This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I added a huge amount of information. Flyerhell 07:44, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I have a lot of high-quality sources on this topic and will contribute to the article when I find the time. The controversy is not completely accurate and also the libel trial and appeal is worth a longer description. -- Zero 09:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Does this really belong in this article? Flyerhell 18:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
The article as it stands is very inaccurate on the matter of the first libel trial, only mentioning the Becher issue. That was about the least of the accusations, and Judge Halevy was mostly concerned with it only because Kasztner lied about it in his testimony. It is not why Halevy accused him of "selling his soul to the devil". Halevy actually made a vastly more serious accusation. Here is Halevy's explanation of the "sold his soul" remark in the court judgement:
Bilsky discusses this over several pages and gives further examples of Halevy's words. It is clear that our article needs work on this issue. I propose to insert this quotation with some glue. -- Zero talk 06:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Apparently the only information on Keinermeize is available in Ben Hecht's Perfidy. Kastner was responsible for the rescue of the wealthy and public figures only. Keinermeize (Meaning land of bread in Hungarian or German) was the place the Jews were fooled into thinking they would be sent. Kastner knew about this.
It is written: Kenyérmező -- Ltbuni ( talk) 00:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Kastner played a role in her murder. See the reviews at: http://www.amazon.com/Perfidy-Ben-Hecht/dp/0964688638.
Under Rudolf_Kastner#Alleged_collaboration it says:
In 1960, sixteen years after the meeting with Kastner, Eichmann told Time Magazine that Kastner "agreed to help keep the Jews from resisting deportation — and even keep order in the collection camps — if I would close my eyes and let a few hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate to Palestine. It was a good bargain."
Does anybody know at which number/date this was of Time Magazine? Also, as it is now, it sounds as if Eichmann was actually interviewed by Time Magazine. Regards, Huldra 18:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of the text being copied from the above is relevant, and some not, and the way it's written is introducing problems with flow and repetition -- because it was written for a different article. The ref tags were also copied without editing, which led to empty ref tags. Would whoever would like to add this please write it in his own words for this article? Even if a lot of it is copied, it does need to be tailored to this text, as do the footnotes. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 21:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I just saw this story on Cspan today but dozed off in the middle of it! Can someone tell us what happened to Kastner's assasin? John celona ( talk) 19:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Why do we include a paragraph about his daughter and her children, including what she does for a living and where she lives? It seems unnecessary to include that much detail, wouldn't "He is survived by a daughter, a nurse who lives in Israel" be sufficient if mentioning her current status is deemed to add anything? Avruch T 12:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Dear User:Kope. I have noticed that you changed the date of death from 12-mar-1957 to 15-mar-1957. Do you have any references to support this change?
Thanks
TomyDuby ( talk) 09:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
PS. There is one more place where you should change the date, namely in the Infobox Person.
I'd just like to point out that in the summary at the top of the page it says he dies after 12 days of being shot, whereas at the bottom it says he dies after 9 days? I hope someone can confirm which one of these is correct. 122.105.134.189 ( talk) 10:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Mashkin, I reverted your edits for two reasons:
First, I think it's important to fully explain the reasoning of the lower court in the lead. It's barely possible to put too much weight on it, per UNDUE, given that Kastner was assassinated because of it. Secondly, you seem to be editorializing with this edit: "The reliability of the interview has never been clarified, not least because of the death penalty that Sassen faced in Holland." We would need a source for that. SlimVirgin talk| contribs 06:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed the following because it looks like OR. Could whoever wants to add it please post here what the source says? It's Kranzler, David (2004) The Man Who Stopped the Trains to Auschwitz: George Mantello. Syracuse University Press. No page number was given.
However almost all other historians disagree with weitz’s position, they argue that the heroes like George Manttelo, Rudolf Vrba, Solomon Schonfeld, Michoel Ber weissmandl, Rache sternboch, Rauel Wallenberg have saved thousand and even tens of thousands of Jews, while not collaborating with Eichman, and none of them was silent about the extermination in Auschwitz . [1]
SlimVirgin TALK contribs 12:58, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Reverting well sourced comments before checking the source is really unacceptable. It seems that slimvirgin is trying to have it appear that weitz’s position is the mainstream view among historians, he keeps reverting any source quoting the position of the other historians.
As Kranzler explains in his well documented Book, George Mantello has distributed al solvedor papers to thousands of jews, has publicized the Auschwitz protocols detailing the mass murder of Jews, Has publicized Hungary’s deportation of 12,000 Jews daily to Auschwitz from May 15 1944, had been working with the churches and foreign governments and the red cross to demonstrate against Hungary’s deportation, and putting pressure on Horthy to stop it. The deportations where halted on July 9 1994, and with that “200,000” Hungarian Jews survived the holocaust. In the same time Kastner remained silent, not notifying the masses, not notifying world leaders, no outcry what’s whoever. Kastner was busy negotiating his train, testifying in favor of 4 SS officer, and hiding the Auschwitz protocols under the shelf. While historians and the Israeli courts have had some disagreement about what kastners MOTIVE has been, almost all historians agree that the fact that kastner remained silent, has helped the Germans kill more Jews not less. ( Berkshires ( talk) 02:06, 11 January 2010 (UTC))
Reverting well sourced quote before checking out the source should be terated as vandalism, what place can I file a complaint with Wikipidia? ( Berkshires ( talk) 23:05, 11 January 2010 (UTC))
The reference is very clear, “The Man Who Stopped the Trains to Auschwitz: George Mantello , If you have not made the effort to research the source before deleting, but deleting info because it “PROBABLY doesn’t say exactly what says in the page”… I would consider that very unprofessional. As wikipidia rules say, reverts have to be done very carefully. (I think reverts are when you “delete” comments, not when you reposting a well sourced comment, correct me if I am wrong). Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berkshires ( talk • contribs) 02:38, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. The source should be cited clearly and precisely, with page numbers where appropriate, and must clearly support the material as presented in the article.
Thanks for quoting the Wikipidia rules, however I think you left out a few other paragraphs in the same article, here is what wikipidia says regarding deleting items.
If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, consider tagging a sentence by adding the {{citation needed}} template, a section with {{unreferencedsection}}, or the article with {{refimprove}} or {{unreferenced}}. Alternatively, you may leave a note on the talk page requesting a source, or move the material to the talk page. Do not leave unsourced or poorly sourced material in an article if it might damage the reputation of living persons or organizations, and do not move it to the talk page.”[2]::
So can you please restore the comment, and I can guide you where you can exactly find the information, or MAYBE you make the effort to read the book before deleting??? ( Berkshires ( talk) 22:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC))
Berkshires has restored the edit for the eighth time, still without a page number. I've looked through the Kranzler book, but can't find what would support it:
However almost all other historians disagree with weitz’s position, they argue that the heroes like George Manttelo, Rudolf Vrba, Solomon Schonfeld, Michoel Ber weissmandl, Rache sternboch, Rauel Wallenberg have saved thousand and even tens of thousands of Jews, while not collaborating with Eichman, and none of them was silent about the extermination in Auschwitz.
Even with a source, it isn't written appropriately, but we can cross that bridge if a page number is ever produced. SlimVirgin TALK contribs 23:41, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank you slimvirgin for not reverting my comment for the eight time… I will do some work tonight and get exact page numbers & quotes so we can resolve this matter tomorrow. Thank You < Berkshires ( talk) 00:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)>
It seems like slimvirgin or plot spoiler (maybe they are both the same person) would not give me a chance to get exact page numbers & quotes, but just keeps reverting, so I guess we will continue to add well sourced information. <
Berkshires (
talk)
01:30, 13 January 2010 (UTC)>
Thanks Alex, I have made some corrections and have added other historians that disagree with Weitz, I am working to get page numbers and exact quotes to improve the quality of the comment, however to keep reverting well sourced info just because you want to know what page number it is, is not a good way to resolve editing disputes. <
Berkshires (
talk)
01:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)>
I am restoring the comments the way it was edited by Alex Bakharev , while there is definitely a legitimate point to ask for a page number, it is not legitimate to DELETE because of that, rather a “citation needed” should be inserted. As long as slimvergin would keep deleting I would have no choice but to add comments that are well sourced so this article stays neutral. Thanks <
Berkshires (
talk)
01:51, 14 January 2010 (UTC)>
Thanks<22:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berkshires ( talk • contribs)
I could not find a discussion of "Kastner" versus "Kasztner", so I can't offer proof of either as being correct. It appears that "Kastner" is a moderately common German name and that "Kasztner" is the Hungarian variant. In Hungarian it would matter because "sz" is pronounced like English "s" whereas a lonely "s" is pronounced like "sh". Randolph Braham (author of the definitive study of the Holocaust in Hungary) uses "Kasztner", but Yehuda Bauer uses "Kastner". The Library of Congress catalogue lists a book of "Kasztner, Rezső Rudolf" titled "Der Kastner-Bericht über Eichmanns Menschenhandel in Ungarn", which has both spellings in the same bibliographic record. We should give both spellings in the header of the article. -- Zero talk 01:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
His name was not Rudolf Kastner. This is a Germanized version of the name that some English sources have adopted. His real name was Kasztner Rezső, which is a perfectly normal Hungarian name. This is easy to prove and I can bring many sources if anyone doubts it. I also don't believe that WP:COMMONNAME dictates use of the incorrect version, since the correct version is very common in English and more so in scholarly sources. However, since I think the style manual tells us to put the given name first, I propose renaming the article to Rezső Kasztner and adopting those spellings throughout. Please comment. Zero talk 12:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Please see /info/en/?search=Talk:Mapai#Ihud_party regarding possible error in this article where it is stated "the Ihud party, later known as Mapai".-- Brenont ( talk) 21:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
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As agreed in Archive 1 but somehow never executed, I plan to move this article to the correct name Rezső Kasztner after waiting a day for objections. The reason is that "Kastner" is not a Hungarian name but rather the Germanised version of the correct Hungarian spelling. Moreover WP:COMMONNAME is not a objection since the correct spelling is very common in the professional English literature on this person. As for the name "Rudolf", although it is used in Hungary it is not the same as his original first name Rezső. There is no doubt that he used it sometimes, though. See here for quick confirmation of Kastner versus Kasztner. Search "Kasztner" at Google scholar for a large number of hits. "Israel" was his Hebrew first name and I don't know if he was given it at birth or took it later. Also see his page at the Hungarian wiki (which uses the standard Hungarian name ordering) and his page at the Hebrew wiki to check that his family name written in Hebrew matches how Kasztner is pronounced in Hungarian but not how Kastner would be pronounced. Zero talk 19:46, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
@zero0000 Rudolf Kastner at Wikimedia commons should be changed too. (I'm new at this, so won't attempt on my own) Hydromania ( talk) 06:41, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Are you serious?
Can't even find this number in the source [2] you posted.
But even logistically this sounds completely impossible to me.
At that time, summer 1944, the Nazis had already much more serious problems with the war than killing jews just for fun and expenses.
No jew who had the money to flee was at that time still in Europe. The only thing that makes therefor sense is deportation for forced labor all around the Reich.
In my opinion, the 800.000 figure is a Sowjet propaganda myth. Because you can kill 8.000 to 13.000 a day, but not burn them in that time.
Why do you still operate with such exorbitant numbers, if even the Auschwitz administration has admitted, that figures of the past were totally exaggerated?
Stop using the Holocaust as propaganda. Show some respect for those jews who really died in that war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.114.202.121 ( talk) 16:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The blog entry written by Berel Wein on www.jewishhistory.org website is hardly of any value that could be described as reliable historical source. It can rather be described as "story told to children by a grandfather at the fireplace during long winter evening". Not that it is false. It just is not a reliable source. It, itself, does not use any pointers to historical sources. I am sure that other sources recognized by Academia exist. Therefore, it should not be used as a source in Wikipedia articles.
Also, the sentence "[...] Hungary's Jews were deported to the gas chambers at Auschwitz [...]" makes no sense. One cannot be deported to a gas chamber. However, it could be successfully argued that be one can be "deported to Auschwitz". Although, even this not exactly precise enough for a serious Wikipedia article. One can be "deported to a country" but, not to a place (town or camp, in this case). Certainly, one cannot be "deported to the gas chamber". Therefore, in my opinion, this should be changed to something like "[...] Hungary's Jews were sent to the death camp at Auschwitz [...]". And if these Hungarian Jews were all sent to their death in gas chambers at or, shortly after, arrival and, at a rate of 12000 people a day, an appropriate source should be presented as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FA48:6EDA:1C10:1C86:B9A5:3549:276D ( talk) 15:52, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
" caught by the Hungarian underground police." "the other two were brought to Kasztner" who caught them and turned them to Kasztner? contradicted by other wiki entries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.191.14 ( talk) 15:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
If anyone is interested he was born on 14 APRIL 1906. Ancestry is not accepted for citations: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/31339708/person/26048691749/facts GrimRob ( talk) 23:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I added a huge amount of information. Flyerhell 07:44, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I have a lot of high-quality sources on this topic and will contribute to the article when I find the time. The controversy is not completely accurate and also the libel trial and appeal is worth a longer description. -- Zero 09:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Does this really belong in this article? Flyerhell 18:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
The article as it stands is very inaccurate on the matter of the first libel trial, only mentioning the Becher issue. That was about the least of the accusations, and Judge Halevy was mostly concerned with it only because Kasztner lied about it in his testimony. It is not why Halevy accused him of "selling his soul to the devil". Halevy actually made a vastly more serious accusation. Here is Halevy's explanation of the "sold his soul" remark in the court judgement:
Bilsky discusses this over several pages and gives further examples of Halevy's words. It is clear that our article needs work on this issue. I propose to insert this quotation with some glue. -- Zero talk 06:54, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Apparently the only information on Keinermeize is available in Ben Hecht's Perfidy. Kastner was responsible for the rescue of the wealthy and public figures only. Keinermeize (Meaning land of bread in Hungarian or German) was the place the Jews were fooled into thinking they would be sent. Kastner knew about this.
It is written: Kenyérmező -- Ltbuni ( talk) 00:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
Kastner played a role in her murder. See the reviews at: http://www.amazon.com/Perfidy-Ben-Hecht/dp/0964688638.
Under Rudolf_Kastner#Alleged_collaboration it says:
In 1960, sixteen years after the meeting with Kastner, Eichmann told Time Magazine that Kastner "agreed to help keep the Jews from resisting deportation — and even keep order in the collection camps — if I would close my eyes and let a few hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate to Palestine. It was a good bargain."
Does anybody know at which number/date this was of Time Magazine? Also, as it is now, it sounds as if Eichmann was actually interviewed by Time Magazine. Regards, Huldra 18:39, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Some of the text being copied from the above is relevant, and some not, and the way it's written is introducing problems with flow and repetition -- because it was written for a different article. The ref tags were also copied without editing, which led to empty ref tags. Would whoever would like to add this please write it in his own words for this article? Even if a lot of it is copied, it does need to be tailored to this text, as do the footnotes. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 21:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I just saw this story on Cspan today but dozed off in the middle of it! Can someone tell us what happened to Kastner's assasin? John celona ( talk) 19:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Why do we include a paragraph about his daughter and her children, including what she does for a living and where she lives? It seems unnecessary to include that much detail, wouldn't "He is survived by a daughter, a nurse who lives in Israel" be sufficient if mentioning her current status is deemed to add anything? Avruch T 12:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Dear User:Kope. I have noticed that you changed the date of death from 12-mar-1957 to 15-mar-1957. Do you have any references to support this change?
Thanks
TomyDuby ( talk) 09:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
PS. There is one more place where you should change the date, namely in the Infobox Person.
I'd just like to point out that in the summary at the top of the page it says he dies after 12 days of being shot, whereas at the bottom it says he dies after 9 days? I hope someone can confirm which one of these is correct. 122.105.134.189 ( talk) 10:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Mashkin, I reverted your edits for two reasons:
First, I think it's important to fully explain the reasoning of the lower court in the lead. It's barely possible to put too much weight on it, per UNDUE, given that Kastner was assassinated because of it. Secondly, you seem to be editorializing with this edit: "The reliability of the interview has never been clarified, not least because of the death penalty that Sassen faced in Holland." We would need a source for that. SlimVirgin talk| contribs 06:32, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed the following because it looks like OR. Could whoever wants to add it please post here what the source says? It's Kranzler, David (2004) The Man Who Stopped the Trains to Auschwitz: George Mantello. Syracuse University Press. No page number was given.
However almost all other historians disagree with weitz’s position, they argue that the heroes like George Manttelo, Rudolf Vrba, Solomon Schonfeld, Michoel Ber weissmandl, Rache sternboch, Rauel Wallenberg have saved thousand and even tens of thousands of Jews, while not collaborating with Eichman, and none of them was silent about the extermination in Auschwitz . [1]
SlimVirgin TALK contribs 12:58, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Reverting well sourced comments before checking the source is really unacceptable. It seems that slimvirgin is trying to have it appear that weitz’s position is the mainstream view among historians, he keeps reverting any source quoting the position of the other historians.
As Kranzler explains in his well documented Book, George Mantello has distributed al solvedor papers to thousands of jews, has publicized the Auschwitz protocols detailing the mass murder of Jews, Has publicized Hungary’s deportation of 12,000 Jews daily to Auschwitz from May 15 1944, had been working with the churches and foreign governments and the red cross to demonstrate against Hungary’s deportation, and putting pressure on Horthy to stop it. The deportations where halted on July 9 1994, and with that “200,000” Hungarian Jews survived the holocaust. In the same time Kastner remained silent, not notifying the masses, not notifying world leaders, no outcry what’s whoever. Kastner was busy negotiating his train, testifying in favor of 4 SS officer, and hiding the Auschwitz protocols under the shelf. While historians and the Israeli courts have had some disagreement about what kastners MOTIVE has been, almost all historians agree that the fact that kastner remained silent, has helped the Germans kill more Jews not less. ( Berkshires ( talk) 02:06, 11 January 2010 (UTC))
Reverting well sourced quote before checking out the source should be terated as vandalism, what place can I file a complaint with Wikipidia? ( Berkshires ( talk) 23:05, 11 January 2010 (UTC))
The reference is very clear, “The Man Who Stopped the Trains to Auschwitz: George Mantello , If you have not made the effort to research the source before deleting, but deleting info because it “PROBABLY doesn’t say exactly what says in the page”… I would consider that very unprofessional. As wikipidia rules say, reverts have to be done very carefully. (I think reverts are when you “delete” comments, not when you reposting a well sourced comment, correct me if I am wrong). Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berkshires ( talk • contribs) 02:38, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. The source should be cited clearly and precisely, with page numbers where appropriate, and must clearly support the material as presented in the article.
Thanks for quoting the Wikipidia rules, however I think you left out a few other paragraphs in the same article, here is what wikipidia says regarding deleting items.
If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, consider tagging a sentence by adding the {{citation needed}} template, a section with {{unreferencedsection}}, or the article with {{refimprove}} or {{unreferenced}}. Alternatively, you may leave a note on the talk page requesting a source, or move the material to the talk page. Do not leave unsourced or poorly sourced material in an article if it might damage the reputation of living persons or organizations, and do not move it to the talk page.”[2]::
So can you please restore the comment, and I can guide you where you can exactly find the information, or MAYBE you make the effort to read the book before deleting??? ( Berkshires ( talk) 22:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC))
Berkshires has restored the edit for the eighth time, still without a page number. I've looked through the Kranzler book, but can't find what would support it:
However almost all other historians disagree with weitz’s position, they argue that the heroes like George Manttelo, Rudolf Vrba, Solomon Schonfeld, Michoel Ber weissmandl, Rache sternboch, Rauel Wallenberg have saved thousand and even tens of thousands of Jews, while not collaborating with Eichman, and none of them was silent about the extermination in Auschwitz.
Even with a source, it isn't written appropriately, but we can cross that bridge if a page number is ever produced. SlimVirgin TALK contribs 23:41, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank you slimvirgin for not reverting my comment for the eight time… I will do some work tonight and get exact page numbers & quotes so we can resolve this matter tomorrow. Thank You < Berkshires ( talk) 00:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)>
It seems like slimvirgin or plot spoiler (maybe they are both the same person) would not give me a chance to get exact page numbers & quotes, but just keeps reverting, so I guess we will continue to add well sourced information. <
Berkshires (
talk)
01:30, 13 January 2010 (UTC)>
Thanks Alex, I have made some corrections and have added other historians that disagree with Weitz, I am working to get page numbers and exact quotes to improve the quality of the comment, however to keep reverting well sourced info just because you want to know what page number it is, is not a good way to resolve editing disputes. <
Berkshires (
talk)
01:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)>
I am restoring the comments the way it was edited by Alex Bakharev , while there is definitely a legitimate point to ask for a page number, it is not legitimate to DELETE because of that, rather a “citation needed” should be inserted. As long as slimvergin would keep deleting I would have no choice but to add comments that are well sourced so this article stays neutral. Thanks <
Berkshires (
talk)
01:51, 14 January 2010 (UTC)>
Thanks<22:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berkshires ( talk • contribs)
I could not find a discussion of "Kastner" versus "Kasztner", so I can't offer proof of either as being correct. It appears that "Kastner" is a moderately common German name and that "Kasztner" is the Hungarian variant. In Hungarian it would matter because "sz" is pronounced like English "s" whereas a lonely "s" is pronounced like "sh". Randolph Braham (author of the definitive study of the Holocaust in Hungary) uses "Kasztner", but Yehuda Bauer uses "Kastner". The Library of Congress catalogue lists a book of "Kasztner, Rezső Rudolf" titled "Der Kastner-Bericht über Eichmanns Menschenhandel in Ungarn", which has both spellings in the same bibliographic record. We should give both spellings in the header of the article. -- Zero talk 01:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
His name was not Rudolf Kastner. This is a Germanized version of the name that some English sources have adopted. His real name was Kasztner Rezső, which is a perfectly normal Hungarian name. This is easy to prove and I can bring many sources if anyone doubts it. I also don't believe that WP:COMMONNAME dictates use of the incorrect version, since the correct version is very common in English and more so in scholarly sources. However, since I think the style manual tells us to put the given name first, I propose renaming the article to Rezső Kasztner and adopting those spellings throughout. Please comment. Zero talk 12:09, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Please see /info/en/?search=Talk:Mapai#Ihud_party regarding possible error in this article where it is stated "the Ihud party, later known as Mapai".-- Brenont ( talk) 21:20, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:14, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
As agreed in Archive 1 but somehow never executed, I plan to move this article to the correct name Rezső Kasztner after waiting a day for objections. The reason is that "Kastner" is not a Hungarian name but rather the Germanised version of the correct Hungarian spelling. Moreover WP:COMMONNAME is not a objection since the correct spelling is very common in the professional English literature on this person. As for the name "Rudolf", although it is used in Hungary it is not the same as his original first name Rezső. There is no doubt that he used it sometimes, though. See here for quick confirmation of Kastner versus Kasztner. Search "Kasztner" at Google scholar for a large number of hits. "Israel" was his Hebrew first name and I don't know if he was given it at birth or took it later. Also see his page at the Hungarian wiki (which uses the standard Hungarian name ordering) and his page at the Hebrew wiki to check that his family name written in Hebrew matches how Kasztner is pronounced in Hungarian but not how Kastner would be pronounced. Zero talk 19:46, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
@zero0000 Rudolf Kastner at Wikimedia commons should be changed too. (I'm new at this, so won't attempt on my own) Hydromania ( talk) 06:41, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
Are you serious?
Can't even find this number in the source [2] you posted.
But even logistically this sounds completely impossible to me.
At that time, summer 1944, the Nazis had already much more serious problems with the war than killing jews just for fun and expenses.
No jew who had the money to flee was at that time still in Europe. The only thing that makes therefor sense is deportation for forced labor all around the Reich.
In my opinion, the 800.000 figure is a Sowjet propaganda myth. Because you can kill 8.000 to 13.000 a day, but not burn them in that time.
Why do you still operate with such exorbitant numbers, if even the Auschwitz administration has admitted, that figures of the past were totally exaggerated?
Stop using the Holocaust as propaganda. Show some respect for those jews who really died in that war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.114.202.121 ( talk) 16:48, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
The blog entry written by Berel Wein on www.jewishhistory.org website is hardly of any value that could be described as reliable historical source. It can rather be described as "story told to children by a grandfather at the fireplace during long winter evening". Not that it is false. It just is not a reliable source. It, itself, does not use any pointers to historical sources. I am sure that other sources recognized by Academia exist. Therefore, it should not be used as a source in Wikipedia articles.
Also, the sentence "[...] Hungary's Jews were deported to the gas chambers at Auschwitz [...]" makes no sense. One cannot be deported to a gas chamber. However, it could be successfully argued that be one can be "deported to Auschwitz". Although, even this not exactly precise enough for a serious Wikipedia article. One can be "deported to a country" but, not to a place (town or camp, in this case). Certainly, one cannot be "deported to the gas chamber". Therefore, in my opinion, this should be changed to something like "[...] Hungary's Jews were sent to the death camp at Auschwitz [...]". And if these Hungarian Jews were all sent to their death in gas chambers at or, shortly after, arrival and, at a rate of 12000 people a day, an appropriate source should be presented as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FA48:6EDA:1C10:1C86:B9A5:3549:276D ( talk) 15:52, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
" caught by the Hungarian underground police." "the other two were brought to Kasztner" who caught them and turned them to Kasztner? contradicted by other wiki entries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.174.191.14 ( talk) 15:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
If anyone is interested he was born on 14 APRIL 1906. Ancestry is not accepted for citations: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/31339708/person/26048691749/facts GrimRob ( talk) 23:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)