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Does anyone have an information about cleaning slides?
why has this section gone in its entirety? If it's not gone somewhere useful I shall revert. Bob aka Linuxlad 07:13, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Later, OK I've now reverted to last version by Linuxlad, to reinstate the B&W bit. This bit IS a 'pig's ear' I agree, but there should be some discussion of black and white film and B&W reversal - if not here, then on a link to another article. Linuxlad
I just agree : this black and white transparencies section is really important to the article. Ok, transparency is "easy" to understand : it is nothing more than a film sensible to different colors (magenta, cyan,yellow instead of red, green,blue). I have a question,though : is the film sensible to pure white (I mean, what do you get when you expose it, for instance, to sunlight) ? And how comes it is not sensible to darkness in a camera, since black is a combination of magenta+cyan+yellow ?
Thanks, King mike 21:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I have wikified this article slightly, but notice a strange introduction of the term 'slide' two thirds of the way through the article. This would be better up higher but my lack of subject knowledge prevents me really restructuring it. -- Stevage 16:26, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
The result of the debate was move — Mets501 ( talk) 01:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Transparency (photography) → Reversal film — Standard and neutral laboratory term also used by film manufacturers (Kodak), (Fuji); is inclusive of both stills and motion picture film (which both use the same E-6 process). Also avoids the need for disambiguation. Girolamo Savonarola 21:45, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
We (wife and I) don't understand why the last edit was deleted! We have been using dr5 for many years and this lab is THE only resource of it's kind in the traditional photo market. Agfaphoto is out of business and the labs left are running remaining scala with non-agfa chemistry. It is only fair to list this labs unique constitution to photography, if not list them as something unique. If you list the one lab you should allow the other. If not, delete all listed labs! Main has not hold on processing this film. There are several in Europe still running scala. Reversal film 19:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC) Rob
Regarding this edit; I treated this as linkspam (given the evidence, particularly as the entry for a Colorado-based company was posted via a Colorado-based IP.)
Following this discussion at my talk page, I decided to put the material back (minus the "improved" POV comment) and let others give their opinion as to whether it should remain. Fourohfour 19:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I disagree strongly to Hopsons action! dr5 is a completely unique photographic process. Hopson shows little photographic credibility. photographically speaking the work is at best Amateur. The link should be re-enstated. If this is the case 'NO' photographic lab should be listed, period!
On another note: I Have used the service called dr5 [http:www.dr5.com dr5chrome]. This is a Process, like Kodachrome or E6 or C41. An article should be created about this process. The results are not less than spectacular. No other process produces images like this one. The process has been published by several national photographic magazines and has world-wide recognition. I am not associated with this lab other than having my own film processed in this very unique process. I have no other goal other than providing correct information. Rob, Colorado
http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/archives/Jan05/labpro.tml http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009lRJ&tag= http://www.jandcphoto.com/ (industry link) http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32927 http://www.shutterbug.net/techniques/film_processing/0205dr5/ http://www.freestylephoto.biz/e_main.php (industry link) http://dr5.com/what.html http://photography.about.com/od/choosingfilm/a/newfilms_4.htm There are many more examples, rob.
Alas, due to declining volumes of B&W negative and positive films, I believe that the dr-5 reversal process should remain in this Reversal film article. Discpad 11:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC) Dan Schwartz, Cherry Hill, NJ. Expresso@Snip.Net
Am I mistaken, or isn't it a bit unusual that external links be accessed by clicking on text that is part of the body of the article? They already are filed under external links at the end . And the part about 'many say more pleasing results', sounds a bit too unsubstantiated to be left as it is. I'llcorrect these too, because it looks too much like we are promoting these labs, but I'll leave the links at the end.
Cleversnail
19:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
The camera in the picture appears to be a digital camera (Nikon D200) - is this really appropriate for an article on reversal film? mmj ( talk) 01:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
In writing a page about the illustrated song, I found that there was no good page describing the kind of slides that were used to make these early " music videos." Does anyone know anything about how glass slides for projection were made? Peter ( talk) 12:17, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Just in case you still need to know:
First, the lettering (and graphics, if any) was created on art board or paper with ink and/or paint, then photographed, producing a black-and-white negative. Usually, this negative was the same size as the final slide -- 3 1/4" x 3 1/4" in the UK, but 3 1/4" x 4" most everywhere else -- and was on glass, still widely used in larger-format cameras instead of film until circa 1920, even though flexible film had been introduced decades earlier (film was more expensive than glass during that era, notwithstanding what some Wikipedia articles say). As many positives as needed were made by exposing similar emulsion-coated thin glass plates through the negative and developing them in the same way. Frequently, in the case of slides made for public use, they were colored by individually hand-painting them with transparent colors. Unless made "on the cheap," a protective plain cover glass was placed against the image-bearing side to protect it, usually with a thin black paper "mat" between the two to provide a frame or special-shaped vignette around the image or simply to slightly separate the two. The sandwich was then bound up around the edges with gummed paper tape, also usually black, and the slide was complete.
If white-on-black lettering was wanted, as it usually was, the lettering could be done in black ink and negative images of this used for the finished slides.
If an actual photographic image was to be incorporated with lettering or art, most usually a good-sized paper print was made of the image, the lettering or ornamental art was applied to the print or created around it, then it was rephotographed to produce the negative. For pure photographic images, the final positive slides could simply be printed directly from the negative unless enlargement or reduction or some other modification was needed.
The slide was properly called a "lantern slide" because the projector was a "lantern", short for " Magic lantern" (they existed long before photography), but it was essentially the same as a simple 35mm slide projector of 1940s or 1950s vintage except for the larger format and, usually, the light source (carbon arcs, acetylene, or other such high-maintenance or highly-explosive-gas-fueled light sources were needed to provide enough light, as even high-wattage incandescent light bulbs were inadequate for projecting images of sufficient size). The "lantern" part of "lantern slide" slowly disappeared from use. It seems to have already nearly died by the time the smaller (2" x 2" after mounting) Kodachrome color slides and suitably scaled-down projectors became popular in mid-century.
Glass lantern slides of the same size and type used for illustrated songs still saw some use as late as the 1950s for advertising coming attractions during intermissions, etc., as attested by surviving late examples. The late ones that I have seen were on somewhat smaller glass plates mounted in cheap stapled-together cardboard frames and had no cover glasses, but were still (sloppily) hand-colored -- much cheaper than using real photographic color transparencies of that size, even in the 1950s. Glass could stand the heat of prolonged projection onto a large screen, a plastic film base could not.
Too much information?
AVarchaeologist ( talk) 01:09, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
=== Thank you, AV, that's perfect. I'll work it into the illustrated song and magic lantern pages some day, but just too busy right now. Peter ( talk) 14:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:04, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Until about 1995, color transparency was preferred for publication because of the films' higher contrast and resolution, It is well known that National Geographic used reversal film, and others too, but is this really the reason? Negative films have lower contrast (gamma) by design, but that is undone in the printing. I don't know of a big advantage in resolution compared to negative films. Also, Basic Photography doesn't sound like the most authoritative reference. Is there another reference? Gah4 ( talk) 14:59, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
This kind of reversal film is talked about more often nowadays due to restorations of classics, f.ex. La Dolce Vita, whose negative was so moldy and in such bad shape that some frames were unusable. Here's a good source. -- Espoo ( talk) 13:46, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
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The article gives More accurate color translation when digitizing. There is no need for color inversion processes. as pros for reversal film. The orange mask in negative film is specifically to give more accurate colors. The imperfections (absorptions where they shouldn't) of the dyes are cancelled by the absorptions of the mask. This isn't possible in slides for projection, for obvious reasons. Lots of compromises go into a color reversal film that don't go into a negative film. I suppose the colors from the film to scan might be more accurate, but still less accurate a representation of the original scene. Gah4 ( talk) 22:59, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
This history section is entirely inaccurate and irrelevant for this article. All that it's about is nothing but the invention of color photography and not in the slightest about slides or the reversal process. I've seen academic research papers that have been so mislead by this inaccurate Wikipedia article that they state that Kodachrome would've been the very first reversal or slide film in history! Which is just patently false; reversal b/w film was introduced into 16mm moving images no later than in 1923 by Kodak at the very latest, as can be seen already in the preview to this scholarly journal article, published by Indiana University Press in 2003, here: [1].
Furthermore, the German Wikipedia article on the history of photography mentions that a patent for a working color reversal photographic process, based on silver bromide collodion wet plates, was granted to Louis Arthur Ducos du Hauron as early as in 1868; although du Hauron produced practical proofs of his reversal process, this process was too difficult, expensive, and cumbersome to become a mass product. -- 2003:EF:1704:7205:843C:C673:6D28:ED99 ( talk) 02:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
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Does anyone have an information about cleaning slides?
why has this section gone in its entirety? If it's not gone somewhere useful I shall revert. Bob aka Linuxlad 07:13, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Later, OK I've now reverted to last version by Linuxlad, to reinstate the B&W bit. This bit IS a 'pig's ear' I agree, but there should be some discussion of black and white film and B&W reversal - if not here, then on a link to another article. Linuxlad
I just agree : this black and white transparencies section is really important to the article. Ok, transparency is "easy" to understand : it is nothing more than a film sensible to different colors (magenta, cyan,yellow instead of red, green,blue). I have a question,though : is the film sensible to pure white (I mean, what do you get when you expose it, for instance, to sunlight) ? And how comes it is not sensible to darkness in a camera, since black is a combination of magenta+cyan+yellow ?
Thanks, King mike 21:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I have wikified this article slightly, but notice a strange introduction of the term 'slide' two thirds of the way through the article. This would be better up higher but my lack of subject knowledge prevents me really restructuring it. -- Stevage 16:26, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
The result of the debate was move — Mets501 ( talk) 01:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Transparency (photography) → Reversal film — Standard and neutral laboratory term also used by film manufacturers (Kodak), (Fuji); is inclusive of both stills and motion picture film (which both use the same E-6 process). Also avoids the need for disambiguation. Girolamo Savonarola 21:45, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Add * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''' on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.
We (wife and I) don't understand why the last edit was deleted! We have been using dr5 for many years and this lab is THE only resource of it's kind in the traditional photo market. Agfaphoto is out of business and the labs left are running remaining scala with non-agfa chemistry. It is only fair to list this labs unique constitution to photography, if not list them as something unique. If you list the one lab you should allow the other. If not, delete all listed labs! Main has not hold on processing this film. There are several in Europe still running scala. Reversal film 19:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC) Rob
Regarding this edit; I treated this as linkspam (given the evidence, particularly as the entry for a Colorado-based company was posted via a Colorado-based IP.)
Following this discussion at my talk page, I decided to put the material back (minus the "improved" POV comment) and let others give their opinion as to whether it should remain. Fourohfour 19:54, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I disagree strongly to Hopsons action! dr5 is a completely unique photographic process. Hopson shows little photographic credibility. photographically speaking the work is at best Amateur. The link should be re-enstated. If this is the case 'NO' photographic lab should be listed, period!
On another note: I Have used the service called dr5 [http:www.dr5.com dr5chrome]. This is a Process, like Kodachrome or E6 or C41. An article should be created about this process. The results are not less than spectacular. No other process produces images like this one. The process has been published by several national photographic magazines and has world-wide recognition. I am not associated with this lab other than having my own film processed in this very unique process. I have no other goal other than providing correct information. Rob, Colorado
http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/archives/Jan05/labpro.tml http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009lRJ&tag= http://www.jandcphoto.com/ (industry link) http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32927 http://www.shutterbug.net/techniques/film_processing/0205dr5/ http://www.freestylephoto.biz/e_main.php (industry link) http://dr5.com/what.html http://photography.about.com/od/choosingfilm/a/newfilms_4.htm There are many more examples, rob.
Alas, due to declining volumes of B&W negative and positive films, I believe that the dr-5 reversal process should remain in this Reversal film article. Discpad 11:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC) Dan Schwartz, Cherry Hill, NJ. Expresso@Snip.Net
Am I mistaken, or isn't it a bit unusual that external links be accessed by clicking on text that is part of the body of the article? They already are filed under external links at the end . And the part about 'many say more pleasing results', sounds a bit too unsubstantiated to be left as it is. I'llcorrect these too, because it looks too much like we are promoting these labs, but I'll leave the links at the end.
Cleversnail
19:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
The camera in the picture appears to be a digital camera (Nikon D200) - is this really appropriate for an article on reversal film? mmj ( talk) 01:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
In writing a page about the illustrated song, I found that there was no good page describing the kind of slides that were used to make these early " music videos." Does anyone know anything about how glass slides for projection were made? Peter ( talk) 12:17, 21 December 2009 (UTC)
Just in case you still need to know:
First, the lettering (and graphics, if any) was created on art board or paper with ink and/or paint, then photographed, producing a black-and-white negative. Usually, this negative was the same size as the final slide -- 3 1/4" x 3 1/4" in the UK, but 3 1/4" x 4" most everywhere else -- and was on glass, still widely used in larger-format cameras instead of film until circa 1920, even though flexible film had been introduced decades earlier (film was more expensive than glass during that era, notwithstanding what some Wikipedia articles say). As many positives as needed were made by exposing similar emulsion-coated thin glass plates through the negative and developing them in the same way. Frequently, in the case of slides made for public use, they were colored by individually hand-painting them with transparent colors. Unless made "on the cheap," a protective plain cover glass was placed against the image-bearing side to protect it, usually with a thin black paper "mat" between the two to provide a frame or special-shaped vignette around the image or simply to slightly separate the two. The sandwich was then bound up around the edges with gummed paper tape, also usually black, and the slide was complete.
If white-on-black lettering was wanted, as it usually was, the lettering could be done in black ink and negative images of this used for the finished slides.
If an actual photographic image was to be incorporated with lettering or art, most usually a good-sized paper print was made of the image, the lettering or ornamental art was applied to the print or created around it, then it was rephotographed to produce the negative. For pure photographic images, the final positive slides could simply be printed directly from the negative unless enlargement or reduction or some other modification was needed.
The slide was properly called a "lantern slide" because the projector was a "lantern", short for " Magic lantern" (they existed long before photography), but it was essentially the same as a simple 35mm slide projector of 1940s or 1950s vintage except for the larger format and, usually, the light source (carbon arcs, acetylene, or other such high-maintenance or highly-explosive-gas-fueled light sources were needed to provide enough light, as even high-wattage incandescent light bulbs were inadequate for projecting images of sufficient size). The "lantern" part of "lantern slide" slowly disappeared from use. It seems to have already nearly died by the time the smaller (2" x 2" after mounting) Kodachrome color slides and suitably scaled-down projectors became popular in mid-century.
Glass lantern slides of the same size and type used for illustrated songs still saw some use as late as the 1950s for advertising coming attractions during intermissions, etc., as attested by surviving late examples. The late ones that I have seen were on somewhat smaller glass plates mounted in cheap stapled-together cardboard frames and had no cover glasses, but were still (sloppily) hand-colored -- much cheaper than using real photographic color transparencies of that size, even in the 1950s. Glass could stand the heat of prolonged projection onto a large screen, a plastic film base could not.
Too much information?
AVarchaeologist ( talk) 01:09, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
=== Thank you, AV, that's perfect. I'll work it into the illustrated song and magic lantern pages some day, but just too busy right now. Peter ( talk) 14:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:04, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Until about 1995, color transparency was preferred for publication because of the films' higher contrast and resolution, It is well known that National Geographic used reversal film, and others too, but is this really the reason? Negative films have lower contrast (gamma) by design, but that is undone in the printing. I don't know of a big advantage in resolution compared to negative films. Also, Basic Photography doesn't sound like the most authoritative reference. Is there another reference? Gah4 ( talk) 14:59, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
This kind of reversal film is talked about more often nowadays due to restorations of classics, f.ex. La Dolce Vita, whose negative was so moldy and in such bad shape that some frames were unusable. Here's a good source. -- Espoo ( talk) 13:46, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Reversal film. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:17, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
The article gives More accurate color translation when digitizing. There is no need for color inversion processes. as pros for reversal film. The orange mask in negative film is specifically to give more accurate colors. The imperfections (absorptions where they shouldn't) of the dyes are cancelled by the absorptions of the mask. This isn't possible in slides for projection, for obvious reasons. Lots of compromises go into a color reversal film that don't go into a negative film. I suppose the colors from the film to scan might be more accurate, but still less accurate a representation of the original scene. Gah4 ( talk) 22:59, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
This history section is entirely inaccurate and irrelevant for this article. All that it's about is nothing but the invention of color photography and not in the slightest about slides or the reversal process. I've seen academic research papers that have been so mislead by this inaccurate Wikipedia article that they state that Kodachrome would've been the very first reversal or slide film in history! Which is just patently false; reversal b/w film was introduced into 16mm moving images no later than in 1923 by Kodak at the very latest, as can be seen already in the preview to this scholarly journal article, published by Indiana University Press in 2003, here: [1].
Furthermore, the German Wikipedia article on the history of photography mentions that a patent for a working color reversal photographic process, based on silver bromide collodion wet plates, was granted to Louis Arthur Ducos du Hauron as early as in 1868; although du Hauron produced practical proofs of his reversal process, this process was too difficult, expensive, and cumbersome to become a mass product. -- 2003:EF:1704:7205:843C:C673:6D28:ED99 ( talk) 02:48, 12 November 2021 (UTC)