![]() | A fact from Rock Diver appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 10 September 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The result was: promoted by
Cielquiparle (
talk)
20:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Created by Piotrus ( talk). Self-nominated at 13:29, 3 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Rock Diver; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall:
@
Piotrus: Good article. However, the source cited doesn't explicitly state that it was one of the first, which I feel is an issue.
Onegreatjoke (
talk)
22:28, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
Onegreatjoke, Hmmm, I'll ping User:TompaDompa who has a lot of experience in this topic area and is pretty good at analyzing the sourcing for wording and keeping me in check if I reach too far. I'll also propose an ALT1 below. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
Comment from TompaDompa I was pinged. The entry in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction is a relatively thin one when it comes to chronological information (it doesn't mention anything past the 1970s, for instance). In some other instance I might have been comfortable using it to say "an early example" if not "one of the first", but even that seems like going too far when Harrison himself calls the concept " a tried and true sf device". To be sure, I took a look at E. F. Bleiler's Science-Fiction: The Gernsback Years to see what it said about Murray Leinster's 1934 short story " The Mole Pirate" (also mentioned in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction). Looking at the "Motif and Theme Index", the story (indicated by the number 852) is listed alongside eleven others under " Matter, interpenetration" (it is also listed somewhat redundantly under " Interpenetration of matter" and " Perichoresis"). Among these are Charles Cloukey's 1932 short story " The Swordsman of Sarvon" and Ross Rocklynne's 1935 short story " Man of Iron", both of which fit the description of using technology for passing through matter. I also took a look at the "Motif and Theme Index" in Bleiler's earlier Science-Fiction: The Early Years, which likewise lists a number of stories under " Perichoresis" (among others Harriet Elizabeth Prescott Spofford's 1903 short story " The Ray of Displacement", also mentioned in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction). So I think that settles it: with several stories written that much earlier (and an unclear number written between between the end of Bleiler's survey and "Rock Diver"), it can't really be called one of the first or an early example. TompaDompa ( talk) 05:38, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
first fruited a basic technological idea in such a happy combination with story values that it is impossible to touch that idea again without having to find some totally new framework for itas "you have to find some new angle on the concept if you want to reuse it, because you can't surpass this story in this particular treatment of the concept". By the way, I would suggest using https://archive.org/details/Galaxy_v26n05_1968-06_2/page/126/mode/2up instead of Google Books for the reference. TompaDompa ( talk) 02:43, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Having written this I admit this is based on a lot of mentions in passing with WP:SIGCOV not met very well. @ Cunard - any chance you can work your magic here for more sources? It's a short story, not a book, so... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from Rock Diver appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 10 September 2023 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The result was: promoted by
Cielquiparle (
talk)
20:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
Created by Piotrus ( talk). Self-nominated at 13:29, 3 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Rock Diver; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall:
@
Piotrus: Good article. However, the source cited doesn't explicitly state that it was one of the first, which I feel is an issue.
Onegreatjoke (
talk)
22:28, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
Onegreatjoke, Hmmm, I'll ping User:TompaDompa who has a lot of experience in this topic area and is pretty good at analyzing the sourcing for wording and keeping me in check if I reach too far. I'll also propose an ALT1 below. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
Comment from TompaDompa I was pinged. The entry in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction is a relatively thin one when it comes to chronological information (it doesn't mention anything past the 1970s, for instance). In some other instance I might have been comfortable using it to say "an early example" if not "one of the first", but even that seems like going too far when Harrison himself calls the concept " a tried and true sf device". To be sure, I took a look at E. F. Bleiler's Science-Fiction: The Gernsback Years to see what it said about Murray Leinster's 1934 short story " The Mole Pirate" (also mentioned in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction). Looking at the "Motif and Theme Index", the story (indicated by the number 852) is listed alongside eleven others under " Matter, interpenetration" (it is also listed somewhat redundantly under " Interpenetration of matter" and " Perichoresis"). Among these are Charles Cloukey's 1932 short story " The Swordsman of Sarvon" and Ross Rocklynne's 1935 short story " Man of Iron", both of which fit the description of using technology for passing through matter. I also took a look at the "Motif and Theme Index" in Bleiler's earlier Science-Fiction: The Early Years, which likewise lists a number of stories under " Perichoresis" (among others Harriet Elizabeth Prescott Spofford's 1903 short story " The Ray of Displacement", also mentioned in The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction). So I think that settles it: with several stories written that much earlier (and an unclear number written between between the end of Bleiler's survey and "Rock Diver"), it can't really be called one of the first or an early example. TompaDompa ( talk) 05:38, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
first fruited a basic technological idea in such a happy combination with story values that it is impossible to touch that idea again without having to find some totally new framework for itas "you have to find some new angle on the concept if you want to reuse it, because you can't surpass this story in this particular treatment of the concept". By the way, I would suggest using https://archive.org/details/Galaxy_v26n05_1968-06_2/page/126/mode/2up instead of Google Books for the reference. TompaDompa ( talk) 02:43, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
Having written this I admit this is based on a lot of mentions in passing with WP:SIGCOV not met very well. @ Cunard - any chance you can work your magic here for more sources? It's a short story, not a book, so... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:48, 4 July 2023 (UTC)