticism of Russia's political system and human rights management (including LGBT rights, media freedom, and reports about killed journalists) by Western governments, the mass media and the leading democracy and human rights watchdogs. In particular, such organisations as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch consider Russia to have not enough democratic attributes and to allow few political rights and civil liberties to its citizens.[139][140] Freedom House, an international organisation funded by the United States, ranks Russia as "not free", citing "carefully engineered elections" and "absence" of debate.[141] Russian authorities dismiss these claims and especially criticise Freedom House. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has called the 2006 Freedom in the World report "prefabricated", stating that the human rights issues have been turned into a political weapon in particular by the United States. The ministry also claims that such organisations as Freedom House and Human Rights Watch use the same scheme of voluntary extrapolation of "isolated facts that of course can be found in any country" into "dominant tendencies".[142] Putin has argued that Western-style liberalism is obsolete in Russia, while maintaining that the country is still a democratic nation.[143][144][145]"
As most other post-soviet countries with problematic human rights records such as Belarus, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Azerbaijan have separate sections on human rights in their bodies as well as descriptions of their human rights situations in their respective lead sections, I feel that it is appropriate to do the same with Russia. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS can be used to justify that articles such as these which are also for post-soviet states with problematic human rights records are more appropriate models for this article rather than countries such as Canada and Australia. Earlier discussions on human rights in the lead section for this article can be found here:
/info/en/?search=User_talk:Mellk#Concerning_your_edit_here
/info/en/?search=Talk:Russia/Archive_12#Changes_to_lead_section
Per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, it may be necessary to create a separate section on human rights first before adding human rights to the lead. DeathTrain ( talk) 16:02, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
An important aspect of Russia's relations with the West is the criticism of Russia's political system and human rights management (including LGBT rights, media freedom, and reports about killed journalists) by Western governments, the mass media and the leading democracy and human rights watchdogs. In particular, such organisations as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch consider Russia to have not enough democratic attributes and to allow few political rights and civil liberties to its citizens.[135][136] Freedom House, an international organisation funded by the United States, ranks Russia as "not free", citing "carefully engineered elections" and "absence" of debate.[137] Russian authorities dismiss these claims and especially criticise Freedom House. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has called the 2006 Freedom in the World report "prefabricated", stating that the human rights issues have been turned into a political weapon in particular by the United States. The ministry also claims that such organisations as Freedom House and Human Rights Watch use the same scheme of voluntary extrapolation of "isolated facts that of course can be found in any country" into "dominant tendencies".[138] Putin has argued that Western-style liberalism is obsolete in Russia, while maintaining that the country is still a democratic nation.[139][140][141]
Do you have any ideas on what else should be put in the section? DeathTrain ( talk) 14:54, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
https://web.archive.org/web/20080528015507/http://ombudsman.gov.ru/doc/ezdoc/06text_eng.doc DeathTrain ( talk) 01:19, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
No. It is not a topic what goes in a lead. Also this is not a place for advocacy of any type. 109.93.14.122 ( talk) 03:28, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
@ RenatUK: Here are some draft paragraphs I have been working on. Tell me what you think, or if you have any ideas on how to improve them. I also plan to write paragraphs on general restrictions on civil liberties as well as well authoritarianism and political repression, such as with Alexei Navalny.
In 2020, Reporters Without Borders reported that pressure on independent media has steadily increased since major anti-government protests from 2011-2013, ranking Russia 149th out of 179 countries for press freedom in its 2020 World Press Freedom Index, claiming that independent journalists who question the neoconservative and patriotic discourse vehemently spread by Russian state media have fallen under a climate of oppression. RSF also reported that murders and attacks against journalists remain under impunity, while selectively applied anti-extremism laws as well as territorial sovereignty grounds have been used to arrest journalists and bloggers. [1]
In November 2019, a controversial “sovereign internet” law ostensibly to protect Russia from foreign cyberattacks and other emergencies came into force, enabling the Russian government to consolidate control over the Internet in Russia by routing web traffic through state-controlled infrastructure. [2] Human Rights Watch reported that rather than protecting Russia from cyberthreats, the law creates a system open to abuse as it gives the government “virtually unlimited ability and authority to continuously monitor all internet activity to identify possible threats”, and that service providers will be legally required to be disconnected for noncompliance with the demands of authorities. Human Rights Watch has argued that the law is incompatible with the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights, both of which Russia is a party to, and infringes upon the freedoms of expression and privacy protected by these treaties. [3]
In 2019, Human Rights Watch alleged that torture remained widespread, particularly in pretrial detention centers and prisons. Russian authorities often deny the existence of ill-treatment in their jurisdictions and accordingly take little if any action against its suspected perpetrators. [4] Dedovshchina refers to the systematic abuse and hazing of junior conscripts in the Russian military and other security apparatuses, primarily by senior conscripts serving their final year of compulsory duty and also by NCOs and officers. It is a legacy of the Soviet Union, and has also been documented in some other post-soviet republics. Despite some reforms made to conscription in the Russian military, the military NGO the Mother's Right Foundation estimates that 44% of conscript deaths are due to suicide while only 4% happen in the line of duty. [5]
DeathTrain ( talk) 01:42, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
Here is a discussion I took part in earlier this year about human rights for the Mauritania article: /info/en/?search=Talk:Mauritania#Human_Rights_in_lead
I have already elaborated or attempted to add or improve the presentation of human rights in the lead sections of many countries, including
Iran: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Iran&type=revision&diff=956163808&oldid=956148743
Afghanistan: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Afghanistan&type=revision&diff=965388713&oldid=964892601
Laos: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Laos&type=revision&diff=956165769&oldid=954381090
South Sudan: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=South_Sudan&type=revision&diff=959880691&oldid=959843750
Democratic Republic of the Congo: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Democratic_Republic_of_the_Congo&type=revision&diff=959970075&oldid=959760288
Sudan: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Sudan&type=revision&diff=962056064&oldid=961286914
Egypt: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Egypt&type=revision&diff=981354542&oldid=980713191
Yemen: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Yemen&type=revision&diff=959970933&oldid=959606337
Saudi Arabia: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Saudi_Arabia&diff=prev&oldid=961531240
Vietnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Vietnam&type=revision&diff=956279162&oldid=955692276
Tajikistan: https:/en.wikipedia.org/?title=Tajikistan&type=revision&diff=956466921&oldid=956066554/
China: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=China&type=revision&diff=955976919&oldid=955939585 DeathTrain ( talk) 02:04, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
@ RenatUK: Some points that I found prominent in the article were issues regarding Political freedoms and civil liberties (such as press freedom, freedom of assembly, suspicious killings of journalists, unfair elections and an unfair judiciary), society and ethnic-based issues (such as racism and xenophobia, LGBT issues, and the government's policies in Chechnya), and torture/abuse (such as in psychiatric institutions, prisons, police stations, and the military).
These are the verbatim first two paragraphs in the lead section of the Human rights in Russia article:
As a successor to the Soviet Union, the Russian Federation remains bound by such human rights instruments (adopted by the Soviet Union) as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (fully).[1] In the late 1990s, Russia also ratified the European Convention on Human Rights (with reservations) and from 1998 onwards the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg became a last court of appeal for Russian citizens from their national system of justice. According to Chapter 1, Article 15 of the Constitution adopted in Russia in December 1993, these embodiments of international law take precedence over national federal legislation.[note 1][2][3] However, from Vladimir Putin's second term as President (2004–2008) onward there were increasing reports of human rights violations.
Since the 2011 State Duma elections and Putin's resumption of the presidency in spring 2012, there has been a legislative onslaught on many international and constitutional rights, e.g. Article 20 (Freedom of Assembly and Association) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which is embodied in Articles 30 and 31 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation (1993). A law was passed in December 2015 that gives the Constitutional Court of Russia the right to decide whether Russia can enforce, or ignore, resolutions from intergovernmental bodies such as the European Court of Human Rights.[4] DeathTrain ( talk) 21:38, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Do you have any suggestions on how to improve, or otherwise emphasize or elaborate it? DeathTrain ( talk) 15:35, 3 January 2021 (UTC)Human rights in Russia have been increasingly criticized in reports by human rights watchdogs. The Russian government rejects these reports.
Of course their ongoing Human Rights issues should be featured in the lead and prominently so, its one of the most important/notable things about the country. Horse Eye's Back ( talk) 18:47, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
DeathTrain ( talk) 01:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)Human rights in Russia have been ranked poorly by human rights watchdogs.
...that said to many new editors here with an agenda to get anywhere ...will have to weight for a long time .-- Moxy 🍁 08:03, 4 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
I personally think that Russia is a much bigger fish to fry. What is more important is that there should be a WP:CONSENSUS to do so in the article for the United States or for any other country. If that is to happen, it should probably begin in the talk page as is being done here, so I created a discussion on that talk page. But a comparison to the United States is a red herring. I am not the only editor who wants to elaborate upon human rights in the lead section of this article and I acknowledge that there is opposition to it, so the purpose of this particular discussion on this talk page is to resolve this dispute. DeathTrain ( talk) 01:34, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Noelcubit: How is a past discussion on an article for a different country relevant? It seems to me like you are trying to discredit or belittle me by using personal attacks and misdirection. Let's focus on the content, not the contributor. MOS:LEAD mandates that "The lead should stand on its own as a concise overview of the article's topic. It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies." How does that exclude human rights? DeathTrain ( talk) 16:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Noelcubit: Do you have anything to contribute to the Human rights discussion on the Talk:United States page? DeathTrain ( talk) 14:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
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..-- Moxy 🍁 02:05, 15 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
Danloud ( talk) 10:31, 15 January 2021 (UTC)ranking the lowest among Western nations in government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
Mellk ( talk) 15:21, 15 January 2021 (UTC)ranking the lowest in Europe in government transparency and second lowest in freedom of the press and civil liberties.
Other examples of human rights abuses that could also be added include unfair elections, ethnic issues such as in Chechnya, and torture and abuse such as in the military and in psychiatric institutions, but I believe that those must first be included in the article itself. The details I added on those issues was removed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Russia&type=revision&diff=999926711&oldid=999893940 DeathTrain ( talk) 00:51, 16 January 2021 (UTC)International watchdogs have ranked Russia poorly in metrics of government corruption and human rights, citing issues such as significant limits on freedom of the press and on freedom of assembly.
Danloud ( talk) 10:52, 16 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
I guess I could also get behind a comparison with the rest of Europe, but I think we should first agree on which metrics should be used. What do you think of mentioning corruption, human rights, press freedom and democracy/authoritarianism? DeathTrain ( talk) 17:10, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Danloud ( talk) 19:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)ranking among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
It seems that in order to resolve this, we need a request for comment. DeathTrain ( talk) 21:01, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
@Noelcubit: Russia has an important geopolitical profile, and problems with corruption, internal repression and foreign interventions on a grand scale. It is definitely not Finland. Your Talk page has more official WP warnings in two months than I've received in 15 years; hopefully, your words here are not your deeds. Mason.Jones ( talk) 23:43, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
DeathTrain ( talk) 13:32, 19 January 2021 (UTC)International watchdogs have accused the Russian government of authoritarian leadership and have ranked Russia among the worst in Europe in international rankings of corruption and human rights, citing abuses such as suppression of the political opposition and significant restrictions on press freedom and freedom of assembly.
DeathTrain ( talk) 20:52, 19 January 2021 (UTC)The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian, responsible for numerous human rights abuses and has also been rated among the worst in Europe in international rankings of corruption.
@ Noelcubit: If anything, at least the mentioning of human rights remained intact. I have since restored the examples of human rights issues I originally added in the lead section of that article, but I did not the ones that were added in subsequently as I felt that would be pushing a POV; no other country's article links the country's foreign policy as a human rights issue. I also added a note telling editors to discuss on the talk page if they want to modify the elaboration of human rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=United_States&action=history Now, do you have anything relevant or productive to add to the discussion on this article? DeathTrain ( talk) 18:58, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Noelcubit ( talk) 10:47, 22 January 2021 (UTC)The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of government transparency, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
DeathTrain ( talk) 13:55, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
or should there be an RFC? DeathTrain ( talk) 18:53, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
If something is notable about the country, then it can qualify for the lead section, according to MOS:LEAD. I think that authoritarianism, corruption and problematic human rights are all aspects that the Russian government is reputed for, therefore making these subjects notable enough for the lead section. DeathTrain ( talk) 00:42, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
@ Moxy: @ Danloud: @ Mellk: @ Noelcubit: @ RenatUK: @ TimothyBlue: @ Horse Eye's Back: It appears that due to further opposition to making the addition, it may now be necessary for an RFC. DeathTrain ( talk) 21:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
(11 August 2020) It's gone now. - 祝好, Sinoam( 聊天) 01:28, 17 February 2021 (UTC)Vladimir Putin became acting president on 31 December 1999 after Russia's first president, Boris Yeltsin, resigned and he was elected president in March 2000. Since then, he has dominated Russia's political system as either president or prime minister. His government has been accused by non-governmental organisations of human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption. In response, Putin has argued that Western-style liberalism is obsolete in Russia, while maintaining that the country is still a democratic nation.
This
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Republic !Map of the Union Republics between 1956 and 1991 207.231.232.82 ( talk) 19:19, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
The sentence "Moscow, the capital, is the largest city in Europe, while Saint Petersburg is the second-largest city" is directly contradicted by the list of largest European cities linked within it. I don't even see any possible measurement (metropolitan area, urbanized area, city proper, etc.) in which Saint Petersburg would be considered the second largest in Europe. Perhaps a rewrite of that sentence is in order? Jleon ( talk) 03:40, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
Due to persistent dispute over this issue, should Russia's human rights situation and/or government corruption be elaborated upon in the lead section of this article? Suggestions below.-- DeathTrain ( talk) 02:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)
A few suggestions of text (more suggestions welcome)
A:
The Russian government is widely considered to be authoritarian; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
B:
Vladimir Putin has dominated Russia's political system since 2000, serving as either president or prime minister. His government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
C:
Human rights in Russia have been rated poorly by human rights watchdogs. Russia's perceived government corruption is also ranked among the worst in Europe.
But if only given these three choices: B. - 祝好, Sinoam( 聊天) 01:56, 17 February 2021 (UTC)The Russian government is considered to be authoritarian by non-government organizations; and the country ranks among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of perceived government corruption, freedom of the press and civil liberties.
E:
Following the resignation of Russia's first president Boris Yeltsin in 1999, Russia's political system has since been dominated by Vladimir Putin, serving as either president or prime minister. His government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
F:
The Russian government, dominated by Vladimir Putin since 2000 as either president or prime minister has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
G:
The Russian government has been accused of numerous human rights abuses, authoritarianism and corruption.
DeathTrain ( talk) 15:38, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
H:
Vladimir Putin has dominated Russia's political system since 2000, serving as either president or prime minister. His government has been widely accused of authoritarianism and under his leadership, Russia has ranked among the lowest in Europe on international measurements of corruption and human rights.
Does anyone have any suggestions for improvement? DeathTrain ( talk) 21:32, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
I:
However, since 2000, Russia has been ruled by Vladimir Putin, who has been described as authoritarian. [a]
*I have move this section down from where it was erroneously placed at the top of the page. -- T*U ( talk) 22:09, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
Kaliningrad oblast (region) of Russia is located in Central Europe. I suggest wikipedia should mention that. It has to mention literally, that Russia is located in "Central Europe, Eastern Europe and Asia". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.222.146.79 ( talk) 20:29, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
If according to your personal opinion Poland is located wholly in Central Europe than how it could be, that Kaliningrad is not? Not even a square mile of its land is located more Eastern than Eastern border of Poland.
I think the definition of Russia as a "superpower/potential superpower" in the lead is misleading. Its status as such is debated and the country, by all its characteristics, fits the " great power" group of countries. I understand that "being considered a potential superpower" can be addressed separately, but it should be clear how "great power" it's Russia's status as of now. Lone Internaut ( talk) 19:37, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
I find it a bit weird how in the Soviet Union section of the article, the entirety of Central Asia and the three Baltic states joining the Soviet Union is not mentioned. Even though they were a part of the union for most of its history, they're not mentioned. Any particular reasons why it is so? They definitely should be mentioned. Danloud (talk) 22:22, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
"As of 2016, Russia had 1,452.2 km of roads;" should read "As of 2016, Russia had 1,452.2 thousand km of roads;", per the cited source. Holadaa ( talk) 00:12, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Crimea could be considered a disputed territory. Because Russia's annexation of Crimea is not recognized by the United Nations or the European Union. Ukraine still has a legitimate claim on Crimea not Russia. Thanos2556 ( talk) 03:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
This
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In the “economy” tab under “science and technology, “transformer” has been listed twice under “Russian discoveries and inventions. It’s listed a “transformer”, and again as “transformers” in the same paragraph. Both hyperlink to the same article about transformers. Please remove one of them. The paragraph containing the redundant transformer references had been pasted below:
Russian discoveries and inventions include the transformer, electric filament lamp, the aircraft, the safety parachute, sputnik, radio receiver, electrical microscope, colour photos,[252] caterpillar tracks, periodic table, track assembly, electrically powered railway wagons, videotape recorder, helicopter, solar cell, transformers, yogurt, television, petrol cracking, synthetic rubber and grain harvester.[253] 66.189.205.226 ( talk) 02:41, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
he was very influential 150 years ago but not today. He's cited 7 times and we need a modern scholar instead. Rjensen ( talk) 03:27, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
SCPdude629 has taken the official population number for 1 Jan 2020 (146,748,590) and subtracted a number they have found for the Russian death toll in 2020 due to covid-19 (162,429), coming up with a population number of (146,586,161), which they are now presenting as the 2021 population of Russia both here and at the article Demographics of Russia. It should not be necessary to say that this is not a correct use of sources,. It is a cross between original research and synthesis, see WP:OR and WP:SYNTH.
The official numbers are provided by the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat). On their main web site here they currently present the official number for 1 Jan 2020 as the "Population", which can be further sourced to the background data here:
It is also possible to find background data for 1 Jan 2021:
The key word here is "Preliminary", so this is not the final statistics. I have no idea how much the final numbers usually diverge from the preliminary numbers. I feel most comfortable using the 2020 number (146,748,590), especially since that is the number Rosstat use on their main page. If anyone have compelling arguments for using the preliminary 2021 number (146,238,185), I am open for that. However, any numbers produced by fancy calculations are completely unacceptable. -- T*U ( talk) 20:20, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I respect your decision however I need to assure you my intent is to contribute and to never sabotage under any circumstances. I hope things get sorted out better in the near future and please don't make me look like a bad guy, I'm only a contributor and have no intent or desire for vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SCPdude629 ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
For the record: Official estimate for 2021 is now to be found here:
Russia has 3.483.738 rank 1 active military soldiers Russia is the strongest country in the world szokol2003 ( talk) 03:59, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Vashrushev szokol 2004 Russian military has the biggest strongest and educated military force rank 1st in the world Emanuelszokol2003 ( talk) 04:06, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Chipmunkdavis:..... User:Danloud has done some great work here and is thinking about a GA run. Chipmunkdavis what do you think.....looking good ? any glaring problems. User:Rjensen mention one as seen above.-- Moxy- 13:57, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
I would like to elaborate upon other issues in the "Human rights" section of this article, particularly over fairness of elections, freedom of assembly, political repression, and abuse in dedovshchina and psychiatric institutions. Are any of the following sources acceptable?
Elections
https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/110/2/448.full.pdf
https://www.eesti.ca/as-the-kremlin-tightens-the-screws-it-invites-popular-revolt/article50082
Freedom of assembly
https://www.hrw.org/news/2006/07/12/russia-attempts-stifle-dissent-summit
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/eur46/001/2014/en/
Dedovshchina
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2004/russia1004/6.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7425694.stm
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/13/world/europe/13hazing.html
Psychiatry/repression
Semple, David; Smyth, Roger. Oxford handbook of psychiatry. Oxford: Oxford University Press; 2013. ISBN 0-19-969388-9. p. 6.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092901592_pf.html
DeathTrain ( talk) 17:19, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
The culture section is the main obstacle for a GA run... its mostly unsourced and needs copy-editing. Especially the literature and art and architecture section. Danloud (talk) 10:28, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
There are two reliable sources that could be used:
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 04:25, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
The Health section got updated by User:Danloud it seems, but the Education section is very old, and hasn't been updated since a long time, pretty much a decade i think. Is a copy edit and an update possible on the section? 45.118.63.5 ( talk) 10:06, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
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What about the current Olympics? The drug problems. The fact that Russia wasn't allowed to compete in Tokyo. What happened to that entire section. Russian Censorship? 2601:81:8484:BA10:157B:FA12:BB8A:9E4D ( talk) 16:14, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
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Please remove the low-quality, spammy external link https://www.gairegaurav.com.np/2021/09/russia-geography-people-tourism-economy.html. 120.150.121.92 ( talk) 14:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC) 120.150.121.92 ( talk) 14:13, 29 September 2021 (UTC)
The Birth Rate in Russia is actually 1,82.-- 88.66.149.94 ( talk) 15:52, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
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103.218.133.243 ( talk) 11:50, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
{{Democrat Republic of Russia}]
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In the part science and technology you can add how Yuri Kondratyuk was crucial to the US lunar landing since he developed LOR years before in
around 1929 Sam.washington2124 ( talk) 04:11, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
In the history section it says "In 1648, Fedot Popov and Semyon Dezhnyov, two Russian explorers, discovered the Bering Strait, and became the first Europeans to sail to North America." I'm not sure if this is an error in wording but it is blatantly untrue as by 1648 there were already many well established European colonies in North America and they certainly didn't fly there. Also the first Europeans to Sail to North America were Vikings. 2607:F0B0:7:81E1:1C3E:C7E7:C87A:DF10 ( talk) 20:33, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
Russian lands were generally referred to as Muscovy until PETER I officially declared the Russian Empire in 1721; the new name sought to invoke the patrimony of the medieval eastern European Rus state centered on Kyiv in present-day Ukraine; the Rus were a Varangian (eastern Viking) elite that imposed their rule and eventually their name on their Slavic subjects
[CIA - The World Fact Book, Russia, Government, Country name, etymology. https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/russia/#government] — Preceding unsigned comment added by QuasEditor ( talk • contribs) 17:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Whitewashing religious persecution is something which bullies do. I mean: Putin has revived the Inquisition and this would be pretty irrelevant when you think about the bigger matter
? The message is loud and clear: Russians live in a tyranny and they do not have human rights, such as freedom of religion. And that's right: in a tyranny individual human rights are pretty irrelevant
.
tgeorgescu (
talk)
15:30, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
If Russians behave like they would have religious freedom, they will land in jail. That's guaranteed by the Russian Justice. tgeorgescu ( talk) 18:30, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Chipmunkdavis: Sorry for the ping... but can Russia, in its current state, pass if nominated for GA? I have recently done a ton of work over the article. Although its pretty bloated in size, the entire article is well-sourced with reliable sources (most of them with quotes), no notable grammar issues and is neutral throughout, with no massive editor disputes. Its currently rated as a C-class article, which it definitely isn't at this point. Mspriz ( talk) 18:56, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
The synthesis of Byzantine and Slavic cultures that defined Russian culture for the next millenniumseems to equate Russian culture with East Slavic culture, taking for granted the nineteenth-century Russian imperial version of East Slavic historiography and ignoring current neutral views (along with the existence of historical Ruthenians, later self-identified Belarusians, Rusyns, and Ukrainians). Russia was not Kyivan Rus; it was one successor of it, in terms of nation, state, culture, and history.
Rus' ultimately disintegrated, until it was finally reunified by the Grand Duchy of Moscow in the 15th century.What, now? This would be quite a surprise for the people in the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia, Red Rus, and Carpathian Rus. Muscovy was not Kyivan Rus nor did it “reunify” it in the 15th century in any sense. Neither Muscovy, the Russian tsardom, nor the Russian Empire ever held all of the lands of former Kyivan Rus.
|
The ancestors of modern Russians are the Slavic tribes
: this statement in
Russia#Early history is vague and inaccurate in almost every possible sense (in terms of ethnicity, national identity, citizenship, culture, state, or whatever). I don’t have access to the source to verify what it says. Certainly. these tribes weren’t the ancestors of all modern citizens of Russia, and the paragraph also discusses assimilation of Finnic peoples, implying others were ancestors of ethnic Russians too. —
Michael
Z.
21:41, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
@ Mspriz: Excellent work on the article! I have a few suggestions: There are quite a few instances of MOS:SANDWICH (when text is sandwiched between two images); I suggest you either remove some images or use the multiple images template and put two images horizontally next to each other, such as in the "Literature and philosophy" section. The table in the "Political divisions" section only has two references. Perhaps mention the Belyayev circle in the "Music" section? Feel free to ask questions - Wretchskull ( talk) 17:17, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
The first graf in Russia#Etymology is misleading. It ought to make it clear that modern historiography doesn’t see Kyivan Rus as Russia, but a predecessor of three modern states (and of four nations, including the Rusyns). The “state centred on Novgorod” that lasted three years needs clarification. The mentioned Rus Land (rus’ska zemlia) was a region around Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Pereiaslavl in Kyivan Rus, sometimes interpreted as all of it, but only after the fragmentation of Kyivan Rus did Muscovy and Russia start using it to denote northeastern lands. Sorry I haven’t found time to chip in on improving this. Thanks for all the good work. — Michael Z. 18:50, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Lee Vilenski ( talk · contribs) 16:18, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for
GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.
If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)
I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.
Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs)
Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.
and borders sixteen sovereign nations, the most of any country in the worldBest Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
It is the ninth-most populous country in the world and the highest in Europe with a population of 146.2 million.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 15:05, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
the whitespace in the rrefs is fine. Just need a bit more summary in the History and it'll be grand. Maybe remove a few of the refs that can be replaced. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ( talk • contribs) 19:48, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Updated statistics from Rosstat puts the current population estimate as of 1 January 2022 at 145,478,097 (including Crimea) compared to 146,171,015 from 1 January 2021 (with a natural population decline of over 1 million – highest in post-Soviet Russian history). News articles: Interfax, TASS. Mellk ( talk) 09:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Unfortunately, when it passed GA the article continued to use unreliable sources. Currently there is one citation needed and 18 better source needed tags; the holidays section is also tagged as needing trimming per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. These cleanup tags are incompatible with GA so unless they're fixed a reassessment would be necessary. Courtesy ping Lee Vilenski ( t · c) buidhe 10:37, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Mzajac: Regarding this you made, I previously removed this because I thought it was misleading. I mentioned this in my edit summary before but to me this makes it sound like East Slavs do not exist any more. And Russians are categorised as an East Slavic ethnic group. I do not think we need some kind of list of the East Slavic ethnic groups (with potentially controversial exclusion or inclusion of Rusyns). Thanks. Mellk ( talk) 06:15, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Several of the claims about Russian military strength are cited to a website called "Global Firepower". That site has no about page; I can't tell who's behind it, where they get their numbers, or who finances them.
Is it a WP:RS? If it is, then I don't think it should be, because I think any user should be able to verify for themselves whether a site meets the criteria for reliability.
In the absence of information, I presume they get their numbers from the CIA Factbook (or some other part of the DoD), which is common practice on Wikipedia, but seriously violates WP:NPOV.
Can we source these numbers from someone that is at least transparent about who they are and where they get their numbers? Like, the CIA or someone?
MrDemeanour ( talk) 20:08, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
This can't possibly be right unless you completely ignore the Chinese internet. 2A0D:6FC0:E82:C300:C48C:743C:7C50:7925 ( talk) 22:37, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
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Russia should be labeled as an "authoritarian" state, given the modern-day military campaign of Vladimir Putin, imprisonment of anti-war protesters, and other heinous war crimes. Russia is not a democratic country anymore. 69.65.247.227 ( talk) 22:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
"a system of government by one person with absolute power." google definition of autocracy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Constellation314 ( talk • contribs) 15:28, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Hello. I read the geography section, and in my opinion it can have a little tweak. After the opening sentence, there is a sentence referring to how Russia spans the northernmost corner of Eurasia, and before that sentence can somebody put this sentence -- "It covers most of the landmass of Eurasia" - and then change the previous sentence to "and spans the northernmost corner of the latter" and put it after? Thanks. 45.118.63.5 ( talk) 13:16, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
When we talk about the distance between two points on Earth, a significant portion of readers might visualize taking a piece of string and spanning it over a globe (model of the Earth) from one point to the other. The path along the string is the shortest distance between these points along the surface of the Earth (a straight line beneath the surface is not considered when measuring countries). Mathematically this is called the distance along a geodesic line, here the distance along an arc (section) of a great circle. Another significant portion of readers might visualize a straight line on a common type of world map. The difference between these points of view would be negligible if we talked about the extension of mainland Portugal, but they are significant when we talk about a country that is "wrapped" nearly halfway around the North Pole. For this reason, when we indicate the distance between two remote points of Russia, we should make clear to the reader along which path the distance has been taken.
One webtool for measuring distances is www.distance.to. It allows not only place names as an input, but also coordinates, which is useful for places which are not in the place name list, like the Vistula Spit or specific islands of Franz Josef Land, or whenever the quality of the places-coordinates list of the tool is not satisfactory. Direct coordinate input only works with non-negative values (northeast) below 90°. Distances across the dateline are not correctly displayed as a graph, but are numerically correct in the examples checked.
With this tool, a query for the distance from Smolensk to Ust-Kamchatsk gives a result of 6,881 km and shows a path between these two points that passes over mainland Russia, but also over a short streches of the Polar Sea, (near Novaya Zemlya). This looks unexpected if we are used to distorted images of Russia on flat maps.
The 55½°N circle of latitude passes closely between Smolensk (54.78°N) and Ust-Kamchatsk (56.23°N). The path along this circle of latitude from the Smolensk meridian (32.05°W) to the Uts-Kamchatsk meridian (162.47°W) is 8,216 km long (school maths). As the two places are not situated exactly on this meridian, a small correction can be added to the east-west extension between them: 8,320 km ±170 km ( that is ±2 %, from 1 - cos54.78°/cos55.5° = 1.018 = 102%).
So the statements "Smolensk, in the west, is about 6.900 km apart from Ust-Kamchatsk, in the east" and "Russia extends over more than 8.000 from west to east between Smolensk and Ust-Kamchatsk" are both true. (Similar to saying "The endpoints of this horseshoe are 10cm apart. The iron extends 20cm between them.".) The difference in wording between "Russia extends" and "the points are ... apart" is significant.
In spite of bad quality of the places-coordinates list, "distance.to" gives mathematically correct results. It shows a distance of 10.007½ km both from 0°N 0°E to 0°N 90°E and from 0°N 0°E to 89.999999°N 0°E, so it models Earth as a sphere with a circumference of 40.030 km. The results for the distance between two points A and B can be verified as follows: express in cartesian coordinates the vectors a and b on a unit sphere (r=1) that point from the Earth's center to A and B. That gives : a1=r·cos(long)·sin(lat), a2=... etc. From the dot product equation a•b=1·1·cosθ the distance between A and B can be calculated as 40.030km × acos(a1·b1+a2·b2+a3·b3). Tim2007viatge ( talk) 22:34, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
Russia's westernmost point is at the Vistula Spit in Kaliningrad Oblast. Rounded to 1°/100, it is located at 54.46°N 19.64°E in OpenTopoMap (coordinates are shown in the URL) and also in GoogleMaps, just 200m away from the location in the List of extreme points of Russia. Russia's easternmost point is at Big Diomede Island in the Bering Strait. It is located at 65.78°N 169.01°W in OpenTopoMap and also in GoogleMaps, 2km away from the location in the List of extreme points of Russia.
The distance calculator tool "distance.to" returns a distance of 6,624.66km between Russia's westernmost point and "Diomedes-Islands" (Which it locates on the Big Diomede Island. Enter "Diomede-Islands" to "Nome, AK, USA" to see this). Another distance calculator tool "calcmaps" [4] returns a distance of 6,614.83km for a startpoint drawn on the Vistula Spit near the border and an endpoint drawn on the Bering Street Island labelled "Little Diomede" (There is just 1 Diomede Island on that map. The 2 Diomede Islands are just about 5km apart). My own calculation, using the method sketched further above on this talk page, gives 6.622,79km. So these 3 computations all give about 6,600km. My edit of 05:52, 9 December 2021 shows with school maths that a route with a length of about 6,667km exists between these points and says that this is still a bit more than the most direct route. This was my first edit of the Russia article and it deleted the following statement, because I consider it false: "Kaliningrad Oblast, Russia's westernmost part along the Baltic Sea, is about 9,000km apart from its easternmost part, Big Diomede Island".
This statement in the Wikipedia was a bad reformulation of a 1996 book by Glenn E. Curtis which says "Russia extends about 9,000 kilometers from westernmost Kaliningrad Oblast, the now-isolated region cut off from the rest of Russia by the independence of Belarus, Latvia, and Lithuania, to Ratmanova Island (Big Diomede Island) in the Bering Strait.". To understand why I call this reformulation bad, please see further above in this talk page, where I use the Smolensk-to-Ust-Kamchatsk example to explain why the difference in wording between "Russia extends" and "the points are ... apart" is significant.
Even in the original wording of Curtis, I find it problematic to use a formulation that couples "9,000 kilometers" with "westernmost ... eastermost" points in Kaliningrad and Bering Strait. Given that these points are just about 6,600km apart, I think there needs to be a clear formulation which saves the reader from the fallacy of believing that a plane, missile or whatever, travelling from one point to the other, has to cover a distance of 9,000km.
In my first edit of the article, I did an intent to "salvage" Curtis' 9,000km by interpreting them as a west-to-east distance along the 60°N circle of latitude. However, at that time I hadn't paid attention to how Curtis continues after the above quote. He writes "This distance is roughly equivalent to the distance from Edinburgh, Scotland, east to Nome, Alaska.". The interval beeing compared (Kaliningrad to middle of Bering Strait) lies within the interval chosen for comparison (Schotland to east coast of Bering Strait), if we interpret it as a distance along a west-to-east path. The increase is over 15%, from a 171° span to a 198° span. An east-to-west interpretation of this comparison is as unproductive as saying "The 171cm distance from this person's ankles to his eyes is similar to the 198cm distance from his feet to the top of his head".
After demonstrating that 9,000km is not the distance between these two points (which is 6,600km) and showing on this talk page that Curtis cannot be meaningfully referring to the length of a path in east-to-west direction, how else can we couple "9,000km" with the two endpoints - and make this relation clear to the reader? In my third edit of the article, I asked in the edit description <<How is "distance" defined in the "9000km" literature? Do geographers have a concept "distance on a route inside (former) national territory" or "distance on a route that goes over land as far as possible"?>>.
If it is "distance on a route that goes over land as far as possible", than it is not "Russia", but "Russia together with Lithuania, ..." that extends from one extreme point to the other. (Plus, Big Diomede is an Island).
I suspect it is "distance on a route inside former national territory" and the 1996 book reused an older statement about the Soviet Union. Adapting this to the westernmost point of Russia's contiguos mainland would have required a burdensome re-estimation of the distance. The clumsy (in my opinion) parenthesis "the now-isolated region cut off from the rest of Russia by the independence of Belarus, Latvia, and Lithuania" is a clue that nurishes my suspicion. Tim2007viatge ( talk) 22:39, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
After having participated in a series of alternating edits from 9 to 12 December 2021, I wondered if the discussion about 9,000km between eastern and westernmost points occured for the first time.
I jumped back in the version history in increasing time steps, as far as the version of 18:24, 16 February 2009. It says "The two widest separated points in Russia are about 8,000 km (5,000 mi) apart along a geodesic line. These points are: the boundary with Poland on a 60 km long (40-mi long) spit of land separating the Gulf of Gdańsk from the Vistula Lagoon; and the farthest southeast of the Kuril Islands, a few miles off Hokkaidō Island, Japan. The points which are furthest separated in longitude are 6,600 km (4,100 mi) apart along a geodesic. These points are: in the West, the same spit; in the East, the Big Diomede Island (Ostrov Ratmanova)." The distances are mathematically correct, but no reference is given. A reference would be especially important for "widest seperated", which cannot be demonstrated mathematicaly so easily.
Over 12 years later, the subject of distances consisted still of the same 8,000km and 6,660km between these two pairs of points.
This was eliminted with the edit of 15:58, 8 July 2021. It puts the "9,000km", "westernmost", "easternmost" instead, with reference to the 1996 book by Glenn E. Curtis.
On 8 December 2021, I bent this back to a more mathematical point of view, without knowing about the version history listed here above. This triggered alternating changes between Tim2007viatge and Mspriz, whose latest change deleted the subject of distances completely. In the intermediate versions, Mspriz helped by presentning the Britannica source.
The Encyclopedia Britannica includes a distance of "9,000km" that is free of the problematic association with westernmost and easternmost Kalingrad spit and Bering Strait island.
I will publish right now a version where distances are discribed with two sentences in the main text, plus details in footnotes. The first sentence presents the extensions of area from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, including the "9,000km". The second sentence presents the 8,000km distance between Kaliningrad and an island of the Kuril, but avoids claiming that this is the maximum geodesic distance (no source for this) and moves the endpoint of this distance from an island disputed by Japan to the farthest undisputed island of the Kuril. I hope the juxtaposition of "9,000km" and "8,000km" raises awareness that measuring distances is not trivial in the case of Russia. As references, the first sentence points to Britannica and the second sentence points to "distance.to". For over 12 years the distances in the geography section were presented in a way that appeals to mathematically minded people. Such kind of people could be tempted to challenge the Britannica data as unprecise. To prevent this, I put two footnotes at the end of the first sentence. The first footnote explains a way to interpret the Britannica distances as approximations. This explanation only refers to grid lines and geographical features which can be seen in the physical map of this article section. The second footnote confirms with two examples that the Britannica numbers are not maximum distances. Tim2007viatge ( talk) 22:45, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
“The two most widely separated points in Russia are about 8,000 km (4,971 mi) apart along a geodesic line. [a]" Tim2007viatge ( talk) 19:07, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
I cannot undo that change, because the Russia page has a stricter protection now, at the same time that Russia has militarily attacked Ukraine.
Regarding my suggestion to erase the north-south and east-west distances and replace them with the version (not by me nor by Mspitz) of 7July 2021: Automatic km-to-mile conversion should be applied, with the same magnitude of rounding for miles as for km. Footnotes on the Talk page can display badly (at least on the Android smartphone I am using). So, for more clarity, here is the suggested text “ The two most widely separated points in Russia are about 8,000 km (5,000 mi) apart along a geodesic line." And here is the footnote: " These points are: from the Vistula Spit and the southeasternmost point of the Kuril Islands. The points which are farthest separated in longitude are 6,600 km (4,100 mi) apart along a geodesic line. These points are: In the west, the same spit, and in the east, the Big Diomede Island." Tim2007viatge ( talk) 16:49, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Notes
Under Political Divisions, the map shows Crimea as a part of Russia. It seems to me it should appear as a disputed region. — MiguelMunoz ( talk) 00:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)